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FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
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This thread is getting unbearable guys, stop plz
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3030 Posts
On October 06 2012 02:53 Shikyo wrote:Of course because no one goes completely naked radiance O_O Also if we assume that by 10min both teams have lost 1 tower which is relatively common, it's very doable. Note the only purpose of this was to show that radi at 13min is very doable, not that 10:30 should be some standard achievable in every game Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 02:54 BurningSera wrote:
It depends on the race tbh :3 10apm can do 2rax all the way to high master np! It was Zerg and my avg apm 230 or so, which translated to 160-180 in SC2, every single game macro games, I hated cheesing. Really why would you think I ever cheesed if I stubbornly only play hardcarries in dota?
So while playing Zerg at an average of 230 apm at masters level, you can't micro 2 rightclick heroes (one of which requires minimal control and maybe the occasional silence usage). So if positions matter that much in your games, why are you losing? I'm sure it's due to something else.
On October 06 2012 03:00 Kupon3ss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 02:57 TheWarbler wrote:
You can get Relic in 9minutes and Radiance on 11 on Alch. Probably earlier. This is if your not missing any last hits and maxing goblins greed first ofc. u actually get it much faster if u max acid and have supports stack your jungle Also, shikyo, I don't think having less than 40% winrate on PL at a very low skill bracket allows you to talk about what to get on the hero in any meaningful way
I heard commenting on what is legit, good, or bad about a hero at < 50% win rate at low MMR is the true definition of a pro. Oh and lets add while playing on hard carries almost always or that low level pubs don't bother to get truesight or enough of it. If he were playing hard support or some early game hero it'd be a different story.
"Are you GM on the Korean server ? No ? STFU noob you have no rights to talk about balance."
Winrate doesn't mean anything.
Winrates mean something to an extent when you are solo queueing in very low mmr.
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On October 06 2012 03:00 Kupon3ss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 02:57 TheWarbler wrote:
You can get Relic in 9minutes and Radiance on 11 on Alch. Probably earlier. This is if your not missing any last hits and maxing goblins greed first ofc. u actually get it much faster if u max acid and have supports stack your jungle Also, shikyo, I don't think having less than 40% winrate on PL at a very low skill bracket allows you to talk about what to get on the hero in any meaningful way
Yeah, I really need to figure out a way to stop losing with PL, it makes no sense ><
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On October 06 2012 03:05 BlitzerSC wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 03:00 Shikyo wrote:On October 06 2012 02:58 BlitzerSC wrote:On October 06 2012 02:34 Shikyo wrote:On October 06 2012 02:13 PassiveAce wrote:On October 06 2012 02:08 Avs wrote:On October 06 2012 01:21 Shikyo wrote:On October 06 2012 01:19 Yoshi- wrote:
Why would you go soul ring when you are farming? I wouldn't, I'd probably rush straight radiance with nothing for a 13min radiance etc. However if you do need to lane like in pubs, tranquil + soul ring lets you win it against just about anything I think Can you explain what you do exactly to get a 13m radiance with PL? you get it completely naked + get lucky and have freefarm from level 1 somehow. Completely naked it's 10:30. You can afford tranquils and stout shield at the very least. On October 06 2012 02:15 Qbek wrote:On October 06 2012 02:15 Kupon3ss wrote:
As shikyo's explained, you bitch at your team to have 2 guys babysit you for 13 minutes while u get 80% of the last hits in a freefarm lane And like 3 tower last hits How common is it to get 0 tower kills by 13min, anyway? By the way, last game our 25-5 drow disconnected near the end of the game -.- Then I tried to control her while controlling my PL but every single teamfight I fail controlled and got vacuumed into DS ult and then the illusions killed us sigh ... I thought I did pretty okay controlling 2 heroes at the start, got a triplekill with the drow but ... I guess I just am not good enough to control 2 heroes simultaneously precisely enough. Kind of disappointing... We could have won You get a 10 min radiance in a pub game ? You must be the best carry in the universe... /sarcasm No I can't do that. I wish I could though, games with my relatively high-skilled HoN buddies (1800-2000MMR) always were so nice because I could just farm and then we would destroy them, in pubs my team generally does a better job than the enemies preventing my farming so I'm kind of wondering how I'm supposed to properly practice this -.- But still, I can't believe that you get a 10/13 min radiance. It's pro level farm. Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 03:00 Kupon3ss wrote:On October 06 2012 02:57 TheWarbler wrote:
You can get Relic in 9minutes and Radiance on 11 on Alch. Probably earlier. This is if your not missing any last hits and maxing goblins greed first ofc. u actually get it much faster if u max acid and have supports stack your jungle Also, shikyo, I don't think having less than 40% winrate on PL at a very low skill bracket allows you to talk about what to get on the hero in any meaningful way "Are you GM on the Korean server ? No ? STFU noob you have no rights to talk about balance."Winrate doesn't mean anything.
The point is much closer to
"Are you PLAT on NA ? No ? Please don't talk with authority about builds and timings and pretend to have pro-level insight"
Fixed that for you, try reading the guidelines to Strategy forums once in a while, they actually do ban people for stuff like that over at SC2Strats
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On October 06 2012 02:58 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 02:53 Shikyo wrote:Of course because no one goes completely naked radiance O_O Also if we assume that by 10min both teams have lost 1 tower which is relatively common, it's very doable. Note the only purpose of this was to show that radi at 13min is very doable, not that 10:30 should be some standard achievable in every game On October 06 2012 02:54 BurningSera wrote:
It depends on the race tbh :3 10apm can do 2rax all the way to high master np! It was Zerg and my avg apm 230 or so, which translated to 160-180 in SC2, every single game macro games, I hated cheesing. Really why would you think I ever cheesed if I stubbornly only play hardcarries in dota? because playing hard carries in dota requires the least thinking of any of the roles.
It certainly requires the least thinking but my god is it the most stressful to me. I recently started playing with 4/5 friends, trying to build a fun competitive team (which seems to be impossible, I need more competent dota friends ~_~) and have been playing the Hard Carry for them. I generally played solo suicide or 4/5 support. I don't mind the role but it's very intense to me in a way the other roles aren't. I cringe at every last hit missed and become obsessed with eeking out every bit of gold. I stress out so much more playing the 1 than I ever did as suicide or 4/5.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Unless you are Burning, in which case you don't die, you get every lasthit and you still showup at every fight somehow.
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On October 06 2012 03:00 Kupon3ss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 02:57 TheWarbler wrote:
You can get Relic in 9minutes and Radiance on 11 on Alch. Probably earlier. This is if your not missing any last hits and maxing goblins greed first ofc. u actually get it much faster if u max acid and have supports stack your jungle Also, shikyo, I don't think having less than 40% winrate on PL at a very low skill bracket allows you to talk about what to get on the hero in any meaningful way
completely unrelated, you can talk about any hero regardless about how good you are as long as you present evidence
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On October 06 2012 03:08 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 03:00 Kupon3ss wrote:On October 06 2012 02:57 TheWarbler wrote:
You can get Relic in 9minutes and Radiance on 11 on Alch. Probably earlier. This is if your not missing any last hits and maxing goblins greed first ofc. u actually get it much faster if u max acid and have supports stack your jungle Also, shikyo, I don't think having less than 40% winrate on PL at a very low skill bracket allows you to talk about what to get on the hero in any meaningful way Yeah, I really need to figure out a way to stop losing with PL, it makes no sense ><
Maybe if u tried to listen to advice instead of aggressively pushing the builds that makes you continuously lose.
On October 06 2012 03:12 [17]Purple wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 03:00 Kupon3ss wrote:On October 06 2012 02:57 TheWarbler wrote:
You can get Relic in 9minutes and Radiance on 11 on Alch. Probably earlier. This is if your not missing any last hits and maxing goblins greed first ofc. u actually get it much faster if u max acid and have supports stack your jungle Also, shikyo, I don't think having less than 40% winrate on PL at a very low skill bracket allows you to talk about what to get on the hero in any meaningful way completely unrelated, you can talk about any hero regardless about how good you are as long as you present evidence
not when the "evidence" is "it works <40% of the times for me when i pub"
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Its not like PL is known for stomping pubs. If your going to build radiance on him then you are choosing to play a late game oriented build, where you use Radiance to farm like a mofo for another 20-25 minutes, and in the meantime you are all but useless. But that strategy means you have to have a team that wont lose the game during that interval, which is why PL isnt a pubstomper.
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On October 06 2012 03:08 Kupon3ss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 03:05 BlitzerSC wrote:On October 06 2012 03:00 Shikyo wrote:On October 06 2012 02:58 BlitzerSC wrote:On October 06 2012 02:34 Shikyo wrote:On October 06 2012 02:13 PassiveAce wrote:On October 06 2012 02:08 Avs wrote:On October 06 2012 01:21 Shikyo wrote:On October 06 2012 01:19 Yoshi- wrote:
Why would you go soul ring when you are farming? I wouldn't, I'd probably rush straight radiance with nothing for a 13min radiance etc. However if you do need to lane like in pubs, tranquil + soul ring lets you win it against just about anything I think Can you explain what you do exactly to get a 13m radiance with PL? you get it completely naked + get lucky and have freefarm from level 1 somehow. Completely naked it's 10:30. You can afford tranquils and stout shield at the very least. On October 06 2012 02:15 Qbek wrote:On October 06 2012 02:15 Kupon3ss wrote:
As shikyo's explained, you bitch at your team to have 2 guys babysit you for 13 minutes while u get 80% of the last hits in a freefarm lane And like 3 tower last hits How common is it to get 0 tower kills by 13min, anyway? By the way, last game our 25-5 drow disconnected near the end of the game -.- Then I tried to control her while controlling my PL but every single teamfight I fail controlled and got vacuumed into DS ult and then the illusions killed us sigh ... I thought I did pretty okay controlling 2 heroes at the start, got a triplekill with the drow but ... I guess I just am not good enough to control 2 heroes simultaneously precisely enough. Kind of disappointing... We could have won You get a 10 min radiance in a pub game ? You must be the best carry in the universe... /sarcasm No I can't do that. I wish I could though, games with my relatively high-skilled HoN buddies (1800-2000MMR) always were so nice because I could just farm and then we would destroy them, in pubs my team generally does a better job than the enemies preventing my farming so I'm kind of wondering how I'm supposed to properly practice this -.- But still, I can't believe that you get a 10/13 min radiance. It's pro level farm. On October 06 2012 03:00 Kupon3ss wrote:On October 06 2012 02:57 TheWarbler wrote:
You can get Relic in 9minutes and Radiance on 11 on Alch. Probably earlier. This is if your not missing any last hits and maxing goblins greed first ofc. u actually get it much faster if u max acid and have supports stack your jungle Also, shikyo, I don't think having less than 40% winrate on PL at a very low skill bracket allows you to talk about what to get on the hero in any meaningful way "Are you GM on the Korean server ? No ? STFU noob you have no rights to talk about balance."Winrate doesn't mean anything. The point is much closer to "Are you PLAT on NA ? No ? Please don't talk with authority about builds and timings and pretend to have pro-level insight"Fixed that for you, try reading the guidelines to Strategy forums once in a while, they actually do ban people for stuff like that over at SC2Strats
So because person X has less than 50% winrate with, let's say, Antimage, then he can't say that battlefury is a good item on him ?
Really ?
Really ?
What a dumb way of thinking.
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Hold up guys. I don't really follow the nuances of this thread...but why is Shikyo/Paikyo mentioned in every post lol?
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On October 06 2012 03:12 Kupon3ss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 03:08 Shikyo wrote:On October 06 2012 03:00 Kupon3ss wrote:On October 06 2012 02:57 TheWarbler wrote:
You can get Relic in 9minutes and Radiance on 11 on Alch. Probably earlier. This is if your not missing any last hits and maxing goblins greed first ofc. u actually get it much faster if u max acid and have supports stack your jungle Also, shikyo, I don't think having less than 40% winrate on PL at a very low skill bracket allows you to talk about what to get on the hero in any meaningful way Yeah, I really need to figure out a way to stop losing with PL, it makes no sense >< Maybe if u tried to listen to advice instead of aggressively pushing the builds that makes you continuously lose.
Did you watch my match history? o_O I've been going tranquil stick soul -> drums -> diffusal past 4 games(1-3 in them)
Feel free to recommend a better one
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On October 06 2012 03:14 BlitzerSC wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 03:08 Kupon3ss wrote:On October 06 2012 03:05 BlitzerSC wrote:On October 06 2012 03:00 Shikyo wrote:On October 06 2012 02:58 BlitzerSC wrote:On October 06 2012 02:34 Shikyo wrote:On October 06 2012 02:13 PassiveAce wrote:On October 06 2012 02:08 Avs wrote:On October 06 2012 01:21 Shikyo wrote:On October 06 2012 01:19 Yoshi- wrote:
Why would you go soul ring when you are farming? I wouldn't, I'd probably rush straight radiance with nothing for a 13min radiance etc. However if you do need to lane like in pubs, tranquil + soul ring lets you win it against just about anything I think Can you explain what you do exactly to get a 13m radiance with PL? you get it completely naked + get lucky and have freefarm from level 1 somehow. Completely naked it's 10:30. You can afford tranquils and stout shield at the very least. On October 06 2012 02:15 Qbek wrote:On October 06 2012 02:15 Kupon3ss wrote:
As shikyo's explained, you bitch at your team to have 2 guys babysit you for 13 minutes while u get 80% of the last hits in a freefarm lane And like 3 tower last hits How common is it to get 0 tower kills by 13min, anyway? By the way, last game our 25-5 drow disconnected near the end of the game -.- Then I tried to control her while controlling my PL but every single teamfight I fail controlled and got vacuumed into DS ult and then the illusions killed us sigh ... I thought I did pretty okay controlling 2 heroes at the start, got a triplekill with the drow but ... I guess I just am not good enough to control 2 heroes simultaneously precisely enough. Kind of disappointing... We could have won You get a 10 min radiance in a pub game ? You must be the best carry in the universe... /sarcasm No I can't do that. I wish I could though, games with my relatively high-skilled HoN buddies (1800-2000MMR) always were so nice because I could just farm and then we would destroy them, in pubs my team generally does a better job than the enemies preventing my farming so I'm kind of wondering how I'm supposed to properly practice this -.- But still, I can't believe that you get a 10/13 min radiance. It's pro level farm. On October 06 2012 03:00 Kupon3ss wrote:On October 06 2012 02:57 TheWarbler wrote:
You can get Relic in 9minutes and Radiance on 11 on Alch. Probably earlier. This is if your not missing any last hits and maxing goblins greed first ofc. u actually get it much faster if u max acid and have supports stack your jungle Also, shikyo, I don't think having less than 40% winrate on PL at a very low skill bracket allows you to talk about what to get on the hero in any meaningful way "Are you GM on the Korean server ? No ? STFU noob you have no rights to talk about balance."Winrate doesn't mean anything. The point is much closer to "Are you PLAT on NA ? No ? Please don't talk with authority about builds and timings and pretend to have pro-level insight"Fixed that for you, try reading the guidelines to Strategy forums once in a while, they actually do ban people for stuff like that over at SC2Strats So because person X has less than 50% winrate with, let's say, Antimage, then he can't say that battlefury is a good item on him ? Really ? Really ? What a dumb way of thinking.
When a person X has less than 50% winrate with Antimage at low skill brackets, he can't say that he is able to consistently get a 10 minute bfury and offer advice on how to do that build, no
On October 06 2012 03:15 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 03:12 Kupon3ss wrote:On October 06 2012 03:08 Shikyo wrote:On October 06 2012 03:00 Kupon3ss wrote:On October 06 2012 02:57 TheWarbler wrote:
You can get Relic in 9minutes and Radiance on 11 on Alch. Probably earlier. This is if your not missing any last hits and maxing goblins greed first ofc. u actually get it much faster if u max acid and have supports stack your jungle Also, shikyo, I don't think having less than 40% winrate on PL at a very low skill bracket allows you to talk about what to get on the hero in any meaningful way Yeah, I really need to figure out a way to stop losing with PL, it makes no sense >< Maybe if u tried to listen to advice instead of aggressively pushing the builds that makes you continuously lose. Did you watch my match history? o_O I've been going tranquil stick soul -> drums -> diffusal past 4 games(1-3 in them) Feel free to recommend a better one
try reading some of the posts of item builds that have been suggested over the last 3 pages
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On October 06 2012 03:14 Avs wrote:
Hold up guys. I don't really follow the nuances of this thread...but why is Shikyo/Paikyo mentioned in every post lol?
Because when he came here a few weeks ago he said some things that were enormously stupid, so ever since then every time he says anything like 5 people have to jump on him.
same thing with Font and ParallelUniverse.
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Shikyo catches too much hate. He has wacky ideas sometimes but people take his posts way too seriously and muck up the thread worse than Shikyo does most of the time. Plus he's super helpful in the tech support thread! 
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On October 06 2012 03:16 Kupon3ss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 03:14 BlitzerSC wrote:On October 06 2012 03:08 Kupon3ss wrote:On October 06 2012 03:05 BlitzerSC wrote:On October 06 2012 03:00 Shikyo wrote:On October 06 2012 02:58 BlitzerSC wrote:On October 06 2012 02:34 Shikyo wrote:On October 06 2012 02:13 PassiveAce wrote:On October 06 2012 02:08 Avs wrote:On October 06 2012 01:21 Shikyo wrote:
[quote]
I wouldn't, I'd probably rush straight radiance with nothing for a 13min radiance etc.
However if you do need to lane like in pubs, tranquil + soul ring lets you win it against just about anything I think Can you explain what you do exactly to get a 13m radiance with PL? you get it completely naked + get lucky and have freefarm from level 1 somehow. Completely naked it's 10:30. You can afford tranquils and stout shield at the very least. On October 06 2012 02:15 Qbek wrote:On October 06 2012 02:15 Kupon3ss wrote:
As shikyo's explained, you bitch at your team to have 2 guys babysit you for 13 minutes while u get 80% of the last hits in a freefarm lane And like 3 tower last hits How common is it to get 0 tower kills by 13min, anyway? By the way, last game our 25-5 drow disconnected near the end of the game -.- Then I tried to control her while controlling my PL but every single teamfight I fail controlled and got vacuumed into DS ult and then the illusions killed us sigh ... I thought I did pretty okay controlling 2 heroes at the start, got a triplekill with the drow but ... I guess I just am not good enough to control 2 heroes simultaneously precisely enough. Kind of disappointing... We could have won You get a 10 min radiance in a pub game ? You must be the best carry in the universe... /sarcasm No I can't do that. I wish I could though, games with my relatively high-skilled HoN buddies (1800-2000MMR) always were so nice because I could just farm and then we would destroy them, in pubs my team generally does a better job than the enemies preventing my farming so I'm kind of wondering how I'm supposed to properly practice this -.- But still, I can't believe that you get a 10/13 min radiance. It's pro level farm. On October 06 2012 03:00 Kupon3ss wrote:On October 06 2012 02:57 TheWarbler wrote:
You can get Relic in 9minutes and Radiance on 11 on Alch. Probably earlier. This is if your not missing any last hits and maxing goblins greed first ofc. u actually get it much faster if u max acid and have supports stack your jungle Also, shikyo, I don't think having less than 40% winrate on PL at a very low skill bracket allows you to talk about what to get on the hero in any meaningful way "Are you GM on the Korean server ? No ? STFU noob you have no rights to talk about balance."Winrate doesn't mean anything. The point is much closer to "Are you PLAT on NA ? No ? Please don't talk with authority about builds and timings and pretend to have pro-level insight"Fixed that for you, try reading the guidelines to Strategy forums once in a while, they actually do ban people for stuff like that over at SC2Strats So because person X has less than 50% winrate with, let's say, Antimage, then he can't say that battlefury is a good item on him ? Really ? Really ? What a dumb way of thinking. When a person X has less than 50% winrate with Antimage at low skill brackets, he can't say that he is able to consistently get a 10 minute bfury and offer advice on how to do that build, no
Maybe he can't get a 10 min bfury because he plays with a guy who always autoattack and pushes the lane making farming a really hard thing to do thus delaying all his item progression ? Never thought about that ?
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I did, thats one of the reasons, along with the fact that he's in a skill bracket with said players to begin with, is why I assumed that he can't
It's as though none of you have read any of the standards for strategy suggestions here at TL
From the SC2 Forums strategy section
Rule No 1: Everything you say must be supported by evidence.
The game is evolving all the time and no one has a definite answer for every strategy related question for SC2. Thus, it is extremely important that you back up everything with sound reasoning, a replay, or a VOD, anything that supports the point you are making. Your word is not enough. A one-line response to a post without anything to support it is not acceptable. In the same token, simply posting stories of what you do without any analysis or explanation in response to another post is not acceptable.
Above is why many posters have issue with Shikyo
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On October 06 2012 03:19 crms wrote:Shikyo catches too much hate. He has wacky all the time ideas sometimes but people take his posts way too seriously and muck up the thread worse than Shikyo does most of the time. Plus he's super helpful in the tech support thread!
Thats why he catches flack for it.
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On October 06 2012 03:21 Kupon3ss wrote:
I did, thats why I assumed that he can't
It's as though none of you have read any of the standards for strategy suggestions here at TL
From the SC2 Forums strategy section
Rule No 1: Everything you say must be supported by evidence.
The game is evolving all the time and no one has a definite answer for every strategy related question for SC2. Thus, it is extremely important that you back up everything with sound reasoning, a replay, or a VOD, anything that supports the point you are making. Your word is not enough. A one-line response to a post without anything to support it is not acceptable. In the same token, simply posting stories of what you do without any analysis or explanation in response to another post is not acceptable.
Do note that the evidence doesn't have to be my own games. If I say that AM can get naked battle fury by 11min consistantly and then show pajkatt doing that it's fine.
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EPT
