On October 04 2012 00:17 bokeevboke wrote: why dota 2 has a delayed response time? I mean when you command a unit, it moves only after 0.5 sec, which is very irritating. I did some research, people say it was inherited from wc3 engine. But isn't it bad for newcomers. I mean there aren't any "new people" in dota 2, basically old dota players transfered and thats it. I think its one of the reasons why dota 2 isn't so popular.
Turnrate.
I know about turnrate. I checked it. Delay exists even when you move forward.
Also, what I hate about dota 2 is that when you last hit, you have to consider the swing before hit which is usually 0.33 sec. Thats why most new players cant last hit properly. I understand that these are all important aspects of "Dota" and valve tries to stay with it. But c'mon, its not appealing for casual players. There is no way game will be popular if such difficult (frustrating) mechanics exist in it. Why are they scared of improving game mechanics? I think they should focus more on strategic/teamwork aspects of the game.
Because dota players enjoy those mechanics. The minute difference between heroes even in attack/cast animations is vital in game balance. For example, in the next patch coming (6.75), one of the most popular heroes called Leshrac has one of his skills changed from being an instant cast to requiring a cast time of ?0.25 seconds. That doesn't seem like much to a newbie to the scene but for many people it is a considerable nerf.
What's wrong if new players can't last hit properly? It takes a while for them to learn how to last hit, that's fine with me. Not every new player in the world wants to be spoonfed the easiest game in the world.
'There is no way game will be popular if such difficult (frustrating) mechanics exist in it.' It is still in beta yet The International had 500,000 concurrent viewers. It is already popular.
I said dota 2 is not popular because many of my online mates tried it and left it coz it was too complex (learning curve). I'm definitely sure they would like it if they learned it more. But the fact that first impression made them stay away tells me many people will react similarly.
Also, I don't think its wise to make delays similar to old dota, for a very simple reason: Old dota was played mostly on Lan (or within same city) and its not that hard to time your last hits, but dota 2 is online and any tiny spike can fuckup everything.
Dota was played online.... just stop trying to flamebait.
WTF?! I am not flambaiting and I am not trolling. Stop it please or gtfo.
Why should he stop? It's pretty apparent that you're grasping at straws here.
LoL, what exacltly qualifies me as a flamebaiter? Care to explain?
You must be willing to enter the gosugamer contest in the tl team.
On October 04 2012 00:17 bokeevboke wrote: why dota 2 has a delayed response time? I mean when you command a unit, it moves only after 0.5 sec, which is very irritating. I did some research, people say it was inherited from wc3 engine. But isn't it bad for newcomers. I mean there aren't any "new people" in dota 2, basically old dota players transfered and thats it. I think its one of the reasons why dota 2 isn't so popular.
Turnrate.
I know about turnrate. I checked it. Delay exists even when you move forward.
Also, what I hate about dota 2 is that when you last hit, you have to consider the swing before hit which is usually 0.33 sec. Thats why most new players cant last hit properly. I understand that these are all important aspects of "Dota" and valve tries to stay with it. But c'mon, its not appealing for casual players. There is no way game will be popular if such difficult (frustrating) mechanics exist in it. Why are they scared of improving game mechanics? I think they should focus more on strategic/teamwork aspects of the game.
Because dota players enjoy those mechanics. The minute difference between heroes even in attack/cast animations is vital in game balance. For example, in the next patch coming (6.75), one of the most popular heroes called Leshrac has one of his skills changed from being an instant cast to requiring a cast time of ?0.25 seconds. That doesn't seem like much to a newbie to the scene but for many people it is a considerable nerf.
What's wrong if new players can't last hit properly? It takes a while for them to learn how to last hit, that's fine with me. Not every new player in the world wants to be spoonfed the easiest game in the world.
'There is no way game will be popular if such difficult (frustrating) mechanics exist in it.' It is still in beta yet The International had 500,000 concurrent viewers. It is already popular.
I said dota 2 is not popular because many of my online mates tried it and left it coz it was too complex (learning curve). I'm definitely sure they would like it if they learned it more. But the fact that first impression made them stay away tells me many people will react similarly.
Also, I don't think its wise to make delays similar to old dota, for a very simple reason: Old dota was played mostly on Lan (or within same city) and its not that hard to time your last hits, but dota 2 is online and any tiny spike can fuckup everything.
Dota was played online.... just stop trying to flamebait.
WTF?! I am not flambaiting and I am not trolling. Stop it please or gtfo.
Why should he stop? It's pretty apparent that you're grasping at straws here.
LoL, what exacltly qualifies me as a flamebaiter? Care to explain?
Its because you are calling incredibly important aspects of balance into question without good reason. You are also making stupid claims like "dota isnt popular because my friends tried it and didnt like it"
On October 04 2012 00:17 bokeevboke wrote: why dota 2 has a delayed response time? I mean when you command a unit, it moves only after 0.5 sec, which is very irritating. I did some research, people say it was inherited from wc3 engine. But isn't it bad for newcomers. I mean there aren't any "new people" in dota 2, basically old dota players transfered and thats it. I think its one of the reasons why dota 2 isn't so popular.
Turnrate.
I know about turnrate. I checked it. Delay exists even when you move forward.
Also, what I hate about dota 2 is that when you last hit, you have to consider the swing before hit which is usually 0.33 sec. Thats why most new players cant last hit properly. I understand that these are all important aspects of "Dota" and valve tries to stay with it. But c'mon, its not appealing for casual players. There is no way game will be popular if such difficult (frustrating) mechanics exist in it. Why are they scared of improving game mechanics? I think they should focus more on strategic/teamwork aspects of the game.
Because dota players enjoy those mechanics. The minute difference between heroes even in attack/cast animations is vital in game balance. For example, in the next patch coming (6.75), one of the most popular heroes called Leshrac has one of his skills changed from being an instant cast to requiring a cast time of ?0.25 seconds. That doesn't seem like much to a newbie to the scene but for many people it is a considerable nerf.
What's wrong if new players can't last hit properly? It takes a while for them to learn how to last hit, that's fine with me. Not every new player in the world wants to be spoonfed the easiest game in the world.
'There is no way game will be popular if such difficult (frustrating) mechanics exist in it.' It is still in beta yet The International had 500,000 concurrent viewers. It is already popular.
I said dota 2 is not popular because many of my online mates tried it and left it coz it was too complex (learning curve). I'm definitely sure they would like it if they learned it more. But the fact that first impression made them stay away tells me many people will react similarly.
Also, I don't think its wise to make delays similar to old dota, for a very simple reason: Old dota was played mostly on Lan (or within same city) and its not that hard to time your last hits, but dota 2 is online and any tiny spike can fuckup everything.
Dota was played online.... just stop trying to flamebait.
WTF?! I am not flambaiting and I am not trolling. Stop it please or gtfo.
Why should he stop? It's pretty apparent that you're grasping at straws here.
LoL, what exacltly qualifies me as a flamebaiter? Care to explain?
You have a wrong idea about how the game should be and want us to agree with you. Everyone tells you that you're wrong and you continue to spout bullshit that isn't true and never will be. The animations are set up the way they are for a reason and it isn't because DotA was a LAN game in wc3. There isn't a discussion to be had. You're simply wrong.
On October 04 2012 00:56 Qbek wrote: Also valve are trying to get a tutorial, mission impossible imo. The game takes around 100 hours of hard work to get "not terribly bad" but in exchange even after playing it for 10k hours there's still place to improve in visible ways
I don't agree. A tutorial would be most helpful. Sure it won't make people pros, but I bet there are a lot of newbies that don't know about denies of creeps and towers. A tutorial could help them learn things like this.
On October 04 2012 00:17 bokeevboke wrote: why dota 2 has a delayed response time? I mean when you command a unit, it moves only after 0.5 sec, which is very irritating. I did some research, people say it was inherited from wc3 engine. But isn't it bad for newcomers. I mean there aren't any "new people" in dota 2, basically old dota players transfered and thats it. I think its one of the reasons why dota 2 isn't so popular.
Turnrate.
I know about turnrate. I checked it. Delay exists even when you move forward.
Also, what I hate about dota 2 is that when you last hit, you have to consider the swing before hit which is usually 0.33 sec. Thats why most new players cant last hit properly. I understand that these are all important aspects of "Dota" and valve tries to stay with it. But c'mon, its not appealing for casual players. There is no way game will be popular if such difficult (frustrating) mechanics exist in it. Why are they scared of improving game mechanics? I think they should focus more on strategic/teamwork aspects of the game.
Because dota players enjoy those mechanics. The minute difference between heroes even in attack/cast animations is vital in game balance. For example, in the next patch coming (6.75), one of the most popular heroes called Leshrac has one of his skills changed from being an instant cast to requiring a cast time of ?0.25 seconds. That doesn't seem like much to a newbie to the scene but for many people it is a considerable nerf.
What's wrong if new players can't last hit properly? It takes a while for them to learn how to last hit, that's fine with me. Not every new player in the world wants to be spoonfed the easiest game in the world.
'There is no way game will be popular if such difficult (frustrating) mechanics exist in it.' It is still in beta yet The International had 500,000 concurrent viewers. It is already popular.
I said dota 2 is not popular because many of my online mates tried it and left it coz it was too complex (learning curve). I'm definitely sure they would like it if they learned it more. But the fact that first impression made them stay away tells me many people will react similarly.
Also, I don't think its wise to make delays similar to old dota, for a very simple reason: Old dota was played mostly on Lan (or within same city) and its not that hard to time your last hits, but dota 2 is online and any tiny spike can fuckup everything.
Dota was played online.... just stop trying to flamebait.
WTF?! I am not flambaiting and I am not trolling. Stop it please or gtfo.
Why should he stop? It's pretty apparent that you're grasping at straws here.
LoL, what exacltly qualifies me as a flamebaiter? Care to explain?
Why I thought Dota 2 is not popular. Look at viewcount of games here twitch.tv. Its my last post in this thread. bye.
The viewcount on Twitch.tv just says that LoL players prefer to watch streams instead of playing.
On October 04 2012 01:04 Fwizzz wrote: Just leave him guys and discuss another topic.
Yes, new topic. Sniper best carry after his buffs? Yay or nay
Nay. Because I dislike Sniper. >:O I'm actually more looking forward to how Treant Protector's new ability will work out. Watching Puppey and Syndaren talk about it a little yesterday made me curious to see just how strong it can really be.
I actually think having the delay makes the game easier to play. Because of it I am able to cancel attacks/spells that I would normally not want to cast. I don't think that's too hard for new players to understand. When I tried league of legends for the first time, it was frustrating that I could not stop my spells once I had activated them. It adds depth.
On October 04 2012 00:56 Qbek wrote: Also valve are trying to get a tutorial, mission impossible imo. The game takes around 100 hours of hard work to get "not terribly bad" but in exchange even after playing it for 10k hours there's still place to improve in visible ways
Call me crazy but I think a decent set of tutorial for new players is do-able.
Aside from tutorials on the basics about the virtues of NOT AUTO ATTACKING and DON'T WASTE MANA FOOL, they could have a set of scenarios where you play a set hero in a set scenario with bots with situations like setting up a gank then pushing the tower, setting up a solo kill, having a teamfight etc...
I recently spent some time levelling up a brand new account from 'new player' to high tab and some all of the people at that level would really benefit from some tutorials. It's like bnet down thar.
I think having a general overview of the game as a introductory tutorial would be great, but in addition it would be even better if new players could participate in pre-programmed scenarios where they have to complete some basic task like tauon is talking about, setting up ganks, pushing towers, maybe even stacking and pulling camps.
So a friend of mine enjoys making movies and decided to make a montage of Invoker clips from a week's worth of games to help promote my stream. I thought it was pretty well done :D
The only problem with tutorials is that people have to play them. Do you think because stay in that low bracket because they don't care about improving or because they don't know how to improve? Most people just don't care about getting better in video games.
Yeah the basics can be taught pretty easily but the tutorial would have to take 3 hours to put all the info with suitable demonstrations and other stuff. Now, how many of those scrubs that don't know about last hitting and denying will go through such a tutorial? Making it mandatory is not an option really, too many vets out there. Ofc you can make it shorter, but the shorter it is the worse it gets. Anyway, maybe it will be decent but it will be really hard to do, none of the other games of the genre did it right last time I checked
On October 04 2012 01:23 Firebolt145 wrote: So a friend of mine enjoys making movies and decided to make a montage of Invoker clips from a week's worth of games to help promote my stream. I thought it was pretty well done :D
On October 04 2012 01:23 Firebolt145 wrote: So a friend of mine enjoys making movies and decided to make a montage of Invoker clips from a week's worth of games to help promote my stream. I thought it was pretty well done :D
Yeah. That said, it's his first time making a Dota movie so there are definitely things to improve, for example I mentioned that he could speed up the clips when they're slow. If anyone has any other suggestions he'd love to hear them ~
EPT
