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On September 25 2012 12:12 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2012 12:06 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
Why even bother having an introduction hero though. If you're so new that you've never even seen the game interface then that is pretty much the only thing bot games are good for. Past that though you should just jump in and play with everyone who is just as new and bad as you are. Lich teaches you the fundamentals of play. You run out of mana for spamming spells and you need to get more somehow (lich just makes this more forgiving by having it built in) denying gives you an advantage Timing your skills gives a greater advantage than spam. Hero Power changes with time. Coordination with your team makes you far more effective Lich has spells that directly relate to each of these points and these are some of the most important lessons to learn in dota and lessons that trancend any specific hero, lich just makes each of these easier as to introduce you to these points.
I don't think the leap from I use this skill on my creeps for mana to I use this skill/autos on my own creeps to control the lane is an intuitive thought process that people pick up. I know I didn't learn what denying was by playing lich and using dark ritual. Somebody told me about the concept and I tried it out and now I know why it is effective and how to actually use it to my advantage. If you accept that somebody needs to inform you about this then playing lich is completely useless because it hinders your need to actually need to learn lane control. As lich you're probably going to have the lane advantage without even knowing what you're doing just because of the nature of the hero. I consider this bad because it doesn't teach you anything. You're gaining an advantage by using the heroes kit in the most intuitive fashion. The key to future success is understanding why it works.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
The problem is with Mirana is that she needs alooooooot of farm to be usefull in the lategame, that is not something a lot of new players will get,
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On September 25 2012 14:06 NB wrote:semi-nsfw + Show Spoiler +hmmmm what are good items on visage now aday? I just dont get the medallion thing :-/
I enjoy mek into necro book if i get farmed. But i have often though of maybe saving up for a shiva/forcestaff/hex instead.
Honestly speaking though, i completely suck as visage and I am almost certainly building him COMPLETEY wrong.
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I second the guy who said Lina. I always tell my friends to pick lina if it is their first game, and pick a stunner myself to lane with her, like sven or something. Lina has intuitive skills, requires mana management, is heavily punished if out of position and if the she gets a rocky start her skillset allows her to fairly quickly catch up a bit on the farm. And it feels good to kill someone with the ulti.
I don't agree on windrunner though. Yes, she is superfun to play, she is easy to escape death with and can play most positions, but this is in my opinion what makes her a bad starter hero. It takes many many games before you can somewhat assess the situation, and she takes a bit of experience to be effective with. It is too common to see windrunners run around and not really achieving anything. She has to be active pretty much all game long.
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On September 25 2012 14:38 SirMilford wrote:I enjoy mek into necro book if i get farmed. But i have often though of maybe saving up for a shiva/forcestaff/hex instead. Honestly speaking though, i completely suck as visage and I am almost certainly building him COMPLETEY wrong.
the recommend items for visage is mostly bullshit. I normally go for early basilus -> tranquil depend on how much i need to spam spells on lane. Then slowly transition into either bloodstone->orchid. Visage nature HP is quite low for him to survive in teamfight + he needs mana to spam W. Maxing out on raw HP using blood stone scale extremely well as you start picking up E mid game. I know that a lot of people thing mek is great item on visage but tbh i dont like the idea of spending your precious mana on anything but W. This is why i often build him like a semi carry Necrolyte/DeathProphet kinda thing.
Skill wise 1 level Q, max W and stat then pick E mid game, max Q last. Have been getting a lot of visage in random lately T_T
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Lalalaland34510 Posts
Shikyo, have you had a single opinion that people generally agree with yet? I haven't seen anyone stir up as much controversy as you. World's most underappreciated genius imo :D
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On September 25 2012 15:11 Firebolt145 wrote:
Shikyo, have you had a single opinion that people generally agree with yet? I haven't seen anyone stir up as much controversy as you. World's most underappreciated genius imo :D
Shikyo is a troll. Just look at the league subsection where he has the qq thread named after him. This guy can't be real. If he is I'm sorry for him.
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its the gullible people that fall for it that are the problem
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how fast should you get a naked rapier, if you're in the easy lane ? I saw kuroky get a 12min rapier on broodmother top lane as sent so I was wondering if it was the fastest possible ~~
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On September 25 2012 16:44 Erasme wrote:
how fast should you get a naked rapier, if you're in the easy lane ? I saw kuroky get a 12min rapier on broodmother top lane as sent so I was wondering if it was the fastest possible ~~
Radiance + 2-3 minutes
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On September 25 2012 16:44 Erasme wrote:
how fast should you get a naked rapier, if you're in the easy lane ? I saw kuroky get a 12min rapier on broodmother top lane as sent so I was wondering if it was the fastest possible ~~
12 minutes off only lane creeps and passive gold gain is fastest possibly assuming maximum bounty each last hit and spending all of starting gold on it. broodmother can farm jungle too to make it even faster. and obviously doombringer/alchemist ect can get it faster than 12 minutes as well. and any kills on heroes or towers speed things up.
EDIT actually it's about 11 minutes with lane creeps only, forgot siege creeps.
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On September 25 2012 15:11 Firebolt145 wrote:
Shikyo, have you had a single opinion that people generally agree with yet? I haven't seen anyone stir up as much controversy as you. World's most underappreciated genius imo :D
It doesn't really matter if the majority doesn't agree with me, the most popular music genre is pop after all. But yeah I explained my reasoning
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Lich is boring, if I was coming from LoL and played that hero I'd just go back to LoL.
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just noticed that catz and painuser are 5 manning some dotes
tuned in but now seeing them getting styled on by sand king blink ulty every single fight is extremely painful
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On September 25 2012 17:01 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Lich is boring, if I was coming from LoL and played that hero I'd just go back to LoL.
Enjoy your auto attack modifier, gap closer, damage spell/debuff, general utility ult champs then  far more exciting lol
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The thing with going from LoL to DotA is that there is a lot of other stuff to get used to. Mana management is a very big one, so lich is quite bad for a LoL player. Playing a simple hero like Leoric or tide can teach you mana management while also getting used to the other aspects of the game - courier, long animations, the towers huge range, and aggro mechanics. After a few games of those heroes, basically any hero is ok - This is when heroes such as WR are great for learning, when you have the basics down and can start focusing on the large amount of active items and also having difficult to hit spells (shackle).
Edit: what a lot of people forget about the transition from LoL to DotA is the amount of items. Most champions (heh, caught myself :D) will get like... one active item at most. Sure you have 4 active skills, but in DotA you can easily have 8 (10, but tp etc (doesn't count invoker etc)). Trying to learn this on top of a reasonably complicated hero like WR can be a bit overwhelming. I certainly wouldn't recommend it for my first game from LoL.
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On September 25 2012 17:01 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Lich is boring, if I was coming from LoL and played that hero I'd just go back to LoL.
matter of opinion, I've played a lot of Dota and I still enjoy Lich
then again I mostly solo mid it, but still
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On September 25 2012 17:03 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2012 17:01 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Lich is boring, if I was coming from LoL and played that hero I'd just go back to LoL. Enjoy your auto attack modifier, gap closer, damage spell/debuff, general utility ult champs then far more exciting lol
Enjoy your targetable spell, your other targetable spell, and of course your other targetable spell.
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On September 25 2012 17:04 DoNotDisturb wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2012 17:01 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Lich is boring, if I was coming from LoL and played that hero I'd just go back to LoL. matter of opinion, I've played a lot of Dota and I still enjoy Lich then again I mostly solo mid it, but still
Solo lich best lich. Gank from lvl6 double kills everywhere!!!
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The reason why Lich is the best hero for newbies is not that you learn lane control or mana conservation or anything else people here who are critical are pointing to. The reason why Lich is such a great newb hero is because when you're new to a complex game, you need to learn bit by bit. You can just sit with dota and learn every single aspect immediately, it will take ages. So much better to go for a hero where you can ignore mana conservation, lane control and to some extent which items to get, and focus on the more basic aspects of the game: How does your strength change over time and dependant on items, how to position a squishy hero so you don't die immediately, which situations to be aggressive/defensive, when to use an ult... Then when you know these things, you can play a hero where you don't have constant free mana, and now you've added a level of complexity, which is fine because you're already comfortable with the rest.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/cQjJj.jpg)
