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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-19 03:53:41
February 19 2017 03:50 GMT
#138381
Milo won't engage in a moderated debate for that very reason. He just wants to speak and show insults until his time is up.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Nemireck
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1875 Posts
February 19 2017 04:09 GMT
#138382
On February 19 2017 12:50 Plansix wrote:
Milo won't engage in a moderated debate for that very reason. He just wants to speak and show insults until his time is up.


It doesn't necessarily need to be moderated though, in my opinion anyway. Even 10 minutes in Overtime was enough to really throw him off message and have him resort to making inflammatory statements rather than cogent arguments. The more people attempt to be reasonable with him while he cranks of the inflammodial, the more he gets exposed. I was actually disappointed with Wilmore when he resorted to "go fuck yourself Milo." because that's exactly the reaction Milo is looking for when he begins to use those tactics.

I'd just like to see more response to his claims and less "Milo is a Nazi, boycott and riot!" Because reasoned response is so much more effective.
Teamwork is awesome... As long as your team is doing all the work!
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-19 04:15:32
February 19 2017 04:14 GMT
#138383
On February 19 2017 13:09 Nemireck wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 19 2017 12:50 Plansix wrote:
Milo won't engage in a moderated debate for that very reason. He just wants to speak and show insults until his time is up.


It doesn't necessarily need to be moderated though, in my opinion anyway. Even 10 minutes in Overtime was enough to really throw him off message and have him resort to making inflammatory statements rather than cogent arguments. The more people attempt to be reasonable with him while he cranks of the inflammodial, the more he gets exposed. I was actually disappointed with Wilmore when he resorted to "go fuck yourself Milo." because that's exactly the reaction Milo is looking for when he begins to use those tactics.

I'd just like to see more response to his claims and less "Milo is a Nazi, boycott and riot!" Because reasoned response is so much more effective.

reasoned response is indeed effective; but it's quite hard to maintain composure in the face of endless obnoxiousness. it takes a lot of patience, and can be trying on the willpower. I guess we'd want to select people to debate him who specialize in that.

I wonder what his supporters make of how he did in this case.

the main use of moderation is it means you don't need to have super patience.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
February 19 2017 04:15 GMT
#138384
On February 19 2017 12:50 Nebuchad wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 19 2017 12:46 Nemireck wrote:
Milo definitely looked out of his element in the Overtime segment when placed against a panel of intelligent people responding to his commentary. He's so used to the knee-jerk reactions from journalists and activists (and 20 year-old college kids) that when faced with real counter-points, he gets knocked around a little.

This is why he must be confronted and debated, rather than shut down by riots and protest. The more he has to face REAL opposition, the less effective his message becomes. Every time he gets shut out by riots/protest, it adds credibility to his ridiculous claims.

Ironically enough, if people just allowed him to speak and responded with intelligent criticism, their goal of making him irrelevant again would be achieved much quicker than the current strategies being employed by those that don't like him.

He's just a much more inflammatory version of the Stephen Colbert character. Real, true debate makes it easier to see (even if he doesn't operate in good faith, the debate itself exposes him for what he is... a character).


I mean, you're not wrong, but most of the people who are going to come to that conclusion didn't need to watch him debate on TV to come to that conclusion. I'm more concerned about how many of the people are going to go "Oh shit transgender people commit more sex crimes? And the news never told us that, fucking fake news" and then add that belief to their little list.

He did this very disingenuous thing. What he said was true - Transgender people are involved in more sexual crimes. What he failed to mention is that they're more involved because they're extremely frequently the victims of sexual crimes.
thePunGun
Profile Blog Joined January 2016
598 Posts
February 19 2017 04:16 GMT
#138385
Well to be fair, when Milo interrupted the guy, they insisted to let him finish. But they on the other hand interrupted Milo whenever he was trying to make a point.
I'm neither a fan of Milo, republicans or liberals and some of their social justice zealots, because they don't live up to their own standards.
"You cannot teach a man anything, you can only help him find it within himself."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-19 04:27:59
February 19 2017 04:26 GMT
#138386
On February 19 2017 13:09 Nemireck wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 19 2017 12:50 Plansix wrote:
Milo won't engage in a moderated debate for that very reason. He just wants to speak and show insults until his time is up.


It doesn't necessarily need to be moderated though, in my opinion anyway. Even 10 minutes in Overtime was enough to really throw him off message and have him resort to making inflammatory statements rather than cogent arguments. The more people attempt to be reasonable with him while he cranks of the inflammodial, the more he gets exposed. I was actually disappointed with Wilmore when he resorted to "go fuck yourself Milo." because that's exactly the reaction Milo is looking for when he begins to use those tactics.

I'd just like to see more response to his claims and less "Milo is a Nazi, boycott and riot!" Because reasoned response is so much more effective.

It absolutely needs to be moderated. Milo is a shameless husker that and does not debate in good faith. Even if he engaged in moderated debate, he would just declare the moderator biased after the fact. But he won anyways even with the bias moderator. The debate doesn't matter to Milo as much as declaring that he won after the fact.

And you have to tell Milo to go fuck himself, he is an insufferable prick. That is how he debates in bad faith, he baits people and tries to get a rise out of them, because he is shameless and doesn't give a fuck. He abuses the very concept of civil debate so he can declare he won.

And can we not clutch our pearls when someone drops the F-bomb during a debate. Sometimes people are assholes and get called assholes. Lets not forget that Milo said trans-people have a mental disorder and are ill. But he didn't use the F-bomb, so it wasn't that offense.

zlefin: His supporters think he did amazing under unfair odds, as normal. Milo can't lose, only win against impossible odds.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
DannyJ
Profile Joined March 2010
United States5110 Posts
February 19 2017 04:42 GMT
#138387
It's disturbing that people that were once relegated to screaming and/or trolling on internet comment sections are now main stream discussion participators.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-19 04:49:04
February 19 2017 04:48 GMT
#138388
On February 19 2017 13:42 DannyJ wrote:
It's disturbing that people that were once relegated to screaming and/or trolling on internet comment sections are now main stream discussion participators.

it is indeed, but it makes sense. such people, get views/ratings, and hence money.
people tend to prefer listening to screaming matches than to thoughtful debate.
Not sure how to get people to change their tastes on the matter, nor the extent to which people even want to.
pesky structural forces.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
February 19 2017 04:50 GMT
#138389
Carrier in SCS for some random show of force.
U.S. carrier group patrols in tense South China Sea | Reuters

Sailors man the rails as the USS Carl Vinson aircraft carrier departs on deployment from Naval Station North Island in Coronado, California, U.S. January 5, 2017. REUTERS/Mike Blake
A United States aircraft carrier strike group has begun patrols in the South China Sea amid growing tension with China over control of the disputed waterway and concerns it could become a flashpoint under the new U.S. administration.

China's Foreign Ministry on Wednesday warned Washington against challenging its sovereignty in the South China Sea.

The U.S. navy said the force, including Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson, began routine operations in the South China Sea on Saturday. The announcement was posted on the Vinson's Facebook page.

The strike group's commander, Rear Admiral James Kilby, said that weeks of training in the Pacific had improved the group's effectiveness and readiness.

"We are looking forward to demonstrating those capabilities while building upon existing strong relationships with our allies, partners and friends in the Indo-Asia-Pacific region," he was quoted as saying by the Navy News Service.

Friction between the United States and China over trade and territory under U.S. President Donald Trump have increased concerns that the South China Sea could become a flashpoint.

China wrapped up its own naval exercises in the South China Sea on Friday. War games involving its own aircraft carrier have unnerved neighbors with which it has long-running territorial disputes.

China lays claim to almost all of the resource-rich South China Sea, through which about $5 trillion worth of trade passes each year.

Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam also claim parts of the waters that command strategic sea lanes and have rich fishing grounds, along with oil and gas deposits.

The United States has criticized Beijing's construction of man-made islands and build-up of military facilities in the sea, and expressed concern they could be used to restrict free movement.

(Reporting by Matthew Tostevin)

Source

I wouldn't say it's huge news, but I'm sure some people are interested in figuring out what Trump's troop deployments are up to.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14159 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-19 04:53:12
February 19 2017 04:51 GMT
#138390
You give Milo way too much credit if you consider him a main stream discussion participant. At best hes a jester that targets the hate speech-free speech divide among progressives.

In much more real news china cut off its imports of north korean coal. Man if you though chinese coal miners had a freakish 19 century helljob just imagine how bad it has to be in north korea.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
February 19 2017 04:53 GMT
#138391
I don't know why people keep making this a free speech issue. Even given the lax US interpretation free speech means that the government doesn't lock you up for speaking your mind, it doesn't mean you need to tolerate every clown in every location. That is simply insane.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24143 Posts
February 19 2017 04:58 GMT
#138392
On February 19 2017 13:42 DannyJ wrote:
It's disturbing that people that were once relegated to screaming and/or trolling on internet comment sections are now main stream discussion participators.


This is how you move the Overton window away from policy and toward hate mongering.

I honestly don't know how anyone can take him seriously (as a thinking person) without being mentally impaired. If nothing else it should be overtly obvious the guy works with material more like a (bad) comedian than an intellectual.

I watched a few videos from him and most of the lines (if not all, I didn't watch that much) he used on Real Time was stuff recycled from his stand-up routine.

The guy is a bad comedian at best. The guy should be treated like an offensive comedian not some political/thought leader. The guy is basically Waldo from black mirror without any of the redeeming qualities.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-19 05:10:08
February 19 2017 05:08 GMT
#138393
The only way he gets invited to campuses is by conservative student groups that want to piss off the their liberal classmates. He is a shock jock that can't get a radio show because radio is dead.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
DannyJ
Profile Joined March 2010
United States5110 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-19 05:14:57
February 19 2017 05:11 GMT
#138394
On February 19 2017 13:51 Sermokala wrote:
You give Milo way too much credit if you consider him a main stream discussion participant. At best hes a jester that targets the hate speech-free speech divide among progressives.



Well let's put it this way, he's a jester AND technically the senior editor for the news outlet that the President of the United States follows and praises most. It's something that probably shouldn't go hand in hand.

I feel like tons of adults/older people in America can't even comprehend the form of blatant trolling that Milo joyfully admits he's reveling in. This stuff needed to stay on 4chan...
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14159 Posts
February 19 2017 05:27 GMT
#138395
On February 19 2017 13:53 Nyxisto wrote:
I don't know why people keep making this a free speech issue. Even given the lax US interpretation free speech means that the government doesn't lock you up for speaking your mind, it doesn't mean you need to tolerate every clown in every location. That is simply insane.

The problem is with the people who try to stop him from speaking at his events or disrupt them like Berkeley. If they'd let him be the antagonistic party and force him back in his box he wouldn't be a thing. But instead people shout and yell and he can go back to his breitbart people and say " look at these liberals fighting my right to free speech" and then watches the clicks roll in.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
a_flayer
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Netherlands2826 Posts
February 19 2017 05:35 GMT
#138396
On February 19 2017 13:50 LegalLord wrote:
Carrier in SCS for some random show of force.
Show nested quote +
U.S. carrier group patrols in tense South China Sea | Reuters

Sailors man the rails as the USS Carl Vinson aircraft carrier departs on deployment from Naval Station North Island in Coronado, California, U.S. January 5, 2017. REUTERS/Mike Blake
A United States aircraft carrier strike group has begun patrols in the South China Sea amid growing tension with China over control of the disputed waterway and concerns it could become a flashpoint under the new U.S. administration.

China's Foreign Ministry on Wednesday warned Washington against challenging its sovereignty in the South China Sea.

The U.S. navy said the force, including Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson, began routine operations in the South China Sea on Saturday. The announcement was posted on the Vinson's Facebook page.

The strike group's commander, Rear Admiral James Kilby, said that weeks of training in the Pacific had improved the group's effectiveness and readiness.

"We are looking forward to demonstrating those capabilities while building upon existing strong relationships with our allies, partners and friends in the Indo-Asia-Pacific region," he was quoted as saying by the Navy News Service.

Friction between the United States and China over trade and territory under U.S. President Donald Trump have increased concerns that the South China Sea could become a flashpoint.

China wrapped up its own naval exercises in the South China Sea on Friday. War games involving its own aircraft carrier have unnerved neighbors with which it has long-running territorial disputes.

China lays claim to almost all of the resource-rich South China Sea, through which about $5 trillion worth of trade passes each year.

Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam also claim parts of the waters that command strategic sea lanes and have rich fishing grounds, along with oil and gas deposits.

The United States has criticized Beijing's construction of man-made islands and build-up of military facilities in the sea, and expressed concern they could be used to restrict free movement.

(Reporting by Matthew Tostevin)

Source

I wouldn't say it's huge news, but I'm sure some people are interested in figuring out what Trump's troop deployments are up to.


The US trying to dispute those islands is going to be about as successful as forcing Crimea to return to Ukraine. They are delusional to think they should be involved in the first place.
When you came along so righteous with a new national hate, so convincing is the ardor of war and of men, it's harder to breathe than to believe you're a friend. The wars at home, the wars abroad, all soaked in blood and lies and fraud.
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
February 19 2017 05:40 GMT
#138397
On February 19 2017 14:27 Sermokala wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 19 2017 13:53 Nyxisto wrote:
I don't know why people keep making this a free speech issue. Even given the lax US interpretation free speech means that the government doesn't lock you up for speaking your mind, it doesn't mean you need to tolerate every clown in every location. That is simply insane.

The problem is with the people who try to stop him from speaking at his events or disrupt them like Berkeley. If they'd let him be the antagonistic party and force him back in his box he wouldn't be a thing. But instead people shout and yell and he can go back to his breitbart people and say " look at these liberals fighting my right to free speech" and then watches the clicks roll in.


I think the Berkeley administration should have just shut Milo down, I don't see why he's qualified to speak at a university event in the first place. Then the whole student chaos could have been avoided.

And apart from this, Milo can tell his fanbase what he wants anyway. See "I won the most EC votes" Trump, it doesn't really matter what anybody else says at this point.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
February 19 2017 05:57 GMT
#138398
A powerful storm with near hurricane-force winds swept through Southern California on Saturday, killing at least two people and causing widespread disruptions, but providing a definitive respite from five years of drought.

Amid one of the wettest winters in decades, more heavy rainfall was due to strike Northern California starting on Sunday.

“I’ve been a meteorologist here for 25 years and I personally can’t remember a storm that had that much wind with it,” said David Sweet in the Los Angeles office of the National Weather Service. “It was a very impressive storm.”

Parched for the past five years, California now finds itself in some areas with too much water.

Workers have rushed to fix the damaged embankment of the Oroville Dam north of Sacramento, which this past week was weakened by water discharged from an emergency spillway. Some forecasts said that the area could be hardest hit by the new round of rainfall on Sunday.

At the Port of Los Angeles, winds reached 75 miles an hour on Friday, just above the threshold to be considered a hurricane, Mr. Sweet said. Rainfall on some inland mountain slopes reached nine inches, the same amount of precipitation that would normally fall during an entire winter month.

Mr. Sweet described a plume of moisture extending from Hawaii to Southern California, bringing with it tropical moisture. “It was an atmospheric river,” he said.

The combination of wind and rain knocked down trees across the Los Angeles area, prompted mudslides, flooded freeways and opened up a sink hole in the San Fernando Valley large enough to almost swallow two cars.

Tens of thousands of Southern California residents lost power during the storm, portions of Amtrak train service were suspended and dozens of flights were canceled or delayed.

The two storm-related deaths involved a person retrieved from a flooded vehicle and a man electrocuted by felled power lines.

The frequent winter storms are taking a toll on other parts of the state’s infrastructure, with landslides closing a number of roads. A bridge at the tourist town of Big Sur was closed by the authorities this past week, cutting off access to part of the town. An online map by the California Department of Transportation showed at least 70 road closings.

Although the state government has not officially declared the drought over, the winter rains and accumulated snow in the Sierra have given California water reserves not seen in years.

“You would be hard-pressed to say we have a surface water drought right now,” said Jay Lund, a water expert at the University of California, Davis.

In a sign of the abundance of water, Southern California is no longer drawing from the Colorado River, Mr. Lund said.

“I can’t recall a time when we didn’t draw from the Colorado River Aqueduct,” he said.

On Friday, as the storm was pushing through Southern California, the snowpack in the Sierra over all was 174 percent of normal, according to the California Department of Water Resources. The accumulated snow serves as crucial water storage during the long and usually very arid summer months that are effectively an annual drought.

The state’s system of reservoirs, another key source of water during the dry season, are also at levels not seen in years. Taken together, the reservoirs are 122 percent of average, according to data from the State Water Board on Saturday.

This month the board extended water conservation regulations out of fears that the generous precipitation could taper off before the state’s winter rainy season ends. The water board said that it was “beyond happy” about the wet winter, but that “we know that weather can change quickly.”

While the level of rain and snowfall this winter has provided promising signs for officials who monitor the state’s drought, a complete recovery from the effects of five very dry years will take years more. More than 100 million trees have died in California since 2010, in large part because they were parched. Rivers and streams lost fish. And crucial to the state’s huge agriculture industry, ground water was depleted.

“The ground water drought is likely to linger for quite some time,” Mr. Lund said, “in some areas possibly permanently.”


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
February 19 2017 06:07 GMT
#138399
On February 19 2017 13:51 Sermokala wrote:
You give Milo way too much credit if you consider him a main stream discussion participant. At best hes a jester that targets the hate speech-free speech divide among progressives.

In much more real news china cut off its imports of north korean coal. Man if you though chinese coal miners had a freakish 19 century helljob just imagine how bad it has to be in north korea.

You may want to avert your eyes:

Milo will be giving a keynote speech at CPAC this year.
CorsairHero
Profile Joined December 2008
Canada9491 Posts
February 19 2017 06:30 GMT
#138400
On February 19 2017 12:50 Plansix wrote:
Milo won't engage in a moderated debate for that very reason. He just wants to speak and show insults until his time is up.

He did for 2 hours at the University of Michigan
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