EPTGeneral Discussion - Page 1096
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ControlMonkey
Australia3109 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On September 25 2012 11:15 Heh_ wrote: I'm not the guy who mentioned about the 4 active spells on Mirana. I don't know a single thing about LoL. I have watched less than 2 minutes of LoL in my whole life (probably watched 1 minute during MLG Raleigh). So I won't know anything about how many skillshots there are in LoL and about what role you play in LoL. To me, people new to Dota and Dota2 are all beginners, regardless of whether they came from SC2, LoL or having no experience at all. I'll treat HoN as an exception, although not many people play that game anymore anyways (I think). And I'd give all of them a simple hero to work with because there's a lot of things to get used to: Items, other heroes, neutrals, pathing and juking, Roshan... the list goes on. I didn't respond to you about the 4 active spells... I've played 2500 games of LoL and you've seen 2 minutes, I think I have some sort of an idea about what a person might know after playing LoL. I'd give them a hero they'd feel comfortable with. But yeah up to him, I think I've presented my reasoning pretty well. | ||
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
On September 25 2012 11:22 Shikyo wrote: 1. High range 2. Good animation 3. Escape mechanism. I don't see high arrow rate as a requirement at all, most of the time you should hit them close range or after a disable anyway. Rest is a bonus. She also can carry games and she can escape ganks really well. paikyo stop theorycrafting you go play some mirana and come back to share us your experience xD also, what close range arrow, all newbies try to hit arrow like buying lottery. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On September 25 2012 11:25 BurningSera wrote: paikyo stop theorycrafting you go play some mirana and come back to share us your experience xD also, what close range arrow, all newbies try to hit arrow like buying lottery. I've played Mirana, that was a long time ago though | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
I think playing things like Windrunner, who can be useful as any position, is really the way to go about learning. You might be overwhelmed by the sheer number of tasks you could possibility set up to do, but as long as you pick one and try to do it well you should learn something. Only real problem is that windrunner plays mid a lot in low level so you might get rocked without knowing what is going on if you don't understand runes. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On September 25 2012 11:24 Shikyo wrote: I didn't respond to you about the 4 active spells... I've played 2500 games of LoL and you've seen 2 minutes, I think I have some sort of an idea about what a person might know after playing LoL. I'd give them a hero they'd feel comfortable with. But yeah up to him, I think I've presented my reasoning pretty well. I really don't understand why a LoL-Carry player would be comfortable with mirana. her playstyle is nothing like a LoL-Carry aside from having range and you know, being called a carry by dota terms. like i said prophet antimage and spectre are most like LoL-Carries, even though only 1 of the three have range. for playing 2500 games of LoL you may know what makes a LoL-Carry, but you certainly haven't shown any of us that you know how dota works. | ||
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Heh_
Singapore2712 Posts
On September 25 2012 11:24 Shikyo wrote: I didn't respond to you about the 4 active spells... I've played 2500 games of LoL and you've seen 2 minutes, I think I have some sort of an idea about what a person might know after playing LoL. I'd give them a hero they'd feel comfortable with. But yeah up to him, I think I've presented my reasoning pretty well. The part about 4 spells blended in with the rest, but whatever. I've played over 2500 games of Dota/Dota2 and you've played 50-ish, I think I have some sort of an idea which heroes might suit beginners better. Blindly playing a random Dota2 hero like a ranged AD carry in LoL will fail hard. Really hard. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On September 25 2012 11:23 ControlMonkey wrote: Mana management is important to learn. I suggest playing earth shaker, you will learn how to manage mana, and how to deal with rage as you constantly clock block your team mates. Suddenly I realized we have a new term for blocking out your teammates with Clock's power cogs. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On September 25 2012 11:16 PrinceXizor wrote: Um is dota 2 down for anyone else, just getting the "connecting to dota 2 network" every time i try to load. In case anyone is wondering it's because i didn't realize my steam had started in offline mode. ummm yeah i feel dumb. | ||
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Kishin2
United States7534 Posts
On September 25 2012 11:17 TheYango wrote: The ultimate problem here is that there's a difference between suggesting a hero that you'd want someone to play so you can win the game, and suggesting a hero that you think they will learn a lot from playing. Mirana is a hero that someone with a LoL background can absolutely jump into and learn a lot playing, but they will lose quite a few games on her during that period of time. Suggesting Lich or Skeleton King like someone above did are pretty shitty because someone could play a ton of games with them, and maybe win a lot of them, but not learn a lot about the game that they didn't already know. This. It probably doesn't even matter too much which hero a beginner plays since they'll have to know every hero to be decent. Only exceptions are the Invoker/Meepo/Chen tier of heroes that get a little bit overwhelming. | ||
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
On September 25 2012 11:28 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: I don't understand why people think lich is a great learning hero. His concept is quite simple, but he doesn't really play like any other support in the game since you can just brainlessly spam his nova and get mana back through ritual. All he does is establish a precedent of bad habits and inability to help control a lane since you're used to getting free denies. He may be simple and get you a lot of wins, but he isn't going to teach you anything about how to play a strong position 5 which if you actually want to play the game long term is the way to go. I think playing things like Windrunner, who can be useful as any position, is really the way to go about learning. You might be overwhelmed by the sheer number of tasks you could possibility set up to do, but as long as you pick one and try to do it well you should learn something. Only real problem is that windrunner plays mid a lot in low level so you might get rocked without knowing what is going on if you don't understand runes. I agree what you said on lich but we are talking about people who have never played dota before. You want to give them a good hero to get used to the game (ie have fun). Nova and ulti is highly important in killing shit, especially that ulti is huge in team fight - using them is a great pleasure for any new player to the game. While ritual can be used to compensate their lack of ability in mana management as a beginner. Armor is a plus in any situation. Not to mention that he can read about the oppo/ally heroes skills during the 'boring' laning phase. He will be eager to try out different heroes once he won some games with lich and then the real learning process will officially start. May be we should call lich the 'introduction hero', while the 'learning hero' is really up to the player. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
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ControlMonkey
Australia3109 Posts
Just play and learn as you go. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On September 25 2012 12:06 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: Why even bother having an introduction hero though. If you're so new that you've never even seen the game interface then that is pretty much the only thing bot games are good for. Past that though you should just jump in and play with everyone who is just as new and bad as you are. Lich teaches you the fundamentals of play. You run out of mana for spamming spells and you need to get more somehow (lich just makes this more forgiving by having it built in) denying gives you an advantage Timing your skills gives a greater advantage than spam. Hero Power changes with time. Coordination with your team makes you far more effective Lich has spells that directly relate to each of these points and these are some of the most important lessons to learn in dota and lessons that trancend any specific hero, lich just makes each of these easier as to introduce you to these points. | ||
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YODA_
593 Posts
I always suggest "beginners" to play lina, tbh, if they are familiar with the mechanics. She's really fun, her skill build is super easy, her item build is very simple, and she throws flames at people. Add her ult for getting random easy kills, and you have a winner. Lich is a no-no, you're just teaching bad habits, imo, and you'll die about 20 times in a game, not to mention the ulti is really finicky and he has basically zero late game presence if you have no items. | ||
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SirMilford
Australia1269 Posts
On September 25 2012 13:01 YODA_ wrote: I can't agree with recommending mirana to a beginner. She is super squishy and needs large amounts of farm to carry, and support mirana is not a pretty, or fun sight. I always suggest "beginners" to play lina, tbh, if they are familiar with the mechanics. She's really fun, her skill build is super easy, her item build is very simple, and she throws flames at people. Add her ult for getting random easy kills, and you have a winner. Lich is a no-no, you're just teaching bad habits, imo, and you'll die about 20 times in a game, not to mention the ulti is really finicky and he has basically zero late game presence if you have no items. It is not about teaching baits for mana mangement/how to last hit. It is about learning the huge hero pool and how they all interact. The first time a noobie see say a team pick naga/DS/enigma they would have 0 clue what that means. They wouldn't know the interaction between vac/sleep. What i am trying to say is they won't REALLY learn mana management anyway in noob games, its about the hero interaction and item interactino that you wan't to learn. | ||
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tpmraven
United States833 Posts
She is fun as fuck to play, and when you hit your skill shots it feels fucking awesome. She may not be the best hero for gaming noobs/ people who suck at video games, but even if you are new to dota type games, if you are not afraid to learn, and good at games in gerneral, then she is a perfect pick. | ||
TheEmulator
28104 Posts
On September 25 2012 13:39 tpmraven wrote: I second the guy who says Wind Runner. She can play any role, doesnt need farm to be viable, but can be very good with farm. she has a nuke/stun/excape. She is fun as fuck to play, and when you hit your skill shots it feels fucking awesome. She may not be the best hero for gaming noobs/ people who suck at video games, but even if you are new to dota type games, if you are not afraid to learn, and good at games in gerneral, then she is a perfect pick. Windrunner is great to play in pubs as she can fill a lot of different roles. edit: lol I somehow missed the part where you said she can play any role. I guess I am just seconding your point  | ||
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NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/cQjJj.jpg) hmmmm what are good items on visage now aday? I just dont get the medallion thing :-/ | ||
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