|
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
|
|
Eric Cantor the sudden moderate.
|
He has the stink of a careerist political hack. Good riddance.
|
Also note that if Immigration did cause Cantor to lose then any sense of reform is dead in the house, if it wasn't already. Which means McCain's warning that GOP is done in 2016 if they don't pass reform is now waiting to be validated.
The Tea Party just won a huge upsetting victory. I mean this has the potential to be the Gettysburg of political battles and the future of the Republican Party as a whole.
|
On June 11 2014 09:21 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 09:09 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Last Friday the Cantor campaign had him up by 34 points, and now tonight.
Who says the GOP civil war is over. They are suggesting it was over immigration. So do conservatives not know what they mean when they say 'secure the border first'?
You want a number? Don't be silly. I want to make sure we don't have a repeat of the 80s- No broken promises. The particulars are up for debate. But secure it first, then we deal with the problem of amnesty once and for all. Certainly 300k+ a year is absurd.
You don't paint the ceiling while the roof is still leaking.
Also- bye bye Cantor!
|
On June 11 2014 09:36 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 09:21 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 11 2014 09:09 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Last Friday the Cantor campaign had him up by 34 points, and now tonight.
Who says the GOP civil war is over. They are suggesting it was over immigration. So do conservatives not know what they mean when they say 'secure the border first'? You want a number? Don't be silly. I want to make sure we don't have a repeat of the 80s- No broken promises. The particulars are up for debate. But secure it first, then we deal with the problem of amnesty once and for all. You don't paint the ceiling while the roof is still leaking. Also- bye bye Cantor!
Yeah, it is not about a specific number. The idea is to actually make a credible effort to stop illegal immigration, which we clearly aren't doing right now.
|
On June 11 2014 09:38 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 09:36 Introvert wrote:On June 11 2014 09:21 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 11 2014 09:09 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Last Friday the Cantor campaign had him up by 34 points, and now tonight.
Who says the GOP civil war is over. They are suggesting it was over immigration. So do conservatives not know what they mean when they say 'secure the border first'? You want a number? Don't be silly. I want to make sure we don't have a repeat of the 80s- No broken promises. The particulars are up for debate. But secure it first, then we deal with the problem of amnesty once and for all. You don't paint the ceiling while the roof is still leaking. Also- bye bye Cantor! Yeah, it is not about a specific number. The idea is to actually make a credible effort to stop illegal immigration, which we clearly aren't doing right now.
Well you don't have a number, how about a 'How' you want the border secured?
What needs to be accomplished in a 'credible effort'?
I mean conservatives have been chanting this since I can remember, so surely there is a plan? expectations? some sort of measurable goals?
|
On June 11 2014 09:47 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 09:38 xDaunt wrote:On June 11 2014 09:36 Introvert wrote:On June 11 2014 09:21 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 11 2014 09:09 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Last Friday the Cantor campaign had him up by 34 points, and now tonight.
Who says the GOP civil war is over. They are suggesting it was over immigration. So do conservatives not know what they mean when they say 'secure the border first'? You want a number? Don't be silly. I want to make sure we don't have a repeat of the 80s- No broken promises. The particulars are up for debate. But secure it first, then we deal with the problem of amnesty once and for all. You don't paint the ceiling while the roof is still leaking. Also- bye bye Cantor! Yeah, it is not about a specific number. The idea is to actually make a credible effort to stop illegal immigration, which we clearly aren't doing right now. Well you don't have a number, how about a 'How' you want the border secured? What needs to be accomplished in a 'credible effort'? I mean conservatives have been chanting this since I can remember, so surely there is a plan? expectations? some sort of measurable goals?
The goal is simple: the elimination of all illegal immigration. Obviously, we don't get there, but that's the goal. We currently are operating a system where illegal immigration is virtually tolerated by authorities if not tacitly encouraged. Hell, we can't even say "illegal alien" anymore. We have to say "undocumented _____."
In terms how to go about securing the border, I'd ramp up border security and funding for border security, markedly increase deportations, and slap on punitive fines for those who are caught. I'd also make it dramatically easier to legally immigrate to the US, thereby discouraging all of the incentives to come here illegally in the first place. As for those who are already here, I'd let them become legal permanent residents upon paying a large fine -- either all at once or on a payment plan -- and taxes regularly thereafter. Those who don't get shipped out. Military service or possibly some other civil service could be pathways to full citizenship.
|
On June 11 2014 09:38 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 09:36 Introvert wrote:On June 11 2014 09:21 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 11 2014 09:09 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Last Friday the Cantor campaign had him up by 34 points, and now tonight.
Who says the GOP civil war is over. They are suggesting it was over immigration. So do conservatives not know what they mean when they say 'secure the border first'? You want a number? Don't be silly. I want to make sure we don't have a repeat of the 80s- No broken promises. The particulars are up for debate. But secure it first, then we deal with the problem of amnesty once and for all. You don't paint the ceiling while the roof is still leaking. Also- bye bye Cantor! Yeah, it is not about a specific number. The idea is to actually make a credible effort to stop illegal immigration, which we clearly aren't doing right now.
Well, one way to reduce illegal immigration is to make it easier to immigrate legally. Everyone acknowledges that the US needs huge numbers of migrant workers, especially in the agriculture industry. I would be a lot more sympathetic to calls for securing the border if Republicans would acknowledge the necessity of a more robust guest worker program.
Edit: Your suggestions in the post above mine seem generally reasonable, it would be nice if the GOP was capable of adopting a similar immigration platform.
|
I think you guys are glossing over the important thing. Voters thought Cantor was a RINO, a man who hatched the plan to have the GOP block every attempt at any legislation, sabotaged the debt ceiling talks more than once, plotted for the speakership, and who knows what else.
|
On June 11 2014 10:07 Mercy13 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 09:38 xDaunt wrote:On June 11 2014 09:36 Introvert wrote:On June 11 2014 09:21 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 11 2014 09:09 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Last Friday the Cantor campaign had him up by 34 points, and now tonight.
Who says the GOP civil war is over. They are suggesting it was over immigration. So do conservatives not know what they mean when they say 'secure the border first'? You want a number? Don't be silly. I want to make sure we don't have a repeat of the 80s- No broken promises. The particulars are up for debate. But secure it first, then we deal with the problem of amnesty once and for all. You don't paint the ceiling while the roof is still leaking. Also- bye bye Cantor! Yeah, it is not about a specific number. The idea is to actually make a credible effort to stop illegal immigration, which we clearly aren't doing right now. Well, one way to reduce illegal immigration is to make it easier to immigrate legally. Everyone acknowledges that the US needs huge numbers of migrant workers, especially in the agriculture industry. I would be a lot more sympathetic to calls for securing the border if Republicans would acknowledge the necessity of a more robust guest worker program. Edit: Your suggestions in the post above mine seem generally reasonable, it would be nice if the GOP was capable of adopting a similar immigration platform.
I've yelled at republican politicians for being retarded on this issue. It's really simple: close the back door and open the front door.
|
On June 11 2014 10:06 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 09:47 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 11 2014 09:38 xDaunt wrote:On June 11 2014 09:36 Introvert wrote:On June 11 2014 09:21 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 11 2014 09:09 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Last Friday the Cantor campaign had him up by 34 points, and now tonight.
Who says the GOP civil war is over. They are suggesting it was over immigration. So do conservatives not know what they mean when they say 'secure the border first'? You want a number? Don't be silly. I want to make sure we don't have a repeat of the 80s- No broken promises. The particulars are up for debate. But secure it first, then we deal with the problem of amnesty once and for all. You don't paint the ceiling while the roof is still leaking. Also- bye bye Cantor! Yeah, it is not about a specific number. The idea is to actually make a credible effort to stop illegal immigration, which we clearly aren't doing right now. Well you don't have a number, how about a 'How' you want the border secured? What needs to be accomplished in a 'credible effort'? I mean conservatives have been chanting this since I can remember, so surely there is a plan? expectations? some sort of measurable goals? The goal is simple: the elimination of all illegal immigration. Obviously, we don't get there, but that's the goal. We currently are operating a system where illegal immigration is virtually tolerated by authorities if not tacitly encouraged. Hell, we can't even say "illegal alien" anymore. We have to say "undocumented _____." In terms how to go about securing the border, I'd ramp up border security and funding for border security, markedly increase deportations, and slap on punitive fines for those who are caught. I'd also make it dramatically easier to legally immigrate to the US, thereby discouraging all of the incentives to come here illegally in the first place. As for those who are already here, I'd let them become legal permanent residents upon paying a large fine -- either all at once or on a payment plan -- and taxes regularly thereafter. Those who don't get shipped out. Military service or possibly some other civil service could be pathways to full citizenship.
The bolded part is what lost Cantor his race. His opponent called that amnesty. just FYI
|
Cantor : $5,500,000 raised / $5,000,000 spent - 29k votes $172.41 per vote
Brat: $ 200,000 raised / $ 125,000 spent - 36k votes $3.42 per vote
|
No sitting House majority leader has lost since 1899.
|
Northern Ireland26764 Posts
Speaking of illegals, how come more attention isn't paid to the you know, business that employ them illegally?
It seems to generally consist of a debate between amnesty programs of some plan/easing legal immigration, and tightening border controls/increasing deportations etc?
Why not, and I don't limit this to the States, heap more scorn and turn the public more against the people who are hiring illegal workers?
|
On June 11 2014 10:15 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 10:06 xDaunt wrote:On June 11 2014 09:47 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 11 2014 09:38 xDaunt wrote:On June 11 2014 09:36 Introvert wrote:On June 11 2014 09:21 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 11 2014 09:09 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Last Friday the Cantor campaign had him up by 34 points, and now tonight.
Who says the GOP civil war is over. They are suggesting it was over immigration. So do conservatives not know what they mean when they say 'secure the border first'? You want a number? Don't be silly. I want to make sure we don't have a repeat of the 80s- No broken promises. The particulars are up for debate. But secure it first, then we deal with the problem of amnesty once and for all. You don't paint the ceiling while the roof is still leaking. Also- bye bye Cantor! Yeah, it is not about a specific number. The idea is to actually make a credible effort to stop illegal immigration, which we clearly aren't doing right now. Well you don't have a number, how about a 'How' you want the border secured? What needs to be accomplished in a 'credible effort'? I mean conservatives have been chanting this since I can remember, so surely there is a plan? expectations? some sort of measurable goals? The goal is simple: the elimination of all illegal immigration. Obviously, we don't get there, but that's the goal. We currently are operating a system where illegal immigration is virtually tolerated by authorities if not tacitly encouraged. Hell, we can't even say "illegal alien" anymore. We have to say "undocumented _____." In terms how to go about securing the border, I'd ramp up border security and funding for border security, markedly increase deportations, and slap on punitive fines for those who are caught. I'd also make it dramatically easier to legally immigrate to the US, thereby discouraging all of the incentives to come here illegally in the first place. As for those who are already here, I'd let them become legal permanent residents upon paying a large fine -- either all at once or on a payment plan -- and taxes regularly thereafter. Those who don't get shipped out. Military service or possibly some other civil service could be pathways to full citizenship. The bolded part is what lost Cantor his race. His opponent called that amnesty. just FYI
The part that gets you kicked out is doing all that BEFORE the border is secure.
|
On June 11 2014 10:30 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 10:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 11 2014 10:06 xDaunt wrote:On June 11 2014 09:47 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 11 2014 09:38 xDaunt wrote:On June 11 2014 09:36 Introvert wrote:On June 11 2014 09:21 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 11 2014 09:09 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Last Friday the Cantor campaign had him up by 34 points, and now tonight.
Who says the GOP civil war is over. They are suggesting it was over immigration. So do conservatives not know what they mean when they say 'secure the border first'? You want a number? Don't be silly. I want to make sure we don't have a repeat of the 80s- No broken promises. The particulars are up for debate. But secure it first, then we deal with the problem of amnesty once and for all. You don't paint the ceiling while the roof is still leaking. Also- bye bye Cantor! Yeah, it is not about a specific number. The idea is to actually make a credible effort to stop illegal immigration, which we clearly aren't doing right now. Well you don't have a number, how about a 'How' you want the border secured? What needs to be accomplished in a 'credible effort'? I mean conservatives have been chanting this since I can remember, so surely there is a plan? expectations? some sort of measurable goals? The goal is simple: the elimination of all illegal immigration. Obviously, we don't get there, but that's the goal. We currently are operating a system where illegal immigration is virtually tolerated by authorities if not tacitly encouraged. Hell, we can't even say "illegal alien" anymore. We have to say "undocumented _____." In terms how to go about securing the border, I'd ramp up border security and funding for border security, markedly increase deportations, and slap on punitive fines for those who are caught. I'd also make it dramatically easier to legally immigrate to the US, thereby discouraging all of the incentives to come here illegally in the first place. As for those who are already here, I'd let them become legal permanent residents upon paying a large fine -- either all at once or on a payment plan -- and taxes regularly thereafter. Those who don't get shipped out. Military service or possibly some other civil service could be pathways to full citizenship. The bolded part is what lost Cantor his race. His opponent called that amnesty. just FYI The part that gets you kicked out is doing all that BEFORE the border is secure.
But no one can say what that means?
|
On June 11 2014 10:15 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 10:06 xDaunt wrote:On June 11 2014 09:47 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 11 2014 09:38 xDaunt wrote:On June 11 2014 09:36 Introvert wrote:On June 11 2014 09:21 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 11 2014 09:09 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Last Friday the Cantor campaign had him up by 34 points, and now tonight.
Who says the GOP civil war is over. They are suggesting it was over immigration. So do conservatives not know what they mean when they say 'secure the border first'? You want a number? Don't be silly. I want to make sure we don't have a repeat of the 80s- No broken promises. The particulars are up for debate. But secure it first, then we deal with the problem of amnesty once and for all. You don't paint the ceiling while the roof is still leaking. Also- bye bye Cantor! Yeah, it is not about a specific number. The idea is to actually make a credible effort to stop illegal immigration, which we clearly aren't doing right now. Well you don't have a number, how about a 'How' you want the border secured? What needs to be accomplished in a 'credible effort'? I mean conservatives have been chanting this since I can remember, so surely there is a plan? expectations? some sort of measurable goals? The goal is simple: the elimination of all illegal immigration. Obviously, we don't get there, but that's the goal. We currently are operating a system where illegal immigration is virtually tolerated by authorities if not tacitly encouraged. Hell, we can't even say "illegal alien" anymore. We have to say "undocumented _____." In terms how to go about securing the border, I'd ramp up border security and funding for border security, markedly increase deportations, and slap on punitive fines for those who are caught. I'd also make it dramatically easier to legally immigrate to the US, thereby discouraging all of the incentives to come here illegally in the first place. As for those who are already here, I'd let them become legal permanent residents upon paying a large fine -- either all at once or on a payment plan -- and taxes regularly thereafter. Those who don't get shipped out. Military service or possibly some other civil service could be pathways to full citizenship. The bolded part is what lost Cantor his race. His opponent called that amnesty. just FYI
The problem is that republicans aren't fighting for the entire package. The base rightly thinks that this new immigration bill is all about legitimizing back door immigration rather than tightening it up and opening legal immigration. To them, it's just another amnesty bill.
|
And just to be clear, pure "amnesty" is the problem that the right has with immigration reform. I'm sure that there are some nativists out there, but I basically never meet right wingers that aren't in favor of making legal immigration a helluva lot easier than it is now. Hell, given where the politics have been over the past 20-30 years, "immigration reform" only means "amnesty" and reforming illegal immigration in the minds of most people. They don't even think about the legal side of the equation because the politicians almost never talk about it. Democrats included.
|
On June 11 2014 10:33 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 10:30 Introvert wrote:On June 11 2014 10:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 11 2014 10:06 xDaunt wrote:On June 11 2014 09:47 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 11 2014 09:38 xDaunt wrote:On June 11 2014 09:36 Introvert wrote:On June 11 2014 09:21 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 11 2014 09:09 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Last Friday the Cantor campaign had him up by 34 points, and now tonight.
Who says the GOP civil war is over. They are suggesting it was over immigration. So do conservatives not know what they mean when they say 'secure the border first'? You want a number? Don't be silly. I want to make sure we don't have a repeat of the 80s- No broken promises. The particulars are up for debate. But secure it first, then we deal with the problem of amnesty once and for all. You don't paint the ceiling while the roof is still leaking. Also- bye bye Cantor! Yeah, it is not about a specific number. The idea is to actually make a credible effort to stop illegal immigration, which we clearly aren't doing right now. Well you don't have a number, how about a 'How' you want the border secured? What needs to be accomplished in a 'credible effort'? I mean conservatives have been chanting this since I can remember, so surely there is a plan? expectations? some sort of measurable goals? The goal is simple: the elimination of all illegal immigration. Obviously, we don't get there, but that's the goal. We currently are operating a system where illegal immigration is virtually tolerated by authorities if not tacitly encouraged. Hell, we can't even say "illegal alien" anymore. We have to say "undocumented _____." In terms how to go about securing the border, I'd ramp up border security and funding for border security, markedly increase deportations, and slap on punitive fines for those who are caught. I'd also make it dramatically easier to legally immigrate to the US, thereby discouraging all of the incentives to come here illegally in the first place. As for those who are already here, I'd let them become legal permanent residents upon paying a large fine -- either all at once or on a payment plan -- and taxes regularly thereafter. Those who don't get shipped out. Military service or possibly some other civil service could be pathways to full citizenship. The bolded part is what lost Cantor his race. His opponent called that amnesty. just FYI The part that gets you kicked out is doing all that BEFORE the border is secure. But no one can say what that means?
It's something you'd have to negotiate over / discuss based on what the plausible options available can achieve.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
