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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On October 01 2016 05:15 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 05:11 xDaunt wrote:On October 01 2016 04:44 Nevuk wrote:
I feel bad for the conservatives in this thread. You can tell that their heart really isn't in actually defending Trump (he's not defensible) so they have to constantly contort arguments in a manner that seems somewhat painful in order for them not to sink into the ethereal miasma of their candidate. Spare me the pity party. Even if Trump loses, the election will still be a net-positive for conservatives and the republican party. As I have been saying for some time now, the American right needs makeover. A Trump loss isn't going to stop the process that has begun. ?? Isn't Trump's victory like a complete disavowal of the Republican party?
He played the game the way the Republicans do - by lying and posturing like a gorilla, and playing the substance-less emotional game. Hopefully it will prove to the Republicans that they need a real platform and not just a BS train.
As I posted before:
On September 15 2016 03:48 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2016 03:08 xDaunt wrote:On September 15 2016 03:04 LegalLord wrote:On September 15 2016 02:57 Plansix wrote:On September 15 2016 02:53 farvacola wrote:
both of which are not liberal posters lol. They are closer to center than most other people in this thread. If we need to put people into categories. I'm a mix of somewhat far left and somewhat far right on a number of issues that people care about, and moderate on others. I guess on average I qualify as slightly left-of-center but I can't say that that's completely accurate either. Wait, wait. What policies do you consider yourself being conservative/right on? You've been left on pretty much everything and reject Pence as an acceptable president out of hand. EDIT: And just to be clear, the post below is where I'm confused: On September 14 2016 04:32 LegalLord wrote:On September 14 2016 02:51 Mohdoo wrote:On September 14 2016 02:43 LegalLord wrote:On September 14 2016 02:42 Plansix wrote:On September 14 2016 02:41 LegalLord wrote:
Hillary supporters (rather than reluctant voters) are not really any better. Well at least you found a way to feel superior to both of them. It's not hard, it just requires a moderate amount of ability to acknowledge the flaws of each candidate. As opposed to the denial is I highlighted a few pages back of course (Hillary flaws are fake -> Not actually fake -> "but trump so w/e). As long as Trump is barrrrrrrrrrrrrrrely worse than Clinton, I will not hesitate for a moment to vote for Clinton. People focus way too much on having a good candidate. Maybe sometimes you don't get a good candidate. Oh fucking well. Not a whole lot I/we can do about it right now, so all that's left is a pros and cons list of what we have. I'm not in the habit of patting myself on the back for voting 3rd party, so I get what I get. I still firmly believe that a Trump presidency would be bad in ways we don't even think about because he is so grossly unqualified. Trump is no more qualified to be president than I am. That's terrifying. So I vote Clinton because I think she'll keep the lights on. I fully appreciate all the bad parts about her, but I only have 2 choices. So here's my political calculus for making voting decisions. First consideration is obviously policy, as in whose platform is more in line with the one I support? On that end, it's split along specific issues - I like Trump's "America first" approach to trade, FP, and to a much milder extent immigration. On social issues, Hillary is nominally socially progressive rather than nominally ass-backwards on most social issues; Trump's willingness to call out the shittiness of the "regressive left" is absolutely a good thing. On domestic economic/public policy, Hillary's policy suggestions are flawed, but more sane, because the Republican platform for those issues is a blend of corporate shilling and denial. Hillary's has a fair bit of corporate shilling, but notably less. Hillary wins on this one. .... And ultimately, this final reason - the anti-Republican vote - is why I think I'll end up voting for Hillary. Not lesser of two evils, not because pro-Hillary denialism has any validity, but because pushing for the reform (or replacement) of the Republican Party is the most effective way to lead to a better public policy in the future. It's an anti-Republican vote, pure and simple. My last point that you quoted is perhaps worth expanding on. The country - and most of the at least somewhat progressive world - has decided that we shouldn't be looking to create a Christian fundamentalist paradise. Women's rights, minority rights, and gay rights are a horrible hill to die on. But at the same time, conservative values are important and liberal progressives often have a dangerous lack of self-awareness on the long term consequences of their more stupid programs. By focusing on issues that are batshit insane, the Republican Party undermines more genuine conservative concerns (some of which are religiously motivated yet valid) by focusing on fundamentalism plus corporate shilling. We need a better Republican Party and that is the most pressing priority right now.
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On October 01 2016 05:16 Dan HH wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 05:03 Lord Tolkien wrote:SourceHere Is Donald Trump’s Newly Released Videotaped Deposition
BuzzFeed News filed court motions seeking the release of the videos. In it, Trump implied he planned to call Mexicans “rapists” when he announced his run for president.
A Washington, DC, judge on Friday released video depositions of Donald Trump and Donald Trump Jr.
Trump suggests in one exchange that his incendiary comments about Mexicans made during his campaign kickoff — he said people coming here from the country were “rapists” — were premeditated. Another answer shows Trump bragging about how he signs hundreds of real estate leases but relies on others to actually read and review the documents.
The depositions are related to Trump’s $200 million project to transform the Old Post Office building — a taxpayer-owned landmark just five blocks from White House — into a luxury hotel. Trump’s company won the right to develop the project by making numerous promises to the government that he failed to keep.
Last month, BuzzFeed News filed a court motion seeking the release of full transcripts of the depositions. In a second motion, BuzzFeed News sought the videos, part of a lawsuit by Trump against restauranteurs who abandoned agreements to operate in the Old Post Office after Trump’s comments about Mexicans.
VIDEOS AND TEXT BELOW
Honestly, that Buzzfeed is the one to break this makes me dizzy. They have the videos and the deposition transcripts as non-embed on the site, so you have to visit, but it's all there. I'm not sure what the story is here, of course everything in his speeches is planned. Did anyone assume that calling Mexican immigrants rapists wasn't in the script?
To be honest, yes. I thought Trump shot from the hip and went with his “gut” with a lot of speech, which is why they come out so inflammatory. This puts clear intent behind it and shows he is catering his speeches to appeal to racists with the full dog whistle.
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On October 01 2016 05:16 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 05:11 xDaunt wrote:On October 01 2016 04:44 Nevuk wrote:
I feel bad for the conservatives in this thread. You can tell that their heart really isn't in actually defending Trump (he's not defensible) so they have to constantly contort arguments in a manner that seems somewhat painful in order for them not to sink into the ethereal miasma of their candidate. Spare me the pity party. Even if Trump loses, the election will still be a net-positive for conservatives and the republican party. As I have been saying for some time now, the American right needs makeover. A Trump loss isn't going to stop the process that has begun. Moving further away from minorities and women sure is the way forward for the American right...
Xdaunt has made it clear how he wants the country made over. 450K deported a day is the dream.
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On October 01 2016 05:21 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 05:16 Dan HH wrote:On October 01 2016 05:03 Lord Tolkien wrote:SourceHere Is Donald Trump’s Newly Released Videotaped Deposition
BuzzFeed News filed court motions seeking the release of the videos. In it, Trump implied he planned to call Mexicans “rapists” when he announced his run for president.
A Washington, DC, judge on Friday released video depositions of Donald Trump and Donald Trump Jr.
Trump suggests in one exchange that his incendiary comments about Mexicans made during his campaign kickoff — he said people coming here from the country were “rapists” — were premeditated. Another answer shows Trump bragging about how he signs hundreds of real estate leases but relies on others to actually read and review the documents.
The depositions are related to Trump’s $200 million project to transform the Old Post Office building — a taxpayer-owned landmark just five blocks from White House — into a luxury hotel. Trump’s company won the right to develop the project by making numerous promises to the government that he failed to keep.
Last month, BuzzFeed News filed a court motion seeking the release of full transcripts of the depositions. In a second motion, BuzzFeed News sought the videos, part of a lawsuit by Trump against restauranteurs who abandoned agreements to operate in the Old Post Office after Trump’s comments about Mexicans.
VIDEOS AND TEXT BELOW
Honestly, that Buzzfeed is the one to break this makes me dizzy. They have the videos and the deposition transcripts as non-embed on the site, so you have to visit, but it's all there. I'm not sure what the story is here, of course everything in his speeches is planned. Did anyone assume that calling Mexican immigrants rapists wasn't in the script? To be honest, yes. I thought Trump shot from the hip and went with his “gut” with a lot of speech, which is why they come out so inflammatory. This puts clear intent behind it and shows he is catering his speeches to appeal to racists with the full dog whistle.
I hadn't considered that, his speeches sound very rehearsed to me. But I can see why some of it might seem too absurd to have gotten the ok from his staff, especially the factual errors such as the numbers he used in his military plan speech for example.
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Trump will be a net positive for the republican party if it shows that everything trump pivoted to during the election was fucking terrible and wrong and collectively realize they should pivot in the 180 degree other direction.
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On September 30 2016 22:02 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
He's right, of course. When a source said something, it's bullshit, but when many people say something it must be 100% true!
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I love how all of the leftists in this thread have all of these arm chair opinions about what the republican party and the American right need to be. Yes, I'm sure that you guys have our best interests at heart when you can't even demonstrate a passable understanding of what conservativism and its real problems even are.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On October 01 2016 05:36 Sermokala wrote:
Trump will be a net positive for the republican party if it shows that everything trump pivoted to during the election was fucking terrible and wrong and collectively realize they should pivot in the 180 degree other direction.
He draws attention to some genuinely important and neglected issues but the way he does it does far more harm than good.
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On October 01 2016 05:41 xDaunt wrote:
I love how all of the leftists in this thread have all of these arm chair opinions about what the republican party and the American right need to be. Yes, I'm sure that you guys have our best interests at heart when you can't even demonstrate a passable understanding of what conservativism and its real problems even are.
If you think trump is good for the republican party in any way then you're the one that can't demonstrate a passable understanding of what conservatism is and its real problems.
First of which is that its a relative term not a rigid dogma.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On October 01 2016 05:41 xDaunt wrote:
I love how all of the leftists in this thread have all of these arm chair opinions about what the republican party and the American right need to be. Yes, I'm sure that you guys have our best interests at heart when you can't even demonstrate a passable understanding of what conservativism and its real problems even are.
What do you think the problems with US conservatism are, and what do you think the American right needs to be?
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On October 01 2016 05:43 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 05:36 Sermokala wrote:
Trump will be a net positive for the republican party if it shows that everything trump pivoted to during the election was fucking terrible and wrong and collectively realize they should pivot in the 180 degree other direction.
He draws attention to some genuinely important and neglected issues but the way he does it does far more harm than good.
What issues are those? His campaign is based on reactionary positions on common sense issues. You can't argue against free trade over protectionism no matter how much you hate Mexicans.
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On October 01 2016 05:41 xDaunt wrote:
I love how all of the leftists in this thread have all of these arm chair opinions about what the republican party and the American right need to be. Yes, I'm sure that you guys have our best interests at heart when you can't even demonstrate a passable understanding of what conservativism and its real problems even are.
Implying that one needs to be a leftist to condemn the clown car that is the Republican party
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On October 01 2016 05:48 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 05:41 xDaunt wrote:
I love how all of the leftists in this thread have all of these arm chair opinions about what the republican party and the American right need to be. Yes, I'm sure that you guys have our best interests at heart when you can't even demonstrate a passable understanding of what conservativism and its real problems even are. What do you think the problems with US conservatism are, and what do you think the American right needs to be?
The american right needs to be the force in society questioning the direction of the country and arguing to make what we have better then trying to change or create new things to solve problems. In effect its the balancing force for the progressives who are there to progress the country to what it should be tomorrow and create and change things to solve our problems. One cannot be defined without the other.
Reactionaries want to turn back the clock on society to what we had in the past. Its not compatable with real conservatives but should only be tolerated in order to keep them in the tent like what the left does with true socialists.
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On October 01 2016 05:41 xDaunt wrote:
I love how all of the leftists in this thread have all of these arm chair opinions about what the republican party and the American right need to be. Yes, I'm sure that you guys have our best interests at heart when you can't even demonstrate a passable understanding of what conservativism and its real problems even are.
Having grown up with paying members of the GOP and known them for my entire life, I find your claim ownership over the party comical. Your gate keeping of what is and is not Republican is exactly why my grandfather stop voting for Republicans nationally. You don’t want a coalition of voices, but members to join up an toe the line.
On October 01 2016 05:49 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 05:41 xDaunt wrote:
I love how all of the leftists in this thread have all of these arm chair opinions about what the republican party and the American right need to be. Yes, I'm sure that you guys have our best interests at heart when you can't even demonstrate a passable understanding of what conservativism and its real problems even are. Implying that one needs to be a leftist to condemn the clown car that is the Republican party
I know plenty of Republicans that jumped ship after Bush’s tax cut while going to war. The opposite of what fiscal conservatives stood for.
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Regardless of how this election turns out the reactions and rationalizations from the losing group are going to be hilarious.
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On October 01 2016 05:41 xDaunt wrote:
I love how all of the leftists in this thread have all of these arm chair opinions about what the republican party and the American right need to be. Yes, I'm sure that you guys have our best interests at heart when you can't even demonstrate a passable understanding of what conservativism and its real problems even are.
Your right I probably dont know the real problems of conservativism.
I do know that a party based on racism and misogyny has no future. And that is firmly the direction the party has gone in with Trump.
Competition is almost always a positive thing and the Democrats and Republicans should challenge eachother to provide better solutions to the problems in the US. Right now the Republicans have lost their way, they are the party of obstructionism, of in-action, of strait up lies and fake solutions.
They need to find their way again and the path to that most certainly does not go in the direction of Trump.
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On October 01 2016 05:48 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 05:41 xDaunt wrote:
I love how all of the leftists in this thread have all of these arm chair opinions about what the republican party and the American right need to be. Yes, I'm sure that you guys have our best interests at heart when you can't even demonstrate a passable understanding of what conservativism and its real problems even are. What do you think the problems with US conservatism are, and what do you think the American right needs to be?
How much time do you have? The single biggest issues are that conservatives have lost control of the terminology of the debate and that conservatives have lost the initiative in setting proactive policies.
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Donald is the king of bad faith legal arguments.
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On October 01 2016 05:41 xDaunt wrote:
I love how all of the leftists in this thread have all of these arm chair opinions about what the republican party and the American right need to be.
The american right needs to be Hillary Clinton.
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On October 01 2016 05:36 Sermokala wrote:
Trump will be a net positive for the republican party if it shows that everything trump pivoted to during the election was fucking terrible and wrong and collectively realize they should pivot in the 180 degree other direction.
They already know this. Their postmortem after losing to Obama spelled out their flaws but they just ignored them and rode the Trump train once they couldn't defeat it.
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EPT
