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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
December 18 2014 23:31 GMT
#30621
Lmao how can a state even sue another state for a law that only applies to that state

What is this logic I can't even
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8760 Posts
December 18 2014 23:40 GMT
#30622
where are the people defending state's rights now, forward please
Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before the fall.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
December 19 2014 00:28 GMT
#30623
The whole issue would be moot if the federal government would just follow the law as written in regards to marijuana and put it in a correct schedule.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24152 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-19 11:36:38
December 19 2014 11:36 GMT
#30624
Bipartisan bill that won't cost tax payers a dime AKA: Dead on arrival.... Guy couldn't even be there to object himself...

"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5299 Posts
December 19 2014 12:04 GMT
#30625
every time i see one of them american politicians trying, its like: "hey look, another little engine that thought he could..."
or, OR: i just assume they're bitching because they didn't get in/didn't get their share/their cut, are not on the payroll yet.
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
ZasZ.
Profile Joined May 2010
United States2911 Posts
December 19 2014 16:21 GMT
#30626
As a Colorado resident who...enjoys...our current status quo, I find it hilarious and disappointing at the same time that Oklahoma and Nebraska are spending resources on this. Thankfully we have all this new tax revenue with which to drum up a legal team to send them home. It would be interesting to see if they have any actual data to support their claim that the Colorado and Nebraska/Oklahoma borders are some sort of hot zone for criminal activity now, or if they just have a stick up their ass.

Where are all the conservative states-rights activists now?
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18866 Posts
December 19 2014 16:31 GMT
#30627
This just goes to show you that the number of "principled" conservatives who have actually adopted a substantive position in furtherance of states' rights pales in comparison with those have used the concept as nothing more than a vehicle for their political agenda. This is not to say that the same dynamic doesn't take place with liberals, but I think there's a good bit of history in support of the notion that states' rights, as a concept, is almost always a placeholder for some other political belief. The US is clearly in need of another Daniel Webster.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
ZasZ.
Profile Joined May 2010
United States2911 Posts
December 19 2014 16:55 GMT
#30628
On December 20 2014 01:31 farvacola wrote:
This just goes to show you that the number of "principled" conservatives who have actually adopted a substantive position in furtherance of states' rights pales in comparison with those have used the concept as nothing more than a vehicle for their political agenda. This is not to say that the same dynamic doesn't take place with liberals, but I think there's a good bit of history in support of the notion that states' rights, as a concept, is almost always a placeholder for some other political belief. The US is clearly in need of another Daniel Webster.


I think you have it backwards. Rather than using states' rights as a placeholder for a political agenda, they seem to suspend their belief of states' rights in order to pursue a political agenda. They're all for small government until they need the big, bad fed to intervene and prevent gays from getting married, women from getting abortions, or people from smoking weed in their free time.

If there were a Republican candidate that was fiscally conservative AND actually believed in small government and states' rights without being bullied by the religious far-right, I may actually vote for them. But it seems like those people don't exist and that party will be forever poisoned by the far right. I'm pretty lukewarm on Obama's presidency, but it speaks volumes that I still think I made the right call in 2008 and 2012...Republican candidates have been so much worse.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18866 Posts
December 19 2014 17:05 GMT
#30629
There's no act of suspension going on; those people were never in favor of small government in the first place, and that's part of why there is so much political dissonance within the Republican Party. "Western" Republicans and their ilk in states like Wisconsin rarely trumpet states' rights as an actionable political concept and instead focus on specific aspects of government; this is why folks like Scott Walker are as successful as they are in states that would otherwise respond negatively to a conservative purist. Conversely, the Deep South is full to the brim with politicians who hang their proverbial hat on States Rights as a campaign issue and cornerstone aspect of conservative Republicanism, even though most of the states in the Deep South receive more federal dollars than the rest of the country by a fair margin.

Texas is the only real exception, and it's its own ball of wax.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Wolfstan
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada605 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-19 19:47:42
December 19 2014 18:17 GMT
#30630
Why is it shocking that someone who believes in states rights would support Colorado? I am a huge fan of Colorado's citizens making their own laws without having to worry about what the people a thousand miles away have to say about it.
EG - ROOT - Gambit Gaming
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
December 19 2014 19:11 GMT
#30631
On December 19 2014 20:36 GreenHorizons wrote:
Bipartisan bill that won't cost tax payers a dime AKA: Dead on arrival.... Guy couldn't even be there to object himself...

+ Show Spoiler +
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0JDrlVNIBw&feature=youtu.be

Has Warren actually done anything productive? All I ever hear out of her is hyperbole mixed with lies.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
December 19 2014 19:34 GMT
#30632
Long-anticipated regulations regarding the disposal of coal ash — a toxic byproduct containing hazardous materials such as arsenic and lead — are due to be released Friday by the U.S. government.

The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) agreed to the Friday deadline as part of the settlement of a lawsuit filed by environmental groups. The agency had first proposed rules governing the storage of waste material created through the burning of coal in 2010 in the wake of a massive spill at a ruptured holding pond in Tennessee. But regulations were never finalized, prompting activists to sue in 2012 for rules to finally be put in place.

Environmental groups say tighter standards are needed to ensure against a repeat of incidents like the Tennessee spill, that cost more than $1 billion to clean up, and a similar spill earlier this year that polluted the Dan River in North Carolina.

The practice of storing coal ash in holding ponds supported by permeable, earth barriers can lead to both contamination of surrounding groundwater and the risk of catastrophe when dikes fail — as happened in both Tennessee and North Carolina.

The EPA has said contaminants such as arsenic, mercury and cadmium in coal ash could cause cancer if they get into the water supply.

The agency has put forward two proposed sets of rules, the more aggressive of which would classify coal ash as hazardous waste, over which the agency would have direct oversight. The alternative would label it non-hazardous, with states acting as the primary regulators.

Both environmental groups and industry backers say it is unlikely that the EPA, after years of review, will label coal ash as hazardous waste.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
December 19 2014 19:41 GMT
#30633
On December 20 2014 01:55 ZasZ. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2014 01:31 farvacola wrote:
This just goes to show you that the number of "principled" conservatives who have actually adopted a substantive position in furtherance of states' rights pales in comparison with those have used the concept as nothing more than a vehicle for their political agenda. This is not to say that the same dynamic doesn't take place with liberals, but I think there's a good bit of history in support of the notion that states' rights, as a concept, is almost always a placeholder for some other political belief. The US is clearly in need of another Daniel Webster.


I think you have it backwards. Rather than using states' rights as a placeholder for a political agenda, they seem to suspend their belief of states' rights in order to pursue a political agenda. They're all for small government until they need the big, bad fed to intervene and prevent gays from getting married, women from getting abortions, or people from smoking weed in their free time.

If there were a Republican candidate that was fiscally conservative AND actually believed in small government and states' rights without being bullied by the religious far-right, I may actually vote for them. But it seems like those people don't exist and that party will be forever poisoned by the far right. I'm pretty lukewarm on Obama's presidency, but it speaks volumes that I still think I made the right call in 2008 and 2012...Republican candidates have been so much worse.


Farv is right. All too often advocates for states' rights are all too often just advocates for devolution of power to corporations and massive property holders, who find the wholesale buying up of state legislatures easier than fighting against other interest groups at the federal level.
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
December 19 2014 19:42 GMT
#30634
On December 20 2014 04:11 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2014 20:36 GreenHorizons wrote:
Bipartisan bill that won't cost tax payers a dime AKA: Dead on arrival.... Guy couldn't even be there to object himself...

+ Show Spoiler +
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0JDrlVNIBw&feature=youtu.be

Has Warren actually done anything productive? All I ever hear out of her is hyperbole mixed with lies.


Which part is she lying about?
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-19 19:48:28
December 19 2014 19:48 GMT
#30635
On December 20 2014 04:42 IgnE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2014 04:11 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
On December 19 2014 20:36 GreenHorizons wrote:
Bipartisan bill that won't cost tax payers a dime AKA: Dead on arrival.... Guy couldn't even be there to object himself...

+ Show Spoiler +
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0JDrlVNIBw&feature=youtu.be

Has Warren actually done anything productive? All I ever hear out of her is hyperbole mixed with lies.


Which part is she lying about?

I didn't watch the whole video that GH posted, I'm really tired of her crap at this point. She was full of shit when it came to the derivatives legislation a couple weeks back, and reiterated that line at the start of the clip.

Edit: and about her cheekbones
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-19 20:05:42
December 19 2014 20:05 GMT
#30636
In other words you don't know but because you are a contrarian you have to.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
December 19 2014 20:13 GMT
#30637
On December 20 2014 05:05 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
In other words you don't know but because you are a contrarian you have to.

No, in other words her first couple sentences repeated her past lies / BS / whatever you want to call it and I stopped there.

But please, don't let anything I write stop you form continually posting articles from the least reputable news sources.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
December 19 2014 20:31 GMT
#30638
On December 20 2014 04:48 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2014 04:42 IgnE wrote:
On December 20 2014 04:11 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
On December 19 2014 20:36 GreenHorizons wrote:
Bipartisan bill that won't cost tax payers a dime AKA: Dead on arrival.... Guy couldn't even be there to object himself...

+ Show Spoiler +
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0JDrlVNIBw&feature=youtu.be

Has Warren actually done anything productive? All I ever hear out of her is hyperbole mixed with lies.


Which part is she lying about?

I didn't watch the whole video that GH posted, I'm really tired of her crap at this point. She was full of shit when it came to the derivatives legislation a couple weeks back, and reiterated that line at the start of the clip.

Edit: and about her cheekbones

I like Limbaugh's nickname for her: Fauxcahontas.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24152 Posts
December 19 2014 22:03 GMT
#30639
I like how people avoided the states rights issue in order to step on Warren. What's wrong with the legislation being proposed...? "No one knows, but look at her cheekbones!" "Yeah she has funny nicknames! tehehe"

Politics really has devolved into an elementary school playground hasn't it?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-19 22:19:55
December 19 2014 22:19 GMT
#30640
On December 20 2014 07:03 GreenHorizons wrote:
I like how people avoided the states rights issue in order to step on Warren. What's wrong with the legislation being proposed...? "No one knows, but look at her cheekbones!" "Yeah she has funny nicknames! tehehe"

Politics really has devolved into an elementary school playground hasn't it?


Yeah, I was pretty amazed that people were actually taking the time to say those things and that they didn't stop to wonder if it was extremely childish.
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