EPTBest starcraft player of all time? - Page 7
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SilverSkyLark
Philippines8437 Posts
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Weryeery
288 Posts
He is the best player in the period where the skill level is the highest | ||
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Jayme
United States5866 Posts
On June 30 2009 09:44 Gryffindor_us wrote: Important distinction there. If you voted for Jaedong then you weren't around for iloveoov and NaDa before him (and after him). Honestly I find it hard to even think of including anyone but NaDa, iloveoov and possibly (not at the rate he's going though) Savior. NaDa has been in 6 MSL finals and 4 OSL finals. He is the only player to win all 3 leagues in a season (admittedly GHEMTV went out shortly after but there weren't very many times afterwards when a player was in a position to do that anyway). He has several invite tournament wins. NaDa nearly had another grand slam when he won IOPS OSL because he got 1st in IOPS OSL, 2nd in YTGK MSL and 3rd in KT-KTF league. He was that close. Then you have iloveoov (a player I despise by the way) that combined statistical dominance with an impressive number of tournament wins. 3 MSL wins, and 2 OSL wins combined with some crazy streaks. When Jaedong/Bisu/Flash have won 3 MSL, 3 OSL, several other tournaments and been in numerous finals appearances then we can START to talk about including them in this discussion. Yea but you're talking about medals and not pure skill here. That's why this poll fails. If we're talking about just skill even Bonjwa Nada would have an extraordinarily hard time dealing with Jaedong. He'd probably get eaten alive really seeing as he lost constantly against Savior and Jaedong's mechanical skills far and away surpass that of Savior. | ||
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sprawlers
Norway439 Posts
On June 30 2009 06:52 crucifix wrote: Could Your JD and Bisu be able to beat Boxer/NaDa/rA in a Bo5, let's say 2 years ago? No. Yes, jaedong was fully capable of beating all those players in a BO5 2 years ago, none of them except nada were really very good then. Maybe bisu as well for what i know. Does it matter? No. The problem with best of all time, is that whoever is currently best is very likely the best of all time, as the level of play is continually improving. Then it's up to each and everyone what they mean with best. This thread has been made a hundred times over, It's always the same. Most accomplished. Nada Most dominating. Oov Autovote, influential. Boxer Best. Whoever is currently dominating, Jaedong or Bisu at the moment. On June 30 2009 09:44 Gryffindor_us wrote: Important distinction there. If you voted for Jaedong then you weren't around for iloveoov and NaDa before him (and after him). Honestly I find it hard to even think of including anyone but NaDa, iloveoov and possibly (not at the rate he's going though) Savior. NaDa has been in 6 MSL finals and 4 OSL finals. He is the only player to win all 3 leagues in a season (admittedly GHEMTV went out shortly after but there weren't very many times afterwards when a player was in a position to do that anyway). He has several invite tournament wins. NaDa nearly had another grand slam when he won IOPS OSL because he got 1st in IOPS OSL, 2nd in YTGK MSL and 3rd in KT-KTF league. He was that close. Then you have iloveoov (a player I despise by the way) that combined statistical dominance with an impressive number of tournament wins. 3 MSL wins, and 2 OSL wins combined with some crazy streaks. When Jaedong/Bisu/Flash have won 3 MSL, 3 OSL, several other tournaments and been in numerous finals appearances then we can START to talk about including them in this discussion. For you best means most accomplished, that's not what it means for everyone. On June 30 2009 09:49 Count9 wrote: Can't compare eras /sigh But since we're going to anyways... Bisu > JD > Flash > Other terrans > Bisu, they are the best of all time, no one from the past can beat them. I say Bisu is better than JD simply cause he got 3 MSLs, I dunno why that's more important than JD's SL wins, but I just think it is. MSL is by koreans considered the least important starleague, so that argument makes no sense whatsoever. | ||
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Mastermind
Canada7096 Posts
On June 30 2009 05:57 GGQ wrote: I love Bisu, but anyone who doesn't vote NaDa for this is just wrong. I have to agree with this. | ||
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ambit!ous1
United States3662 Posts
Nada Nada Nada but i accidently voted Bisu LOL | ||
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Sosha
United States749 Posts
in which case it's pretty self-explantatory. Protoss  Bisu[Shield] - This is obvious, what w/ his ELO rating, his vast accomplishments and the fact that he's spear-headed the 6 Dragons, being the most successful of them. Terran  BoxeR - This is more earned than anything. He's definately one of the most accomplished and popular players to ever grace BW - in fact, he's mainly responsible for it's popularity and pro-gaming becoming what it is. The man's an icon. Period. Not to mention he's been bonjwa material.. winning many starleagues and tournaments for years.. Zerg This one is totally a toss up.  sAviOr / Jaedong - I, personally, would prolly side w/ Jaedong on this subject. I'll give Savior credit, I remmeber his long run as Maestro of Destruction - owning up the whole BW scene, revolutionizing Zerg as everyone knows them - adding a new level of multitasking and unit mixture, using every single little unit to it's fullest. However, results can't lie, and Savior has seemingly fallen off from his throne. Jaedong, on the other hand, has results totally on his side. He's taken what Saviors brought about, and totally capitilized on it and w/ todays new mechanics and obviously a strong sense of determination and dedication - has totally blown away every other Zerg in the field. Take it from me, I hate Zerg but i've seen Jaedong play.. his control, his game sense.. needless to say.. its simply amazing Most recent display of Jaedongs dominance would be Jaedong v Violet @ Proleague, Heartbreak ridge. Total perfect control, gaining advantage w/ small group of lings, flawless control w/ mutas and finishing w/ an insane amount of hydras (considering how set-back violet was by the mutas) My fav. player of all time though. Always and forever. Hero Protoss [Oops]ReachI totally remember Sky OGN finals Reach v Boxer in which reach 3-1'd.. instant celebrity. gL | ||
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Try
United States1293 Posts
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MutaDoom
Canada1163 Posts
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Mykill
Canada3402 Posts
so are almost all the people on the list. however Boxer was the first so Boxer it is! | ||
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OnceKing
United States939 Posts
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rushz0rz
Canada5300 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + GiYoM, forever. | ||
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LucasWoJ
United States936 Posts
(Back to being fanboyish) In addition to reversing map imbalances, Jaedong seems to defy logical build order losses. For example, there's no way a zerg going 12 hatch against a proxy 9/9 gate should win especially if he sends his first six zerglings away. Jaedong's game against Lucifer sometime last year on Colosseum left me wondering whether anyone else could have managed that, and whether anyone, even in the future, could display such brilliance. Jaedong is receiving such a large percentage of the vote because the vote almost implies his name as the "correct" answer, if you will. He's number #1 in KESPA and if you assume, and you must, that the level of the average progamer has increased as a function of how long the game's been around, then you cannot vote against him (or Bisu) unless you adopt a different definition of what the poll is asking. | ||
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konadora
Singapore66160 Posts
And I chose Jaedong | ||
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skronch
United States2717 Posts
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tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
The Best Player of all time is Jaedong. This is because he is the best player around right now, and the game is more complex and faster and stronger than it was at any point before. Jaedong is the best player around right now by almost every metric. I really don't think you can argue this. The Greatest Player of all time is more difficult to decide. I'd consider the following: The 2300 Club; Top 5 Peak ELO's Bisu SKT 2352 Jaedong OZ 2343 iloveoov SKT 2329 Flash KT 2322 sAviOr CJ 2301- and other notables; NaDa FOX 2285 (7th)BoxeR SKT 2224 (Way back)That provides a pretty definitive list. In my mind, Flash is the least deserving of these seven, as he hasn't been as dominant for as long as the other players on this list. I also think Bisu falls short; Bisu is edged by JD in the Post-sAviOr era of starcraft. The final five are difficult to call; here's my reasoning... 5. From the early days of starcraft, BoxeR is the founding-father, the emperor of starcraft, the most popular player ever, but he is not the best. He was a unique talent who exploited and developed much of what starcraft is today, but I can't regard a player from the "dead-ball" era of starcraft (baseball analogy) as the greatest starcraft player ever. 4. The protogé of BoxeR, iloveoov had a period of dominance roughly defined as 2004-2005, and has continued to be an innovator on the sidelines of SKT to the present. Three time MSL winner, two time OSL winner. I can't say anything negative about oov, except that he was never quite as dominant as-3. sAviOr is the player that starcraft history ought to be grouped around. I was thinking of dropping him at #1 for solely this reason. sAviOr's stretch of dominance; (2006 pretty much) was so convincing that the very first edition of the power rankings justified his top placement with; "Don't even try to argue this one". Even for a while after the seminal moment in his career, (and starcraft's existance) his 0-3 loss to Bisu in the MSL finals, he was still considered the player to beat. There is a pre-sAviOr era to starcraft, where the game was often defined by micro-tricks, macro was a rare-gift, possessed by the few, and where the game grew as players developed techniques and tactics. Then there is a post-sAviOr era where micro has become standardized, and where macro-bots proliferate, and where the game has grown in depth and strategy. The only thing holding MJY back is that his reign of terror was short, he didn't control that game quite long enough for my purposes. 2. This is where Jaedong falls. In a time where he may share the spotlight with Bisu, Flash, fantasy, EffOrt, or any host of other players, it's worth nothing that JD holds an unbelievable 69.10% winning percentage; an absolutely insane number for a player with nearly 350 games played. This is the highest all time. (Pretty sure.) His ZvZ dominance has never been equaled. If you ask this question again in a year; I anticipated Jaedong being in the top position, but right now, that belongs to...1. NaDa. If you made it this far, well done. The more I look at it, the more I felt NaDa deserved the top spot. He won his first tournament in 2002. The last tournament he won was in 2007. As late as this April, NaDa was 10th on the TL power rankings. He maintained his spot in the top 30 of the (admittedly slow-changing) KeSPA rankings for 87 months. No one is even close to this. Three time winner of the OSL, three time winner of the MSL. He holds the all-time record for wins, losses, and games played. He was the first player to really achieve anywhere near modern levels of macro. His vultures became a legend. NaDa became a legend. There's just too much to point to NaDA as being the greatest starcraft player of all time. | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On June 30 2009 05:29 B1nary wrote: Yeah, these polls are always more "who has the biggest fanboy base". But honestly, fanboy-ism aside, I think Nada is the best answer. He has the most league titles. He was on the Kespa top 30 list for 87(?) months. And he's still quite a bit better right now than the other oldies like Boxer (sorry) and Yellow who couldn't keep up with modern play. lol @ Stork being one of the options ^^ Are you kidding me? If Flash is an option then Stork is definitely one. | ||
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Inzek
Chile802 Posts
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3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
If you define best Starcraft player of all time by the player's success, Nada, Oov, Boxer, Julyzerg, Savior, Bisu would top the list. Nada/Oov/Savior/Bisu all have 3 MSLs, and Nada/July both have 3 OSLs. Nada/Oov/Savior were all bonjwas and were considered to be almost invincible during their peaks. If you define best Starcraft player of all time by the player's skill, Jaedong/Bisu of 2009 would easily be the top 2 choices. Their mechanical skill is unsurpassed by anybody before. If you take Jaedong right now, send him back in a time machine to 2005, he would easily rape Nada/Oov. His micro, mechanics, and timing are just too good. The strategy employed by modern players is far superior to the strategies used by players from more than 3 years ago. | ||
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AzureEye
United States1360 Posts
On June 30 2009 10:58 skronch wrote: wow, JD is surprisingly close to the boxer autovote threshold O.o I'm surprised too. Boxer always wins these kind of polls | ||
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