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On September 15 2012 20:43 Unleashing wrote:
Randoming is the best way to learn, even IceFrog says that.
It's how i learned how to play DotA, i see nothing wrong with it.
He'll be vs people just as bad as him,so it wont be a problem.
Also HL3 isn't 5 years late, they never promised a release date so it can't be late to begin with.
depends on what stage of learning, early on the randoming helps you play with a lot of the heroes and the extra gold helps compensate for bad mechanics, but if you keep doing it, you'll never get good because you miss out on counterpicking and you also never fully develop your fundamentals, because you rely on the extra gold advantage. To get better, you should random then repick to counter your opponents, this way you start thinking about matchups and force yourself into a gold disadvantage so your mechanics gets trained.
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That is may the dumbest advice i have ever read.
Pubs don't need counterpicking, cause that simply doesn't work in pubs.
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Why counter pick in pubs? Lol
There's no need for that at all, ever.
I beat QoP mid with tiny in pubs.
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It's not a bad thing to think proactively when choosing a hero in pubs though..
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Did anybody say that it was a bad thing? Nope, nobody did.
But you most certainly don't need to counter pick.
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On September 15 2012 20:55 kdgns wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 20:43 Unleashing wrote:
Randoming is the best way to learn, even IceFrog says that.
It's how i learned how to play DotA, i see nothing wrong with it.
He'll be vs people just as bad as him,so it wont be a problem.
Also HL3 isn't 5 years late, they never promised a release date so it can't be late to begin with. depends on what stage of learning, early on the randoming helps you play with a lot of the heroes and the extra gold helps compensate for bad mechanics, but if you keep doing it, you'll never get good because you miss out on counterpicking and you also never fully develop your fundamentals, because you rely on the extra gold advantage. To get better, you should random then repick to counter your opponents, this way you start thinking about matchups and force yourself into a gold disadvantage so your mechanics gets trained.
Ho I didn't meant anything about counterpicking, just that imo randoming isn't the best way to learn the game. (I said terrible, which was a bad choice of word, it's obviously not terrible).
Just that imo, starting with random from your very first game isn't the best way to do it. Read a few guides, find a hero you'd like to play, pick him for 5-10 games, then do that with another hero. When you'll get comfortable with a hero you'll discover that you'll be able to pay attention to a lot of new things outside your own hero, and that's when you'll learn a lot. And that doesn't happen, or at least a lot less, if you random because you're learning the heroes and not the game (even tho learning the heroes is a big part of learning the game)
Then you either continue one hero at a time or you start randoming. My point is starting to random for your very first game is not efficient (and sometime not even fun).
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But if you are not TRULY good enough to play most heroes, you dont random in high+ tier game, like seriously, it is a fcking autolose for your team. Played a game where a guy noob at Bara, mofo didnt even know he can use charge to escape from gank. Flame the shit out of him because we gave him free farm 10mins (the first item he got was MoM and he played him like a hardcarry afk farming). Everyone in game have 800+ games played and when the oppo go tryhard mode picking good combos in AP, so many of my games ruined by these noob randomers.
You could still repick if you are 'good player' but fcking go repick when people counterpick you/you cant play that hero at all, sometimes you gotta give in and repick.
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I random in very high tier matchmaking, i only random.
And i win by far most of my games.
And even if you random a hero you haven't played before or a hero you don't know anything about, why the fuck would you repick when you random? That should be the best time to learn the hero, more gold than picking it.
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On September 15 2012 20:56 Yoshi- wrote:
That is may the dumbest advice i have ever read.
Pubs don't need counterpicking, cause that simply doesn't work in pubs.
you don't need to counterpick, but to get better you should know what hero is good against another hero in lane, if you actually pick your hero, you're making an active decision, so you are thinking about the game more. I was talking about how to get better, not how to play pubs.
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On September 15 2012 21:08 Unleashing wrote:
I random in very high tier matchmaking, i only random.
And i win by far most of my games.
I edited my post abit. I random 90% of my games because i can and i am capable to do so. If you started to play dota from dota2 and you still random at high skill game ie you actually won most games with a hero that you first time playing, you are either a super genius (you need to immediately send cv to iG/LGD/Navi) or you are just carried by your stack or you are insanely lucky.
LOL, lets say when you randomed huskar and they have shit counter you and even throw in that necro, counter picking can screw them hardcore otherwise have fun playing an extremely hard game.
And counter picking IS in pub. Tryhards everywhere and gay combos every fcking game. I blame people are too good nowadays or they watch/learn too much from TI2.
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On September 15 2012 21:06 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 20:55 kdgns wrote:On September 15 2012 20:43 Unleashing wrote:
Randoming is the best way to learn, even IceFrog says that.
It's how i learned how to play DotA, i see nothing wrong with it.
He'll be vs people just as bad as him,so it wont be a problem.
Also HL3 isn't 5 years late, they never promised a release date so it can't be late to begin with. depends on what stage of learning, early on the randoming helps you play with a lot of the heroes and the extra gold helps compensate for bad mechanics, but if you keep doing it, you'll never get good because you miss out on counterpicking and you also never fully develop your fundamentals, because you rely on the extra gold advantage. To get better, you should random then repick to counter your opponents, this way you start thinking about matchups and force yourself into a gold disadvantage so your mechanics gets trained. Ho I didn't meant anything about counterpicking, just that imo randoming isn't the best way to learn the game. (I said terrible, which was a bad choice of word). Just that imo, starting with random from your very first game isn't the best way to do it. Read a few guides, find a hero you'd like to play, pick him for 5-10 games, then do that with another hero. When you'll get comfortable with a hero you'll discover that you'll be able to pay attention to a lot of new things outside your own hero, and that's when you'll learn a lot. And that doesn't happen, or at least a lot less, if you random because you're learning the heroes and not the game (even tho learning the heroes is a big part of learning the game) Then you either continue one hero at a time or you start randoming. My point is start to random for your very first game is not efficient (and sometime not even fun).
Well yeah, maybe I was wrong saying you should start randoming after 10-15 games with one hero. It'd probably better to start randoming once you've played 10-15 games on 5-6 different heroes, then to start randoming. Honestly, as long as you've got an alt tab guide ready, randoming shouldn't mess you up too badly unless you get a hero that's harder for new players, like syllabear, visage or invoker or something like that.
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Counter picking is used in pubs by 'tryhards' yes, but counter aren't needed in pubs because people don't play coordinated at all. in 99% of my games i can random and it'll be fine.
Also i'm pretty sure we were talking about learning for a new player, not playing in high tier match making.
And playing huskar vs necrolyte isn't hard, he's not as hard a counter as people think.
Okay they pick necro, i avoid him and get a quick BKB, suddenly i can initiate and blow him up fast.
I've done that MULTIPLE times.
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On September 15 2012 21:14 Canas wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 21:06 MrCon wrote:On September 15 2012 20:55 kdgns wrote:On September 15 2012 20:43 Unleashing wrote:
Randoming is the best way to learn, even IceFrog says that.
It's how i learned how to play DotA, i see nothing wrong with it.
He'll be vs people just as bad as him,so it wont be a problem.
Also HL3 isn't 5 years late, they never promised a release date so it can't be late to begin with. depends on what stage of learning, early on the randoming helps you play with a lot of the heroes and the extra gold helps compensate for bad mechanics, but if you keep doing it, you'll never get good because you miss out on counterpicking and you also never fully develop your fundamentals, because you rely on the extra gold advantage. To get better, you should random then repick to counter your opponents, this way you start thinking about matchups and force yourself into a gold disadvantage so your mechanics gets trained. Ho I didn't meant anything about counterpicking, just that imo randoming isn't the best way to learn the game. (I said terrible, which was a bad choice of word). Just that imo, starting with random from your very first game isn't the best way to do it. Read a few guides, find a hero you'd like to play, pick him for 5-10 games, then do that with another hero. When you'll get comfortable with a hero you'll discover that you'll be able to pay attention to a lot of new things outside your own hero, and that's when you'll learn a lot. And that doesn't happen, or at least a lot less, if you random because you're learning the heroes and not the game (even tho learning the heroes is a big part of learning the game) Then you either continue one hero at a time or you start randoming. My point is start to random for your very first game is not efficient (and sometime not even fun). Well yeah, maybe I was wrong saying you should start randoming after 10-15 games with one hero. It'd probably better to start randoming once you've played 10-15 games on 5-6 different heroes, then to start randoming. Honestly, as long as you've got an alt tab guide ready, randoming shouldn't mess you up too badly unless you get a hero that's harder for new players, like syllabear, visage or invoker or something like that.
Random is good and fun way to learn dota. Back in dota1 is fine but in dota2 you can singlehandedly ruin people game caused by this retarded MM system. Noob randomer on X carry hero, no clue how to use him effectively -> GG.
The thing is not about you are new to X hero, everyone can still play most hero if he had a brain (not defo not in the case of invoker, meepo etc special heroes), the thing is when the oppo play their heroes very decently and you still learning/lack of understanding of your hero = autolose.
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But, he'll be against people just as bad as he is, and mechanics aren't lost because you haven't played a hero before.
I had never touched rubick till i randomed him, i still won hard that game, because my mechanics were fine.
And the person we're talking about here is from LoL so he does have some mechanics to rely on.
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On September 15 2012 21:21 Unleashing wrote:
Counter picking is used in pubs by 'tryhards' yes, but counter aren't needed in pubs because people don't play coordinated at all. in 99% of my games i can random and it'll be fine.
Also i'm pretty sure we were talking about learning for a new player, not playing in high tier match making.
And playing huskar vs necrolyte isn't hard, he's not as hard a counter as people think.
Okay they pick necro, i avoid him and get a quick BKB, suddenly i can initiate and blow him up fast.
I've done that MULTIPLE times.
okok, i got it now, may be i was abit overreacting. Was really really pissed by alot games during the week days because of these overconfident players random but autolose my games.
If you are new to dota, just pick whatever hero you like and random like a boss (although you will have some adjustment to do later on lacking that 200 bonus gold when you didnt random). Enjoy the first 200-400 games. God i missed those early days when i just started dota2, all the crazy stats from dotabuff showed mostly from 5months ago T_T
Hard to make Godlike nowadays.
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On September 15 2012 21:26 BurningSera wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 21:14 Canas wrote:On September 15 2012 21:06 MrCon wrote:On September 15 2012 20:55 kdgns wrote:On September 15 2012 20:43 Unleashing wrote:
Randoming is the best way to learn, even IceFrog says that.
It's how i learned how to play DotA, i see nothing wrong with it.
He'll be vs people just as bad as him,so it wont be a problem.
Also HL3 isn't 5 years late, they never promised a release date so it can't be late to begin with. depends on what stage of learning, early on the randoming helps you play with a lot of the heroes and the extra gold helps compensate for bad mechanics, but if you keep doing it, you'll never get good because you miss out on counterpicking and you also never fully develop your fundamentals, because you rely on the extra gold advantage. To get better, you should random then repick to counter your opponents, this way you start thinking about matchups and force yourself into a gold disadvantage so your mechanics gets trained. Ho I didn't meant anything about counterpicking, just that imo randoming isn't the best way to learn the game. (I said terrible, which was a bad choice of word). Just that imo, starting with random from your very first game isn't the best way to do it. Read a few guides, find a hero you'd like to play, pick him for 5-10 games, then do that with another hero. When you'll get comfortable with a hero you'll discover that you'll be able to pay attention to a lot of new things outside your own hero, and that's when you'll learn a lot. And that doesn't happen, or at least a lot less, if you random because you're learning the heroes and not the game (even tho learning the heroes is a big part of learning the game) Then you either continue one hero at a time or you start randoming. My point is start to random for your very first game is not efficient (and sometime not even fun). Well yeah, maybe I was wrong saying you should start randoming after 10-15 games with one hero. It'd probably better to start randoming once you've played 10-15 games on 5-6 different heroes, then to start randoming. Honestly, as long as you've got an alt tab guide ready, randoming shouldn't mess you up too badly unless you get a hero that's harder for new players, like syllabear, visage or invoker or something like that. Random is good and fun way to learn dota. Back in dota1 is fine but in dota2 you can singlehandedly ruin people game caused by this retarded MM system. Noob randomer on X carry hero, no clue how to use him effectively -> GG. The thing is not about you are new to X hero, everyone can still play most hero if he had a brain (not defo not in the case of invoker, meepo etc special heroes), the thing is when the oppo play their heroes very decently and you still learning/lack of understanding of your hero = autolose.
I would have to disagree here. You don't lose because of the matchmaking system if you random. If you are just starting out in dota you will be in the terrible bracket. Random won't make a difference because EVERYONE doesn't know their heros. EVERYONE is a noob carry, everyone is a noob support.
In my opinion it is better to have a close game/lose as a certain hero than win with it while learning. Honestly, most people will understand the skillset of the hero VERY fast, then it will come down to positioning/spell usage/mana management.
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On September 15 2012 21:34 SirMilford wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 21:26 BurningSera wrote:On September 15 2012 21:14 Canas wrote:On September 15 2012 21:06 MrCon wrote:On September 15 2012 20:55 kdgns wrote:On September 15 2012 20:43 Unleashing wrote:
Randoming is the best way to learn, even IceFrog says that.
It's how i learned how to play DotA, i see nothing wrong with it.
He'll be vs people just as bad as him,so it wont be a problem.
Also HL3 isn't 5 years late, they never promised a release date so it can't be late to begin with. depends on what stage of learning, early on the randoming helps you play with a lot of the heroes and the extra gold helps compensate for bad mechanics, but if you keep doing it, you'll never get good because you miss out on counterpicking and you also never fully develop your fundamentals, because you rely on the extra gold advantage. To get better, you should random then repick to counter your opponents, this way you start thinking about matchups and force yourself into a gold disadvantage so your mechanics gets trained. Ho I didn't meant anything about counterpicking, just that imo randoming isn't the best way to learn the game. (I said terrible, which was a bad choice of word). Just that imo, starting with random from your very first game isn't the best way to do it. Read a few guides, find a hero you'd like to play, pick him for 5-10 games, then do that with another hero. When you'll get comfortable with a hero you'll discover that you'll be able to pay attention to a lot of new things outside your own hero, and that's when you'll learn a lot. And that doesn't happen, or at least a lot less, if you random because you're learning the heroes and not the game (even tho learning the heroes is a big part of learning the game) Then you either continue one hero at a time or you start randoming. My point is start to random for your very first game is not efficient (and sometime not even fun). Well yeah, maybe I was wrong saying you should start randoming after 10-15 games with one hero. It'd probably better to start randoming once you've played 10-15 games on 5-6 different heroes, then to start randoming. Honestly, as long as you've got an alt tab guide ready, randoming shouldn't mess you up too badly unless you get a hero that's harder for new players, like syllabear, visage or invoker or something like that. Random is good and fun way to learn dota. Back in dota1 is fine but in dota2 you can singlehandedly ruin people game caused by this retarded MM system. Noob randomer on X carry hero, no clue how to use him effectively -> GG. The thing is not about you are new to X hero, everyone can still play most hero if he had a brain (not defo not in the case of invoker, meepo etc special heroes), the thing is when the oppo play their heroes very decently and you still learning/lack of understanding of your hero = autolose. I would have to disagree here. You don't lose because of the matchmaking system if you random. If you are just starting out in dota you will be in the terrible bracket. Random won't make a difference because EVERYONE doesn't know their heros. EVERYONE is a noob carry, everyone is a noob support. In my opinion it is better to have a close game/lose as a certain hero than win with it while learning. Honestly, most people will understand the skillset of the hero VERY fast, then it will come down to positioning/spell usage/mana management.
Sorry wasn't aware that people talking about new people joining dota Q_Q
This is my view on new guys just joined dota:
If you are new to dota, just pick whatever hero you like and random like a boss (although you will have some adjustment to do later on lacking that 200 bonus gold when you didnt random). Enjoy the first 200-400 games.
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On September 15 2012 11:46 rabidch wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 11:39 BurningSera wrote:
yes today is better than yesterday. i disagree
Yes today mm god was nice to me. Won 3 games in a row and go sleep the sweetest sleep of my life.
+ Show Spoiler +Before that 3 won games, I played 13games and had 3 won games among them. Is not entirely mm fault, some of that caused by some mate decided to go retard mode and ruin game.
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Randoming is a great way to learn.
After you become familiar with basic mechanics, it forces you to become a much more flexible player and think outside the box. You have to constantly re-evaluate your lineup vs. theirs and determine the most effective skills, items, and playstyle for your particular hero.
Besides, pubs are pubs. If you want to pick/counterpick play captain's mode with a 5 man team or better yet go and scrim.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.cyborgmatt.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Dota2_SS_Base03.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.cyborgmatt.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Dota2_SS_Base02.jpg)
