Anyone with deep knowledge of who of those players is still an amateur (like suncow is, i think) and who of them got semi-pro license already. Your help is appreciated.
And its possible for one of the Koreans here to post the remaining groups. Would be interesting to see who else is participating. Thanks in advance
one out of eighteen? that is... wow. The winner of the group gets a progamer or semipro license? If progamer, does that mean the player can compete in dual leagues? Does it allow them to do anything else? Good Luck Suncow and Draco
Crystal[inca], havent seen him a while, Q: When u gain progamer licence, can u lose it? I dont see too much chances for suncow tho its really pimp to try... Draco can do really good...
On July 01 2006 01:52 HiTexas wrote: Anyone with deep knowledge of who of those players is still an amateur (like suncow is, i think) and who of them got semi-pro license already. Your help is appreciated.
considering this tournament is to get semi pro license...
On July 01 2006 01:52 HiTexas wrote: Anyone with deep knowledge of who of those players is still an amateur (like suncow is, i think) and who of them got semi-pro license already. Your help is appreciated.
considering this tournament is to get semi pro license...
no?! considering this tournament is to get PRO license... its not to become semi-pro or am i mistaken?
courage is to get semi pro license which allows you to play ogn/msl prelims and i think full pro license has to do with how you perform in those. also with semi pro license you can do the other stuff rek said. and pro managers are allowed to choose like 2 players every period of time to receive semi pro license without having to do courage league, its not just anyone they send out in proleague.
It's very exciting to see 2 foreigners battle it out with the gosu amateur koreans. I'm not very sure about SunCows skill tbh, and haven't really followed him, but I know Draco could get pretty far here if it's a good day for him.
If would rule if one of these guys would actually get their semi-pro licenses!
On July 01 2006 03:47 Rekrul wrote: winner gets license which means he can join a team or participate in MBC/OGN trials...or play in proleague for the team he or she joins
i will be dracos manager
Winner gets a SEMI-pro license, just wanted to clarify that ;x
Semi-pros get to play in things like the Amateur-wcg qualifiers (like In_Dove did), I'm sure rekrul knows more about what they can/can't do tho, just wanted to point out that they don't get full pro by winning courage hehe.
On July 01 2006 04:27 FalliNinLove wrote: Crystal[inca], havent seen him a while, Q: When u gain progamer licence, can u lose it? I dont see too much chances for suncow tho its really pimp to try... Draco can do really good...
You can lose it yes, after a certain amount of inactivity (2 years maybe?). Grrr lost his, and Crystal came back from the army so I guess he lost his too (army duty is about 2 years).
On July 01 2006 03:47 Rekrul wrote: winner gets license which means he can join a team or participate in MBC/OGN trials...or play in proleague for the team he or she joins
i will be dracos manager
If he is not already corrupted, do not corrupt him like you guys did to Assem.
err the virgin terran lost his virginity? -.- It will be tough for the two of them, and regardless, being white people around koreans is always a plus and catches attention immediately
On July 01 2006 08:47 QuietIdiot wrote: err the virgin terran lost his virginity? -.- It will be tough for the two of them, and regardless, being white people around koreans is always a plus and catches attention immediately
it can be advantage in getting into proteam - advertising ;] " look @ us, we have the only white progamer atm" ! ;-)
On July 01 2006 03:47 Rekrul wrote: winner gets license which means he can join a team or participate in MBC/OGN trials...or play in proleague for the team he or she joins
i will be dracos manager
Winner gets a SEMI-pro license, just wanted to clarify that ;x
Semi-pros get to play in things like the Amateur-wcg qualifiers (like In_Dove did), I'm sure rekrul knows more about what they can/can't do tho, just wanted to point out that they don't get full pro by winning courage hehe.
or maybe if u weren't such an ignorant tard u'd realize they got rid of that semi pro shit over a year ago and now its just either amateur or progamer
On July 01 2006 03:47 Rekrul wrote: winner gets license which means he can join a team or participate in MBC/OGN trials...or play in proleague for the team he or she joins
i will be dracos manager
If he is not already corrupted, do not corrupt him like you guys did to Assem.
gl to him, it would be nice to see a non-korean playing int he leagues again but it seems impossible for anyone to make it hehe, even tho one has to make it, so many good names.
On July 01 2006 03:47 Rekrul wrote: winner gets license which means he can join a team or participate in MBC/OGN trials...or play in proleague for the team he or she joins
i will be dracos manager
Winner gets a SEMI-pro license, just wanted to clarify that ;x
Semi-pros get to play in things like the Amateur-wcg qualifiers (like In_Dove did), I'm sure rekrul knows more about what they can/can't do tho, just wanted to point out that they don't get full pro by winning courage hehe.
or maybe if u weren't such an ignorant tard u'd realize they got rid of that semi pro shit over a year ago and now its just either amateur or progamer
lol
Why soo mean...little dumb FA was just trying to help. It's not his fault to be THAT dumb.
Gogo Someone!
Edit: reading Netwars.pl, I found that the map pool is going to be: Rush Hour III; 815 III, and Sin Pioneer Period. Are those going to be still the courage maps?
Also, According to what SunCow posted, it's a Bo3 match.
On July 01 2006 01:55 zulu_nation8 wrote: one out of eighteen? that is... wow. The winner of the group gets a progamer or semipro license? If progamer, does that mean the player can compete in dual leagues? Does it allow them to do anything else? Good Luck Suncow and Draco
even if one of them acquire's their liscense, I'm sure teams will be slightly reluctant to accept them, and will even then probably not play them in proleauge very often.
On July 01 2006 04:12 T-BoT[pL] wrote: if Draco/suncow get a license i promise i will cut my hand. thats all
I predict that getting their liscense will be the easy part, comparitively, and still extremely difficult at that. Dual leagues and finding a team are going to be a bitch.
and god damn some of you are way underrating suncow. Just because he's less hyped than draco and he's still not a+ on pgt doesn't make him any worse... check out some of his replays to judge him, not just what you here from the INFINITE WISDOM OF THE GG.NET RANKINGS!!111
On July 01 2006 01:55 zulu_nation8 wrote: one out of eighteen? that is... wow. The winner of the group gets a progamer or semipro license? If progamer, does that mean the player can compete in dual leagues? Does it allow them to do anything else? Good Luck Suncow and Draco
even if one of them acquire's their liscense, I'm sure teams will be slightly reluctant to accept them, and will even then probably not play them in proleauge very often.
On July 01 2006 01:55 zulu_nation8 wrote: one out of eighteen? that is... wow. The winner of the group gets a progamer or semipro license? If progamer, does that mean the player can compete in dual leagues? Does it allow them to do anything else? Good Luck Suncow and Draco
even if one of them acquire's their liscense, I'm sure teams will be slightly reluctant to accept them, and will even then probably not play them in proleauge very often.
just check what skt is doing with pj and lx
Yep, and pj and lx both had a big advantage in that they beat the korean's who played them in weg 2005. Pj took some games on somebody, and I belive lx stomped on kingdom's face. I might be wrong, but I know they had the added advantage that other foreigners haven't had by being able to make an impression at that event. And even now, on skt, they practice 10 hours a day with the best of the best and don't do any competition outside of courage. Speaking of which, anyone know what pj/lx's groups are?
On July 01 2006 01:55 zulu_nation8 wrote: one out of eighteen? that is... wow. The winner of the group gets a progamer or semipro license? If progamer, does that mean the player can compete in dual leagues? Does it allow them to do anything else? Good Luck Suncow and Draco
even if one of them acquire's their liscense, I'm sure teams will be slightly reluctant to accept them, and will even then probably not play them in proleauge very often.
just check what skt is doing with pj and lx
Yep, and pj and lx both had a big advantage in that they beat the korean's who played them in weg 2005. Pj took some games on somebody, and I belive lx stomped on kingdom's face. I might be wrong, but I know they had the added advantage that other foreigners haven't had by being able to make an impression at that event. And even now, on skt, they practice 10 hours a day with the best of the best and don't do any competition outside of courage. Speaking of which, anyone know what pj/lx's groups are?
pj went 0-3 and lx tied kingdom they were brought over to market progaming in china, not because skt1 thought they were gonna be the next big progamers.
On July 01 2006 01:55 zulu_nation8 wrote: one out of eighteen? that is... wow. The winner of the group gets a progamer or semipro license? If progamer, does that mean the player can compete in dual leagues? Does it allow them to do anything else? Good Luck Suncow and Draco
even if one of them acquire's their liscense, I'm sure teams will be slightly reluctant to accept them, and will even then probably not play them in proleauge very often.
just check what skt is doing with pj and lx
Yep, and pj and lx both had a big advantage in that they beat the korean's who played them in weg 2005. Pj took some games on somebody, and I belive lx stomped on kingdom's face. I might be wrong, but I know they had the added advantage that other foreigners haven't had by being able to make an impression at that event. And even now, on skt, they practice 10 hours a day with the best of the best and don't do any competition outside of courage. Speaking of which, anyone know what pj/lx's groups are?
On July 01 2006 03:47 Rekrul wrote: winner gets license which means he can join a team or participate in MBC/OGN trials...or play in proleague for the team he or she joins
i will be dracos manager
If he is not already corrupted, do not corrupt him like you guys did to Assem.
On July 01 2006 03:47 Rekrul wrote: winner gets license which means he can join a team or participate in MBC/OGN trials...or play in proleague for the team he or she joins
i will be dracos manager
If he is not already corrupted, do not corrupt him like you guys did to Assem.
On July 01 2006 03:47 Rekrul wrote: winner gets license which means he can join a team or participate in MBC/OGN trials...or play in proleague for the team he or she joins
i will be dracos manager
Winner gets a SEMI-pro license, just wanted to clarify that ;x
Semi-pros get to play in things like the Amateur-wcg qualifiers (like In_Dove did), I'm sure rekrul knows more about what they can/can't do tho, just wanted to point out that they don't get full pro by winning courage hehe.
or maybe if u weren't such an ignorant tard u'd realize they got rid of that semi pro shit over a year ago and now its just either amateur or progamer
lol
Uhhhhhhh, is that why In_Dove, who won a courage a few months back, competed in the amateur WCG prelims?
Is that why there's a 준프로 category on the Progamer.or.kr site?
On July 01 2006 03:47 Rekrul wrote: winner gets license which means he can join a team or participate in MBC/OGN trials...or play in proleague for the team he or she joins
i will be dracos manager
Winner gets a SEMI-pro license, just wanted to clarify that ;x
Semi-pros get to play in things like the Amateur-wcg qualifiers (like In_Dove did), I'm sure rekrul knows more about what they can/can't do tho, just wanted to point out that they don't get full pro by winning courage hehe.
or maybe if u weren't such an ignorant tard u'd realize they got rid of that semi pro shit over a year ago and now its just either amateur or progamer
lol
Uhhhhhhh, is that why In_Dove, who won a courage a few months back, competed in the amateur WCG prelims?
Is that why there's a 준프로 category on the Progamer.or.kr site?
-_-
I'm almost entirely certain you are wrong -.-
probably cuz he's some newbie kid who doesn't have a team
The semi-pro license still exists (he's listed as a semi-pro), but he's not officially on hanbit (he used to be a 연습생 - translates best to practice partner right? - on there so I just assumed they picked him up officially as soon as he got his license, but I guess they have to do that at the draft?).
I still don't see how what I said was retarded tho ;p
this is sooo off topic... it went from draco/suncow brackts in the Courate tournament to Assem being a flower waiting to bloom, to Jathin loving fat chicks..
On July 01 2006 12:49 FrozenArbiter wrote: Hm, well, I guess you might be right IN A WAY.
The semi-pro license still exists (he's listed as a semi-pro), but he's not officially on hanbit (he used to be a 연습생 - translates best to practice partner right? - on there so I just assumed they picked him up officially as soon as he got his license, but I guess they have to do that at the draft?).
I still don't see how what I said was retarded tho ;p
i was trying to be mean
but, if u have semi pro license and play on a team in proleague or whatever, im positive you're recognized as a full pro
also, 1 year ago they randomly decided to make all jun-pros into full progamers
I would give SunCow 0.1% of winning his group -.- Anyway, i guess Rekrul is right about becoming pro only if you have team. So semi-pro actually becomes pro when he is registered in some team and plays in OGN/MBC trials. So that means that winning Courage only gives you semi-pro licenze.
And Dove is no more on Hanbit. He used to be their practice partner, but after some Courage failures they dropped him. And they picked SpEciAL[S.G] for pro, what a blow.
On July 01 2006 12:49 FrozenArbiter wrote: Hm, well, I guess you might be right IN A WAY.
The semi-pro license still exists (he's listed as a semi-pro), but he's not officially on hanbit (he used to be a 연습생 - translates best to practice partner right? - on there so I just assumed they picked him up officially as soon as he got his license, but I guess they have to do that at the draft?).
I still don't see how what I said was retarded tho ;p
i was trying to be mean
but, if u have semi pro license and play on a team in proleague or whatever, im positive you're recognized as a full pro
also, 1 year ago they randomly decided to make all jun-pros into full progamers
Yeah, I think I understand how it works/what you meant now; Win courage get semi-pro, but before you can play for a team you have to be drafted, when you get drafted, you get your pro-license. So in effect, you can't play for a proteam without being full-pro I guess?
On July 01 2006 15:14 Slaughter)BiO wrote: What the hell happend to Assem anyways? Dose he even still play?
assem lives back in Georgia now.... hes getting ready for wcg... he just played enuf of the ladder to qualify... he got#7 on South Region of USA (top 8 qualify only)
Suncow is probably overrating himself a bit, but he's very underrated by tl.net. TL.neters judge him by how he was 6 months to a year ago or even longer back still. He's been training REALLY hard.
I'm really curious how Crystal will fare. I know nothing about he is doing right now, but he was really good back in the day.
USA is only sending 1 player to WCG. Maybe I'm wrong, but it strikes me that Assem is not in the form he needs to be in right now to take it, so he probably won't.
hrm dunno, i think TL netters are judging him by his games on EuroCup, which weren't impressive at all (ZvT that is) and well, ZvT is the key of a successful zerg in Korea (more so than ZvZ i think)
On July 01 2006 03:47 Rekrul wrote: winner gets license which means he can join a team or participate in MBC/OGN trials...or play in proleague for the team he or she joins
i will be dracos manager
Winner gets a SEMI-pro license, just wanted to clarify that ;x
Semi-pros get to play in things like the Amateur-wcg qualifiers (like In_Dove did), I'm sure rekrul knows more about what they can/can't do tho, just wanted to point out that they don't get full pro by winning courage hehe.
or maybe if u weren't such an ignorant tard u'd realize they got rid of that semi pro shit over a year ago and now its just either amateur or progamer
lol
Why soo mean...little dumb FA was just trying to help. It's not his fault to be THAT dumb.
Gogo Someone!
Edit: reading Netwars.pl, I found that the map pool is going to be: Rush Hour III; 815 III, and Sin Pioneer Period. Are those going to be still the courage maps?
Also, According to what SunCow posted, it's a Bo3 match.
u guys dont realise how different it is at these events, the players practice like 40 games a day for this i dont know if either suncow or draco can really do anything but its a good learning experience, gl to the both of em - cy1[fou] or hanjo[fou] or spear[shield] or only[s.g] for the win
Mana, not really. It's whether they can compete as professional gamers. Not whether or not they can beat amateurs. That will only make things more interesting. Draco may have a shot. And is capable of passing courage. Suncow does not. Only capable with luck. Even then, he will disappoint his team in the future.
This has been the general consensus.
I do not think either of them will have a +50% win rate though at professional level. Even vs the lower tiered pros they are likely to be facing at first. I think suncow will have a 1/5 / 1/10 win rate. (in the short run, if he makes it) I think Draco will have a 2/5 win rate. (in the long run, if he makes it) This is actually fairly good / decent. I suspect Draco will pass courage sooner or later, possibly even on his first try. But afterwards he may make a moderate / modest living. If he succeeds past that, like qualifying for a starleague, or MSL etc.. well then i'll be surprised definitely. Because don't you have to get through ODT then some other qualification to qualify? (Shrug I dunno).
Suncow I have no faith in, and have told Siz they are wasting their time. They told me they weren't and that it was the determination of a gamer that could make them great, even one as low as suncow. (It was agreed upon the time between us that when I was talking with them that he was low in skill). They don't understand yet. They will soon, or within a year.
I told them it was determination, ability, and much more than that. If you put Mondi or Sen in Suncow's place, practicing like crazy and really taking the game seriously people would wonder about all people going to korea, and whether they could make it or not.
So far we have 1 maybe, with most people crossin' their fingers. And 1 guy who will end up going back home.
On a side note: How many professional matches have PJ and LX played in korea. Anyone know?
I still see Courage as a big huge fuckin deal, just because the word "amateur" takes on a whole new meaning in Korea. It's a tough tournament and the players are very talented, so I'll be incredibly impressed if either of them could win it.
They've been in korea for a full year almost and only played 2 games? Well, less than 10. Wufan said PJ recently went 0-3 and LX I forget. 2-1? 1-2. I dunno.
uhm...well i can only wish the best of luck to draco and suncow lol. they'll probably have some tough times and shit along the way, but its still a good experience and may be fun :\
On July 02 2006 02:00 IriS[YY] wrote: Only[S.G],Pause[GsP] and Oops[Shield] seems to have more chances to qualify. But it all depends. SunCow also has the chance.
Dove hasn't passed courage yet... ,Said by Pj on a Chinese forum.
Well PJ is wrong, dove passed it not long ago.
On July 01 2006 22:48 Mr.Testie wrote: They've been in korea for a full year almost and only played 2 games? Well, less than 10. Wufan said PJ recently went 0-3 and LX I forget. 2-1? 1-2. I dunno.
Yeah, but these games weren't on TV. They were qualifying games.
Yeah so far for Pj & Lx in Korea...they've played quite a few pro matches. Only a few were on TV. They both took part in the OSL offline quals this season & last season. Pj actually did pretty good last season winning versus two players (ChRh & someone else) befor elosing to Fantastic_NamOo in the group final. Lx lost his first match in his group. ANd then there was the matches SquaLL spoke of in the Rookie Leagues. I really do think we'll see Draco in some though, and I really really wanna see his group for the courage tournament.
On July 02 2006 14:57 mYm.Alpine wrote: Yeah so far for Pj & Lx in Korea...they've played quite a few pro matches. Only a few were on TV. They both took part in the OSL offline quals this season & last season. Pj actually did pretty good last season winning versus two players (ChRh & someone else) befor elosing to Fantastic_NamOo in the group final. Lx lost his first match in his group. ANd then there was the matches SquaLL spoke of in the Rookie Leagues. I really do think we'll see Draco in some though, and I really really wanna see his group for the courage tournament.
Pj beat ChRh and Silent_GGoMa,lost to Fantastic_NamOo.The game vs Fantastic_NamOo on Rush Hour Pj at least had 3-4 chance let Fantastic_NamOo type GG,but he lost with 8000+ mine.
On July 02 2006 14:57 mYm.Alpine wrote: Yeah so far for Pj & Lx in Korea...they've played quite a few pro matches. Only a few were on TV. They both took part in the OSL offline quals this season & last season. Pj actually did pretty good last season winning versus two players (ChRh & someone else) befor elosing to Fantastic_NamOo in the group final. Lx lost his first match in his group. ANd then there was the matches SquaLL spoke of in the Rookie Leagues. I really do think we'll see Draco in some though, and I really really wanna see his group for the courage tournament.
Pj beat ChRh and Silent_GGoMa,lost to Fantastic_NamOo.The game vs Fantastic_NamOo on Rush Hour Pj at least had 3-4 chance let Fantastic_NamOo type GG,but he lost with 8000+ mine.
your missing the point testie... we want these players to do well because it helps progaming, especially for starcraft to expand. hopefully they will achieve thier dreams ; ) we need more ppl from diffrent places reaching that level and proving themselves amoungst the koreans.
hey its not linyu)pj wanted to play PvZ in the first place -_-;
Think he's switched over to tvz now and I think after seing how horrid his pvz is, I guess the team allows him to play tvz again (Hence his several tvz showings at China WCG)
On July 03 2006 15:27 bine wrote: prohibited? really? i thought it was just discouraged.
i thought so as well, as idra said that (in the proleague?) you just have to say what mu's you are going to play beforehand, so you just dont start picking a race because of a certain map or player.
I'm pretty sure it's prohibited now. From what SunCow said, he had to switch to ZvT in order to play in Korea. He wouldn't do this by himself, especially after playing PvT for a long time. This switch was a must, as it seems.
But I don't want to drive anybody into a mistake, it's just what it seems to me.
On July 03 2006 04:01 MyLostTemple wrote: your missing the point testie... we want these players to do well because it helps progaming, especially for starcraft to expand. hopefully they will achieve thier dreams ; ) we need more ppl from diffrent places reaching that level and proving themselves amoungst the koreans.
i say gl to both
You're missing the point.
Re-read and know that this entire post says NOTHING about what I have said. I didn't say I want them to do bad and that they should and all this other crap. I said how I thought they would do. Period. I then inquired how PJ and LX were doing. I missed no points. You made no sense. Archi, you're german and english is your 2nd language. I forgive you.
Tasteless said what? And I don't think Testie was missing the point either. And it's ironic that Archi agrees with what Tasteless said, obviously without understanding what he said.
Seems like Tasteless misinterpreted what Testie said or vice versa and that Archi is on his selfmade whoever-tells-Testie-he-is-wrong-is-my-hero bandwagon.
Aaaanyways
What MU:s does Pj play now exactly? I thought you were only allowed to consequently play one race as a progamer in Korea.
And I really wanna see Dracos group and I hope he does very well! I think he can do pretty much anything right now. This is so exciting!
Also I of course hope for Suncow to do good, although I'm not so familiar with his skill.
On July 02 2006 15:55 HungZerg wrote: ok according to hyesun[name] who's in dracos group the best players in the group are saber[name] best[hyo] nsp_zerg rain[fou] zergboy[fou] sh[fou]
On July 02 2006 15:55 HungZerg wrote: ok according to hyesun[name] who's in dracos group the best players in the group are saber[name] best[hyo] nsp_zerg rain[fou] zergboy[fou] sh[fou]
its not a hard concept the best players are the ones most likely to win. if someone other than them wins it will probably be mostly luck based, so it doesnt really matter who they are.
On July 03 2006 16:27 HungZerg wrote: for those of you who are apparently illiterate
On July 02 2006 15:55 HungZerg wrote: ok according to hyesun[name] who's in dracos group the best players in the group are saber[name] best[hyo] nsp_zerg rain[fou] zergboy[fou] sh[fou]
the rest are most likely irrelevant.
And why is that?
He means that with high probability someone of those players mentioned will win this.
rest are most likely irrelevant because they aren't very famous/known and hence will probably not be a BIG threat to Draco. The named "best" players are those who will probably give Draco the most trouble.
draco has beat a couple of those people before, and if he is in top condition, he definetly has a chance to win. im not so sure about suncow, i havent seen too many of his games.
someone mentioned that he recently switched to zvt, so as long as he doesnt get that matchup he has amuch better chance to be successful it seems.
On July 03 2006 15:45 QuietIdiot wrote: hey its not linyu)pj wanted to play PvZ in the first place -_-;
Think he's switched over to tvz now and I think after seing how horrid his pvz is, I guess the team allows him to play tvz again (Hence his several tvz showings at China WCG)
On July 03 2006 16:11 Eagleheart wrote: Tasteless said what? And I don't think Testie was missing the point either. And it's ironic that Archi agrees with what Tasteless said, obviously without understanding what he said.
Seems like Tasteless misinterpreted what Testie said or vice versa and that Archi is on his selfmade whoever-tells-Testie-he-is-wrong-is-my-hero bandwagon.
Aaaanyways
What MU:s does Pj play now exactly? I thought you were only allowed to consequently play one race as a progamer in Korea.
And I really wanna see Dracos group and I hope he does very well! I think he can do pretty much anything right now. This is so exciting!
Also I of course hope for Suncow to do good, although I'm not so familiar with his skill.
You understood me wrong. Sry for my poor english. I agree with Tasteless's point that Draco and Suncow need our support. Criticism is good, but not in the form some people did/do here.
On July 04 2006 01:43 Elsi wrote: How come there's no sign of Draco's group?
Of course all of us wish them luck, even Koreans are wishing them luck. We have a Draco and Suncow Polish Appreciation Day later but the groups need to be here. Thx
On July 04 2006 11:15 Rekrul wrote: draco couldn't figure out how to open the thingy to put the password into my door, nor could he figure out which bathroom was the mens
when will we know the brackets? and also, we shouldn't all give up hope for suncow yet. even if he does have a tough road, we should still be wishing him on. it would be great for all of us if both of them did well.
When will courage be played? im curious to see how suncow is going to shape up :O?
and all this talk about multiple races being prohibited in korea.. i didnt think this was the case as ive seen progamers play outside their main race in proleague.. ok it was 2v2 but still =/
his manager or somethin said he's tvzing in wcg, but pvzing in korea. most likely because it is easier to lose pvz to stupid shit and he just wants to be safe.
On July 05 2006 01:13 Plexa wrote: When will courage be played? im curious to see how suncow is going to shape up :O?
and all this talk about multiple races being prohibited in korea.. i didnt think this was the case as ive seen progamers play outside their main race in proleague.. ok it was 2v2 but still =/
from what I can tell, courage is on the 9th. From what I can tell, depending on the league you either must be one race, or specify your matchup preferences ahead of time. Personally, I find that a huuuuuuuuuge disappointment. I think the introduction of random players could really mess things up in a good way, and create a lot of new dynamics and strategies.
but wouldnt that be offset by how different it would be for their opponents? since no one is random as of now, opponents would have to learn new strats just for them specifically. I think if someone came up as random from the beginning, and learned general skills that could be applied to each matchup, what they'd lack in subtle experience in each matchup could be made irrelevant by the fact the the opponent would have to be building against random. There would be a lot less build orders to choose from, especially at first, when playing someone random, because much less is known about how to do it best. there would also be a lot of psychological possibilities, as a random zerg vs. picked zerg could like 4 pool or something and suprise the enemy.
keep in mind: i'm not an expert, and i'm not claiming this stuff is all true or whatever. It just seems like the case from my perspective. maybe im getting too off topic as well, but its really interesting to me.
so it would bring about games determined more by luck and would also reduce the overall level of games because people would not be able to practice properly and play to their best. good idea.
On July 05 2006 08:56 HungZerg wrote: so it would bring about games determined more by luck and would also reduce the overall level of games because people would not be able to practice properly and play to their best. good idea.
I think that's a bit simplistic. Granted, there would be a greater level of "luck" involved (getting a good MU vs. getting a bad MU), but I don't think it would reduce the level of games. People would be able to practice, but the idea of "properly" would have to change a bit; practicing vs. a random player would still be practice, just different practice, and in my opinion, the level of play would go up in some ways.
maybe its just from my perspective as a less-serious player and more of a spectator, but I like when unpredictable or new situations occur. Right now, even though there is some room for creativity, much of the game seems to be so dissected and understood that it becomes sort of a rock-paper-scissors of build orders too much of the time. Even though players might not be able to play at "as high a level" in terms of knowing exactly what will happen each game, they might end up playing at a higher level in terms of creativity and excitement, because more decisions would have to be made that are out of the ordinary, more adaptation, etc. For me, the exciting part about BW is not that someone can sit in a practice room for 70 hours a week and become skilled at clicking fast and remembering situations, its that some players have such a high level of understanding that they can occasionally accomplish brilliant moves, etc. I think random could (potentially) help that.
That's my reasoning. it may be based on incomplete information or something, and again I'm not pretending to be really skilled, just analysis based on following progaming a bit. Also, its definitely all about personal preference. I like to be suprised, but i can imagine as a great player it would be more fun to see the subtle details going on between players that have prepared for the specific matchup with 1000 games etc.
It's much harder to play at the very top level in every MU. It's much easier to focus on your strongest race.
That's not to say it's bad to be random. Especially at lower levels, it helps build your intuition for the game. But sooner or later you need to focus more heavily.
Yeah I am pretty interested to see who's in Draco's group, seems strange to be that no has bothered translating it, which I find sad, I'm just curious that's all!
On July 06 2006 07:25 Mortality wrote: ggon still plays...he's progamer.
It's much harder to play at the very top level in every MU. It's much easier to focus on your strongest race.
That's not to say it's bad to be random. Especially at lower levels, it helps build your intuition for the game. But sooner or later you need to focus more heavily.
On July 06 2006 07:25 Mortality wrote: ggon still plays...he's progamer.
It's much harder to play at the very top level in every MU. It's much easier to focus on your strongest race.
That's not to say it's bad to be random. Especially at lower levels, it helps build your intuition for the game. But sooner or later you need to focus more heavily.
On July 06 2006 07:51 Elsi wrote: Yeah I am pretty interested to see who's in Draco's group, seems strange to be that no has bothered translating it, which I find sad, I'm just curious that's all!
I saw ggon in the proleagues. He wasnt bad considering he was playing vs rainbow. If he focuses on protoss one matchup he will surely do well in is PvP
=O can't wait... i am quite excited. I hope somebody will be livereporting this.
The only problem I forsee is that Draco\Suncow have not played in this type of high skill tournament with so much pressure, and maybe they will choke\play badly.
I think their skill is good enough to compete with any of these players, but its the experience that might give them trouble.
Draco and Suncow will be playing on Sunday Korea time.
They are not in the same group. Their draw has not been announced but their group has.
Unfortunately, all the information uses their real names and I have no idea what the handles of all the 63 other kids in each group are. I'll send you a link, see what you can make out of it.
Hrm, I recognized a few names but can't remember any of them -.- And there's too many for me to be able to check who they are by ygclaning them (I'll do the few I recognize tho).
오범석 (Oh Beom Seok) really stood out tho, and no surprise since he's on my flist lol: Dream.t)Saldaga, ex n.Die_Saldaga and in Draco's group. Protoss player. Mm, I have no idea how good Draco is at PvP so I can't tell you if he'll be a threat or not
강대현 (Kang Dae Hyun) = NsP_Kkangdae (I know kkang means brave and dae means big, so I guess it's a play on his name ? or 'really brave'?). Terran. Never seen him play.
Surprised I didn't find finepix in here :< Or In_PIG (know he's going).
However, I guess they might be going to the one in pusan, not the one in seoul :O
Ah, these are just group a and b, there's C too.
Also, courage is split over 2 days, so I think some people don't have their game until tomorrow.
It seems with the exception of Group C, the other groups are significantly weaker than the ones SunCow and Draco find themselves in. Group A winner: Sea.PangYa > HoeJJa[S.G] Group B winner: Siz)Kai Group C final: [3.33]orange > TheStC[GnH]
Prediction or already happened? If so thats really funny. Sea.Pangya is aka G.s)bZ and he was NOT impressive to me at all. This would be reminescent of that debate we had Jamie. His winning would most certainly (for me) prove YOU correct.
On July 08 2006 06:01 {88}iNcontroL wrote: Prediction or already happened? If so thats really funny. Sea.Pangya is aka G.s)bZ and he was NOT impressive to me at all. This would be reminescent of that debate we had Jamie. His winning would most certainly (for me) prove YOU correct.
its possible to get better in a short amount of time ;p
i played him in pgtour season 6 and didn't think that much of him either. to be honest his group did look kinda weak, so he didn't have to be great. just avoid kouros[fou] and polaris[name] and it should be easy for any reasonably good zerg user
you dont have to be pro to be on a team, it just limits what you can do. you cant play the starleague prelims, and you used to be not able to play in proleague games, but im pretty sure they changed that a bit back.
oo, and so if only the sorta known and known players' id are displayed, the rest of the players, about 80-90% are all just a bunch of random noobies that signed up?
if you're talking about proteam rosters the amateur practice partners still have to pass tests and stuff to get into the team, but yes they usually either arent shown or theyre the ones no one can identify.
i didn't write all ids because many of those players are bad, and some are good but i dunno their names and they're not listed on ygclan. for example in group b siz)kai won but i dunno what his name is so i didn't write his ID in the list.
yeah, im curious too ? ;] will be something known during the courage, or all info + replays will be available to get after it ? ~~; pls tell me, cuz i think whether go sleep or not ;-)
Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't, but considering two pols are in it I am sure they will release the replays as everyone will want to see how they do.
On July 08 2006 14:37 Sun wrote: Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't, but considering two pols are in it I am sure they will release the replays as everyone will want to see how they do.
highly doubt that, if we get the reps it will be suncow/draco releasing the reps of their games that they saved themselves.
pretty sure all courage reps that get out are like that.
On July 08 2006 16:47 Sun wrote: Is there an echo in the room? What do you think I inferred young one? Was I not clear?
I know how it works. Stop being the pessimistic prat boy in every thread.
"im sure theyll release it" ya you sure implied exactly what i said.... its not being pessimistic to know the korean organizers arent gonna release reps just this once because the non kor community wants to know how 2 players did.
On July 08 2006 16:47 Sun wrote: Is there an echo in the room? What do you think I inferred young one? Was I not clear?
I know how it works. Stop being the pessimistic prat boy in every thread.
"im sure theyll release it" ya you sure implied exactly what i said.... its not being pessimistic to know the korean organizers arent gonna release reps just this once because the non kor community wants to know how 2 players did.
Realy hope draco wins. I would be afraid of him meeting a decent zerg, as all the reps I have of him pvz are not so great... PvT PvP he can beat any amature I am sure.
Courage sponsor changed to e-sports from kizoo, and they are doing horrible with updating in their website. They just put draw of player's "name", and not even their bnet ids. Many Koreans are already complaining on their site. So they "might" update today, but kinda hopeless.
I'm going to bed in 3 hours however i will ask my friend (5~6 friends went to see draco's play on sunday) on msn b4 go to bed and if i hear some news, i will write it.
On July 08 2006 17:15 dream-_- wrote: Realy hope draco wins. I would be afraid of him meeting a decent zerg, as all the reps I have of him pvz are not so great... PvT PvP he can beat any amature I am sure.
Draco's PvZ is much better than his PvT imo..
Anyway, I talked to someone I know in suncow's group, he said it starts at 2 PM korean time (that's in 3 hours, or TL time 22:00).
Ok so now someone has said 2 PM and someone 12:00 ;o Maybe I misread tho, because I'm sleepy as hell :D
On July 08 2006 19:06 Nal_CrayOn wrote: Courage sponsor changed to e-sports from kizoo, and they are doing horrible with updating in their website. They just put draw of player's "name", and not even their bnet ids. Many Koreans are already complaining on their site. So they "might" update today, but kinda hopeless.
I'm going to bed in 3 hours however i will ask my friend (5~6 friends went to see draco's play on sunday) on msn b4 go to bed and if i hear some news, i will write it.
btw gl to both players
good gayon, I love you and trust you. Give us updates asap!^^!
nal_gaemi and nal_draco are in same group both won 1st round. draco got pretty nice draw. He will meet best[hyo] in 5th round if he keep win and if he win him, he will prob make to final. Also if gaemi make final also, they will meet in Final T_T
yeah best[hyo] is awesome indeed...wish i had somethign to offer everyone about draco or suncow...but...you all seem to know more then i do about it. Suncow should be playing anytime though, as CrayOn already said his group played at 5:00 cet.
Courage is pretty newbie, its been going on for ages, and each time they take the best players out of it. Think of it as PGT where every month the top 50 get taken out... after a while you are left with just B ranked people etc.
They should do good, as long as they dont let their nerves get to them.
Yeah, i would agree that the hardest part for Draco & Suncow will be nerves. I think both players have a very good shot at it...if they can cope with the anxiety of it all. I cant imagine being in a completely new country, competing against the best non-pros in the world...must be nerve-wrecking as hell...
How many people in a group? 64 = 2^6 is it? If then, that's 6 rounds, and even if the players aren't so gosu and Draco or SunCow have 80% chance of winning each game (and no way it's that high by the last couple rounds, eh?, and considering nerves and general unfamiliarity), that's still only about a 25% chance of winning all the whole group.
But I don't know, Leg's done Courage before, so I guess he knows what he's talking about.
On July 08 2006 21:49 Nal_CrayOn wrote: www.e-sports.or.kr however they dont update at all. It's their first time hosting courage and they are doing horrible job.
btw draco playing long ass 2nd match i guess. been long time T_T
They are doing a pretty sucky job, everywhere. They haven't even added the ProLeague matches for today. ._.
Hope they upload their reps for everyone, although i never did
bl draco, he will be disappointed but hopefully it will give him good motivation for the next time. Hopefully whoever he lost to will go onto win, so its a good excuse to have lost then!
because they dont have infinity to stay there. and obviusly if after one month of training in Korea they wont win or at least be taken by some proteam, ex Draco, nobody will want them ;-)
dracos final game was on 815, hte guy did some fast expand shit into carrier rush pvp and draco was completely unprepared for it, didnt see the game tho until he was raped, dunno
On July 08 2006 20:51 Myrmidon wrote: How many people in a group? 64 = 2^6 is it? If then, that's 6 rounds, and even if the players aren't so gosu and Draco or SunCow have 80% chance of winning each game (and no way it's that high by the last couple rounds, eh?, and considering nerves and general unfamiliarity), that's still only about a 25% chance of winning all the whole group.
But I don't know, Leg's done Courage before, so I guess he knows what he's talking about.
Leg did courage back when it was like a 400 man tournament and the top 4 got their license lol.
Group A winner in BuSan City was tosslife[fOu][김덕인] (Not Draco's group) Group B winner in BuSan city was NsP_Marine aka SaSin)Marine[윤상진] (Not SunCow's group) Group A winner in Seoul was NsP_ZerG[김상욱] (Draco's group) Group B winner in Seoul was Spear[Shield][임원기] (SunCow's group)
I'm sure Pro Gaming teams will still want to get a foreigner on the team, and if they still in Korea and practice hardcore, I'm def. sure they will see how dedicated they are and try to pick them up for the team.
Dont read too much into draco doing more than suncow.
It is very subjective, there were times i had such an easy draw and would win lots of games, yet others i would lose in the first round. It all depends on who you were verse, which race they are, and on which maps.
1 tournament does not show true skill. So give them time and lets see what they can do.
A month of hardcore prac vs koreans will help them no end.
tosslife[fOu][김덕인] = tosslife[GnH] / mym.tosslife / SW)tosslife / tosslife[ar] aka Kim Duck In etc... !? They are the same persons?? Or two different tosslife ?
tosslife[fOu] = mYm.Tosslife Texas......Draco > Endless[fOu] in Round 1, and he defeated HyeSun[Name] in Round 3.....that's all the info i've managed to find.
On July 09 2006 07:02 HiTexas wrote: tosslife[fOu][김덕인] = tosslife[GnH] / mym.tosslife / SW)tosslife / tosslife[ar] aka Kim Duck In etc... !? They are the same persons?? Or two different tosslife ?
when is the next courage tournament?? =O and how long are they staying in Korea. Actually, its not bad considering they've been in Korea only like 5 days beforehand.
Next courage tournament will be in roughly a month. Dunno how long they'll stay, I think SunCow said somewhere between 6 months and 1 year but depends on how he does
On July 09 2006 06:44 Legionnaire wrote: Dont read too much into draco doing more than suncow.
It is very subjective, there were times i had such an easy draw and would win lots of games, yet others i would lose in the first round. It all depends on who you were verse, which race they are, and on which maps.
1 tournament does not show true skill. So give them time and lets see what they can do.
A month of hardcore prac vs koreans will help them no end.
On July 09 2006 07:02 HiTexas wrote: tosslife[fOu][김덕인] = tosslife[GnH] / mym.tosslife / SW)tosslife / tosslife[ar] aka Kim Duck In etc... !? They are the same persons?? Or two different tosslife ?
Draco doesnt post on netwars.pl or any other forum for that matter
he is practising but also has really bad marketing
take a look at Pj - he would only publish the replays of the games he won - especially if he won with style, I think his fanboy and our replay uploader was even said to have deleted the replays of the games, where PJ lost
Draco should publish his good replays here and there
like under the article on fighterforum - he should post the great game vs Sniper etc
On July 09 2006 12:39 bine wrote: so what's next for the poles?
any word on teams yet?
edit: also, what does this result mean for them? is it good, bad, or sort of expected and therefore unimportant?
unadjusted and have barely started practicing, not on a team yet. its pretty expected. draco's run isnt bad but it seems like he didnt really face any of the best players in his group.
Still for him to win that many series in a courage shows that he can hang there. Leg's comments are obviously true, but I'm still glad to see him go deep into a tournament like that regardless of his draw.
I'm looking forward to following these 2 as they spend more time in Korea. This next month will be super important.
On July 09 2006 17:48 Legionnaire wrote: Foreigners fighting~
are you going to back to the korea to play SC again? i want to see foreigner beats korean pro at ongamenet or MBC game or something like who is the next? draco? where are they rekrul and assem?
rekrul quit long ago, and Assem had visa problems and had to go back to USA. I dunno if he will return to Korea though, hopefully he will, because he was pretty good, but he seemed to have peaked in his skill level, although he could have beaten any foreigner, he couldn't compete against progamers very often.
On July 09 2006 19:02 FrozenArbiter wrote: origin[joypop]
I assume that was meant as an answer to my question ;O however i dont know this guy, is he any special FA? I mean of course he is a good gamer but you know what i mean~~
On July 09 2006 19:02 FrozenArbiter wrote: origin[joypop]
I assume that was meant as an answer to my question ;O however i dont know this guy, is he any special FA? I mean of course he is a good gamer but you know what i mean~~
Not anyone special as far as I know, never seen him play tho.
Anyhow - shouldn't make fun of him, how many times haven't you (everyone, not replying to daze's post now ) lost to someone who you felt you should beat?
On July 10 2006 03:08 Eagleheart wrote: haha lol yea SunCow "perhaps" overestimated himself a bit....
"I'm winning" hoho.
omg, SunCow was playing on West very often lately, and this "im winning" doesnt mean "i will win". SunCow has just got better win:loss ratio with them.
Suncow never listed origin; he obviously didn't know everyone in his group (as there were a lot more players than he listed), but those were the likely favorites listed. So.
On July 10 2006 09:00 ObsoleteLogic wrote: Suncow never listed origin; he obviously didn't know everyone in his group (as there were a lot more players than he listed), but those were the likely favorites listed. So.
No but that he didnt list this guy mostly indicates that "origin" wasnt a big threat and not very well known since then his korean friends woulda knowned who he was + mentioned him to suncow ^^
On July 09 2006 22:10 Xeris wrote: rekrul quit long ago, and Assem had visa problems and had to go back to USA. I dunno if he will return to Korea though, hopefully he will, because he was pretty good, but he seemed to have peaked in his skill level, although he could have beaten any foreigner, he couldn't compete against progamers very often.
he was highly overrated, many foriegners could still beat him
On July 09 2006 22:10 Xeris wrote: rekrul quit long ago, and Assem had visa problems and had to go back to USA. I dunno if he will return to Korea though, hopefully he will, because he was pretty good, but he seemed to have peaked in his skill level, although he could have beaten any foreigner, he couldn't compete against progamers very often.
he was highly overrated, many foriegners could still beat him
His TvZ was definetly koreanized. I really don't think any foriegn Z stood a chance against him when he was in shape, or very little chance. I remember his Bo7 with breakdown.....if you want to call it a Bo7, lol;)
On July 09 2006 22:10 Xeris wrote: rekrul quit long ago, and Assem had visa problems and had to go back to USA. I dunno if he will return to Korea though, hopefully he will, because he was pretty good, but he seemed to have peaked in his skill level, although he could have beaten any foreigner, he couldn't compete against progamers very often.
he was highly overrated, many foriegners could still beat him
His TvZ was definetly koreanized. I really don't think any foriegn Z stood a chance against him when he was in shape, or very little chance. I remember his Bo7 with breakdown.....if you want to call it a Bo7, lol;)
yea, Assems tvz was the best outside of Korea, although I don't think he played vs. Mondragon. his pvt was definitely beatable though. dunno about his tvt.
On July 09 2006 22:10 Xeris wrote: rekrul quit long ago, and Assem had visa problems and had to go back to USA. I dunno if he will return to Korea though, hopefully he will, because he was pretty good, but he seemed to have peaked in his skill level, although he could have beaten any foreigner, he couldn't compete against progamers very often.
he was highly overrated, many foriegners could still beat him
His TvZ was definetly koreanized. I really don't think any foriegn Z stood a chance against him when he was in shape, or very little chance. I remember his Bo7 with breakdown.....if you want to call it a Bo7, lol;)
Ret.
But ye, he was the best, which he kinda proved in TLTour, minus the TvT final which he lost :D!!
On July 11 2006 02:42 PuertoRican wrote: yea, Assems tvz was the best outside of Korea, although I don't think he played vs. Mondragon. his pvt was definitely beatable though. dunno about his tvt.
not sure how he plays now.
Mondragon was bad at ZvT (compared to his ZvP). I hear he's good now O:
ret's tvz was at least as good as assem's i think. assem may have had better harass/timing but assems mins always spiked pretty high, ret's macro was more consistant and his harass/timing was far from bad in itself.
On July 11 2006 06:38 HungZerg wrote: ret's tvz was at least as good as assem's i think. assem may have had better harass/timing but assems mins always spiked pretty high, ret's macro was more consistant and his harass/timing was far from bad in itself.
maybe so but ret was too much of a one strat player. He had much more difficulties against players who knew how he played (always fast exp which everyone does today). Also I think ret was ahead of his time when fast exp was used and his timing was great
and from his replays he seemed have started using early defilers before any foreigner. He does use the same strats every game in his rep pack, zvt lurker ling to quick hive, defilers, ultras, same thing in zvp except quicker hive more ultras. However doesnt seem like toss can do anything about his style, same thing for terrans except maybe sk/2 port and better macro micro which is rare because his mid/late game macro is superb
think assem's tvt is pretty weak -_-; not so far behind is his tvp as well.
(Btw, assem totally raped mondragon in a series of games, I remember a certain firebat got like 24 kills on gaema gawon, forgot for which tourney though.)
On July 11 2006 14:00 QuietIdiot wrote: think assem's tvt is pretty weak -_-; not so far behind is his tvp as well.
(Btw, assem totally raped mondragon in a series of games, I remember a certain firebat got like 24 kills on gaema gawon, forgot for which tourney though.)
I'm 90% sure that was ELKY vs BLACKMAN. EDIT: Actually, I'm wrong, testie pointed this out in a loveable manner ;D
On July 11 2006 09:44 zulu_nation8 wrote: and from his replays he seemed have started using early defilers before any foreigner. He does use the same strats every game in his rep pack, zvt lurker ling to quick hive, defilers, ultras, same thing in zvp except quicker hive more ultras. However doesnt seem like toss can do anything about his style, same thing for terrans except maybe sk/2 port and better macro micro which is rare because his mid/late game macro is superb
no not ealier than paul, paul used defilers to defend, ret did normal 3 hatch lurkers but got hive really early and defilers to attack and spend gas, he can pull it off because of his macro and unit management
On July 11 2006 14:00 QuietIdiot wrote: think assem's tvt is pretty weak -_-; not so far behind is his tvp as well.
(Btw, assem totally raped mondragon in a series of games, I remember a certain firebat got like 24 kills on gaema gawon, forgot for which tourney though.)
I'm 90% sure that was ELKY vs BLACKMAN. EDIT: Actually, I'm wrong, testie pointed this out in a loveable manner ;D
On July 11 2006 14:00 QuietIdiot wrote: think assem's tvt is pretty weak -_-; not so far behind is his tvp as well.
(Btw, assem totally raped mondragon in a series of games, I remember a certain firebat got like 24 kills on gaema gawon, forgot for which tourney though.)
Didnt he do Relativly well against that russian who was supposed to be a tvt monster? He took a few games off of him. His tvp I dunno but his TvZ was really good.
If you think assem's tvt is weak you didnt see his game vs HovZ in wcg. That was pure fucking art. Sure comparing to HovZ isnt the best, but his tvt is regarded pretty damn good. It was a huge upset when A2 beat his ass in 2 series (maybe not such a upset in retrospect). His TvP was his weakness, aside from that he is a monster, tvt included.
I don't know. Draco is listed in Saturday's Group C, Suncow in Sunday's Group D, but someone from Siz told me they saw Suncow today and then scrolling up I saw something I didn't quite understand about Suncow in the 4th round. Beats me I'll try to get some more info out of Siz members that speak better English than I do Korean.
Edit: coco tells me Suncow lost in the 4th round today, but I think he might be confusing Cow and Draco. Not that they look anything alike, but if he didn't see their pictures and just heard "Polish player"
What the hell, Rekrul did you really offer bribes? I can find one named player in the whole of draco's group and I'm not even sure it's really him (I thought monodrama[3.33] was already pro, maybe it's someone with same name)
On August 05 2006 06:05 ObsoleteLogic wrote: I don't know. Draco is listed in Saturday's Group C, Suncow in Sunday's Group D, but someone from Siz told me they saw Suncow today and then scrolling up I saw something I didn't quite understand about Suncow in the 4th round. Beats me I'll try to get some more info out of Siz members that speak better English than I do Korean.
Edit: coco tells me Suncow lost in the 4th round today, but I think he might be confusing Cow and Draco. Not that they look anything alike, but if he didn't see their pictures and just heard "Polish player"
*shrug*
nope! see the player names list i posted! suncow played in today's group D, he's listed as 데이비드
no finepix is amateur but he is (was?) on P&C. all results i have i posted so i think draco is playing tomorrow and suncow played today unless they mixed the names up or something
[#41] Suncow 2006-08-05 16:42:36 moj wynik : 2-0 vs T win 2-0 vs T win 2-0 vs Z win 0-2 vs T Lomo[fOu] wszyscy mowili ze albo ja albo on , no coz trudno next time moze ..
I can't read it though. I'm really not sure why I installed Korean on this comp. I think it was just to see proper characters instead of ???? and @#%?!?@43@ on bnet...
a) when does draco's group start (specifically) and when should we know results? b) does anyone in the know (ie. rekrul, or whatever) know if they have been having test games with pro teams already, or when those will happen/how they work? What has been going on for them in korea, besides courage and afreeca leagues? we're all so in the dark
" me and draco lost in 4th round what can i say , i am very sad about it i tried my best but 17 terrans in my group i wouldnt say is an easy job to do but my score was : 2-0 vs T 2-0 vs T 2-0 vs Z 0-2 vs T i think its quiete acceptebale . "
well, practice buddy is pretty good considering the training and experiance he will get. Hope he reaches a new level before the next courage tournament!
On August 06 2006 09:18 Sabbath wrote: how many rounds are there in courage?
I dunno if it's the same everytime (I think it depends on the amount of entrants) but in this case it means he lost in the quarterfinals - 8 players left.
They are making good progress though. I believe they can do it. They have shown no signs saying they aren't inept. Draco and Suncow are both pretty impressive and I still hope for the best for them. We need some white boys to shake it up.
actually I heard suncow left siz house coz he got in a fight with some ppl or something... dunno more than that but my source was quiet reliable ;O not 100% though!
Suncow gets in fights with everyone. I expect that someone better than him told him he has to improve and he threw his usual temper tantrum about how he is the best and blahblahblah.
On August 06 2006 19:20 DaZe wrote: actually I heard suncow left siz house coz he got in a fight with some ppl or something... dunno more than that but my source was quiet reliable ;O not 100% though!
ya but then he realized he was broke and had to apologize and move back in or somethin.
On August 07 2006 07:46 SuperJongMan wrote: He can use white boy charm to help those guys get some girls. Then it will all be good. He should go bookin with them
black boy he is not white or polish for that matter he just has the citizenship
On August 07 2006 07:46 SuperJongMan wrote: He can use white boy charm to help those guys get some girls. Then it will all be good. He should go bookin with them
black boy he is not white or polish for that matter he just has the citizenship
On August 07 2006 07:46 SuperJongMan wrote: He can use white boy charm to help those guys get some girls. Then it will all be good. He should go bookin with them
black boy he is not white or polish for that matter he just has the citizenship
He's not black. He's arabic. And he is Polish. So what that he was born somwhere else, he speaks very fluent polish, he used to play for POL-Team, and he feels polish. What more do you need?
EDIT: Yeah Musli he ment Draco, but 8822 was talkin about Zerg.
On August 07 2006 16:25 8882 wrote: he is not polish. he has polish citizenship. I speak german, does it make me german? lol
and if someone was black and played for korean football team, would it make him korean? no you dumbass, he would still be black
some random nigger from africa got the citizenshp too and played for our football team, but he still is a random nigger and definitely not polish
a polish person is someone whose parents are polish
your parents didn´t teach you how to talk about other ppl, you shouldnt have any cititzenship than i guess since there isn´t a "nation of faggots" made yet.
On August 07 2006 16:25 8882 wrote: he is not polish. he has polish citizenship. I speak german, does it make me german? lol
and if someone was black and played for korean football team, would it make him korean? no you dumbass, he would still be black
some random nigger from africa got the citizenshp too and played for our football team, but he still is a random nigger and definitely not polish
a polish person is someone whose parents are polish
After I read you "inteligent" posts explaining what does it mean to be Polish. I came to only one conculsion, that you are a racist. And you make Polish people look bad on TL.net. Not everyone is like you so pls STFU, or write somethin thoughtful.
On August 07 2006 16:25 8882 wrote: he is not polish. he has polish citizenship. I speak german, does it make me german? lol
Why am I not surprised you speak german?
and if someone was black and played for korean football team, would it make him korean? no you dumbass, he would still be black
some random nigger from africa got the citizenshp too and played for our football team, but he still is a random nigger and definitely not polish
a polish person is someone whose parents are polish
How many generations? What do you know, maybe suncow's parents were born in poland.
Maybe I'm not swedish, because my grandfather is english?
On August 07 2006 17:32 thedeadhaji wrote: So the Seattle Seahawks have a player who is 1/2 black and 1/2 korean. I think he grew up there for the first few years of his life iirc.
The question is, what would 8882 call him? :O
Well, he sure as hell isn't white so I'm betting it wouldn't be pleasant :D
And the reason no-one has banned 8882 yet is that he's BM and racist in such a completely.. I don't know how to put it, you just go like 'WOW, that was so racist.. lol'.
8882 you are a fucking cunt. I'm sorry if someone disagrees with me, but racism is just absolutely intolerable as far as I'm concerned. I hope a mod agrees.
No need to flame 8882 really. In fact, if you ask a first generation or second generation immigrant wether they feel completely assimilated, just like the stereotype citizen of that particular nation, I'm sure nearly all of them would say - nah. The feeling is often that they are both nationalities or neither. That is what my friends think and feel on the matter that aren't "completely swedish" in lack of a better term.
Another normal and common reaction is that immigrants and minorities often become rather patriotic to their parents nation or their ancestors heritage and take some sort of pride in their difference. I can't really say if it's true pride or a reaction to their own difference compared to the stereotype citizens.
My personal take on things? If you are an: - immigrant you are a citizen of that nation after a certain time, but I wouldn't go as far as to call an immigrant swedish normally. - generation immigrant, then I would consider that person a swede if that person himself considers himself a swede and masters the language, ie not the familys language mother tongue. If that person would still have a strong accent and raised with different cultural values, then I would probably consider that person just as he is, a generation immigrant rather than a swede.
See, nothing rascist about that. Just common sense. Also, while looks may have an impact on how others perceive them, I prefer to go by how they perceive themselves. But in the end, I don't think anyone instinctively would consider an african generation immigrant a swede even if his swedish was perfect.
In history, what finally seems to determine these things is assimilation, in language, culture and looks. This happens over several generations, not just because your passport says so.
To me, that is just plain common sense. Not racism. The end.
Edit: Oh, and don't compare european countries with longer histories to the US, which is a new construct and a different kind of nation built on immigrants from varying nationalities, cultures and genepools from the get go and a very short history to boot.
On August 07 2006 07:46 SuperJongMan wrote: He can use white boy charm to help those guys get some girls. Then it will all be good. He should go bookin with them
black boy he is not white or polish for that matter he just has the citizenship
He's not black. He's arabic. And he is Polish. So what that he was born somwhere else, he speaks very fluent polish, he used to play for POL-Team, and he feels polish. What more do you need?
EDIT: Yeah Musli he ment Draco, but 8822 was talkin about Zerg.
yay 4 polish people. tl.net is starting to be like chicago feel the love <3
On August 07 2006 18:17 Luhh wrote: No need to flame 8882 really. In fact, if you ask a first generation or second generation immigrant wether they feel completely assimilated, just like the stereotype citizen of that particular nation, I'm sure nearly all of them would say - nah. The feeling is often that they are both nationalities or neither. That is what my friends think and feel on the matter that aren't "completely swedish" in lack of a better term.
Another normal and common reaction is that immigrants and minorities often become rather patriotic to their parents nation or their ancestors heritage and take some sort of pride in their difference. I can't really say if it's true pride or a reaction to their own difference compared to the stereotype citizens.
My personal take on things? If you are an: - immigrant you are a citizen of that nation after a certain time, but I wouldn't go as far as to call an immigrant swedish normally. - generation immigrant, then I would consider that person a swede if that person himself considers himself a swede and masters the language, ie not the familys language mother tongue. If that person would still have a strong accent and raised with different cultural values, then I would probably consider that person just as he is, a generation immigrant rather than a swede.
See, nothing rascist about that. Just common sense. Also, while looks may have an impact on how others perceive them, I prefer to go by how they perceive themselves. But in the end, I don't think anyone instinctively would consider an african generation immigrant a swede even if his swedish was perfect.
In history, what finally seems to determine these things is assimilation, in language, culture and looks. This happens over several generations, not just because your passport says so.
To me, that is just plain common sense. Not racism. The end.
Edit: Oh, and don't compare european countries with longer histories to the US, which is a new construct and a different kind of nation built on immigrants from varying nationalities, cultures and genepools from the get go and a very short history to boot.
Hello he spammed "nigger" -- people aren't pissed with his opinion on what makes you Polish and what doesn't. He un-necessarily threw nigger into his argument when he could've just as easily said "a black man" in his example.
Not just that. He strongly implied that 'niggers' were lesser than normal poles. The whole post was racist.
you guys are confused. poles arent better than "niggers" there better then every1 now plz start a new thread about banning 8882 and some1 find out what team draco is on. Im going on a 1 week pilgrimage tomorrow and i might shot myself if i dont find out!
Oh, well I guess that's not particularly nice, but really now, how many of those crying out for ban actually took personal offense? Political correctness doesn't need to be enforced all the time. TL-net would be too much like other forums then.
I mean I don't care even if he was a rascist (he's probably not and just used the term to troll those who might take offense or prefer PC themselves).
*yawn* Way off topic.
OT: Best of luck to white niggah Draco in his quest for blue eyed supremacy Guillaume style in Korea, and we'll probably see suncow in WCG later on as well.
On August 07 2006 18:43 Luhh wrote: Oh, well I guess that's not particularly nice, but really now, how many of those crying out for ban actually took personal offense? Political correctness doesn't need to be enforced all the time. TL-net would be too much like other forums then.
I mean I don't care even if he was a rascist (he's probably not and just used the term to troll those who might take offense or prefer PC themselves).
*yawn* Way off topic.
OT: Best of luck to white niggah Draco in his quest for blue eyed supremacy Guillaume style in Korea, and we'll probably see suncow in WCG later on as well.
ya looks like draco might not participate in WCG. Ahwell, its good that ther're not in the same tourneys like when draco played dreamhack and suncow was in the polish cup(?)
sometimes I really wish some people finally learned the usage of 'then' and 'than' ~~; nationality is given by your birth place as far as I know, and based solely on it. it doesnt define you in any way as well. you can be born in USA, got japanese mother and swedish father, and its up to you to decide which country you feel is your home. usually its the one you were brought up in, from which you have your childhood memories etc, etc. it has nothing to do with the color of your skin, your name, or anything else besides your feelings. so please, ban the racists from this topic, dont sink these boards level even more.
882 deserves to get flamed because instead of saying "Some random black dude" or "some random african immigrant" he chose to use the racist and derogatory term "nigger" which goes completely against the (Seemingly) forgotten commandments of this very forum
8882 grow the fuck up. This is a forum for kidding around and being immature at times, but if your going to be some random racist, leave.
8882 is pretty stupid and imo should be banned, if nothing else to make an example that we arent gonna let it slide just because he has thousands of posts. I feel uncomfortable just being on the same forum as someone who practices such ignorance.
On August 07 2006 18:17 Luhh wrote: No need to flame 8882 really. In fact, if you ask a first generation or second generation immigrant wether they feel completely assimilated, just like the stereotype citizen of that particular nation, I'm sure nearly all of them would say - nah. The feeling is often that they are both nationalities or neither. That is what my friends think and feel on the matter that aren't "completely swedish" in lack of a better term.
Another normal and common reaction is that immigrants and minorities often become rather patriotic to their parents nation or their ancestors heritage and take some sort of pride in their difference. I can't really say if it's true pride or a reaction to their own difference compared to the stereotype citizens.
My personal take on things? If you are an: - immigrant you are a citizen of that nation after a certain time, but I wouldn't go as far as to call an immigrant swedish normally. - generation immigrant, then I would consider that person a swede if that person himself considers himself a swede and masters the language, ie not the familys language mother tongue. If that person would still have a strong accent and raised with different cultural values, then I would probably consider that person just as he is, a generation immigrant rather than a swede.
See, nothing rascist about that. Just common sense. Also, while looks may have an impact on how others perceive them, I prefer to go by how they perceive themselves. But in the end, I don't think anyone instinctively would consider an african generation immigrant a swede even if his swedish was perfect.
In history, what finally seems to determine these things is assimilation, in language, culture and looks. This happens over several generations, not just because your passport says so.
To me, that is just plain common sense. Not racism. The end.
Edit: Oh, and don't compare european countries with longer histories to the US, which is a new construct and a different kind of nation built on immigrants from varying nationalities, cultures and genepools from the get go and a very short history to boot.
Are you crazy? Not racism? He said that black people from Poland are just "random niggers." This is all rationalization of racist neo-nazi intolerance... He is using racial signifiers, not national ones (ie. "no blacks can be polish" etc.). Let's just be clear: the discussion is NOT over, and you have not conclusively shown anything to dissuade anyone from acknowledging racist statements.
On August 07 2006 16:25 8882 wrote: he is not polish. he has polish citizenship. I speak german, does it make me german? lol
and if someone was black and played for korean football team, would it make him korean? no you dumbass, he would still be black
some random nigger from africa got the citizenshp too and played for our football team, but he still is a random nigger and definitely not polish
a polish person is someone whose parents are polish
your parents didn´t teach you how to talk about other ppl, you shouldnt have any cititzenship than i guess since there isn´t a "nation of faggots" made yet.
I feel just as much frustration about this as you do, but let's try to avoid shifting from one form of bigotry to another.
After reading a few of the various posts regarding his post, let me point something out. The hate is just oozing out of every inch of his post. Its disgusting that someone would have so much hate for someone without knowing them simply because of their skin.
The fact is that if you grow up in poland, you will feel polish, have polish traits, and feel at home much more than suncow would in saudia arabia or wherever he is originaly from. Thus the term 'african american' is more acceptable than african or nigger as you so kindly decided to blurt out. I have no problem with people using the word nigger, but when it becomes a word of hate as it has in this instance, then it is not acceptable.
On August 07 2006 17:02 Ilvy wrote: your parents didn´t teach you how to talk about other ppl, you shouldnt have any cititzenship than i guess since there isn´t a "nation of faggots" made yet.
I feel just as much frustration about this as you do, but let's try to avoid shifting from one form of bigotry to another.
yes. i agree. glad i'm not the only one. ageism also big on these forums. ageism and homophobia that is, and big as in popular.
That was really poor. I'm black and it kinda hurts too know that 8822 would make such a racist statement on tl.net. That statement was really uncalled for and deserves a ban.
On August 07 2006 22:50 WOstick wrote: fucking asshole
8882 is a _fucking asshole_ because of his opinion (which I share) ? Please grow up and improve your insults.
Joppe, unless you're a neo-nazi you DON'T. No, I'm not basing this on this post alone - 8882 is just very racist and likes germans so..
Im no nazi, but you gotta respect other peoples (for you, conservative) opinions.
If I agree on a difference between being polish and having polish citizenship, yes. If I agree that a random black man gets bought and plays for polen is not polish, yes. If I agree that its hard to call someone polish whos parents are not from polen and speaks bad polish, yes.
i find that draco plays a little too safe, which gives him a disadvantage vs koreans. however, once his micro and decision making is up to par, i think he will be an excellent player
On August 07 2006 22:50 WOstick wrote: fucking asshole
8882 is a _fucking asshole_ because of his opinion (which I share) ? Please grow up and improve your insults.
Joppe, unless you're a neo-nazi you DON'T. No, I'm not basing this on this post alone - 8882 is just very racist and likes germans so..
Im no nazi, but you gotta respect other peoples (for you, conservative) opinions.
If I agree on a difference between being polish and having polish citizenship, yes. If I agree that a random black man gets bought and plays for polen is not polish, yes. If I agree that its hard to call someone polish whos parents are not from polen and speaks bad polish, yes.
You have a point there, but still you are being fucking irrational.
Calling a black person, "some nigger" is fucking bad, that word should not be used to insult, and no from a person who does not know them.
If you are supporting the way he is using that word, then fuck you.
ie, they don't have a lot of big names yet, but they have a lot of raw talent (IMO). It seems like the perfect place for an up-and-coming player to be.
EvilTeletubby, it's Testie. I use capital letters and punctuation, IdrA does not.
Well me vs Hidden.. fairly standard 2-0 TvP on Luna. He played well but I just kinda trapped him in his choke as he tried to bust out while mining himself out. Intense kinda micro-war game there as I kept trying to finish him and he kept beating me back. I think both games were like that if I remember right.
Me vs Chalrenge.. hmm, there was the RR on gosugamers.. and lots of games. He kind of reminds me of Stork in his play. Very amazing at everything, and a well rounded and smart player. (Not very cheesey) with a lot of confidence in his play. We used to be good friends until he turned pro, and now he ignores me to play with JulyZerg... he's kind of let it go to his head imo. Most pro's aren't like that and continue to play with you. But it's not all his doing, his coach says he must only game with certain people as well. So shrug, i'm not one to judge. Lost, and won, a lot of games to Chalrenge though. He's very, very good. Though he may not be as good as Stork, he is close and similar in play. (Or was when I played with him a lot). Imo he's someone to keep an eye on as he's very, very good.
Hidden seems a little more simple, (though he may have improved) and isn't as well rounded, as smart, or simply as good as Chalrenge. But, he's fairly solid as well.
Ah, gotcha. Yeah, I've never really even heard of Chalrenge before, how recently did he become progamer then? Not that long ago I assume? I know I haven't seen him in the proleague yet unless he uses a different aka.
Also if you want everyone to know you're Nick, where are all the smilies? ^_^
Hm, he passed courage quite a while ago i'm sure. Perhaps a year-10months-8months? Don't know, i'd have to ask. I do not remember the exact month, but after playing him I was sure he'd pass courage and get on a pro team. And, he did shortly after. But yeah, when playing stork and playing Chalrenge, he kind of reminded me of Stork.
On August 08 2006 10:14 HungZerg wrote: Hm, he passed courage quite a while ago i'm sure. Perhaps a year-10months-8months? Don't know, i'd have to ask. I do not remember the exact month, but after playing him I was sure he'd pass courage and get on a pro team. And, he did shortly after. But yeah, when playing stork and playing Chalrenge, he kind of reminded me of Stork.
He didn't pass courage, he - and hidden as well I think.. at least n.die_attack also did it this way - got his license by qualifying for the second round of the KESPA cup about 10 months ago.
They were the amateur team that made it the farthest I think.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://slaman.wz.cz/daron2.jpg)
