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Active: 10204 users

Has flash solved TvZ?

Forum Index > Closed
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1 2 Next All
cas
Profile Joined January 2008
Mexico52 Posts
March 03 2009 06:51 GMT
#1
Flash has not lost at TvZ on a bio-optimal map (128x, <= 4players, 5 matrix choke, non-retarded layout) since like November, going 18-0 or something equally ridiculous.

Here are the requirements: 280 apm broken down into 80 macro and 200 micro, all of which are fully needed for a quality implementation of SK should it come to that. Adaptability for when the improbable but inevitable happens. Lose nothing unnecessarily. Chinese triangles.

Here is the build: B, C (plant on site), bunk if needed, B, R, acad, ebay, and then develop in a linear fashion up to facility with no dropship. If zerg goes 3 bases, go SK, delaying 2nd ebay and/or irrad if needed to comfortably exceed the zerg's hive output with raw vessel count - losing the first vessel and then having 3 of them vs 4 defilers is a bad thing. If zerg goes 3 base lurker in an attempt to stall, get two tanks and come out and win, only slower. If zerg goes 4 bases, move out with 3T 1V and triangle and win. If zerg 2hatches, deal with it.

Why the build dominates: Twin scanners allow for a perfect read nullifying any direct mutabal variant. You have a hard counter for 4 base zerg (build order win). If the zerg goes 3 bases, you will eventually win via SK. Power and tech = stage and advance with twin vessels. Power and mass = 2 tanks if lurker else stage and advance on his 3rd. Mass and tech = stage and advance on his main with triangle and defiler snipe. If the zerg goes 2 bases, no amount of mechanics should allow him to overpower you without control errors on your part.

Here are the zerg options. I will disregard obvious junk builds (3 base hydra/lurker, retard drop variants etc.):

9 pool burrow rush to delay CC plant and subsequent 2nd scanner -> 2 hatch 1.05 lurker ling. Cut the scouting scvs with rapidity (which will be almost impossible), and you better not be on SinChup if you try this. Attack the front. GL.

10 speedling runby. The delayed hive puts zerg in a position where they are faced with, at best, vessel domination over hive. 4 base is an autoloss, in an even more brutal fashion than normally. More mutas are met with even more turrets and rapidly upgraded marines and the zerg is left with, again, vessel domination over hive. Kill 4 workers or gg.

1.05 2 hatch speedling -> mutabal with grades. Luxury played this recently with good results (in relative terms). The order shows promise, except for on maps like SinChup where it's just impossible to win. Z has to kill the initial scouting scv quickly and then cut the next one enroute. With perfect control it's arguable that this is a strong order, possibly the only order, as the zerg can reduce the Terran to his main as the minerals are not available for a 2nd bunker by default, and on a map like Andro, if the Z can dramatically reduce marine count he has the option to mutaling allin to siege the barracks directly, or to drone and take a 3rd and lurker siege. This would force T to choose between an allin 2nd wave or to develop and take his chances vs guards with merely competitive vessel numbers.

Old school JulyZerg. See above, but easier.

3 hatch mutabal -> guards. See the Mah replay.

5pool. Use it.
GTR
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
51623 Posts
March 03 2009 06:55 GMT
#2
is this a joke or something.

i believe bisu solved pvz two years ago to this date, did you know that?
Commentator
Aurious
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Canada1772 Posts
March 03 2009 06:56 GMT
#3
Considering he has only played 12 TvZ's since November...
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
March 03 2009 06:57 GMT
#4
lol
shut up
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
Last Romantic
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States20665 Posts
March 03 2009 06:59 GMT
#5
This reminds me of NaDa's "Perfect TvZ". Invincible SKTerran.

Then he lost to sAviOr on RoV.
ㅋㄲㅈㅁ
CDRdude
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States5625 Posts
March 03 2009 07:00 GMT
#6
On March 03 2009 15:51 cas wrote:
Flash has not lost at TvZ on a bio-optimal map (128x, <= 4players, 5 matrix choke, non-retarded layout) since like November, going 18-0 or something equally ridiculous.

So you're the sole person who decides what a bio-optimal map is? Generalizing a bio map that much is stupid, especially given the "non-retarted" qualification which is blatantly subjective. You have played starcraft before, right?
Force staff is the best item in the game.
Ilikestarcraft
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Korea (South)17743 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-03 07:05:50
March 03 2009 07:01 GMT
#7
80 macro 200 micro
ils
"Nana is a goddess. Or at very least, Nana is my goddess." - KazeHydra
cas
Profile Joined January 2008
Mexico52 Posts
March 03 2009 07:06 GMT
#8
here's how games have gone over the duration:

zergs 4 base. their nats are gone before their defilers finish. flash enthusiastically hi5s his team.

zergs 3 base lurker. flash wins slower and then takes a drink of his brown liquid.

zergs 3 base upgrade stuff. see above, but he looks more bored than usual. he has moved on to pink liquid.

zergs try to ling him in a variety of ways. he just lifts and does his thing. he looks bored.

zergs try to ling him and follow with muta or lurker. see above, but the games are more fun. he has moved on to clear liquid, maybe club sodas? he starts to hold up a sign to the camera. it says "zerg is ova baby, lee yong ho FTW #1 zerg killa!"
Carnac
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
Germany / USA16648 Posts
March 03 2009 07:07 GMT
#9
SC will never be solved, this thread is useless.
ModeratorHi! I'm a .signature *virus*! Copy me into your ~/.signature to help me spread!
Carnac
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
Germany / USA16648 Posts
March 03 2009 07:09 GMT
#10
oh yeah btw oov went 27-0 vs zerg at one time and no he didnt solve anything either
ModeratorHi! I'm a .signature *virus*! Copy me into your ~/.signature to help me spread!
Carnac
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
Germany / USA16648 Posts
March 03 2009 07:13 GMT
#11
I wish someone would solve thread creation
ModeratorHi! I'm a .signature *virus*! Copy me into your ~/.signature to help me spread!
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
March 03 2009 09:27 GMT
#12
On March 03 2009 15:59 Last Romantic wrote:
This reminds me of NaDa's "Perfect TvZ". Invincible SKTerran.

Then he lost to sAviOr on RoV.
Savior on Luna
and it was a revolutionary game dear sir!
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
Last Romantic
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States20665 Posts
March 03 2009 09:52 GMT
#13
On March 03 2009 18:27 Plexa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2009 15:59 Last Romantic wrote:
This reminds me of NaDa's "Perfect TvZ". Invincible SKTerran.

Then he lost to sAviOr on RoV.
Savior on Luna
and it was a revolutionary game dear sir!


Eh, bloody Twilight maps.

Yes, revolutionary indeed.
ㅋㄲㅈㅁ
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
March 03 2009 10:18 GMT
#14
Probably was thinking about Savior vs Ra from ODT on RoV - another epic matchup!
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary26003 Posts
March 03 2009 16:22 GMT
#15
lol what is this?
Moderator
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36401 Posts
March 03 2009 17:34 GMT
#16
i have never seen someone talk so far above actual understanding lol
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary26003 Posts
May 13 2009 20:33 GMT
#17
I read this thread like once a week hahaha
Moderator
LosingID8
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
CA10832 Posts
May 13 2009 23:14 GMT
#18
lol so this is where your sig comes from loool
ModeratorResident K-POP Elitist
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary26003 Posts
May 25 2010 19:19 GMT
#19
Bump.
Moderator
Kennigit *
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada19447 Posts
May 25 2010 19:21 GMT
#20
hahahah
1 2 Next All
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