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On October 03 2012 20:19 Yoshi- wrote:
Well, in not organized games, you should always take his Wind walk spell, but you shouldn't really max it
He did say you "shouldn't get away with more than 1-2 points in stats", which is getting stats at 4 and 8, which is fine as PL most of the times. It's probally better than no walk until 9 for pubs. The issue was his justification, which makes no sense.
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If anything dopplewalk is a pushing spell at mid/late game (you make one illu to push lane and you go in jungle), no one gets it early in the game except using it for the escape.
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On October 03 2012 20:15 Iplaythings wrote:
On another note how would you guys build DP in lategame situations? I really don't have an idea other than mana boots -> bloodstone -> phase boots -> bkb and then randomly blademail, hex, heart or shiva.
Am I completely off? Should I get meka or pipe and what not, I don't get it even if I love playing the hero
I don't play DP very often (bad way to preface some advice  ) but the thread 2009's subbed VODs seems to have an excellent VOD/guide (enable captions).
Hope this helps.
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On October 03 2012 19:51 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 19:47 Nevuk wrote:On October 03 2012 19:40 Shikyo wrote:On October 03 2012 19:39 NB wrote:
you build PL lance with stat... no dope walk until level 9...this has been discussed before. That sounds pretty dumb, doppelwalk is a very important offensive spell too. I don't think you can get away with much more than 1-2 points of stats how is dopplewalk an offensive spell? The more real reason people skip dopplewalk is because a single point in it gives you the same escape as 4 points in it. +38hp/2dmg/26 mana is honestly going to keep you alive more frequently than dopplewalk. It's by far the worst escape mechanism in the game. People going the stats build are still going to go dopplewalk if they think they're getting ganked but there's no call for putting past one point in it. You don't want juxtapose early because it pushes your lane, thus stats are taken. The ult only gets taken at 6 because it gives 10% magic resist. In fights it's an extra illusion which for PL is quite helpful. Helps with pushing towers. It's the cheapest way to kill a camp with PL after he gets a few levels into jux and ult. Speed buff for chasing more often, more mana for more lance, etc.
Yes, because an 8 second 25% dmg extra illusion of a 290 ms melee hero is really going to make all the difference in a level 8 fight. Even if that were true in any way shape or form a single point of dopplewalk will give you that illusion. Personally I would rather spam 3 spears in a fight that early than be able to cast dopplewalk twice.
The illusion you get from throwing your spear is the same duration and nukes the wave if you're really just need that extra 10-15 damage per hit on a tower (and that's being generous) for 8 seconds early on.
The point is that dopplewalk isn't a good spell and is at best a one point wonder. Putting 3 points in it to lower the CD from 30 to 15 isn't worth it, from 150 to 60 mana cost isn't either (3 points in stats is + 78 mana, you save 90 from maxing dopplewalk). All the stuff you listed off can be done with one point in dopplewalk (if we're talking new players here) and stats allows you to spam lance more frequently than does extra points in dopplewalk, unless dopplewalk is being constantly spammed. Who spams dopplewalk anyways? At most a person later on is going to need to use it once per wave (every 30 seconds) to push because you have to luck out insanely hard to get your 8 second dopplewalk to proc on a jungle camp if you're dopplewalking in lane.
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On October 03 2012 20:45 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 19:51 Shikyo wrote:On October 03 2012 19:47 Nevuk wrote:On October 03 2012 19:40 Shikyo wrote:On October 03 2012 19:39 NB wrote:
you build PL lance with stat... no dope walk until level 9...this has been discussed before. That sounds pretty dumb, doppelwalk is a very important offensive spell too. I don't think you can get away with much more than 1-2 points of stats how is dopplewalk an offensive spell? The more real reason people skip dopplewalk is because a single point in it gives you the same escape as 4 points in it. +38hp/2dmg/26 mana is honestly going to keep you alive more frequently than dopplewalk. It's by far the worst escape mechanism in the game. People going the stats build are still going to go dopplewalk if they think they're getting ganked but there's no call for putting past one point in it. You don't want juxtapose early because it pushes your lane, thus stats are taken. The ult only gets taken at 6 because it gives 10% magic resist. In fights it's an extra illusion which for PL is quite helpful. Helps with pushing towers. It's the cheapest way to kill a camp with PL after he gets a few levels into jux and ult. Speed buff for chasing more often, more mana for more lance, etc. Yes, because an 8 second 25% dmg extra illusion of a 290 ms melee hero is really going to make all the difference in a level 8 fight. Even if that were true in any way shape or form a single point of dopplewalk will give you that illusion. Personally I would rather spam 3 spears in a fight that early than be able to cast dopplewalk twice. The illusion you get from throwing your spear is the same duration and nukes the wave if you're really just need that extra 10-15 damage per hit on a tower (and that's being generous) for 8 seconds early on. The point is that dopplewalk isn't a good spell and is at best a one point wonder. Putting 3 points in it to lower the CD from 30 to 15 isn't worth it, from 150 to 60 mana cost isn't either (3 points in stats is + 78 mana, you save 90 from maxing dopplewalk). All the stuff you listed off can be done with one point in dopplewalk (if we're talking new players here) and stats allows you to spam lance more frequently than does extra points in dopplewalk, unless dopplewalk is being constantly spammed. Who spams dopplewalk anyways? At most a person later on is going to need to use it once per wave (every 30 seconds) to push because you have to luck out insanely hard to get your 8 second dopplewalk to proc on a jungle camp if you're dopplewalking in lane.
It's not a lvl 8 fight I'm talking about ... or are you not going to have your jux and ult maxed until like 20? o_O
And eh ... I always spam Doppelwalk in fights ^-^
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Anyone know how to permanently set the "Network" setting to OFF? Everytime I start the game again it's automatically set to ON.
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On October 03 2012 20:39 tauon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 20:15 Iplaythings wrote:
On another note how would you guys build DP in lategame situations? I really don't have an idea other than mana boots -> bloodstone -> phase boots -> bkb and then randomly blademail, hex, heart or shiva.
Am I completely off? Should I get meka or pipe and what not, I don't get it even if I love playing the hero I don't play DP very often (bad way to preface some advice ) but the thread 2009's subbed VODs seems to have an excellent VOD/guide (enable captions). Hope this helps.
I watched to 35 minutes and it definitly gave some insight, thanks alot
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If i remember well, you put only one point in doppel around lvl4 when your mid starts ganking. I usually don't put any more point in it until lvl 14.
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Lalalaland34510 Posts
On October 03 2012 21:21 Erasme wrote:
If i remember well, you put only one point in doppel around lvl4 when your mid starts ganking. I usually don't put any more point in it until lvl 14.
Erasme goes midas on all heroes without understanding anything at all. He literally doesn't understand dota2 at all. New players, do not listen to erasme's advice, it's bad.
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On October 03 2012 21:27 Firebolt145 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 21:21 Erasme wrote:
If i remember well, you put only one point in doppel around lvl4 when your mid starts ganking. I usually don't put any more point in it until lvl 14. Erasme goes midas on all heroes without understanding anything at all. He literally doesn't understand dota2 at all. New players, do not listen to erasme's advice, it's bad.
I don't build midas on TA/AM. But yeah midas core item on every other heroes.
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On October 03 2012 21:27 Firebolt145 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 21:21 Erasme wrote:
If i remember well, you put only one point in doppel around lvl4 when your mid starts ganking. I usually don't put any more point in it until lvl 14. Erasme goes midas on all heroes without understanding anything at all. He literally doesn't understand dota2 at all. New players, do not listen to erasme's advice, it's bad.
I have to publicly announce that he did not build midas on lich last night!
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I didnt play lich last night !
And i never play lich, I hate everytime i random lich, i'd rather random bs or alche than lich anytime
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On October 03 2012 21:32 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 21:27 Firebolt145 wrote:On October 03 2012 21:21 Erasme wrote:
If i remember well, you put only one point in doppel around lvl4 when your mid starts ganking. I usually don't put any more point in it until lvl 14. Erasme goes midas on all heroes without understanding anything at all. He literally doesn't understand dota2 at all. New players, do not listen to erasme's advice, it's bad. I have to publicly announce that he did not build midas on lich last night!
I assume he failed support as lich that game.
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On October 03 2012 21:34 Erasme wrote:
I didnt play lich last night !
wat.
k, then you have a double out there somewhere. Thought the combination of being French and that nickname is unique. =(
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Im too famous, thats why people love to copy me.
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Midas core on Chen vs Enchantress wars. If he/she steals a creep, just convert it. If I can't have it, noone will.
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Dunno if you're playing passive farm-mode there is little point in having an army of useless images that may push your lane. Lower the CD+Mana on your windwalk seems like a safer alternative. At least for a few points.
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Lalalaland34510 Posts
On October 03 2012 21:37 SKC wrote:
Midas core on Chen vs Enchantress wars. If he/she steals a creep, just convert it. If I can't have it, noone will.
Don't forget hotd for when midas is on cd.
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On October 03 2012 21:42 Firebolt145 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 21:37 SKC wrote:
Midas core on Chen vs Enchantress wars. If he/she steals a creep, just convert it. If I can't have it, noone will. Don't forget hotd for when midas is on cd.
There is always refresher as well.
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Lalalaland34510 Posts
On October 03 2012 21:41 Slardar wrote:
Dunno if you're playing passive farm-mode there is little point in having an army of useless images that may push your lane. Lower the CD+Mana on your windwalk seems like a safer alternative. At least for a few points.
This sort of decision is best left to people with good game sense. For people that need guides for what skill build to get, I also believe the cookie cutter is max spirit lance, 1 point in doppelwalk, stats until 1 point in illusion at level 9 with ult at level 10 and 11 followed by max illusions, then finally max doppelwalk.
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EPT
