• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 18:20
CEST 00:20
KST 07:20
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202552RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams7Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4
StarCraft 2
General
The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing RSL Season 1 - Final Week
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams BW General Discussion [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Ginuda's JaeDong Interview Series
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Post Pic of your Favorite Food! Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 725 users

Best starcraft player of all time? - Page 8

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Prev 1 6 7 8 9 Next All
tobi9999
Profile Joined April 2009
United States1966 Posts
June 30 2009 02:31 GMT
#141
I think, that it is stupid trying to compare the old school players to Bisu/Jaedong/Flash.

Back in the day of the old school players, StarCraft was a completely different game.(You don't see 3x bunker rush, 2gate openings, early lurker/ling)

Nowadays, starcraft is so advanced that NO MATTER WHAT STRATEGY YOU USE, the pure mechanics of the players Bisu/Jaedong/Flash will be too overwhelming.

Since starcraft back in the old school players day, and starcraft nowdays is so different, there cannot be a real decision.
"tobi is ur iq 9999? cuz i think it might be u so smart wowowow." -Artosis
Gryffindor_us
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
United States5606 Posts
June 30 2009 02:33 GMT
#142
On June 30 2009 10:11 lingallin wrote:

For you best means most accomplished, that's not what it means for everyone.



That's fine but the problem is that other than statistics or accomplishments then how do you quantify the greatness of a player. Because if you're arguing solely on style/influence then you're going to tread into the territory of nearly pure opinion. I do agree though that these topics are futile.

On June 30 2009 10:10 Jayme wrote:

Yea but you're talking about medals and not pure skill here.

That's why this poll fails.

If we're talking about just skill even Bonjwa Nada would have an extraordinarily hard time dealing with Jaedong. He'd probably get eaten alive really seeing as he lost constantly against Savior and Jaedong's mechanical skills far and away surpass that of Savior.


The problem is that trying to compare eras is impossible (especially with the ridiculous increase in the prominence of teamleague). Hell, I'm sure I've tried to justify it in the past but it's not possible. If we were to take the people in this poll and have them all start at the beginning at the same age then we might get a chance to see that played out but that's impossible. Also, as KP_Collector pointed out if we use the criteria that seems to be driving Jaedong's success in this poll then we're going to have a new best player every once in a while and that seems very shallow. What if Effort replaces Jaedong and starts winning everything left and right? Does Jaedong still hold up? It starts to get really tricky when you have to incorporate time into the evaluation. What is greater: wholly dominating for a short period of time or having bursts of dominance over a 7 year period? Oh well.

The primary reason I posted was to remind people who seem to forget easily or who weren't there for it that NaDa, iloveoov etc.. exhibited the same dominance you see in Bisu, Flash, and Jaedong and they have the medals. When BW finally ends maybe we can revisit this topic with much more clarity. Probably though people will still auto-vote BoxeR T_T.
Remember 11-12-04. 이윤열 ~. |||| ZerO, IriS, JangBi, Stork, BackHo! Mah Jae Yoon is no longer a feared entity.
Dice
Profile Joined April 2009
Korea (South)926 Posts
June 30 2009 02:35 GMT
#143
On June 30 2009 09:49 Count9 wrote:
Can't compare eras /sigh

But since we're going to anyways... Bisu > JD > Flash > Other terrans > Bisu, they are the best of all time, no one from the past can beat them. I say Bisu is better than JD simply cause he got 3 MSLs, I dunno why that's more important than JD's SL wins, but I just think it is.

You're crazy if you think that 3 MSLs > 2 OSLs + 1 MSL. I'm sure alot of people can disagree with you on this one.
Ruff
Profile Joined August 2006
Kazakhstan179 Posts
June 30 2009 02:36 GMT
#144
Every player knows this is NaDa!

3 MSL + 3 OSL = best sc player of all time
"Keep on dreaming, boy, cause someday you will shine" (Ogogo).
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
June 30 2009 02:36 GMT
#145
Ah wtf why is there another poll like this already?
beep boop
iloveHieu
Profile Joined November 2007
United States1919 Posts
June 30 2009 02:38 GMT
#146
Bisu should get more votes xD
Xellos <3
Ruff
Profile Joined August 2006
Kazakhstan179 Posts
June 30 2009 02:38 GMT
#147
NaDa 3rd? OMG crazy newcomers! NaDa must be 1st!
"Keep on dreaming, boy, cause someday you will shine" (Ogogo).
Deleted User 31060
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
3788 Posts
June 30 2009 02:39 GMT
#148
unless jaedong breaks his arm and quits starcraft forever tomorrow or goes into a horrible Frozean-like slump he's going to be hands down the greatest soon, maybe even after this Starleague season
Peaked at C- on ICCUP and proud of it! @Sunyveil
s_side
Profile Joined May 2009
United States700 Posts
June 30 2009 02:41 GMT
#149
1. Nada (this cannot be debated)

2. Jooooooooolie

3. TBD
Musoeun
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States4324 Posts
June 30 2009 02:42 GMT
#150
NaDa = most medals (so far).
Jaedong = most dominating ever when he's in form (Flash is a close second).
Boxer = granddaddy of them all.

Then you get people like oov, Yellow, or Bisu who revolutionized the game, or a race, or at least a matchup... I go with NaDa though. I fully expect Jaedong to equal his medal count at some point, but for now, for me, success = greatness.
Don't Shoot the Penguins. | Dance, 성은, dance! | Killer FanKlub | Action sucks. | Storm Terran hwaiting.
Ancestral
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States3230 Posts
June 30 2009 02:46 GMT
#151
People are voting for different things because they're using different criteria. Jaedong, Bisu, or Flash should be the "most skilled." NaDa, ilovoov, or sAviOr should be "best." BoxeR should be "greatest."

And of course even what I wrote can easily be refuted because those words don't even have specific enough definitions.
The Nature and purpose of the martial way are universal; all selfish desires must be roasted in the tempering fires of hard training. - Masutatsu Oyama
Neptuneajax
Profile Joined April 2009
Australia206 Posts
June 30 2009 02:47 GMT
#152
yes bisu/jaedong/flash probably have the best mechanics and the ability to beat anyone of Nada/Boxer/OOV in their prime. But how did they get those mechanics and skill? By having truely GREAT players precede them and flesh out the game into what it is today. Without Boxer/Nada/Savior/OOV, Bisu/jaedong/Flash would not be what they are today. Voted boxer
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8552 Posts
June 30 2009 02:52 GMT
#153
This is eerily similar to who is the Great Of All Time (GOAT) in tennis.
Jaedong
Spanxxx
Profile Joined February 2009
United States408 Posts
June 30 2009 03:09 GMT
#154
so far JD is #1 statistically speaking. some of my favorites are savior, bisu and boxer though.
If people arent trying to pull you down, you arent climbing high enough.
terr13
Profile Joined April 2007
United States298 Posts
June 30 2009 03:13 GMT
#155
By who is the best to play ever regardless of the time period, it's probably Jaedong.
By who is the most successful, and most dominating during their era, probably NaDa. No one can match his wins and his 7 year streak of being in the top 30.
Count9
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
China10928 Posts
June 30 2009 03:13 GMT
#156
On June 30 2009 12:09 Spanxxx wrote:
so far JD is #1 statistically speaking. some of my favorites are savior, bisu and boxer though.

What stats?
Mortality
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States4790 Posts
June 30 2009 03:20 GMT
#157
How is JD ahead of Nada, Savior and Oov?

Or are people basing this on absolute skill (in which case, the best player of today -- probably either JD or Bisu -- is "best all time")?
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature
LosingID8
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
CA10828 Posts
June 30 2009 03:32 GMT
#158
On June 30 2009 10:19 Try wrote:
Obviously Boxer, he was dominant for a longer period of time than anyone else, and mattered more to the foundation and continuation of esports. No-one on the list even comes close to what Boxer has done for the professional starcraft scene or the length of time for which he was dominant. From 2001 all the way until alittle past the time he joined ACE, Boxer was a beast. Six years he was near the top. You can say that for no one else.

nada?
ModeratorResident K-POP Elitist
FragKrag
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States11552 Posts
June 30 2009 03:33 GMT
#159
How the hell is JD in #2? NaDa, Savior, oov are all much more deserving. I mean what they did speaks for itself.
*TL CJ Entusman #40* "like scissors does anything to paper except MAKE IT MORE NUMEROUS" -paper
motbob
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States12546 Posts
June 30 2009 03:36 GMT
#160
Boxer: " Lee Jae Dong is the best player. He`s all about the micro; he`s the player which has the most amazing control"
ModeratorGood content always wins.
Prev 1 6 7 8 9 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 12h 41m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nathanias 207
StarCraft: Brood War
ivOry 10
Dota 2
monkeys_forever824
League of Legends
Dendi971
syndereN149
Counter-Strike
Fnx 1585
Stewie2K1044
Super Smash Bros
Liquid`Ken41
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu564
Other Games
summit1g7540
FrodaN3245
tarik_tv2119
C9.Mang0198
PPMD37
ViBE21
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 58
• davetesta53
• musti20045 34
• Kozan
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 52
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• TFBlade426
Other Games
• imaqtpie1616
• Shiphtur445
Upcoming Events
Esports World Cup
12h 41m
Serral vs Cure
Solar vs Classic
OSC
15h 41m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 11h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 15h
CSO Cup
1d 17h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 19h
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.