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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 02 2017 19:02 GMT
#140301
I will say that if you travel back several years, this thread was far more civil. The snark and level of discourse is a reflection of the political climate. You can say that we should strive to be better than that, but I’m no longer convinced that is healthy. Lately the most productive discussions in this thread have been the snarky ones. GH and I almost agreed on something last time.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 02 2017 19:04 GMT
#140302
On March 03 2017 04:01 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2017 04:00 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/schiff-doj-235615

So this happened.

Adam Schiff, along with his co-Cali-Rep Maxine Waters, are known bumbling idiots on the matter of Russia.

Thank you for the RT talking points comrade, your food ration is in the mail.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
March 02 2017 19:13 GMT
#140303
On March 03 2017 04:01 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2017 04:00 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/schiff-doj-235615

So this happened.

Adam Schiff, along with his co-Cali-Rep Maxine Waters, are known bumbling idiots on the matter of Russia.

Take back this outrageous piece of fake news at two of my state's national representatives.

He's a nondescript bumbling idiot, she's so funny and such a gold mine of quotable lines (CIA crack cocaine, I was a millennial once, socializing ... wait what is it when the government runs all your companies?). So don't confuse a national treasure with Schiff.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
ShoCkeyy
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
7815 Posts
March 02 2017 19:15 GMT
#140304
On thing I do notice from the right is that they're quick to call everyone idiots, stupid, and morons.
Life?
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-02 19:17:09
March 02 2017 19:16 GMT
#140305
On March 03 2017 04:15 ShoCkeyy wrote:
On thing I do notice from the right is that they're quick to call everyone idiots, stupid, and morons.

Meh, the left probably does that more. Though racist/sexist/xenophobic also makes up an important part of their vocabulary.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42694 Posts
March 02 2017 19:18 GMT
#140306
On March 03 2017 04:16 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2017 04:15 ShoCkeyy wrote:
On thing I do notice from the right is that they're quick to call everyone idiots, stupid, and morons.

Meh, the left probably does that more.

and that's why I voted Trump!

sigh
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
March 02 2017 19:18 GMT
#140307
On March 03 2017 04:13 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2017 04:01 LegalLord wrote:
On March 03 2017 04:00 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/schiff-doj-235615

So this happened.

Adam Schiff, along with his co-Cali-Rep Maxine Waters, are known bumbling idiots on the matter of Russia.

Take back this outrageous piece of fake news at two of my state's national representatives.

He's a nondescript bumbling idiot, she's so funny and such a gold mine of quotable lines (CIA crack cocaine, I was a millennial once, socializing ... wait what is it when the government runs all your companies?). So don't confuse a national treasure with Schiff.

Schiff isn't nearly as funny as Waters, I'll give you that.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 02 2017 19:19 GMT
#140308
On March 03 2017 04:16 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2017 04:15 ShoCkeyy wrote:
On thing I do notice from the right is that they're quick to call everyone idiots, stupid, and morons.

Meh, the left probably does that more. Though racist/sexist/xenophobic also makes up an important part of their vocabulary.

As long as the left is worse, am I right? They should stick to the moral high ground where they belong.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
ShoCkeyy
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
7815 Posts
March 02 2017 19:19 GMT
#140309
On March 03 2017 04:16 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2017 04:15 ShoCkeyy wrote:
On thing I do notice from the right is that they're quick to call everyone idiots, stupid, and morons.

Meh, the left probably does that more. Though racist/sexist/xenophobic also makes up an important part of their vocabulary.


As a person in the middle, I see the right use it far more times than the left. You choose to ignore the right's usage on it, not going to argue with you there.
Life?
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
March 02 2017 19:20 GMT
#140310
RealityIsKing
Profile Joined August 2016
613 Posts
March 02 2017 19:20 GMT
#140311
On March 03 2017 04:15 ShoCkeyy wrote:
On thing I do notice from the right is that they're quick to call everyone idiots, stupid, and morons.


Most of the time they are right though.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
March 02 2017 19:20 GMT
#140312
On March 03 2017 04:19 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2017 04:16 LegalLord wrote:
On March 03 2017 04:15 ShoCkeyy wrote:
On thing I do notice from the right is that they're quick to call everyone idiots, stupid, and morons.

Meh, the left probably does that more. Though racist/sexist/xenophobic also makes up an important part of their vocabulary.


As a person in the middle, I see the right use it far more times than the left. You choose to ignore the right's usage on it, not going to argue with you there.

I dunno, I'd probably also fall in the middle?

I just don't think that calling someone an idiot is the right's insult of choice. Liar or crook seems to be more common.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11513 Posts
March 02 2017 19:22 GMT
#140313
On March 03 2017 04:19 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2017 04:16 LegalLord wrote:
On March 03 2017 04:15 ShoCkeyy wrote:
On thing I do notice from the right is that they're quick to call everyone idiots, stupid, and morons.

Meh, the left probably does that more. Though racist/sexist/xenophobic also makes up an important part of their vocabulary.


As a person in the middle, I see the right use it far more times than the left. You choose to ignore the right's usage on it, not going to argue with you there.


I am pretty sure that even if you think you are in the center, a bunch of people are gonna call you a "regressive leftist" or something along those lines. From what i have seen over the last few months, everyone but the most right-wing of right-wingers are "leftists", "regressive leftists" or "the left"
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-02 19:24:31
March 02 2017 19:23 GMT
#140314
On March 03 2017 04:20 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2017 04:19 ShoCkeyy wrote:
On March 03 2017 04:16 LegalLord wrote:
On March 03 2017 04:15 ShoCkeyy wrote:
On thing I do notice from the right is that they're quick to call everyone idiots, stupid, and morons.

Meh, the left probably does that more. Though racist/sexist/xenophobic also makes up an important part of their vocabulary.


As a person in the middle, I see the right use it far more times than the left. You choose to ignore the right's usage on it, not going to argue with you there.

I dunno, I'd probably also fall in the middle?

I just don't think that calling someone an idiot is the right's insult of choice. Liar or crook seems to be more common.

You are hilarious. Having no political views doesn’t put you in the middle, Burr.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
ShoCkeyy
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
7815 Posts
March 02 2017 19:24 GMT
#140315
On March 03 2017 04:20 RealityIsKing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2017 04:15 ShoCkeyy wrote:
On thing I do notice from the right is that they're quick to call everyone idiots, stupid, and morons.


Most of the time they are right though.


How are they right? The people I approach about name calling can't even back their own "facts" or sit to debate without getting mad, aggressive, and this is on both sides. But I've definitely have had more issues with right wingers because they choose to believe in their narrative without accepting new facts, where lefts choose to believe their narrative, and accept new facts.
Life?
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
March 02 2017 19:24 GMT
#140316
Someone a day or two ago was commenting on the need for fox news level liberal leaning equivalent media outlets. They exist, they just aren't as popular/influential - specifically The Young Turks and Democracy Now. Both of which lean much further left than the democratic party, actually, leading them to pick fights with it a lot (and DN is much more of a real news organization than Fox anyways).
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42694 Posts
March 02 2017 19:26 GMT
#140317
On March 03 2017 04:20 RealityIsKing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2017 04:15 ShoCkeyy wrote:
On thing I do notice from the right is that they're quick to call everyone idiots, stupid, and morons.


Most of the time they are right though.

Thus explaining why rural high school dropouts dominate the right and urban educated elitists dominate the left. After all, it has long been established that educational achievements and intelligence are broadly correlated. The right don't dispute it, they simply view it as a reverse correlation.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-02 19:29:21
March 02 2017 19:27 GMT
#140318
On March 03 2017 04:19 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2017 04:16 LegalLord wrote:
On March 03 2017 04:15 ShoCkeyy wrote:
On thing I do notice from the right is that they're quick to call everyone idiots, stupid, and morons.

Meh, the left probably does that more. Though racist/sexist/xenophobic also makes up an important part of their vocabulary.


As a person in the middle, I see the right use it far more times than the left. You choose to ignore the right's usage on it, not going to argue with you there.

Two people in the middle disagreeing on who uses it more. A pretty big tell that you're in the middle lol.

Go back in the thread and research the beginning of the acrimony and see which parties were involved.

Actually, let me know what parts of the (historical) Republican platform you agree with.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
March 02 2017 19:31 GMT
#140319
On March 03 2017 04:00 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2017 03:43 Gorsameth wrote:
On March 03 2017 03:41 Danglars wrote:
On March 03 2017 03:26 xDaunt wrote:
On March 03 2017 03:17 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
On March 03 2017 03:14 KwarK wrote:
On March 03 2017 03:03 xDaunt wrote:
On March 03 2017 02:33 Danglars wrote:

Skepticism at WaPo.

No fucking shit they are overplaying their hand. This is #fakenews in action for all of the reasons that I detailed last night. And the insidious effect of it is obvious for all to see. People are reading the first 2-3 paragraphs of that shitty WashPo article and presuming that there's a huge problem without really digging into the rest of the article where the shortcomings of the narrative become brutally apparent. And don't for a moment think that the timing of this article wasn't deliberate. This #fakenews narrative was launched precisely to derail Trump's momentum from his speech on Tuesday.

1) Sessions, part of the Trump election campaign chose to have a private meeting with Russian intelligence.
2) Russian intelligence chose to actively intervene in the US election to favour the Trump campaign.
3) The Trump administration then sacrificed American geopolitical interests to offer concessions to Russia.
4) Sessions stated "I did not have communications with the Russians", a statement which can be demonstrated not to be true by the fact that he held a private meeting with Russian intelligence.

Those four are established facts. I know you struggle a lot with facts these days but not all of us are suffering from that particular handicap.

I find your snarkiness seriously irritating. If you want to change someone's mind, this is no way to do it.

The amusing part is that the snarkiness is badly misplaced. I'm the one who delved into the facts. Not Kwark. As usual, he can't even relay the facts accurately and completely.

Humorous angle on "Russian intelligence" instead of ambassador. Senators routinely have foreign ambassadors coming through their offices, both as senior members on panels and just as senators. Ask any Senate staffer, the one I happened to read called it a constant flow. And people think Sessions should be an exception given Russian hacking. He probably should've disclosed and definitely shouldn't have volunteered no meetings (Franken) even if the context was campaign staff and the 2016 election. Calling it Russian intelligence is factual misrepresentation of an actual named post and dignitary.

Sacrificed geopolitical interests to offer concessions to Russia? Kwark must be on about Obama. Newsflash: facts differ from interpretations, which is why you probably would disagree with Obama doing he same on Syrian red line or in communication with Medvedev (infamous hot mic).

Except not a single other member of the Armed Service Committee met with a Russian ambassador during 2016 and atleast one has commented that they never called/met (in the capacity of the Armed Service Committee). That all went through the foreign office.

That's a big change from up to 30 Senate Democrats that met with Russian officials in 2015. Sorry, let me update my rhetoric to match the current tone. McCaskill and others announcing their support for the Iran deal mere days after secret meetings with Russian officials. Waiting for the probe of what really went on behind closed doors. But I'm well aware of things that were fine in 2015 turning sinister in 2016. Because you lost an election.

Now, go contact Democratic Senator Ed Markey. Ask what really went on when he was partying with the Russian Ambassador at the French ambassadors residence. Or wait, that was 2016 so clearly they were at the same party and never met. Absolutely absurd, Senators are involved in treaties and ambassadors are representatives of foreign governments.


With the Iran deal, Russia was on our "team", and we were coordinating with them. It was a 6 or 7 nation deal. Sessions meets with the Russian ambassador/spy at the worst possible time. And it's part of a pattern with team Trump. Pretty partisan to brush it off.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-02 19:33:14
March 02 2017 19:32 GMT
#140320
I'm glad that, looking at the way the Benghazi matter went, Democrats here essentially decided, "I want to have one of those too except on Republicans we don't like!!!@!@!"

Since that's probably the most reasonable way to interpret the Sessions issue.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
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