EPTGeneral Discussion - Page 1015
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Implenia
Austria3846 Posts
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r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
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Yoshi-
Germany10227 Posts
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volders
Australia26 Posts
You then ward lanes like a bitch and basically let these heroes farm. If they go for big ganks on one of your 3 semi-carries, you pull back and delay as long as possible at tower. If they go for small ganks, your 2 supports TP in and countergank, or you just avoid with good warding. Basically the idea is that no matter what your opponents do, at least 2 of your semi-carries will get quite farmed. This resulted in very comfortable, slow, steady wins for the Chinese at the tournament. And also made for some of the most boring games in DotA history. I specifically remember a game that had <8 kills at the 40 minute mark. This is really the only time I remember Medusa being viable in the competitive scene. Unless some kind of similar strategy resurfaces this I really cant see her being viable. Especially considering in those days there were no soul rings, mana boots, pipes and multiple TPs didn't slow down TP speed (great for protecting). | ||
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Wrongspeedy
United States1655 Posts
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Implenia
Austria3846 Posts
Streams: http://www.twitch.tv/versuta - Russian http://www.twitch.tv/ggnetsheever - English http://www.twitch.tv/antenadota - Spanish http://www.twitch.tv/arenafigueiredo - Portugese | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On September 13 2012 02:11 volders wrote: Although I wasn't really into the comp scene in in late 2010, most of 2011 the only strats I remember Medusa being a part of where the Chinese zone control they brought to SMM (2010) I think. The basis of this strat was to pick 3 semi-carries with decent lane control and preferably an AoE nuke, for example Medusa, SF, PotM. They take one lane each, then you pick 2 support heroes, for example Tide, VS. You then ward lanes like a bitch and basically let these heroes farm. If they go for big ganks on one of your 3 semi-carries, you pull back and delay as long as possible at tower. If they go for small ganks, your 2 supports TP in and countergank, or you just avoid with good warding. Basically the idea is that no matter what your opponents do, at least 2 of your semi-carries will get quite farmed. This resulted in very comfortable, slow, steady wins for the Chinese at the tournament. And also made for some of the most boring games in DotA history. I specifically remember a game that had <8 kills at the 40 minute mark. This is really the only time I remember Medusa being viable in the competitive scene. Unless some kind of similar strategy resurfaces this I really cant see her being viable. Especially considering in those days there were no soul rings, mana boots, pipes and multiple TPs didn't slow down TP speed (great for protecting). TPs were slowed down when Medusa really came into vogue. It didn't matter too much. CM and VS were stronger heroes then and laning/picks were a lot more rigid with the old melee regen setups, no reliable gold, no smokes, hardly any of those items which augment pushing or ganking heroes, and more than a few heroes that didn't exist or weren't strong enough then that could breakdown the metagame. The common mid lane heroes were weaker both at laning and ganking than now. SMM 2010 didn't have long games. They were all short due to the Chinese domination. The longest game was against Nv.Int a little over 40 minutes... Reason Medusa isn't used is because she takes forever for the farm to payoff, and once you're there you're probably still at a split push disadvantage against the today's hard carries like AM and Morphling. | ||
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Soap
Brazil1546 Posts
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Shai
Canada806 Posts
On September 13 2012 02:11 volders wrote: Although I wasn't really into the comp scene in in late 2010, most of 2011 the only strats I remember Medusa being a part of where the Chinese zone control they brought to SMM (2010) I think. The basis of this strat was to pick 3 semi-carries with decent lane control and preferably an AoE nuke, for example Medusa, SF, PotM. They take one lane each, then you pick 2 support heroes, for example Tide, VS. You then ward lanes like a bitch and basically let these heroes farm. If they go for big ganks on one of your 3 semi-carries, you pull back and delay as long as possible at tower. If they go for small ganks, your 2 supports TP in and countergank, or you just avoid with good warding. Basically the idea is that no matter what your opponents do, at least 2 of your semi-carries will get quite farmed. This resulted in very comfortable, slow, steady wins for the Chinese at the tournament. And also made for some of the most boring games in DotA history. I specifically remember a game that had <8 kills at the 40 minute mark. This is really the only time I remember Medusa being viable in the competitive scene. Unless some kind of similar strategy resurfaces this I really cant see her being viable. Especially considering in those days there were no soul rings, mana boots, pipes and multiple TPs didn't slow down TP speed (great for protecting). Patch 6.69c was released on 11/06/2010, and for the entirety of that patch Medusa was the top-played carry by the Chinese. She was banned or picked in every game, and it lasted quite a while. You are right about there being major differences between then and now, but dusa could be part of a tri-lane. We'll see. | ||
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Implenia
Austria3846 Posts
On September 13 2012 02:15 Implenia wrote: Quantic vs CNB coming up in 45 minutes (4pl finals for 400 euros) Streams: http://www.twitch.tv/versuta - Russian http://www.twitch.tv/ggnetsheever - English http://www.twitch.tv/antenadota - Spanish http://www.twitch.tv/arenafigueiredo - Portugese Is live now. | ||
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Narcind
Sweden2489 Posts
On September 13 2012 02:01 Implenia wrote: For the lazy people: http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/Dendi Dendi is so good he gets every cs from a creepwave with sandstorm while 2 enemy heroes are present in the lane | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
Also she indeed could be a part of a trilane, preferably one that's designed to be up against the enemy's hardcarry trilane. Her lane control would be very beneficial in that situation. | ||
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34510 Posts
On September 13 2012 02:52 Soap wrote: Holy shit, I'm used to watch TL inhouses and just tuned into Dendi's stream, first I thought "why is it playing a highlight clip on 2x speed" then my jaw hit the floor. Only one other game made me feel like that. I'm so happy to see impressive gameplay on TL again. Yo soap, have you been playing with us? What's your nick? | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On September 13 2012 03:28 Shikyo wrote: An idea of mine though isn't to play medusa as the hard carry but the secondary carry, who does lane control and actually can help with pushing early on... Say solo mid along with a hard carry on the easy lane or something. Perhaps she could improvise with the item build a little too ... No. Historically mid solos are good gankers or early-mid map controllers, if they aren't hard carry. Medusa doesn't offer either option, her teamfight is weak early-mid, and she is not an optimal hard carry atm. Basically she is a walking tank in that phase of the game and a lot of heroes do that job better than her anyway. | ||
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Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
On September 13 2012 03:28 Shikyo wrote: An idea of mine though isn't to play medusa as the hard carry but the secondary carry, who does lane control and actually can help with pushing early on... Say solo mid along with a hard carry on the easy lane or something. Perhaps she could improvise with the item build a little too ... Also she indeed could be a part of a trilane, preferably one that's designed to be up against the enemy's hardcarry trilane. Her lane control would be very beneficial in that situation. It's a hero that needs huge amounts of farm to reach their true potential. Her midgame isn't very strong, sure snake is decent but it's not strong. And her shield isn't good without items either and split shot quite obviously isn't without items either, and her ulti doesn't do much for mid-game ganks either. She scales really really well with items, thus the hard carry part. Second position carries like for example CK have a lot of good things in the midgame: A good stun. Tons of mobility. And a gap closer. | ||
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Soap
Brazil1546 Posts
On September 13 2012 03:33 Firebolt145 wrote: Yo soap, have you been playing with us? What's your nick? Nope, I don't have the game, just have been watching since TI2. | ||
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N1k0
Uruguay1075 Posts
On September 13 2012 03:36 Unleashing wrote: It's a hero that needs huge amounts of farm to reach their true potential. Her midgame isn't very strong, sure snake is decent but it's not strong. And her shield isn't good without items either and split shot quite obviously isn't without items either, and her ulti doesn't do much for mid-game ganks either. She scales really really well with items, thus the hard carry part. Second position carries like for example CK have a lot of good things in the midgame: A good stun. Tons of mobility. And a gap closer. But, what if you get a bf on her!?!?!! | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
Omg splash arrows? With Splitshot she is like 5 dragon knight ultis all the time!1!11!oneone Seriously though, no. She is slow and brings nothing to teamfights. Battlefury helps with neither. If she were strength hero, Mordiggian could boost her damage very cost effectively(she isn´t strength and probably won´t ever be). Then she probably would still be worse than a handful other heroes. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On September 13 2012 03:28 Shikyo wrote: An idea of mine though isn't to play medusa as the hard carry but the secondary carry, who does lane control and actually can help with pushing early on... Say solo mid along with a hard carry on the easy lane or something. Perhaps she could improvise with the item build a little too ... Also she indeed could be a part of a trilane, preferably one that's designed to be up against the enemy's hardcarry trilane. Her lane control would be very beneficial in that situation. How does putting her mid help with any of her issues? Her laning isn't any better or worse than it needs to be, it's just her lack of midgame presence compared to the carries that are actually relevant. Her gank is almost nonexistent (no hard disables and no single target burst), her pushing is ok, but nothing to write home about (certainly in comparison to the 5 carries that are actually regularly played, her pushing is weaker than all of them), and her teamfight presence is fairly weak. The only thing her kit allows her to do early game is farm, and even with a kit that's solely capable of farming, she doesn't farm as fast as Anti-mage (the weakest midgame presence of the commonly played carries). Honestly, she shares this problem with other hard carries for good reason: Icefrog probably (and rightfully) wants to reduce game lengths to reasonable lengths compared to the other games in the genre, and for games to reliably finish in under an hour (with 40 minutes probably as the target game length). Naturally, it's hard to make game lengths stay down if 1 hero in every game doesn't become a presence until 30 minutes. As various aspects of the game shift toward the earlier stages of the game, hard carries need to be relevant in that early stage as well, which is why, again, the most popular carries are those with powerful midgame teamfighting ability. | ||
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Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
Playdota says nothing about that and it's been too long for me to remember. | ||
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