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United States47024 Posts
On September 22 2012 12:21 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 12:17 LAN-f34r wrote:
For a new player I wouldn't go qop invoker venge ES morph sylla chen or puck out of those heroes. They either require certain knowledge about how well a fight will go (qop/puck, who despite good escape, are squishy), can screw their team up with bad spell usage (venge ES) or have mechanics difficult to think about for a new player (chen/druid with multiple units, and invoker). it's to ease you into the complexity, yeah QOP is difficult at high levels but in normal MMR pubs often a blink is ALL you need to go 0 deaths. and those characters are often listed near the end of the lists for a reason and offlane/jungle lists should be done after you play a lot of games. xD
Personally I don't like the mentality of "this hero is difficult at higher MMR, but you don't need to learn them properly and can just pubstomp with them".
If I want to learn a hero, I'd want to learn to play them properly, not get in a bunch of bad habits I can get away with because I'm not playing against good players (obviously playing at lower MMR always entails some bad habit-forming, but the less the better).
There are plenty of good tempo-carrying mid heroes that are much more suitable for the mid player moving just past playing Lich than QoP is--Night Stalker or Rhasta, for example. QoP's a good hero to learn, but the gap in skill requirement going from Lich to QoP is fairly large--and I don't see why you'd want to make such a huge jump when there are plenty of playable mid heroes that fill that gap.
Also, I'm curious why you have CM so far down and Venge so far toward the beginning on the Supports list. In my mind, CM is a good support to start with because she has high effectiveness on lane and is fairly forgiving if you are not effective at the other early-game actions for a support (stacking/pulling creeps, roaming ganks with or without smoke). Venge is a fairly weak lane support, and is therefore quite unforgiving of not doing those other things effectively.
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Well, eventually every new low level player will get owned by a bloodseeker and want to play that.
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United States47024 Posts
On September 22 2012 12:53 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Well, eventually every new low level player will get owned by a bloodseeker and want to play that.
Honestly, Bloodseeker is really not a bad hero for learning the general mindset of playing a tempo-carrying mid hero. He's quite a flawed hero overall, but a lot of what you'd learn playing Bloodseeker is quite applicable to many other similar heroes.
For example, he's smooth to lane with, but also demands that you win your lane and suppress the development of your opponent because a Bloodseeker that isn't crushing his lane becomes useless. He's easy to gank with because noobs suck at playing against Rupture, but he also demands that you gank effectively while still controlling your own farm tempo because Bloodseeker is not all that strong lategame so you really have to take control of the game.
Against low-skill players, he makes the things you have to do easy, but he is unforgiving for doing those things poorly/incorrectly because of the inherent flaws of the hero--which makes him a good hero for learning to do those things correctly.
I honestly don't think letting someone try to learn mid on Bloodseeker is a bad idea provided they know what they're supposed to be getting out of it.
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On September 22 2012 12:41 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 12:21 PrinceXizor wrote:On September 22 2012 12:17 LAN-f34r wrote:
For a new player I wouldn't go qop invoker venge ES morph sylla chen or puck out of those heroes. They either require certain knowledge about how well a fight will go (qop/puck, who despite good escape, are squishy), can screw their team up with bad spell usage (venge ES) or have mechanics difficult to think about for a new player (chen/druid with multiple units, and invoker). it's to ease you into the complexity, yeah QOP is difficult at high levels but in normal MMR pubs often a blink is ALL you need to go 0 deaths. and those characters are often listed near the end of the lists for a reason and offlane/jungle lists should be done after you play a lot of games. xD Personally I don't like the mentality of "this hero is difficult at higher MMR, but you don't need to learn them properly and can just pubstomp with them". If I want to learn a hero, I'd want to learn to play them properly, not get in a bunch of bad habits I can get away with because I'm not playing against good players (obviously playing at lower MMR always entails some bad habit-forming, but the less the better). There are plenty of good tempo-carrying mid heroes that are much more suitable for the mid player moving just past playing Lich than QoP is--Night Stalker or Rhasta, for example. QoP's a good hero to learn, but the gap in skill requirement going from Lich to QoP is fairly large--and I don't see why you'd want to make such a huge jump when there are plenty of playable mid heroes that fill that gap. Also, I'm curious why you have CM so far down and Venge so far toward the beginning on the Supports list. In my mind, CM is a good support to start with because she has high effectiveness on lane and is fairly forgiving if you are not effective at the other early-game actions for a support (stacking/pulling creeps, roaming ganks with or without smoke). Venge is a fairly weak lane support, and is therefore quite unforgiving of not doing those other things effectively.
I was trying to find a good flow between mids while ignoring more niche mids altogether, i mean if we are talking about 1 character to learn the game with i'd 100% of the time suggest rubick. but i was trying to ive him a list to ease into common picks that go from easy survivability to harder survivability. the biggest barrier to learning the game isn't not learning enough, but being stomped into the ground before you can learn anything, and QOP is rather easy to avoid dying with. though that increases ind iffculty the better players you play against.
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On September 22 2012 12:53 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Well, eventually every new low level player will get owned by a bloodseeker and want to play that.
Rite of passage tbh.
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some people were talking about smoking with meepo, why does smoke make ganking with him so much easier? i feel like im missing some obvious point that i cant think of right now
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United States47024 Posts
On September 22 2012 14:43 FinestHour wrote:
some people were talking about smoking with meepo, why does smoke make ganking with him so much easier? i feel like im missing some obvious point that i cant think of right now
Same way it does for any Blink Dagger ganker. Daytime sight range is 1800 for most heroes, Blink range is 1200, Smoke break range is 1025.
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On September 22 2012 14:43 FinestHour wrote:
some people were talking about smoking with meepo, why does smoke make ganking with him so much easier? i feel like im missing some obvious point that i cant think of right now
You net them from outside smoke range while they're preoccupied and if you hit it's a free kill~
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Connecting to DotA 2 network....
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So dreamhack valencia is today and apparently they also have dota2, anything about it?
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http://www.dreamhack.es/en/competiciones/dota-2/ Official DH site
The GD Team: 2GD, Weppas, Skrff, Spaniard, Bumblebee is one of the invited teams. Only one that you might know is fnatic eu. No high profile teams  Thou watching it might be fun
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Yea i saw that but i meant something like schedule or caster.
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Can't find ANYTHING so far on valencia, will check fnatics page, maybe there's some info
EDIT: nope
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and failing :D
Though not like I can blame him, I would do even worse
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Yeah shows how easily you can nuke him down.
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On September 22 2012 18:22 Qbek wrote:http://www.dreamhack.es/en/competiciones/dota-2/ Official DH site The GD Team: 2GD, Weppas, Skrff, Spaniard, Bumblebee is one of the invited teams. Only one that you might know is fnatic eu. No high profile teams Thou watching it might be fun
My inside sources say they will be drunk
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On September 22 2012 19:43 MVTaylor wrote:My inside sources say they will be drunk
My outside sources would be surprised if they weren't
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EPT
