EPTBut you can tell yourself instead that balanced can be made up for by individual skill/play in public games. You can shut down the imba heroes in pubs pretty easily if you learn how.
General Discussion - Page 1080
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Aui_2000
Canada435 Posts
But you can tell yourself instead that balanced can be made up for by individual skill/play in public games. You can shut down the imba heroes in pubs pretty easily if you learn how. | ||
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teapoted
United Kingdom24425 Posts
Therefore it's equal, right? As I said, wrong way to think about it. All heroes can be shut down, almost all (few exceptions) can shine in their own way. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On September 22 2012 07:24 TheYango wrote: So what do you gain from accepting the truth? You can't do anything about it and it doesn't help you play any better. ? So? It doesn't make me play worse, I'm just not lying to myself to enjoy the game and see the game for what it is rather than what I wish it was. I'm sure devs appreciate the feedback, and they don't believe all heroes are balanced. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On September 22 2012 07:29 Aui_2000 wrote: But you can tell yourself instead that balanced can be made up for by individual skill/play in public games. You can shut down the imba heroes in pubs pretty easily if you learn how. Yeah? You could play better, always, but I don't understand why people are taking this the wrong way. NO BALANCE DISCUSSION ALLOWED BECAUSE ALL HEROES ARE BALANCED. I'm just saying meepo could benefit from a buff and it would be fair. The same way many other heroes have been adjusted in the history of dota 2 and dota 1, while many others will have their numbers changed in the future. | ||
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
The best atitude you can have is the kind Yango and Aui described. | ||
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teapoted
United Kingdom24425 Posts
Yeah? You could play better, always, but I don't understand why people are taking this the wrong way. NO BALANCE DISCUSSION ALLOWED BECAUSE ALL HEROES ARE BALANCED. This is the first time you are seeing the hero and you think it's under-powered (thus imbalanced)? That's the wrong attitude. The reason I'm trying to instill this attitude within you is that balance in a game like dota takes deep thought and metrics over a long period of time.I'm just saying meepo could benefit from a buff and it would be fair. The same way many other heroes have been adjusted in the history of dota 2 and dota 1, while many others will have their numbers changed in the future. I've played for 9 years and when I look at TI2, I see morphling dominate (in some games) and I don't think "this hero is clearly imbalanced". I say to myself "I wonder how teams will deal with this". It takes a lot until I will call anything imbalanced to the point where it has a negative effect on the game. And this applies to public games as well, all heroes shouldn't be equally useful in every situation, that's not what balance means in dota. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
"I wonder how teams will deal with this" You know how they dealt with it? By banning it or picking up other good heroes because pub play where players random and pick whatever they want is not CM where you can give up 1 great hero for 2 good heroes. | ||
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teapoted
United Kingdom24425 Posts
On September 22 2012 07:53 Itsmedudeman wrote: You're too cynical.Or we could just be honest about it. Alchemist sucks, morphling is good, and rod of atos kinda sucks. "I wonder how teams will deal with this" You know how they dealt with it? By banning it or picking up other good heroes because pub play where players random and pick whatever they want is not CM where you can give up 1 great hero for 2 good heroes. Banning a hero is a good reaction, that's why the bans are there. Now does banning a hero mean that it will be permanently banned forever? I'm sorry but you don't have the understanding of how this game plays out in the long run. A hero can remain unchanged and go through the stages of being useless, being a top pick, being a top ban, to being ignored again. The most interesting thing to the balance of the game is never changing it. That doesn't mean that there should never be a discussion about balance, but it should take a lot to get to the point where we need to have it. You talking about meepo being under-powered by watching him on a stream? That's silly, wait until you get completely destroyed by meepo in pubs and you could argue the opposite. | ||
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Benjef
United Kingdom6921 Posts
Besides Meepo just came out give people a chance to get used to him again (people ain't played dota 1 in a very long time) and get used to him in this engine. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On September 22 2012 07:57 teapoted wrote: You're too cynical. Banning a hero is a good reaction, that's why the bans are there. Now does banning a hero mean that it will be permanently banned forever? I'm sorry but you don't have the understanding of how this game plays out in the long run. A hero can remain unchanged and go through the stages of being useless, being a top pick, being a top ban, to being ignored again. The most interesting thing to the balance of the game is never changing it. That doesn't mean that there should never be a discussion about balance, but it should take a lot to get to the point where we need to have it. You talking about meepo being under-powered by watching him on a stream? That's silly, wait until you get completely destroyed by meepo in pubs and you could argue the opposite. ? You say you've been playing for 9 years yet you ignore all the constant balance changes that have been made to heroes over the time as well as changes in the meta that weren't natural and spurred by the developers. Even if it's not a direct change to a hero the game ends up shifting thanks to new items and new heroes and new compositions. Meepo and some other "underpowered" heroes have been around for a long time already. I'm just being real, not cynical. | ||
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34510 Posts
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teapoted
United Kingdom24425 Posts
On September 22 2012 08:09 Itsmedudeman wrote: I played against deathward riki and never thought about balance, because it wasn't useful towards me winning a game. You're not being 'real', you're whining.? You say you've been playing for 9 years yet you ignore all the constant balance changes that have been made to heroes over the time as well as changes in the meta that weren't natural and spurred by the developers. Even if it's not a direct change to a hero the game ends up shifting thanks to new items and new heroes and new compositions. Meepo and some other "underpowered" heroes have been around for a long time already. I'm just being real, not cynical. Dota is a game where you are presented with tons of options, then you figure it out yourself. If you really can say something is balanced or not within the day that you saw it, well then you should be doing something better than typing forum posts, because, as I said, in the long run it doesn't end up that way and the best teams win regardless. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
Apparently pointing out weaknesses and faults to a hero is whining. Apparently you can't work on being better while accepting the truth that not all heroes aren't equal. Today I learned | ||
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crms
United States11933 Posts
also newbs couldnt land the net for shit back in dota1 newbie days. | ||
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teapoted
United Kingdom24425 Posts
On September 22 2012 08:18 Itsmedudeman wrote: Not all heroes are equal. Not all heroes can be equal. That's not how the game works. Meepo isn't as good in line-up a as in line-up b and against line-up c or against line-up d running strategy w or running strategy x against strategy y or against strategy z.When have I whined? Lmfao Apparently pointing out weaknesses and faults to a hero is whining. Apparently you can't work on being better while accepting the truth that not all heroes aren't equal. Today I learned | ||
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Daozzt
United States1263 Posts
On September 22 2012 08:24 teapoted wrote: Not all heroes are equal. Not all heroes can be equal. That's not how the game works. Meepo isn't as good in line-up a as in line-up b and against line-up c or against line-up d running strategy w or running strategy x against strategy y or against strategy z. Some heroes are just straight up shit compared to others, and need some tweaks/buffs. Knowing that doesn't make you play better/worse though, neither does denying that. | ||
Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
On September 22 2012 08:19 crms wrote: i still remember meepo from old clan tda us east games where he was the biggest troll pick ever. he was either the biggest feeder idiot in the world or he was super gosu pro that raped your team. there is never a middle ground with meepo, you're shit or you're amazing. I'm not sure how much has changed with him. also newbs couldnt land the net for shit back in dota1 newbie days. Much like Pudge lol. | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On September 22 2012 07:57 teapoted wrote: You're too cynical. Banning a hero is a good reaction, that's why the bans are there. Now does banning a hero mean that it will be permanently banned forever? I'm sorry but you don't have the understanding of how this game plays out in the long run. A hero can remain unchanged and go through the stages of being useless, being a top pick, being a top ban, to being ignored again. The most interesting thing to the balance of the game is never changing it. That doesn't mean that there should never be a discussion about balance, but it should take a lot to get to the point where we need to have it. You talking about meepo being under-powered by watching him on a stream? That's silly, wait until you get completely destroyed by meepo in pubs and you could argue the opposite. If you're drafting or trying to balance a game, there's no other way to do it properly than being cynical. If you draft a bad hero thinking "oh he's good anyway" you'll give a handicap to yourself. If you draft a hero that's bad but that a teammate can play so well that the performance will be better than if you picked a better hero they can't play as well you're again being cynical. There's no "too cynical" when talking about game balance. | ||
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hollabackk
118 Posts
On September 22 2012 09:55 FinestHour wrote: not enough people getting blink on meepo Sorry for being ignorant, but why exactly is it core on meepo? Is it just to set up poofs? | ||
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