General Discussion - Page 1016

On September 13 2012 03:55 Mataza wrote:

Omg splash arrows? With Splitshot she is like 5 dragon knight ultis all the time!1!11!oneone

On September 13 2012 03:58 Unleashing wrote:
It's not really relevant but does her shield work with self-damage?
Playdota says nothing about that and it's been too long for me to remember.

On September 13 2012 04:02 N1k0 wrote:

Like what? If you are asking about SR, i think its life removal not self-damage.

On September 13 2012 03:58 TheYango wrote:

How does putting her mid help with any of her issues?

Her laning isn't any better or worse than it needs to be, it's just her lack of midgame presence compared to the carries that are actually relevant. Her gank is almost nonexistent (no hard disables and no single target burst), her pushing is ok, but nothing to write home about (certainly in comparison to the 5 carries that are actually regularly played, her pushing is weaker than all of them), and her teamfight presence is fairly weak. The only thing her kit allows her to do early game is farm, and even with a kit that's solely capable of farming, she doesn't farm as fast as Anti-mage (the weakest midgame presence of the commonly played carries).

Honestly, she shares this problem with other hard carries for good reason: Icefrog probably (and rightfully) wants to reduce game lengths to reasonable lengths compared to the other games in the genre, and for games to reliably finish in under an hour (with 40 minutes probably as the target game length). Naturally, it's hard to make game lengths stay down if 1 hero in every game doesn't become a presence until 30 minutes. As various aspects of the game shift toward the earlier stages of the game, hard carries need to be relevant in that early stage as well, which is why, again, the most popular carries are those with powerful midgame teamfighting ability.

On September 13 2012 03:59 N1k0 wrote:

And magnataur casts empower on her, gg no re.

On September 13 2012 04:07 Unleashing wrote:

Meant with armlet, for example. Or pudge rot, just theoretically.
Or isn't armlet self-damage?

I really forgot all these things, i feel like a noob.

On September 13 2012 03:58 Unleashing wrote:
It's not really relevant but does her shield work with self-damage?
Playdota says nothing about that and it's been too long for me to remember.

On September 13 2012 04:10 Shikyo wrote:
Hmm yeah I guess that really is a hurdle that's almost impossible to overcome... It really sucks that almost all of my favorite heroes are so terrible -.- So what do you think should change for those heroes to get some gameplay? Should they be made so that they come online slightly earlier but end up being slightly weaker later on? Or is it all right if they're only viable as very situational niche picks? Speaking of which, I really wonder when the next DotA patch is coming out. The gameplay seems really nice and varied overall right now but I don't think that the same thing can be said about picks... I wonder what they're going to change.

On September 13 2012 04:21 crms wrote:
Can someone explain to me these 'pro' Naga Siren builds? Especially the chinese who build like linkens and radiance as first two items. It honestly seems completely awful.

Why don't more people build her aggressive and take advantage of her unstoppable ult and midgame presence? Why can't she run mid, bottle, arcanes, diffusal first, heart/manta, heart/manta and constantly push towers when siren is off cooldown? My friend builds naga this way in pubs (hurp derp I know pubs are shit compared to pro level even in 'very high' bracket) but the theorhetical gameplay seems the same. He ganks or pushes towers every siren cd because it's basically no risk. The only thing you possibly lose out on is some farm in lane. If the gank is successful you get a big gank and push tower. If gank is failing you ult and escape. We win like 80%+ of our games when he mid nagas with this aggressive build.

I understand the radiance allows you to farm faster and can give more lane control mid/late but it always delays your real potential for so long. I don't get linkens either. I know she has mana issues but those are pretty much solved with mana boots. I just hate seeing this weak ass pseudo-carry naga that seems to be exactly how all chinese play her. It seems way less beneficial and we saw countless naga's lose with these linken first/second builds because they just didn't do anything.

tl;dr why isn't aggressive midgame naga ever played? Why would you go linkens over diffusal first, why would you go linkens after radiance instead of diffusal or manta?

On September 13 2012 04:23 Ramong wrote:
because there are better carries than naga.

She was used for her teamfight capability together with tide and darkseer etc.

Morph was used for the dmg

On September 13 2012 04:28 Kipsate wrote:
Linkens allows her to get her ultimate off in virtually every situation.

On September 13 2012 04:33 Wysp wrote:
linkens and radiance are farming items. its usually one or the other for naga. Linkens allows riptide spam while making you bigger overall (and lets you get boots like treads over tranquil or mana) while radiance will let you clear jungle and lanes at the same time with just one riptide use. Getting both seems a tad overkill as if you have radiance you're gonna want a heart right away to give your burn illusions staying power and if you have a linkens I see manta style as the more tempting item as you'll have the mana to sustain farm and its use.

Overall though I think naga just wants to have big fat illusions that can kill creep waves and jungle. She turtles like a beast with either item and hp on top. I used to be a huge fan of radiance tranquils on her but I also love the linkens treads. Radiance for canceling big dagger heroes is still a go to for sure but linkens is definitely more flexible for the next item choice.