Stupid internet, preventing the most interesting part of the episode from being recorded. T_T Sad times.

But good games as always. Maybe this is as good a time as ever to remind people that any and all constructive feedback would be helpful, as I feel like my conveyance on the solutions to these mind puzzles wasn't particularly good.

PrinceXizor

United States17713 Posts

May 11 2016 09:46 GMT

#2331

On May 11 2016 12:57 AsmodeusXI wrote:
Stupid internet, preventing the most interesting part of the episode from being recorded. T_T Sad times.

But good games as always. Maybe this is as good a time as ever to remind people that any and all constructive feedback would be helpful, as I feel like my conveyance on the solutions to these mind puzzles wasn't particularly good.

I'm not caught up to i don't want to spoil myself, but when it comes to puzzles in a TTRPG, you gotta go full skyrim, or bring props. or allow characters to roll something to figure it out. a lot of times people play characters that are better at spacial awareness/puzzles than them, and it feels weird when you end up having a small puzzle that the 20 INT wizard can't figure out, but your 6 int 6 wis Barbarian gets immediately, because one player is excellent at puzzles and the other needs to see stuff in front of them to fully understand it.

Puzzles in DnD especially are pretty much just traps. you are gated in progress until you get past them, they aren't the core of the game (anymore), and because so much focus is now on a characters journey, rather than conquest of a dungeon over time, you can't just leave them alone until the players figure them out. DnD has a "solve the trap" skill, but they also kind of have a couple "solve the puzzle" skills. Insight for thoughtful puzzles, Investigation for spacial stuff (the crystal skull is a key), Religion for those puzzles built into a specific religion's lore.

The fun of the solution comes in the description of the character figuring out the puzzle, Being good at slowly revealing the puzzles solution in the description of something cool is more fun than standing there frustrated with not being able to see something in front of you when you are a visual learner, OR even letting the puzzle be ambiguous if it's not deliberately trying to foreshadow (having to pour water on the flame coming out of a dragon statue's mouth to open passage below to.... a red dragon), Ambiguous solutions to puzzles are fun because you get to share the narrative. *player rolls a 24 on Investigation* "Yeah you definitely figure out the puzzle pretty quick, what did you do that got the door open?". And whatever the player says, is the solution to the puzzle. It can lead to some fun stuff, like a barbarian with high insight, rolling super super well to solve a puzzle, sitting there contemplating the puzzle for a few moments and then smashing the door in with his maul and walking through, explaining how to open the door the right way as he steps past the rubble.

Also kind of Cheeky for some campaigns, is the "adventurer that came before" where they literally wrote the solution to the puzzle next to the puzzle with graffiti, or in a book, or even just the puzzle came pre-solved.

Puzzles in TTRPG also have the shitty quality of being 5 different puzzles for a campaign of 4 PCs, even though they are technically all the same. When you describe a room, there are 5 different visualizations or interpretations of that room at the table. so where if everyone was in front of the puzzle physically their suppositions would all aid eachother, they are actually detract in a TTRPG because one player is working an angle that only exists in their mind's version of the puzzle.

IN general actual Gating puzzles, in which if the players don't find a solution the gate stays locked, Are best for hexcrawl campaigns, as they can always come back later if they figure it out, rather than quest driven ones, where a session can grind to a halt because of a miscommunication or just people being visual learners. But either way there are something where if i want to include them, i specifically make it an important question when starting the campaign "do we want puzzles and riddles to be a part of the campaign, where you need to solve them to continue through certain areas". Often the same conversation where you discuss what people do/ do not want out of the campaign.

jcarlsoniv

United States27922 Posts

May 11 2016 20:24 GMT

#2332

Honestly, I didn't have much issue with last night's puzzle, but that might partially be because, as a player, I was contemplating how to get past the "Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil, See No Evil" theme that I imagined. Also I was generally amused by us all being trapped and Amak'thos being completely useless to figure anything out.

Combat was a bit stale, but when you're kiting melee mobs, that's what happens.

Giant mob shooting fish in a barrel will be hilarious though.

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

May 11 2016 21:14 GMT

#2333

I pretty much always try to do puzzles with physical props or diagrams that approximate physical props for precisely the reasons PX stated.

The "puzzle solving in character" thing is a problem that I pretty much have just accepted as a necessary evil and just ignore it. For the most part I only try to use real puzzles as a form of meta-game entertainment and as a change of pace for a party that would enjoy it rather than as a device for in-game advancement.

AsmodeusXI

United States15536 Posts

May 13 2016 14:04 GMT

#2334

Thanks for the recommendations guys. Gotta work on encounter design overall, combat or otherwise. Good to know places to improve.

Anyways, here's how I think wizards talk.