Reading the PL semis thread its pretty amazing how much hate people have for certain teams, just read the KT vs Khan Day 1 thread. I like this sort of banter as it makes things more exciting but it got me wondering about which team attracts the most derision and which team's fans are the most annoying. Fans will try to say how their team is the most hated on or how some other team's fans are the most annoying, I want to do a poll to see what the general TL populace thinks about these teams (and maybe direct that kind of chatter into this thread rather than the LR threads).
(Vote): SKT1 (Vote): KT Rolster (Vote): Khan (Vote): CJ (Vote): Woongjin (Vote): STX (Vote): Team 8 (Vote): ACE (Vote): I don't particularly hate any team
I'm a team 8 fan (khan being second) and I dislike the skt1 team and fans the most. Don't take it too hard because honestly, I don't dislike anyone really. It's just that skt1 fans tend to like bisu a bit too much. It's not bad, it's just the most annoying thing I could find Sorry skt1 fans.
ill let someone else who phrased it nicely do the job for me
On March 07 2012 01:08 DropBear wrote: From someone who hates both of them, Flash fans are FAR worse.
Bisu fans: YAY BISU WON I LOVE BISUUUUUUUUUUUUU YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY HE IS THE BEST
Flash fans: I knew he was going to win before the game and anyone who didn't think so too is mentally retarded. In fact anyone who thinks that Flash has even the remotest chance of being beaten and isn't the best at every single facet of the game ever and that anyone might ever conceivably come within spitting distance is a sociopath, has a small dick and is illiterate.
Where's nothing option? If you do not give people way out, they are going to feel encouraged to pick one even if they do not have particular 'nemesis'.
[team] anti-fans: I knew they were going to lose before the game and anyone who didn't think so too is mentally retarded. In fact anyone who thinks that [team] has even the remotest chance of winning a game and isn't the best team in every single facet of the game ever and that anyone might ever conceivably come within spitting distance is a sociopath, has a small dick and is illiterate.
On March 24 2012 00:30 Hesmyrr wrote: Where's nothing option? If you do not give people way out, they are going to feel encouraged to pick one even if they do not have particular 'nemesis'.
Ah good point. Is there a way to update the polls?
On March 24 2012 00:30 Hesmyrr wrote: Where's nothing option? If you do not give people way out, they are going to feel encouraged to pick one even if they do not have particular 'nemesis'.
Ah good point. Is there a way to update the polls?
Most people would expect me to hate SKT and their fans, but I don't. The only player from them I dislike is BeSt (at various points, one of the most overrated and boring players ever). Their fans have gotten a little itchy as of late, but I remember them for being chill for the most part with some exceptions (but all fanbases have their rotten apples).
This isn't as true as it once was, but CJ fans used to be by far the most annoying and crazy. Their numbers have dwindled in the last couple years, and I attribute a lot of that to Savior's disgraceful exit, since there wasn't a fanbase in the world as shitty and delusional as Savior's, and so that was naturally related to CJ's fanbase.
On March 24 2012 01:39 subV wrote: Haha, I love how KT and SKT are both at the top each of the polls.
I had a feeling that might happen, most people tend to like one and hate the other I guess. You could probably call me a Flash-bandwagon-er but I would be fine with that. It's not my fault Hwaesung dissbanded and I had to pick someone else quick. I always root for T8 but I couldn't say I like them the best because it would be too painfull to be a T8 fan. I might not have liked KT best either if it wasn't for these playoffs helping me get to know their whole lineup and the Reach or Flash MedicDates.
I shouldn't post while I'm cooking, I nearly lost my ramen flavour-packet.
I don't hate any of the teams or their fans. I DO however hate certain players and their fans.
I hate Fantasy and I don't have a good reason. I just hate his dumb gawky face.
Flash Fans tend to bandwagon, you saw the same thing with Jangbi for awhile. Love both the players, but I seriously doubt some of their "fans" sincerity.
On March 24 2012 01:55 Kimaker wrote: I don't hate any of the teams or their fans. I DO however hate certain players and their fans.
I hate Fantasy and I don't have a good reason. I just hate his dumb gawky face.
Flash Fans tend to bandwagon, you saw the same thing with Jangbi for awhile. Love both the players, but I seriously doubt some of their "fans" sincerity.
On March 24 2012 00:17 ZeaL. wrote: Reading the PL semis thread its pretty amazing how much hate people have for certain teams, just read the KT vs Khan Day 1 thread. I like this sort of banter as it makes things more exciting but it got me wondering about which team attracts the most derision and which team's fans are the most annoying. Fans will try to say how their team is the most hated on or how some other team's fans are the most annoying, I want to do a poll to see what the general TL populace thinks about these teams (and maybe direct that kind of chatter into this thread rather than the LR threads).
(Vote): SKT1 (Vote): KT Rolster (Vote): Khan (Vote): CJ (Vote): Woongjin (Vote): STX (Vote): Team 8 (Vote): ACE (Vote): I don't particularly hate any team
People hate on KT because of Flash and SKT because they are imba with Bisu and Fantasy. I'm a SKT fan, but there's no team I dislike, just players I like more than others. I really like Flash though, funnily enough, but that's because his play is a inspiration to me as a fellow terran. When Flash plays against Bisu or Best I find it hard to decide who to root on, even when it's a really important game. I guess that means I'm more of a fan of players, rather than teams. The reason why I cheer on SKT is because they have the most amount of players that I like, and they have Hyuk. Hyuk will always be nr 1 in my heart, in a non-gay way.
As broodwar finally comes to an end. Progamers leave their painful parting words for fans. All storylines and rivalries abruptly ending. As the curtain closes, and all the players, coaches and commentators bow out for the last time .. I would like to say: it was an honour hating you KT/SKT fans every step of the way.
SKT fans most hated, courtesy of Lightwip ^^ Edit: I think we should also have a poll where everyone who isn't a KT or SKT fan votes for their least favorite team between KT/SKT and least favorite fans of those teams... the polls are too skewed by high KT/SKT fan/antifan count.
Meh, SKT will hate KT, KT will hate SKT, and everyone else hates whoever is successful (so kt and skt). If STX had won 3 championships in a row they would be the most hated.
On March 24 2012 03:04 RezChi wrote: Khan #1 SKT1 fan #1 hated SKT1 team hate #1 How can anyone hate Khan fans? The vuvuzela guy, daniel, the manly scream for SONG BYUNG GOO, best pans.
This, I think everyone loves the adorablly trollicious Khan lineup which has the most passionate fans. Also they need to unban the vuvuzela if Khan makes it to finals D:
cant please everybody but i always dislike the 'grey area' parts of polls. if it doesnt apply to you dont vote =\
The only time i dislike other fans is when the (mostly)SKT fans bash us KT fans. I do my share of cheering and 'flash never lose' jokes, but there are the guys who take the jokes too seriously. but i recognize its the same on the other side, and there are the more chill SKT fans :D <3
Whichever Telecom team is currently doing better is the fanbase I hate most at the time
As for the teams themselves, who actually hates teams? There's not enough personality in pro-gaming to have any kind of high intensity team rivalry that would make me ever hate on some dudes playing starcraft for my entertainment
How dare someone say they dislike/hate ace the most I can understand everyother team, but ACE? TT Anyways, hate STX most, KT/SKT have most annoying fans, love CJ/T8/Ace
Fav team is T8 :D Most disliked team and fans being T1 :'( As irrational as this may sound, Im still incredibly bitter that Bisu, July and Coach Park left MBC for T1.
Well maybe I hate the corporation and not the team in that case lol.
I used to like KT back when Reach, Nalra, Yellow and Chojja made it the coolest team and the SKTerrans Boxer, Oov and Midas were the villains. Then Flash and his legions of fanboys came along and I became an anti-fan. But really I don't dislike any other player on KT, just Flash, just Flash.
SKT fans are annoying, but Best fans are the worst. Whenever he wins a game lasting longer than 15 minutes stream chat gets spammed with fans praising his amazing macro, even when he got a huge build order advantage and rode it to victory. They also never shut up about Bisu, and don't give Fantasy the respect he deserves as their teams current best player.
KT fans are annoying with their arrogant attitude when they call gg when Flash is sent out before the match has started.
On March 24 2012 04:34 MrHoon wrote: I miss the days when me and like 5 people were the only KT fans, cause the rest jumped ship after ra/yellow/reach/chojja left KT
now theres like a million of us
Yeah there's a reason for that. KT was an awful team and I remember hating them a lot when I first joined TL. I only wore the tag to support Flash. It's only when Stats arrived that things turned around.
I hate SKT1 because all of their fans are protoss (read: Bisu) fans. There are very few Fantasy fans, odd given that he's their best player. I naturally gravitate towards KT because they have Flash, who is generally tasked with defeating protoss on the highest stages. However, Flash alone isn't enough for me to consider myself a KT fan. So I put ACE as my favourite team to show BW love.
I should be a CJ fan in all honesty--I liked Leta ever since his hite sparkyz playoff run. I liked much in the MSL and iris in the gomtv classic (and a great msl series with bisu). I rooted for skyhigh in his reverse all kill of hwaseung in winners league. But alas, I watched individual leagues (starting end 2007/start 2008) first before I got into proleague. I am a fantasy fan, first and foremost, ever since he almost walked the royal road.
I don't really hate any teams or fan base, but I voted SKT fans because I always get lumped with bisu fans due to my skt tag.
On March 07 2012 01:08 DropBear wrote: From someone who hates both of them, Flash fans are FAR worse.
Bisu fans: YAY BISU WON I LOVE BISUUUUUUUUUUUUU YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY HE IS THE BEST
Flash fans: I knew he was going to win before the game and anyone who didn't think so too is mentally retarded. In fact anyone who thinks that Flash has even the remotest chance of being beaten and isn't the best at every single facet of the game ever and that anyone might ever conceivably come within spitting distance is a sociopath, has a small dick and is illiterate.
The anti-fans are about even.
I also hate both, down with both
except Fantasy.
I hope Khan wins this season
It was slightly more vitriolic than I care for, but I basically agree with all of this, especially the championship hopes.
Why do people have a chip on their shoulder about fans being fans? I'm a Flash fan* and I die a little inside whenever people try to look cool by putting down "Flash fans." I find that more obnoxious than even the most obnoxious fan... it's a damn StarCraft site after all. First of all, most fans are nice so leave them out of it, and secondly, doesn't BW need all the enthusiasm we can give it right now?
I'm sure you'd like it if your favorite was just totally kicking ass. And I'm sure you'd hate it if suddenly half of TL was saying, "man, fans of [your favorite team] are so obnoxious." It's just a way of trying to look cooler than the crowd, but really 99.9% of the crowd is cooler than that one dude who was pissing you off in the first place.
* And a fan of Jaedong, Stork, Jangbi, Stats, FBH, Bisu, Best, Fantasy, Kal, Action... :D
On March 24 2012 04:34 MrHoon wrote: I miss the days when me and like 5 people were the only KT fans, cause the rest jumped ship after ra/yellow/reach/chojja left KTF
Since you're just asking for attention here, I don't feel bad about fixing your post
Don't think that nobody was out there lurking for KTF in the Nal_rA days.
On March 24 2012 01:55 Kimaker wrote: I don't hate any of the teams or their fans. I DO however hate certain players and their fans.
I hate Fantasy and I don't have a good reason. I just hate his dumb gawky face.
Flash Fans tend to bandwagon, you saw the same thing with Jangbi for awhile. Love both the players, but I seriously doubt some of their "fans" sincerity.
Why would they lie about being fans lol
I'm referring to fair weather fans. Not the actuality of their fandom.
I don't know, maybe I'm too new to the scene to have any hate for any of the other teams, but if I were to guess which team gets the most hate it would probably have to be KT just because they are on top right now, and they have Flash. Kinda surprised by the most liked poll, didn't think that CJ would be that low
On March 24 2012 05:30 Djabanete wrote: Why do people have a chip on their shoulder about fans being fans? I'm a Flash fan* and I die a little inside whenever people try to look cool by putting down "Flash fans." I find that more obnoxious than even the most obnoxious fan... it's a damn StarCraft site after all. First of all, most fans are nice so leave them out of it, and secondly, doesn't BW need all the enthusiasm we can give it right now?
I'm sure you'd like it if your favorite was just totally kicking ass. And I'm sure you'd hate it if suddenly half of TL was saying, "man, fans of [your favorite team] are so obnoxious." It's just a way of trying to look cooler than the crowd, but really 99.9% of the crowd is cooler than that one dude who was pissing you off in the first place.
* And a fan of Jaedong, Stork, Jangbi, Stats, FBH, Bisu, Best, Fantasy, Kal, Action... :D
On March 24 2012 04:34 MrHoon wrote: I miss the days when me and like 5 people were the only KT fans, cause the rest jumped ship after ra/yellow/reach/chojja left KTF
Since you're just asking for attention here, I don't feel bad about fixing your post
Don't think that nobody was out there lurking for KTF in the Nal_rA days.
I don't know, I am of the opinion that nothing bad can come out of a little friendly rivalries/bickerings.
Im getting used to being called a Bisu-fan, and i imagine most other's don't have a problem being a "Flash fan" or some such either.. It's true after all? ^_^
On March 24 2012 05:09 Ideas wrote: for the poll of which team's fans you hate the most, you need a separate option for just the woooooooooo guy that cheers for CJ at SPL matches.
Oh, golly yes: if he counts as part of "CJ fans" that's a really easy question to answer.
But you can say the same thing for just about any other team that has a strong following.
Asking KT/Khan/CJ/SKT fans to be humble? Not going to happen. If there is one thing that hasn't really changed. It's how hardcore the fanbase truly is.
I criticize KT's bad play when I see it and I applaud KT's good play when I see it, just as I do for any other team. People dismiss me when I applaud KT for being a "blind KT fan boy with out logic", and people dismiss me when I criticize KT for "shitting on the players and the other team to demean their achievement". I don't know what you mean by being "humble", being a "fan" means you have to be fanatical about it, that's where the word comes from. I would like to consider myself someone who likes to watch BW who likes KT as a team, that's all, I don't like KT to the exclusion of other teams / players, I think choosing to do that / hate on other teams is a terrible idea unless there's legitimate moral or legal reasons why I should.
On March 23 2012 09:36 plaszczka wrote: geez, i don't think it has any sense to argue about who's biggest hater in there. e-sport and classic sport is the same for fans. failures and achivements of teams and individual players are like failures and achivements in devoted fan life. i love fcb and will always say, that real is a bunch of silly kids who cant play when anything goes wrong i hate france football and will always believe that zinedine zidane was overrated and so i always did believe that khan is the strongest team without just one player - i saw their strenght in many unorthodox players that learn a lot from solid veterans. nowadays i see khan as the strongest since i watch BW and i will find every argument there is to prove that kt and skt aren't worth gold
hate for enemies is just part of sport - no mather what sport or country you're in
Hate for enemies is also what traditionally defines and drives communities apart to conflict even though it's entirely possible for people to at least maintain a civil community regardless of emotional investment on any side, and it's advantageous to all parties to do so and it helps maintain the quality of discussion, enjoyment, and group solidarity. I guess we aren't there as a civilization yet, but I can dream can't I.
Poll: Would you rather see player / team hate go away?
No, I rather be a senseless fanatic (30)
75%
Yes, I'm a sensible civil person (10)
25%
40 total votes
Your vote: Would you rather see player / team hate go away?
(Vote): Yes, I'm a sensible civil person (Vote): No, I rather be a senseless fanatic
KT. A team that once brought me smiles ("KTFlash", "Flash needs to switch to another team", "is one win too much to ask?") has been annoyingly good in the last few years. My favorite LR threads were often those involving KT or Oz (a more severe case).
Favorite team? Stars. They have the best uniforms.
On March 24 2012 00:31 Kibibit wrote: I think all non-Khan fans are completely insufferable. EDIT: Except for ACE Fans, which should be everybody anyway.
[team] anti-fans: I knew they were going to lose before the game and anyone who didn't think so too is mentally retarded. In fact anyone who thinks that [team] has even the remotest chance of winning a game and isn't the best team in every single facet of the game ever and that anyone might ever conceivably come within spitting distance is a sociopath, has a small dick and is illiterate.
On March 24 2012 06:57 PrinceXizor wrote: Bisu fans are the worse, if you a fan of the team. i have no qualms, but bisu fanboys. the worst. except bisudagger, that guy is awesome.
We can't be worse than the multitude of Flash fans, right?...
On March 24 2012 06:57 PrinceXizor wrote: Bisu fans are the worse, if you a fan of the team. i have no qualms, but bisu fanboys. the worst. except bisudagger, that guy is awesome.
We can't be worse than the multitude of Flash fans, right?...
You are making me cry over here man
flash fans i can ignore. I don't need to read livereports or battle reports of games involving flash to know what happens. I've had Bisu fans PM me with bisu-love. that's really annoying.
Lol. I don't hate SKT. I like Boxer, oov, and a lot of the players that played there. I even don't dislike Bisu (I really felt bad for him when he failed at OSL). Maybe I would dislike CJ, or Stars, but hate? You're going too far, especially when in eSports's current state, differences should be put aside and work for common goals.
And where did all the CJ fans go? That team used to be one of the most liked, up there with SKT. I am very surprised at how few people voted them as their favorite team.
On March 24 2012 05:30 Djabanete wrote: Why do people have a chip on their shoulder about fans being fans? I'm a Flash fan* and I die a little inside whenever people try to look cool by putting down "Flash fans." I find that more obnoxious than even the most obnoxious fan... it's a damn StarCraft site after all. First of all, most fans are nice so leave them out of it, and secondly, doesn't BW need all the enthusiasm we can give it right now?
I'm sure you'd like it if your favorite was just totally kicking ass. And I'm sure you'd hate it if suddenly half of TL was saying, "man, fans of [your favorite team] are so obnoxious." It's just a way of trying to look cooler than the crowd, but really 99.9% of the crowd is cooler than that one dude who was pissing you off in the first place.
* And a fan of Jaedong, Stork, Jangbi, Stats, FBH, Bisu, Best, Fantasy, Kal, Action... :D
On March 24 2012 04:34 MrHoon wrote: I miss the days when me and like 5 people were the only KT fans, cause the rest jumped ship after ra/yellow/reach/chojja left KTF
Since you're just asking for attention here, I don't feel bad about fixing your post
Don't think that nobody was out there lurking for KTF in the Nal_rA days.
I don't know, I am of the opinion that nothing bad can come out of a little friendly rivalries/bickerings.
Im getting used to being called a Bisu-fan, and i imagine most other's don't have a problem being a "Flash fan" or some such either.. It's true after all? ^_^
Friendly rivalry is great. I was responding mainly to this guy:
On March 24 2012 05:05 Pelopidas wrote: SKT fans are annoying, but Best fans are the worst. Whenever he wins a game lasting longer than 15 minutes stream chat gets spammed with fans praising his amazing macro, even when he got a huge build order advantage and rode it to victory. They also never shut up about Bisu, and don't give Fantasy the respect he deserves as their teams current best player.
KT fans are annoying with their arrogant attitude when they call gg when Flash is sent out before the match has started.
What bugs me is the "[ ] fans are so annoying, oh yeah those ones are the worst..." mentality...
If it's all in good fun then it's just part of the hype
I just am annoyed by the people that deny it was a good/bad game based on if their favorite did not get the outcome. Its cool and all to have a horse in the race but claiming that this game was bad based on an effective cheese or this game was awesome even though there was school boy errors made it anti-climatic gets on my nerves. I guess KT and SKT fans are guilty of this the most, but I think just having good games of BW played at the highest level should be the priority. Oh yea, that and Bisu/Flash apologist are the worst.
I think that is also why Kahn fans are the easiest to get along with, they weren't making excuses when Stork and Jangbi were not doing so well.
Stork has nice micro in pvt. That's really it. Khan fans don't shut up. Their team is bad. Turn is bad, Reallity is bad, Roro and Shine are awful, Jangbi is completely overrated and while Stork can play some really nice PvT's from time to time, he's bad.
The only thing Khan is good at is beating good Terran's on occasion. And when they do the whole fucking chat will not stfu.
On March 24 2012 07:37 puppykiller wrote: Stork has nice micro in pvt. That's really it. Khan fans don't shut up. Their team is bad. Turn is bad, Reallity is bad, Roro and Shine are awful, Jangbi is completely overrated and while Stork can play some really nice PvT's from time to time, he's bad.
The only thing Khan is good at is beating good Terran's on occasion. And when they do the whole fucking chat will not stfu.
I think this guy's just trying to hype up KT before the match they're about to lose .
On March 24 2012 07:36 big_shark wrote: I just am annoyed by the people that deny it was a good/bad game based on if their favorite did not get the outcome. Its cool and all to have a horse in the race but claiming that this game was bad based on an effective cheese or this game was awesome even though there was school boy errors made it anti-climatic gets on my nerves. I guess KT and SKT fans are guilty of this the most, but I think just having good games of BW played at the highest level should be the priority. Oh yea, that and Bisu/Flash apologist are the worst.
I think that is also why Kahn fans are the easiest to get along with, they weren't making excuses when Stork and Jangbi were not doing so well.
What you are annoyed of is actually the essence of fanboyism. Stay a little longer and you'll start to do the things you hate.
On March 24 2012 07:14 Hero.SP wrote: Lol. I don't hate SKT. I like Boxer, oov, and a lot of the players that played there. I even don't dislike Bisu (I really felt bad for him when he failed at OSL). Maybe I would dislike CJ, or Stars, but hate? You're going too far, especially when in eSports's current state, differences should be put aside and work for common goals.
Fuck E-sports! What BW need is Passion. That type of Passion that Hopes for the weaker team to win the KT vs CJ playoffs so that Khan can be the finalist and beat the shit out of T1.
On March 24 2012 07:37 puppykiller wrote: Stork has nice micro in pvt. That's really it. Khan fans don't shut up. Their team is bad. Turn is bad, Reallity is bad, Roro and Shine are awful, Jangbi is completely overrated and while Stork can play some really nice PvT's from time to time, he's bad.
The only thing Khan is good at is beating good Terran's on occasion. And when they do the whole fucking chat will not stfu.
You sir are making a fool out of yourself, you don't get in 2nd place in proleague with being "bad".
Idk, the team I dislike is SKT1 but that's more because I love to hate them rather than hating them. KT is my fav team, I remember being a fan of CJ (skyhigh) in the beginning cus of the GOM's then I saw some flash games, loved that and thought KT was pretty sweet to root for, than I was fanboying Jaedong rather than flash for a period and then I went Stats fanboy after seeing his game vs fantasy on destination.
And now I'm just a KT fan who has a crush on Kim Dae Yeob and being hipster about liking Action.
On March 24 2012 07:37 puppykiller wrote: Stork has nice micro in pvt. That's really it. Khan fans don't shut up. Their team is bad. Turn is bad, Reallity is bad, Roro and Shine are awful, Jangbi is completely overrated and while Stork can play some really nice PvT's from time to time, he's bad.
The only thing Khan is good at is beating good Terran's on occasion. And when they do the whole fucking chat will not stfu.
I think this guy's just trying to hype up KT before the match they're about to lose .
KTFlash fans are fucking obnoxious. They think that the universe rotates around them simply because they have the best player in the game. Which is why I like SKT. Also Bisu is cute and fanta is awesome.
I am SKT fan and my favourite players are Bisu and Fantasy. I also like their coaching stuff and players from the past + they have Afrotoss. Teams I dont like are Woongjin and KT and I picked Woongjin. Of course the two players I hate the most are SK and Zero. KTF in early years of proscene was my favourite team with Nal_ra, Yellow and Reach, they all were so unlucky. But I really hate modern KT which always buys the best players in the offseason but still but still need Flash and preferably acematch format + winners league to do anything.
My favorite team is CJ because I've always respected and admired Coach Cho, and I've become attached to all the players I've seen rise up from rookie status. Picking up Leta for the sparkyz merger also helped, and I've grown to like tigertoss too. If it weren't for Cho though, I probably would've become a KT fan - YellOw is my favorite player and a lot of the early KT players were pretty cool.
I used to hate KT and Oz in the more recent years, the way those teams leaned purely on one player annoyed me. Flash and Jaedong were excellent players, but they just didn't have teams that did anything to support them. This latest season though, every team came together; there will always be aces, but the teams didn't NEED their ace to win to have a chance, so I'm pretty happy with all the teams right now.
(As an aside, I will always hate Fantasy for those wonderful months of every Terran meching every TvZ on iccup)
As far as fans go, every team has it's obnoxious fans, except for maybe some of the sparser fandoms like STX soul. Whichever team is on top seems to be the most annoying, most of the time. I personally find the players who are fans of a team just because of flash, or bisu etc to be lesser fans than the ones behind their whole team, but most people start off as fans of a specific player then grow from there.
I wonder where all the CJ fans went, though. There used to be a lot of us.
Though a fan, I dislike STX the most because of their coach. He's made many decisions over the last three years that just really pushed me away. It's a love-hate thing.
Fans I dislike the most? For those who know me from the height of BW ('08-'09), back when I made LR threads and was absurdly active on here, the answer is simple: Stork fanboys! Not Stork fans. The '10 Bacchus OSL finals is a good example, and probably the most recent. Without individual leagues, there's been very little drama as the old days. Even Flash fanboys barely rock the boat these days. Flash fanboys are probably the worst, but at least Flash is the best BW player ever. So-called loveable underachievers like Stork receive far too much forgiveness and baseless excuses. Like how Stork is so good, but WoW and his girlfriend prevent him from winning. Or how fantasy only won because he "prepared" better, not because he's the better player. What the fuck does that mean. Surely Stork was practicing his ass off. All these players, they don't have a high variance in "natural" talent; they practice fucking 12 hours a day! That's how they're so good. You'll notice the players that are known for the most practice (Flash, JD, fantasy) are the best players! Stork fanboys are always dismissive of his failures and extremely disrespectful of the competition. And there's far more evidence of that even outside of his elimination at the hands of Shine (Ever '09). Stork also does shit like skip PL matches to prepare for individual leagues, and then calls out Flash for doing the same thing. Stork was quite pampered in PL, ending this year only because there are no individual leagues, and his skipping sure didn't help him when he got swept by Zero in the MSL and then by fantasy in the OSL. So coupled with my personal dislike for Stork, the effect is only amplified by his fanboys.
also CJ fans are annoying because they always trashtalk about how deep their team is/KTFlash/how mature they are/how KT and SKT fans are so annoying when they really aren't that different. At least we don't carry any pretensions about our fanbase.
90% of people in BW are annoying KT fans. and 99.9% of the discussion/posts are from insufferable KT fans who think they have to say something about anything and bore everybody.
Consider this, would a Woongjin/Ace/MBC/T8 fan, despite hating KT or SKT participate aggressively in things like thiese? I doubt so. They are nice and pleasant people generally, and would rather keep out of things like this. On the other hand, KT fans will always find ways to annoy and flame in threads. The polls alone, as well as the replies, show this.
A way to improve this thread is to limit it to SKT vs KT. But even so, loudmouth KT fans will always find ways.
On March 24 2012 10:18 Le French wrote: These polls are void and invalid by design.
90% of people in BW are annoying KT fans. and 99.9% of the discussion/posts are from insufferable KT fans who think they have to say something about anything and bore everybody.
Consider this, would a Woongjin/Ace/MBC/T8 fan, despite hating KT or SKT participate aggressively in things like thiese? I doubt so. They are nice and pleasant people generally, and would rather keep out of things like this. On the other hand, KT fans will always find ways to annoy and flame in threads. The polls alone, as well as the replies, show this.
A way to improve this thread is to limit it to SKT vs KT. But even so, loudmouth KT fans will always find ways.
Just saying.
Wow, what a true hater! KT anti-fans are the best.
i hate khan, the most annoying fans are SKT and KT, I cheer for SKT... I wish CJ did better but they are upsetting... at least SKT consistently can do well in playoffs.
On March 24 2012 01:55 Kimaker wrote: I don't hate any of the teams or their fans. I DO however hate certain players and their fans.
I hate Fantasy and I don't have a good reason. I just hate his dumb gawky face.
Flash Fans tend to bandwagon, you saw the same thing with Jangbi for awhile. Love both the players, but I seriously doubt some of their "fans" sincerity.
Why would they lie about being fans lol
I'm referring to fair weather fans. Not the actuality of their fandom.
I despise fair weather fans too. If your favorite team is playing against your 2nd favorite team or whatever, I don't understand the wishy-washy mentality of cheering for both. I get wishing both teams well, but you should always cheer the hardest for your most favorite team, especially when they crush others! + Show Spoiler +
Although I make an exception for when Hydra faces off against SKT, so there is a bit of hypocrisy there. STILL, I do that only for Hydra, not for any other player/team!
I also hate how fans of teams are lumped together in stereotypical categories. You know, Bisu and Flash and Stork fanboys and the like. What happened to being a fan of the whole team. :/ Oh well, can't be helped since stereotypes will exist for pretty much all of eternity.
On March 24 2012 10:59 doothegee wrote: Lol sorry to the OP, but what a worthless thread.
That being said, screw KT.
I think it's interesting data. Seems a large number of people are pretty ambivalent about the teams themselves but SKT1 fans seem to be the most annoying. Can't really explain it with KT vs SKT1 either, under favorite teams they're pretty close. If it was all about hating the most successful team I don't see how this is true as KT has been dominating both the team leagues and the inidividual leagues for the last 2 years or so. Sorry you think its a worthless thread.
I just hope that if people are still going to choose to hate on players / teams that they can leave it in this thread so we don't have to see it in the LR.
This thread has been amusing, but I'd like to inject a little positiveness and love to break the long string of hate~
I find that when interacting with people, a strong, lasting positive impression completely overrides any negative ones. For example, I don't know what comes to mind when the rest of you think Stork fanboys are annoying, but to me, Stork fans are the most fun, friendly, and kind people out there. I think of people like Opshot, who's always been so patient and willing to help me with anything I ask of him, and of Nuke, who almost single-handedly taught me how to love and appreciate Starcraft, and of Sayle, a hero beyond description. If from now on, every Stork fanboy I ever meet is a jerk, it won't even matter. My opinion of them will still be the same :D
Competitive spirit is great and intense rivalries are important for sure. But it is a little disheartening that it seems like the vast majority of non-SKT fans genuinely think we're all Lightwip clones or something. They forget the fact that almost all of the current active translators and most of the SPL team that slaves away to bring you guys such sick articles every week are SKT fans. Like, I've had someone say to me, "Thanks for translating, you're awesome!" and then 10 minutes later turn to another thread and comment, "God, SKT fans are so obnoxious." Of course every fanbase has its bad apples and generalization happens to everyone, everywhere, but sometimes I feel like we tend to get the shortest end of this particular stick.
Anyway, I guess I'm just saying, I hope people try to value and remember the positive impressions and interactions more. Let's say MBC had the most annoying fan ever to step foot in TL. I'd still hope that when someone mentions "MBC fan," the majority of you would not automatically picture him in your head, but instead someone like Ryo, who dedicates himself tirelessly to this community ^^
On March 24 2012 11:52 Kiett wrote: But it is a little disheartening that it seems like the vast majority of non-SKT fans genuinely think we're all Lightwip clones or something. They forget the fact that almost all of the current active translators and most of the SPL team that slaves away to bring you guys such sick articles every week are SKT fans. Like, I've had someone say to me, "Thanks for translating, you're awesome!" and then 10 minutes later turn to another thread and comment, "God, SKT fans are so obnoxious." Of course every fanbase has its bad apples and generalization happens to everyone, everywhere, but sometimes I feel like we tend to get the shortest end of this particular stick.
Thats not really a problem imo. While contributions are indeed awesome (translations/writeups/LR threads/etc) it doesnt give anyone a pass to act like an obnoxious fanboy/girl without having to hear about it from other people. Thats not the same as not appreciating the contribution one makes.
I hate STX because every player on STX looks the same.. And Flash fans are boring, "Oh he only lost because a fly landed on his nose when wanted to build a turret"... And I'm surprised that Ace is not higher on the "favorite team" poll!
On the forums, I think SKT fans are annoying for managing to make conversations that have nothing to do with SKT or Bisu about SKT or Bisu. My last favorite fan period, though, is CJ Woo guy.
On March 24 2012 12:31 Elyvilon wrote: On the forums, I think SKT fans are annoying for managing to make conversations that have nothing to do with SKT or Bisu about SKT or Bisu. My last favorite fan period, though, is CJ Woo guy.
Ur joking :o Flash fans are absolutely divine at this skill
On March 24 2012 12:29 Kuzmorgo wrote: I hate STX because every player on STX looks the same.. And Flash fans are boring, "Oh he only lost because a fly landed on his nose when wanted to build a turret"... And I'm surprised that Ace is not higher on the "favorite team" poll!
On March 24 2012 11:52 Kiett wrote: But it is a little disheartening that it seems like the vast majority of non-SKT fans genuinely think we're all Lightwip clones or something. They forget the fact that almost all of the current active translators and most of the SPL team that slaves away to bring you guys such sick articles every week are SKT fans. Like, I've had someone say to me, "Thanks for translating, you're awesome!" and then 10 minutes later turn to another thread and comment, "God, SKT fans are so obnoxious." Of course every fanbase has its bad apples and generalization happens to everyone, everywhere, but sometimes I feel like we tend to get the shortest end of this particular stick.
Thats not really a problem imo. While contributions are indeed awesome (translations/writeups/LR threads/etc) it doesnt give anyone a pass to act like an obnoxious fanboy/girl without having to hear about it from other people. Thats not the same as not appreciating the contribution one makes.
Oh of course. That's not really what I meant though. If someone's being a dick or actually being obnoxious, please, be my guest to call him out. I would never begrudge someone for retaliating when they're being attacked by Lightwip, for example. I just wish that when people thought about a certain group of people, the good aspects of that group would come into mind as often as the bad ones ^^
Protoss haters are far more annoying than any team antifans. They spam everywhere protoss imba, 1a2a3a, no skill etc. And they are totally immune to fact that protoss is least successful race in proscene history.
As I said before - a little bit of hatered ain't that bad in the high-edge sport arenas. When you watch football fc barcelona - real madrid games, you can be sure there's not just good playing involved. If you got strong feeliengs for one team, betting on it's win is as natural for me as saying bad things about your natural enemies. Watching live game is far more exciting if you really root for one, and really can't stand of the other. A little bit of hate makes sport worth watching - like emotions starters in ads helps sell product. Nowadays matching ideas and brands with emotions is the only way to get things conected in poor bastard's brains ;] And as you can see, in sports no matter what kind, you don't hate with true hate - it's hate to one, maybe to teams and you rather start it on when it comes to the big Grand Derbi thing. Or you live in Milano and you have another AC - Inter game.
You pick one side to love and at least one to hate. But - always remember to hate the game - not a player
We (SKT) probably have the most annoying hardcore base. But KT currently has all the fair weather fans that are pretty much always the most annoying collection of fans irrespective of their team, to the point of outnumbering their real fans. KT fans seemed to be pretty benign before they collected all the fair weather trash.
So I'm going vote for for KT, but when they lose in the playoffs, or if flash stops winning like 90% of his games, I'm sure we'll go back to being the most annoying again, we do, after all, attract most of the fair weather fans historically :D
On March 24 2012 12:29 Kuzmorgo wrote: I hate STX because every player on STX looks the same.. And Flash fans are boring, "Oh he only lost because a fly landed on his nose when wanted to build a turret"... And I'm surprised that Ace is not higher on the "favorite team" poll!
My least favourite team used to be hands down the OGN Sparkiez but then all the guys I hated truned out to be cheating and the ones I didn't (Horang2 and Leta) went and were absorbed into CJ. Now I disslike SKT and STX, SKT because I find their players are really uncharismatic and I played Zerg most in Broodwar so their sucky zergs make me sad. I used to like STX when they had Kal and July but those days are gone and their zergs are painfull to watch for me. I haven't noticed any teams fans that I disslike.
I am a Flash fan but I can see how people are getting tired of Flash fans since so many focus more on his dominant form then his other qualities. I was pretty meh about Flash for a while but a combination of his weird OCD, his nervous twitching, his personality in interviews and his often amazing play won me over. I still prefer Jaedong though by a small margin since his style is much more fun to watch but rooting for Team 8 is giving me an ulcer with all the reverse 3-2's.
On March 24 2012 12:29 Kuzmorgo wrote: I hate STX because every player on STX looks the same.. And Flash fans are boring, "Oh he only lost because a fly landed on his nose when wanted to build a turret"... And I'm surprised that Ace is not higher on the "favorite team" poll!
On March 24 2012 12:29 Kuzmorgo wrote: I hate STX because every player on STX looks the same.. And Flash fans are boring, "Oh he only lost because a fly landed on his nose when wanted to build a turret"... And I'm surprised that Ace is not higher on the "favorite team" poll!
=
=
????
Asians all look the same.
As a fellow (?) Asian, I respectfully disagree when it's Asians with one another.
On March 24 2012 10:46 BLinD-RawR wrote: I can't believe this thread lasted so long....:/
On March 24 2012 06:15 Caihead wrote:
Poll: Would you rather see player / team hate go away?
No, I rather be a senseless fanatic (30)
75%
Yes, I'm a sensible civil person (10)
25%
40 total votes
Your vote: Would you rather see player / team hate go away?
(Vote): Yes, I'm a sensible civil person (Vote): No, I rather be a senseless fanatic
I gave up after I saw the results of this poll.
I always vote the opposite of what a biased poll wants you to vote
I guess you state the opposite of what a biased premise / thread wants you to state too then? There's ironically poking fun at existing fanboyism, then there's people actually being serious and posting unjustified hate with irony as an excuse in every LR thread. :/
On March 24 2012 10:46 BLinD-RawR wrote: I can't believe this thread lasted so long....:/
On March 24 2012 06:15 Caihead wrote:
Poll: Would you rather see player / team hate go away?
No, I rather be a senseless fanatic (30)
75%
Yes, I'm a sensible civil person (10)
25%
40 total votes
Your vote: Would you rather see player / team hate go away?
(Vote): Yes, I'm a sensible civil person (Vote): No, I rather be a senseless fanatic
I gave up after I saw the results of this poll.
I always vote the opposite of what a biased poll wants you to vote
I guess you state the opposite of what a biased premise / thread wants you to state too then? There's ironically poking fun at existing fanboyism, then there's people actually being serious and posting unjustified hate with irony as an excuse in every LR thread. :/
It's a poll bro, chill. I don't agree with super-fanboys that post retarded things. But at the same time, fanboys are going to be fanboys, whether or not we do anything. Best thing to do is just to show them how stupid they are individually in a nice non-derogatory manner.
On March 24 2012 12:29 Kuzmorgo wrote: I hate STX because every player on STX looks the same.. And Flash fans are boring, "Oh he only lost because a fly landed on his nose when wanted to build a turret"... And I'm surprised that Ace is not higher on the "favorite team" poll!
=
=
????
Facially they don't look similar at all, but almost every STX player has the same hairstyle and big glasses (funny how Bogus and Calm aren't wearing them in these particular pics ).
ahh, I love the brood war section, quite more friendly than the sc2 in general, also much less bans. I voted for T8 favorite, and I don't like skt the most cause t8 always loose against them, which make me angry against their happy fans. Damn!
On March 24 2012 12:24 puppykiller wrote: actually I think most kt fans are sc2 players
Now, that.... THAT actually made sense!
Are we getting so low that the BW community is gonna pull out the BW/SC2 insults on its own community. :/ I thought we prided ourselves on being better than that.
Edit: im retarded and didn't see where the quote is from, mai bad
On March 25 2012 08:31 Caihead wrote: You apparently also forgot how to be self referential with out coming off like the people you are trying to satirize :/
You seem like a cool guy, so go on, explain what you mean minus the snarky buzzwords.
On March 25 2012 08:31 Caihead wrote: You apparently also forgot how to be self referential with out coming off like the people you are trying to satirize :/
You seem like a cool guy, so go on, explain what you mean minus the snarky buzzwords.
Every time I see you posting in a LR thread it's been positively the worst characterization of a fanboy (by your own definitions), then you escape all responsibility by saying it's just for comedy. I don't understand what you are trying to do.
On March 25 2012 08:31 Caihead wrote: You apparently also forgot how to be self referential with out coming off like the people you are trying to satirize :/
You seem like a cool guy, so go on, explain what you mean minus the snarky buzzwords.
Every time I see you posting in a LR thread it's been positively the worst characterization of a fanboy (by your own definitions), then you escape all responsibility by saying it's just for comedy.
It's not just for comedy! KHAN4lyfe yo
And come on, ditch the hyperbole. The worst fanboys are the ones who don't even try to analyse games, only care about results, and cry imbalance when their favourite player loses. I'm not that bad!
On March 25 2012 08:31 Caihead wrote: You apparently also forgot how to be self referential with out coming off like the people you are trying to satirize :/
You seem like a cool guy, so go on, explain what you mean minus the snarky buzzwords.
Every time I see you posting in a LR thread it's been positively the worst characterization of a fanboy (by your own definitions), then you escape all responsibility by saying it's just for comedy.
It's not just for comedy! KHAN4lyfe yo
And come on, ditch the hyperbole. The worst fanboys are the ones who don't even try to analyse games, only care about results, and cry imbalance when their favourite player loses. I'm not that bad!
Yea, you are fully capable of doing analysis and making quality posts with humour and intellect. Then the next minute you are making posts accusing <x> players of cheating and saying <x> fans are retarded, <x> game was terrible because <x> player won, doing exactly what you yourself characterizes as trolling and fan boying. Why would you choose to do that =/
On March 25 2012 08:49 Caihead wrote: Yea, you are fully capable of doing analysis and making quality posts with humour and intellect. Then the next minute you are making posts accusing <x> players of cheating and saying <x> fans are retarded, <x> game was terrible because <x> player won, doing exactly what you yourself characterizes as trolling and fan boying. Why would you choose to do that =/
Yes to everything except the cheating thing. I was making fun of the fellow KHAN fanboy who was actually posting that stuff, I even put a :D face in my post referencing "cheating".
On March 24 2012 12:24 puppykiller wrote: actually I think most kt fans are sc2 players
Now, that.... THAT actually made sense!
Are we getting so low that the BW community is gonna pull out the BW/SC2 insults on its own community. :/ I thought we prided ourselves on being better than that.
Dude, do you take everything seriously?
I mean, puppy meant it as a joke and I just went with it.
On March 24 2012 12:24 puppykiller wrote: actually I think most kt fans are sc2 players
Now, that.... THAT actually made sense!
Are we getting so low that the BW community is gonna pull out the BW/SC2 insults on its own community. :/ I thought we prided ourselves on being better than that.
Dude, do you take everything seriously?
I mean, puppy meant it as a joke and I just went with it.
KT fans are truly hopeless.
It's fine for you to insult me and by categorization, KT fans, when nothing about what I said has anything to do with KT, in a serious manner; but I can't take something seriously? Don't play double standards like that, like I said, you can't just toss up what ever incendiary comment as a joke after it happens and avoid responsibility
Edit: Granted I read the context to puppykiller's post, so I withdraw my remarks. The only context to this reply is your response in saying "KT fans are truly hopeless." any ways.
On March 25 2012 08:49 Caihead wrote: Yea, you are fully capable of doing analysis and making quality posts with humour and intellect. Then the next minute you are making posts accusing <x> players of cheating and saying <x> fans are retarded, <x> game was terrible because <x> player won, doing exactly what you yourself characterizes as trolling and fan boying. Why would you choose to do that =/
Yes to everything except the cheating thing. I was making fun of the fellow KHAN fanboy who was actually posting that stuff, I even put a :D face in my post referencing "cheating".
I understand why it's "fun" and exciting to incite emotional responses from people, but how about we just get excited and enjoy BW instead of getting excited and enjoying hating on each other.
On March 24 2012 12:24 puppykiller wrote: actually I think most kt fans are sc2 players
Now, that.... THAT actually made sense!
Are we getting so low that the BW community is gonna pull out the BW/SC2 insults on its own community. :/ I thought we prided ourselves on being better than that.
Dude, do you take everything seriously?
I mean, puppy meant it as a joke and I just went with it.
KT fans are truly hopeless.
It's fine for you to insult me and by categorization, KT fans, when nothing about what I said has anything to do with KT, in a serious manner; but I can't take something seriously? Don't play double standards like that, like I said, you can't just toss up what ever incendiary comment as a joke after it happens and avoid responsibility
On March 24 2012 12:24 puppykiller wrote: actually I think most kt fans are sc2 players
Now, that.... THAT actually made sense!
Are we getting so low that the BW community is gonna pull out the BW/SC2 insults on its own community. :/ I thought we prided ourselves on being better than that.
Dude, do you take everything seriously?
I mean, puppy meant it as a joke and I just went with it.
KT fans are truly hopeless.
It's fine for you to insult me and by categorization, KT fans, when nothing about what I said has anything to do with KT, in a serious manner; but I can't take something seriously? Don't play double standards like that, like I said, you can't just toss up what ever incendiary comment as a joke after it happens and avoid responsibility
/sigh
khan fans are truly hopeless
/sigh
see i can do it too, not that hard. If I have a disagreement with you I don't immediately look at your team tag and make a stupid comment.
On March 24 2012 12:24 puppykiller wrote: actually I think most kt fans are sc2 players
Now, that.... THAT actually made sense!
Are we getting so low that the BW community is gonna pull out the BW/SC2 insults on its own community. :/ I thought we prided ourselves on being better than that.
Dude, do you take everything seriously?
I mean, puppy meant it as a joke and I just went with it.
KT fans are truly hopeless.
It's fine for you to insult me and by categorization, KT fans, when nothing about what I said has anything to do with KT, in a serious manner; but I can't take something seriously? Don't play double standards like that, like I said, you can't just toss up what ever incendiary comment as a joke after it happens and avoid responsibility
/sigh
khan fans are truly hopeless
/sigh
see i can do it too, not that hard. If I have a disagreement with you I don't immediately look at your team tag and make a stupid comment.
I'm just in the Khan bandwagon for the ride. I mostly root for underdogs. lol
On March 24 2012 12:24 puppykiller wrote: actually I think most kt fans are sc2 players
Now, that.... THAT actually made sense!
Are we getting so low that the BW community is gonna pull out the BW/SC2 insults on its own community. :/ I thought we prided ourselves on being better than that.
Dude, do you take everything seriously?
I mean, puppy meant it as a joke and I just went with it.
KT fans are truly hopeless.
It's fine for you to insult me and by categorization, KT fans, when nothing about what I said has anything to do with KT, in a serious manner; but I can't take something seriously? Don't play double standards like that, like I said, you can't just toss up what ever incendiary comment as a joke after it happens and avoid responsibility
/sigh
khan fans are truly hopeless
/sigh
see i can do it too, not that hard. If I have a disagreement with you I don't immediately look at your team tag and make a stupid comment.
I'm just in the Khan bandwagon for the ride. I mostly root for underdogs. lol
yea so we agree that it's stupid to make a comment like "<x> fans are truly hopeless" by looking at the tag right. Sorry I misread the original post's context. That "KT fans are truly hopeless" set me off.
On March 24 2012 12:24 puppykiller wrote: actually I think most kt fans are sc2 players
Now, that.... THAT actually made sense!
Are we getting so low that the BW community is gonna pull out the BW/SC2 insults on its own community. :/ I thought we prided ourselves on being better than that.
Dude, do you take everything seriously?
I mean, puppy meant it as a joke and I just went with it.
KT fans are truly hopeless.
It's fine for you to insult me and by categorization, KT fans, when nothing about what I said has anything to do with KT, in a serious manner; but I can't take something seriously? Don't play double standards like that, like I said, you can't just toss up what ever incendiary comment as a joke after it happens and avoid responsibility
/sigh
khan fans are truly hopeless
/sigh
see i can do it too, not that hard. If I have a disagreement with you I don't immediately look at your team tag and make a stupid comment.
I'm just in the Khan bandwagon for the ride. I mostly root for underdogs. lol
yea so we agree that it's stupid to make a comment like "<x> fans are truly hopeless" by looking at the tag right. Sorry I misread the original post's context. That "KT fans are truly hopeless" set me off.
Let me get your definition of stupid first before we can have an agreement because there are all sorts of stupidity.
Also, I've been noticing some of your post for a while now especially on that OSL thread. You seem to take things into more complications when it should have been simple.
Gonna get a lot of hate for this, since there are a lot of you here, but the most annoying fans has to be the Flash fans. This have nothing at all to do with me liking SKT1, I like most other teams as well (CJ, Khan, Team 8 and ACE), and KT used to be my favourite team back when Nal_rA were there... And they've got Reach now. It's just that I can't for the love of god understand how people can actually like Flash. There's literally nothing about him that I like. So confused.
On March 25 2012 09:49 Tru_m4n wrote: Gonna get a lot of hate for this, since there are a lot of you here, but the most annoying fans has to be the Flash fans. This have nothing at all to do with me liking SKT1, I like most other teams as well (CJ, Khan, Team 8 and ACE), and KT used to be my favourite team back when Nal_rA were there... And they've got Reach now. It's just that I can't for the love of god understand how people can actually like Flash. There's literally nothing about him that I like. So confused.
Well looking at his play, he's done every style imaginable for TvX, aside from the truly one off builds that only Hiya would do. He's been successful with just about any style you can think of. And he's had his share of win streaks and lose streaks. I don't understand why there's "nothing" about him that you like. Is it the methodical nature of his play? The fact he pulls off all in's or rushes off 1 - 2 base? SKT1 terrans have been by far the most methodical due to a proud lineage and there's plenty of fans of fantasy, oov, boxer despite the fact they've also done loads of unorthodox play off 1 - 2 base (the boxer vs yellow bunker rush finals is a good example). It's not like he's always only done 1 style during a certain period either, people called him cheesy back in 2007-2008 but even then he still had 2 - 3 other play styles vs each race and only did things that would be considered cheese 15-20% of the times. Same for when he used to open 14 CC against zerg on every map, he still only did it 20% of the time, the reputations of him being a player that only plays one style has only helped him mind game his opponents.
On March 24 2012 12:24 puppykiller wrote: actually I think most kt fans are sc2 players
Now, that.... THAT actually made sense!
Are we getting so low that the BW community is gonna pull out the BW/SC2 insults on its own community. :/ I thought we prided ourselves on being better than that.
Dude, do you take everything seriously?
I mean, puppy meant it as a joke and I just went with it.
KT fans are truly hopeless.
It's fine for you to insult me and by categorization, KT fans, when nothing about what I said has anything to do with KT, in a serious manner; but I can't take something seriously? Don't play double standards like that, like I said, you can't just toss up what ever incendiary comment as a joke after it happens and avoid responsibility
/sigh
khan fans are truly hopeless
/sigh
see i can do it too, not that hard. If I have a disagreement with you I don't immediately look at your team tag and make a stupid comment.
I'm just in the Khan bandwagon for the ride. I mostly root for underdogs. lol
yea so we agree that it's stupid to make a comment like "<x> fans are truly hopeless" by looking at the tag right. Sorry I misread the original post's context. That "KT fans are truly hopeless" set me off.
Let me get your definition of stupid first before we can have an agreement because there are all sorts of stupidity.
Also, I've been noticing some of your post for a while now especially on that OSL thread. You seem to take things into more complications when it should have been simple.
Well I define stupidity as acts with out forethought or making a poor choice with no intention to face the consequences, if you just didn't have the relevant information it's just ignorance not stupidity (not that there aren't consequences to those), if you have the tools available to you but still choose to marginalize yourself it's stupid.
On March 25 2012 09:49 Tru_m4n wrote: Gonna get a lot of hate for this, since there are a lot of you here, but the most annoying fans has to be the Flash fans. This have nothing at all to do with me liking SKT1, I like most other teams as well (CJ, Khan, Team 8 and ACE), and KT used to be my favourite team back when Nal_rA were there... And they've got Reach now. It's just that I can't for the love of god understand how people can actually like Flash. There's literally nothing about him that I like. So confused.
He plays starcraft really well and it is fun to watch.
On March 25 2012 09:49 Tru_m4n wrote: Gonna get a lot of hate for this, since there are a lot of you here, but the most annoying fans has to be the Flash fans. This have nothing at all to do with me liking SKT1, I like most other teams as well (CJ, Khan, Team 8 and ACE), and KT used to be my favourite team back when Nal_rA were there... And they've got Reach now. It's just that I can't for the love of god understand how people can actually like Flash. There's literally nothing about him that I like. So confused.
He plays starcraft really well and it is fun to watch.
This is certainly true. Up until the end of last season, Flash was my 4th favourite player (after TBL ahaha).. And i cheer for KT as much as i could (when they are not matched up against SKT, KHAN.. Oz is a tie).
I hated CJ with a passion, still do.
I (unconciously) cheered for CJ in the previous round of Playoffs. What im getting at is, his fans bring him down a lot in my (and likely others as well) favourite list.
That's completely understandable. Flash became the most prolific and clearly the #1 player for an extended period. It was the same with Bisu back in 08-09. Whoever is the best player at the time will have the obnoxious fans flooding in.
Actually im not joking about most KT fans being sc2 players. Its no secret that every fan of KT is really just a fan of Flash and could care less about any other player on the team (except the few odd and delusional Stats and Action fanboys). A lot of sc2 players that watch BW seem to have a raging boner for Flash. They don't really understand BW and don't know who to like or who to cheer for but all damn day they hear that Flash is the best BW player and Flash is god and if Flash switched to sc2 he would be better then MVP (which freaks them out apparently) and so they end up jumping on the KT bandwagon.
On March 25 2012 11:24 puppykiller wrote: Actually im not joking about most KT fans being sc2 players. Its no secret that every fan of KT is really just a fan of Flash and could care less about any other player on the team (except the few odd and delusional Stats and Action fanboys). A lot of sc2 players that watch BW seem to have a raging boner for Flash. They don't really understand BW and don't know who to like or who to cheer for but all damn day they hear that Flash is the best BW player and Flash is god and if Flash switched to sc2 he would be better then MVP (which freaks them out apparently) and so they end up jumping on the KT bandwagon.
Honestly I hate KT except for flash.
And KHAN SUX!!!!!!!!!
REACH !!! KT has also a pretty long history which has always made me like them. And Hoejja is too cool.
On March 25 2012 11:24 puppykiller wrote: Actually im not joking about most KT fans being sc2 players. Its no secret that every fan of KT is really just a fan of Flash and could care less about any other player on the team (except the few odd and delusional Stats and Action fanboys). A lot of sc2 players that watch BW seem to have a raging boner for Flash. They don't really understand BW and don't know who to like or who to cheer for but all damn day they hear that Flash is the best BW player and Flash is god and if Flash switched to sc2 he would be better then MVP (which freaks them out apparently) and so they end up jumping on the KT bandwagon.
Honestly I hate KT except for flash.
And KHAN SUX!!!!!!!!!
REACH !!! KT has also a pretty long history which has always made me like them. And Hoejja is too cool.
On March 25 2012 11:24 puppykiller wrote:Its no secret that every fan of KT is really just a fan of Flash and could care less about any other player on the team (except the few odd and delusional Stats and Action fanboys)
On March 25 2012 11:24 puppykiller wrote: Actually im not joking about most KT fans being sc2 players. Its no secret that every fan of KT is really just a fan of Flash and could care less about any other player on the team (except the few odd and delusional Stats and Action fanboys). A lot of sc2 players that watch BW seem to have a raging boner for Flash. They don't really understand BW and don't know who to like or who to cheer for but all damn day they hear that Flash is the best BW player and Flash is god and if Flash switched to sc2 he would be better then MVP (which freaks them out apparently) and so they end up jumping on the KT bandwagon.
Honestly I hate KT except for flash.
And KHAN SUX!!!!!!!!!
But i liked KTF MagicNs, Reach/ Yellow/ Nal_Ra/ Chojja/ GoodFriend 4ever (also TheMarine), as far as I'm concerned this demographic is only true post 2009, before then there was also luxury and forgg.
On March 25 2012 11:24 puppykiller wrote: Actually im not joking about most KT fans being sc2 players. Its no secret that every fan of KT is really just a fan of Flash and could care less about any other player on the team (except the few odd and delusional Stats and Action fanboys). A lot of sc2 players that watch BW seem to have a raging boner for Flash. They don't really understand BW and don't know who to like or who to cheer for but all damn day they hear that Flash is the best BW player and Flash is god and if Flash switched to sc2 he would be better then MVP (which freaks them out apparently) and so they end up jumping on the KT bandwagon.
Followed by
Honestly I hate KT except for flash.
Presumptuous and hypocritical. No one's delusional for liking other players on the team and the team itself, sorry if this irks you.
On March 25 2012 11:24 puppykiller wrote: Actually im not joking about most KT fans being sc2 players. Its no secret that every fan of KT is really just a fan of Flash and could care less about any other player on the team (except the few odd and delusional Stats and Action fanboys). A lot of sc2 players that watch BW seem to have a raging boner for Flash. They don't really understand BW and don't know who to like or who to cheer for but all damn day they hear that Flash is the best BW player and Flash is god and if Flash switched to sc2 he would be better then MVP (which freaks them out apparently) and so they end up jumping on the KT bandwagon.
I'm probably going to get an eyeful for this but here it is: I love Bisu, therefore I love SKT1 and I only dislike KT because Flash keeps beating Bisu. I guess that makes me a somewhat stereotypical SKT1 fanboy huh...
On March 25 2012 14:03 Lumire wrote: I like how everyone starts trying to say they like [random KT player] in order to try to prove themselves righteous.
Honestly if KT didn't have flash they would have less fans then woonjin.
Nowaydays incontestably. KTMagicNS would still be remembered though <3
On March 25 2012 14:03 Lumire wrote: Honestly if KT didn't have flash they would have less fans then woonjin.
I honestly believe this.
I guess Violet's got a bit of a story to him. Action had a specific game type "imba late game, sucks at getting there" but that doesn't seem to apply much anymore anyway. Hoejja is left-handed and we can relate to him through Old Boy, so he's pretty legit.
On March 25 2012 14:03 Lumire wrote: I like how everyone starts trying to say they like [random KT player] in order to try to prove themselves righteous.
Honestly if KT didn't have flash they would have less fans then woonjin.
KTMagicNS would still be remembered though <3
All my love for KTFMagicNS <3. Reach, YellOw, & Nal_Ra hwaiting!
SKT1 fans are the most annoying. a lot of them have no team loyalty whatsoever, and are really just rabid protoss/bisu fans. e.g. a lot of them make fun of fantasy, say he's crap, laugh when he loses, etc.
On March 25 2012 14:03 Lumire wrote: Honestly if KT didn't have flash they would have less fans then woonjin.
I honestly believe this.
I guess Violet's got a bit of a story to him. Action had a specific game type "imba late game, sucks at getting there" but that doesn't seem to apply much anymore anyway. Hoejja is left-handed and we can relate to him through Old Boy, so he's pretty legit.
But yeah, 90% of them are there for Flash.
I pick KT as a my favourite team because of it's deep history and great players Nal_ra,Sync,Yellow and Reach and not just because of Flash only .
On March 25 2012 11:24 puppykiller wrote: Actually im not joking about most KT fans being sc2 players. Its no secret that every fan of KT is really just a fan of Flash and could care less about any other player on the team (except the few odd and delusional Stats and Action fanboys). A lot of sc2 players that watch BW seem to have a raging boner for Flash. They don't really understand BW and don't know who to like or who to cheer for but all damn day they hear that Flash is the best BW player and Flash is god and if Flash switched to sc2 he would be better then MVP (which freaks them out apparently) and so they end up jumping on the KT bandwagon.
Followed by
Honestly I hate KT except for flash.
Presumptuous and hypocritical. No one's delusional for liking other players on the team and the team itself, sorry if this irks you.
Uh yes me and many sc2 players that watch bw share a collective boner for flash. There is no hypocrating many ton personm
Man this is so wrong .... I only have !@#$% for Toss girl only ....... She is so beautiful ... Goddess of starcraft <3
Also if you doubt my loyalty, Go search for KT's New beginning.
I like teams that have history and depth. Teams with interesting stories. Teams that create great players, not steal them from less financially stable teams.
Whenever I see the CJ team, I'm reminded of the glorius GO team that had the likes of Go_Rush, Nal_Ra, Midas, ForU, and of course, Xellos. Xellos was a GO man through and through, and stuck with his team and even shared is tournament winnings. The team just oozed class. Plus, coach Cho was awesome. Throughout the years we've seen the rise of so many generations of superb players from the team.
Team 8 reminds me of the now gone POS team and PLUS teams. How July came out of nowhere into superstardom. How he played his designted 1v1 games, 2v2 games as both zerg and terran, ACE matches, and to top things of even 1v1 games as a random player, to support his team while coach Ha constructed the team from rock bottom to discover stars such as Sea. How MBCGame eventually conquered all with their three musketeers. Or the parallel story from the PLUS team with Anytime, and their rise to the top only two years after being the worst team out there by far.
Then there are teams that steal. Like when KT snatched Flash when WeMade Fox was under financial stress. Especially so with SK Telecom T1 with the likes of Midas, and Bisu. Their success and victories are less meaningful because their stories can be summarized with "So we bought these guys, and some faltered because their drive was no longer there because of the high salaries, but it's okay because we also got some other guys and it worked out great for us."
SK Telecom T1 and KT are boring because they are the epitome of the financially stable teams. There are no odds stacked against them. There are no miracles. There are no superstars that come out of nowhere, only mercinaries. They are expected to do well, and often do well, and when they don't, it's okay because they can buy more players. Teams like MBCGame reached the top against all odds, but when they couln't keep their best future prospect in Bisu because of financial hardships, the miracle couldn't be sustained and now they're disbanded.
There's no uncertainty for the bigger teams, and while that may make things easier to support them, just know you're supporting the most boring teams also. A bigger trophy cabinet and fan base doesn't always mean a richer history.
On March 25 2012 15:53 Letmelose wrote: I like teams that have history and depth. Teams with interesting stories. Teams that create great players, not steal them from less financially stable teams.
Whenever I see the CJ team, I'm reminded of the glorius GO team that had the likes of Go_Rush, Nal_Ra, Midas, ForU, and of course, Xellos. Xellos was a GO man through and through, and stuck with his team and even shared is tournament winnings. The team just oozed class. Plus, coach Cho was awesome. Throughout the years we've seen the rise of so many generations of superb players from the team.
Team 8 reminds me of the now gone POS team and PLUS teams. How July came out of nowhere into superstardom. How he played his designted 1v1 games, 2v2 games as both zerg and terran, ACE matches, and to top things of even 1v1 games as a random player, to support his team while coach Ha constructed the team from rock bottom to discover stars such as Sea. How MBCGame eventually conquered all with their three musketeers. Or the parallel story from the PLUS team with Anytime, and their rise to the top only two years after being the worst team out there by far.
Then there are teams that steal. Like when KT snatched Flash when WeMade Fox was under financial stress. Especially so with SK Telecom T1 with the likes of Midas, and Bisu. Their success and victories are less meaningful because their stories can be summarized with "So we bought these guys, and some faltered because their drive was no longer there because of the high salaries, but it's okay because we also got some other guys and it worked out great for us."
SK Telecom T1 and KT are boring because they are the epitome of the financially stable teams. There are no odds stacked against them. There are no miracles. There are no superstars that come out of nowhere, only mercinaries. They are expected to do well, and often do well, and when they don't, it's okay because they can buy more players. Teams like MBCGame reached the top against all odds, but when they couln't keep their best future prospect in Bisu because of financial hardships, the miracle couldn't be sustained and now they're disbanded.
There's no uncertainty for the bigger teams, and while that may make things easier to support them, just know you're supporting the most boring teams also. A bigger trophy cabinet and fan base doesn't always mean a richer history.
T8 because Jaedong is my favorite player of all time and while I was rooting for him and his new team I started to liked Jaehoon because he showed a lot of potential this season (he also showed that he can choke easily tho). I always liked Sea and baby is cute..Killer well its mini-dong so I cant hate him, dont really care about the other players of the team though.
But honestly without Jaedong I couldnt care less about the team, hell I couldnt care less about bw proleague and stuff.. He is just soo awesome to watch =)
On March 25 2012 15:53 Letmelose wrote: I like teams that have history and depth. Teams with interesting stories. Teams that create great players, not steal them from less financially stable teams.
Whenever I see the CJ team, I'm reminded of the glorius GO team that had the likes of Go_Rush, Nal_Ra, Midas, ForU, and of course, Xellos. Xellos was a GO man through and through, and stuck with his team and even shared is tournament winnings. The team just oozed class. Plus, coach Cho was awesome. Throughout the years we've seen the rise of so many generations of superb players from the team.
Team 8 reminds me of the now gone POS team and PLUS teams. How July came out of nowhere into superstardom. How he played his designted 1v1 games, 2v2 games as both zerg and terran, ACE matches, and to top things of even 1v1 games as a random player, to support his team while coach Ha constructed the team from rock bottom to discover stars such as Sea. How MBCGame eventually conquered all with their three musketeers. Or the parallel story from the PLUS team with Anytime, and their rise to the top only two years after being the worst team out there by far.
Then there are teams that steal. Like when KT snatched Flash when WeMade Fox was under financial stress. Especially so with SK Telecom T1 with the likes of Midas, and Bisu. Their success and victories are less meaningful because their stories can be summarized with "So we bought these guys, and some faltered because their drive was no longer there because of the high salaries, but it's okay because we also got some other guys and it worked out great for us."
SK Telecom T1 and KT are boring because they are the epitome of the financially stable teams. There are no odds stacked against them. There are no miracles. There are no superstars that come out of nowhere, only mercinaries. They are expected to do well, and often do well, and when they don't, it's okay because they can buy more players. Teams like MBCGame reached the top against all odds, but when they couln't keep their best future prospect in Bisu because of financial hardships, the miracle couldn't be sustained and now they're disbanded.
There's no uncertainty for the bigger teams, and while that may make things easier to support them, just know you're supporting the most boring teams also. A bigger trophy cabinet and fan base doesn't always mean a richer history.
CJ ain't the same CJ like it used to be .
Of course. Hite Sparkyz got added to the mix. I don't quite follow how that is the same as specifically recruiting players from less stable teams consistantly throughout the years.
On March 25 2012 15:53 Letmelose wrote: I like teams that have history and depth. Teams with interesting stories. Teams that create great players, not steal them from less financially stable teams.
Whenever I see the CJ team, I'm reminded of the glorius GO team that had the likes of Go_Rush, Nal_Ra, Midas, ForU, and of course, Xellos. Xellos was a GO man through and through, and stuck with his team and even shared is tournament winnings. The team just oozed class. Plus, coach Cho was awesome. Throughout the years we've seen the rise of so many generations of superb players from the team.
Team 8 reminds me of the now gone POS team and PLUS teams. How July came out of nowhere into superstardom. How he played his designted 1v1 games, 2v2 games as both zerg and terran, ACE matches, and to top things of even 1v1 games as a random player, to support his team while coach Ha constructed the team from rock bottom to discover stars such as Sea. How MBCGame eventually conquered all with their three musketeers. Or the parallel story from the PLUS team with Anytime, and their rise to the top only two years after being the worst team out there by far.
Then there are teams that steal. Like when KT snatched Flash when WeMade Fox was under financial stress. Especially so with SK Telecom T1 with the likes of Midas, and Bisu. Their success and victories are less meaningful because their stories can be summarized with "So we bought these guys, and some faltered because their drive was no longer there because of the high salaries, but it's okay because we also got some other guys and it worked out great for us."
SK Telecom T1 and KT are boring because they are the epitome of the financially stable teams. There are no odds stacked against them. There are no miracles. There are no superstars that come out of nowhere, only mercinaries. They are expected to do well, and often do well, and when they don't, it's okay because they can buy more players. Teams like MBCGame reached the top against all odds, but when they couln't keep their best future prospect in Bisu because of financial hardships, the miracle couldn't be sustained and now they're disbanded.
There's no uncertainty for the bigger teams, and while that may make things easier to support them, just know you're supporting the most boring teams also. A bigger trophy cabinet and fan base doesn't always mean a richer history.
CJ ain't the same CJ like it used to be .
Of course. Hite Sparkyz got added to the mix. I don't quite follow how that is the same as specifically recruiting players from less stable teams consistantly throughout the years.
If you are talking about Luxury and Forgg they are long gone from the bw scene . Estro Action wasn't a MsL winner, WJ.CH was sold to KT and I wouldn't call WJ a LESS STABLE team . Fox folded up and their players were put on a draft and KT took in wooki and mind . I don't see what the point you are trying to get here . Most of the players kt drafted were considered to be only specialised in one section of the game and they weren't as good as the msl winners like forgg and luxury .
On March 25 2012 15:53 Letmelose wrote: I like teams that have history and depth. Teams with interesting stories. Teams that create great players, not steal them from less financially stable teams.
Whenever I see the CJ team, I'm reminded of the glorius GO team that had the likes of Go_Rush, Nal_Ra, Midas, ForU, and of course, Xellos. Xellos was a GO man through and through, and stuck with his team and even shared is tournament winnings. The team just oozed class. Plus, coach Cho was awesome. Throughout the years we've seen the rise of so many generations of superb players from the team.
Team 8 reminds me of the now gone POS team and PLUS teams. How July came out of nowhere into superstardom. How he played his designted 1v1 games, 2v2 games as both zerg and terran, ACE matches, and to top things of even 1v1 games as a random player, to support his team while coach Ha constructed the team from rock bottom to discover stars such as Sea. How MBCGame eventually conquered all with their three musketeers. Or the parallel story from the PLUS team with Anytime, and their rise to the top only two years after being the worst team out there by far.
Then there are teams that steal. Like when KT snatched Flash when WeMade Fox was under financial stress. Especially so with SK Telecom T1 with the likes of Midas, and Bisu. Their success and victories are less meaningful because their stories can be summarized with "So we bought these guys, and some faltered because their drive was no longer there because of the high salaries, but it's okay because we also got some other guys and it worked out great for us."
SK Telecom T1 and KT are boring because they are the epitome of the financially stable teams. There are no odds stacked against them. There are no miracles. There are no superstars that come out of nowhere, only mercinaries. They are expected to do well, and often do well, and when they don't, it's okay because they can buy more players. Teams like MBCGame reached the top against all odds, but when they couln't keep their best future prospect in Bisu because of financial hardships, the miracle couldn't be sustained and now they're disbanded.
There's no uncertainty for the bigger teams, and while that may make things easier to support them, just know you're supporting the most boring teams also. A bigger trophy cabinet and fan base doesn't always mean a richer history.
CJ ain't the same CJ like it used to be .
Of course. Hite Sparkyz got added to the mix. I don't quite follow how that is the same as specifically recruiting players from less stable teams consistantly throughout the years.
If you are talking about Luxury and Forgg they are long gone from the bw scene . Estro Action wasn't a MsL winner, WJ.CH was sold to KT and I wouldn't call WJ a LESS STABLE team . Fox folded up and their players were put on a draft and KT took in wooki and mind . I don't see what the point you are trying to get here . Most of the players kt drafted were considered to be only specialised in one section of the game and they weren't as good as the msl winners like forgg and luxury .
Focusing purely on the present status of things.
The current CJ Entus has Effort, Snow, Movie and Skyhigh. They were there from the start, and all play a vital role in their team. I remember Snow being hyped as the next great CJ Entus player by coach Cho, comparing him with the likes and Xellos and Savior. Movie was scolded by coach Cho when he was a no-name scrub because his low-apm games made him look like he was browsing the net instead of practicing. All these players grew with their team and their team is much richer for this.
Off the top of my head, the current KT side has... who? Stats, Hoejja, and Barracks. We all know Flash was a WeMade Fox prodigy. Reach made his name as a Hanbit player. Action was known for his defiler play back when he was at Estro. KT continuously buys players, whether they are individual league winners or not (although trades of that magnitude are rarely seen in other teams). It's a huge part of why they are such a good team. Deal with it. Only a minor fraction of the team was there to start off with.
On March 25 2012 15:53 Letmelose wrote: I like teams that have history and depth. Teams with interesting stories. Teams that create great players, not steal them from less financially stable teams.
Whenever I see the CJ team, I'm reminded of the glorius GO team that had the likes of Go_Rush, Nal_Ra, Midas, ForU, and of course, Xellos. Xellos was a GO man through and through, and stuck with his team and even shared is tournament winnings. The team just oozed class. Plus, coach Cho was awesome. Throughout the years we've seen the rise of so many generations of superb players from the team.
Team 8 reminds me of the now gone POS team and PLUS teams. How July came out of nowhere into superstardom. How he played his designted 1v1 games, 2v2 games as both zerg and terran, ACE matches, and to top things of even 1v1 games as a random player, to support his team while coach Ha constructed the team from rock bottom to discover stars such as Sea. How MBCGame eventually conquered all with their three musketeers. Or the parallel story from the PLUS team with Anytime, and their rise to the top only two years after being the worst team out there by far.
Then there are teams that steal. Like when KT snatched Flash when WeMade Fox was under financial stress. Especially so with SK Telecom T1 with the likes of Midas, and Bisu. Their success and victories are less meaningful because their stories can be summarized with "So we bought these guys, and some faltered because their drive was no longer there because of the high salaries, but it's okay because we also got some other guys and it worked out great for us."
SK Telecom T1 and KT are boring because they are the epitome of the financially stable teams. There are no odds stacked against them. There are no miracles. There are no superstars that come out of nowhere, only mercinaries. They are expected to do well, and often do well, and when they don't, it's okay because they can buy more players. Teams like MBCGame reached the top against all odds, but when they couln't keep their best future prospect in Bisu because of financial hardships, the miracle couldn't be sustained and now they're disbanded.
There's no uncertainty for the bigger teams, and while that may make things easier to support them, just know you're supporting the most boring teams also. A bigger trophy cabinet and fan base doesn't always mean a richer history.
CJ ain't the same CJ like it used to be .
Of course. Hite Sparkyz got added to the mix. I don't quite follow how that is the same as specifically recruiting players from less stable teams consistantly throughout the years.
If you are talking about Luxury and Forgg they are long gone from the bw scene . Estro Action wasn't a MsL winner, WJ.CH was sold to KT and I wouldn't call WJ a LESS STABLE team . Fox folded up and their players were put on a draft and KT took in wooki and mind . I don't see what the point you are trying to get here . Most of the players kt drafted were considered to be only specialised in one section of the game and they weren't as good as the msl winners like forgg and luxury .
Focusing purely on the present status of things.
The current CJ Entus has Effort, Snow, Movie and Skyhigh. They were there from the start, and all play a vital role in their team. I remember Snow being hyped as the next great CJ Entus player by coach Cho, comparing him with the likes and Xellos and Savior. Movie was scolded by coach Cho when he was a no-name scrub because his low-apm games made him look like he was browsing the net instead of practicing. All these players grew with their team and their team is much richer for this.
Off the top of my head, the current KT side has... who? Stats, Hoejja, and Barracks. We all know Flash was a WeMade Fox prodigy. Reach made his name as a Hanbit player. Action was known for his defiler play back when he was at Estro. KT continuously buys players, whether they are individual league winners or not (although trades of that magnitude are rarely seen in other teams). It's a huge part of why they are such a good team. Deal with it. Only a minor fraction of the team was there to start off with.
Richer team lol ? The only players that is on CJ Entus that are playing well are not even from CJ in the first place . Especially Horang 2 and Leta their performance in proleague and playoff was much more better than your "homegrown" players . Hydra and effort who are suppose to be the best ZvZ players were destroyed by Hoejja(homegrown) and Action .Despite Action being known for his late game versus terran, It's also credited to KT Coaching staff that action improve in his other match up and he had potential in him .
On March 25 2012 15:53 Letmelose wrote: I like teams that have history and depth. Teams with interesting stories. Teams that create great players, not steal them from less financially stable teams.
Whenever I see the CJ team, I'm reminded of the glorius GO team that had the likes of Go_Rush, Nal_Ra, Midas, ForU, and of course, Xellos. Xellos was a GO man through and through, and stuck with his team and even shared is tournament winnings. The team just oozed class. Plus, coach Cho was awesome. Throughout the years we've seen the rise of so many generations of superb players from the team.
Team 8 reminds me of the now gone POS team and PLUS teams. How July came out of nowhere into superstardom. How he played his designted 1v1 games, 2v2 games as both zerg and terran, ACE matches, and to top things of even 1v1 games as a random player, to support his team while coach Ha constructed the team from rock bottom to discover stars such as Sea. How MBCGame eventually conquered all with their three musketeers. Or the parallel story from the PLUS team with Anytime, and their rise to the top only two years after being the worst team out there by far.
Then there are teams that steal. Like when KT snatched Flash when WeMade Fox was under financial stress. Especially so with SK Telecom T1 with the likes of Midas, and Bisu. Their success and victories are less meaningful because their stories can be summarized with "So we bought these guys, and some faltered because their drive was no longer there because of the high salaries, but it's okay because we also got some other guys and it worked out great for us."
SK Telecom T1 and KT are boring because they are the epitome of the financially stable teams. There are no odds stacked against them. There are no miracles. There are no superstars that come out of nowhere, only mercinaries. They are expected to do well, and often do well, and when they don't, it's okay because they can buy more players. Teams like MBCGame reached the top against all odds, but when they couln't keep their best future prospect in Bisu because of financial hardships, the miracle couldn't be sustained and now they're disbanded.
There's no uncertainty for the bigger teams, and while that may make things easier to support them, just know you're supporting the most boring teams also. A bigger trophy cabinet and fan base doesn't always mean a richer history.
CJ ain't the same CJ like it used to be .
Of course. Hite Sparkyz got added to the mix. I don't quite follow how that is the same as specifically recruiting players from less stable teams consistantly throughout the years.
If you are talking about Luxury and Forgg they are long gone from the bw scene . Estro Action wasn't a MsL winner, WJ.CH was sold to KT and I wouldn't call WJ a LESS STABLE team . Fox folded up and their players were put on a draft and KT took in wooki and mind . I don't see what the point you are trying to get here . Most of the players kt drafted were considered to be only specialised in one section of the game and they weren't as good as the msl winners like forgg and luxury .
Focusing purely on the present status of things.
The current CJ Entus has Effort, Snow, Movie and Skyhigh. They were there from the start, and all play a vital role in their team. I remember Snow being hyped as the next great CJ Entus player by coach Cho, comparing him with the likes and Xellos and Savior. Movie was scolded by coach Cho when he was a no-name scrub because his low-apm games made him look like he was browsing the net instead of practicing. All these players grew with their team and their team is much richer for this.
Off the top of my head, the current KT side has... who? Stats, Hoejja, and Barracks. We all know Flash was a WeMade Fox prodigy. Reach made his name as a Hanbit player. Action was known for his defiler play back when he was at Estro. KT continuously buys players, whether they are individual league winners or not (although trades of that magnitude are rarely seen in other teams). It's a huge part of why they are such a good team. Deal with it. Only a minor fraction of the team was there to start off with.
Richer team lol ? The only players that is on CJ Entus that are playing well are not even from CJ in the first place . Especially Horang 2 and Leta their performance in proleague and playoff was much more better than your "homegrown" players . Hydra and effort who are suppose to be the best ZvZ players were destroyed by Hoejja(homegrown) and Action .Despite Action being known for his late game versus terran, It's also credited to KT Coaching staff that action improve in his other match up and he had potential in him .
1. Leta and Horang2 performing well would be Hite Sparkyz players outperforming CJ Entus players. Again, I don't follow how that fact works in your argument since there's a difference between two teams fusing and KT buying specific players that they want. 2. KT won against CJ Entus. Nice to see you so giddy over that. CJ Entus ain't my team, I'm just pointing out the obvious while you swing back and forth over various issues.
If you cannot deal with the fact that the best homegrown talent from KT is Stats, and have to resort to "we still won against homegrown talents, so there!", to someone who doesn't even have team loyalties, you're going down a path I'm not willing to follow. Congratulations on your team's success.
On March 25 2012 15:53 Letmelose wrote: I like teams that have history and depth. Teams with interesting stories. Teams that create great players, not steal them from less financially stable teams.
Whenever I see the CJ team, I'm reminded of the glorius GO team that had the likes of Go_Rush, Nal_Ra, Midas, ForU, and of course, Xellos. Xellos was a GO man through and through, and stuck with his team and even shared is tournament winnings. The team just oozed class. Plus, coach Cho was awesome. Throughout the years we've seen the rise of so many generations of superb players from the team.
Team 8 reminds me of the now gone POS team and PLUS teams. How July came out of nowhere into superstardom. How he played his designted 1v1 games, 2v2 games as both zerg and terran, ACE matches, and to top things of even 1v1 games as a random player, to support his team while coach Ha constructed the team from rock bottom to discover stars such as Sea. How MBCGame eventually conquered all with their three musketeers. Or the parallel story from the PLUS team with Anytime, and their rise to the top only two years after being the worst team out there by far.
Then there are teams that steal. Like when KT snatched Flash when WeMade Fox was under financial stress. Especially so with SK Telecom T1 with the likes of Midas, and Bisu. Their success and victories are less meaningful because their stories can be summarized with "So we bought these guys, and some faltered because their drive was no longer there because of the high salaries, but it's okay because we also got some other guys and it worked out great for us."
SK Telecom T1 and KT are boring because they are the epitome of the financially stable teams. There are no odds stacked against them. There are no miracles. There are no superstars that come out of nowhere, only mercinaries. They are expected to do well, and often do well, and when they don't, it's okay because they can buy more players. Teams like MBCGame reached the top against all odds, but when they couln't keep their best future prospect in Bisu because of financial hardships, the miracle couldn't be sustained and now they're disbanded.
There's no uncertainty for the bigger teams, and while that may make things easier to support them, just know you're supporting the most boring teams also. A bigger trophy cabinet and fan base doesn't always mean a richer history.
CJ ain't the same CJ like it used to be .
Of course. Hite Sparkyz got added to the mix. I don't quite follow how that is the same as specifically recruiting players from less stable teams consistantly throughout the years.
If you are talking about Luxury and Forgg they are long gone from the bw scene . Estro Action wasn't a MsL winner, WJ.CH was sold to KT and I wouldn't call WJ a LESS STABLE team . Fox folded up and their players were put on a draft and KT took in wooki and mind . I don't see what the point you are trying to get here . Most of the players kt drafted were considered to be only specialised in one section of the game and they weren't as good as the msl winners like forgg and luxury .
Focusing purely on the present status of things.
The current CJ Entus has Effort, Snow, Movie and Skyhigh. They were there from the start, and all play a vital role in their team. I remember Snow being hyped as the next great CJ Entus player by coach Cho, comparing him with the likes and Xellos and Savior. Movie was scolded by coach Cho when he was a no-name scrub because his low-apm games made him look like he was browsing the net instead of practicing. All these players grew with their team and their team is much richer for this.
Off the top of my head, the current KT side has... who? Stats, Hoejja, and Barracks. We all know Flash was a WeMade Fox prodigy. Reach made his name as a Hanbit player. Action was known for his defiler play back when he was at Estro. KT continuously buys players, whether they are individual league winners or not (although trades of that magnitude are rarely seen in other teams). It's a huge part of why they are such a good team. Deal with it. Only a minor fraction of the team was there to start off with.
Richer team lol ? The only players that is on CJ Entus that are playing well are not even from CJ in the first place . Especially Horang 2 and Leta their performance in proleague and playoff was much more better than your "homegrown" players . Hydra and effort who are suppose to be the best ZvZ players were destroyed by Hoejja(homegrown) and Action .Despite Action being known for his late game versus terran, It's also credited to KT Coaching staff that action improve in his other match up and he had potential in him .
1. Leta and Horang2 performing well would be Hite Sparkyz players outperforming CJ Entus players. Again, I don't follow how that fact works in your argument since there's a difference between two teams fusing and KT buying specific players that they want. 2. KT won against CJ Entus. Nice to see you so giddy over that. CJ Entus ain't my team, I'm just pointing out the obvious while you swing back and forth over various issues.
If you cannot deal with the fact that the best homegrown talent from KT is Stats, and have to resort to "we still won against homegrown talents, so there!", to someone who doesn't even have team loyalties, you're going down a path I'm not willing to follow. Congratulations on your team's success.
The best home grown players on KT is not only Stats but Hoejja and Violet .
On March 25 2012 15:53 Letmelose wrote: I like teams that have history and depth. Teams with interesting stories. Teams that create great players, not steal them from less financially stable teams.
Whenever I see the CJ team, I'm reminded of the glorius GO team that had the likes of Go_Rush, Nal_Ra, Midas, ForU, and of course, Xellos. Xellos was a GO man through and through, and stuck with his team and even shared is tournament winnings. The team just oozed class. Plus, coach Cho was awesome. Throughout the years we've seen the rise of so many generations of superb players from the team.
Team 8 reminds me of the now gone POS team and PLUS teams. How July came out of nowhere into superstardom. How he played his designted 1v1 games, 2v2 games as both zerg and terran, ACE matches, and to top things of even 1v1 games as a random player, to support his team while coach Ha constructed the team from rock bottom to discover stars such as Sea. How MBCGame eventually conquered all with their three musketeers. Or the parallel story from the PLUS team with Anytime, and their rise to the top only two years after being the worst team out there by far.
Then there are teams that steal. Like when KT snatched Flash when WeMade Fox was under financial stress. Especially so with SK Telecom T1 with the likes of Midas, and Bisu. Their success and victories are less meaningful because their stories can be summarized with "So we bought these guys, and some faltered because their drive was no longer there because of the high salaries, but it's okay because we also got some other guys and it worked out great for us."
SK Telecom T1 and KT are boring because they are the epitome of the financially stable teams. There are no odds stacked against them. There are no miracles. There are no superstars that come out of nowhere, only mercinaries. They are expected to do well, and often do well, and when they don't, it's okay because they can buy more players. Teams like MBCGame reached the top against all odds, but when they couln't keep their best future prospect in Bisu because of financial hardships, the miracle couldn't be sustained and now they're disbanded.
There's no uncertainty for the bigger teams, and while that may make things easier to support them, just know you're supporting the most boring teams also. A bigger trophy cabinet and fan base doesn't always mean a richer history.
CJ ain't the same CJ like it used to be .
Of course. Hite Sparkyz got added to the mix. I don't quite follow how that is the same as specifically recruiting players from less stable teams consistantly throughout the years.
If you are talking about Luxury and Forgg they are long gone from the bw scene . Estro Action wasn't a MsL winner, WJ.CH was sold to KT and I wouldn't call WJ a LESS STABLE team . Fox folded up and their players were put on a draft and KT took in wooki and mind . I don't see what the point you are trying to get here . Most of the players kt drafted were considered to be only specialised in one section of the game and they weren't as good as the msl winners like forgg and luxury .
Focusing purely on the present status of things.
The current CJ Entus has Effort, Snow, Movie and Skyhigh. They were there from the start, and all play a vital role in their team. I remember Snow being hyped as the next great CJ Entus player by coach Cho, comparing him with the likes and Xellos and Savior. Movie was scolded by coach Cho when he was a no-name scrub because his low-apm games made him look like he was browsing the net instead of practicing. All these players grew with their team and their team is much richer for this.
Off the top of my head, the current KT side has... who? Stats, Hoejja, and Barracks. We all know Flash was a WeMade Fox prodigy. Reach made his name as a Hanbit player. Action was known for his defiler play back when he was at Estro. KT continuously buys players, whether they are individual league winners or not (although trades of that magnitude are rarely seen in other teams). It's a huge part of why they are such a good team. Deal with it. Only a minor fraction of the team was there to start off with.
Flash a WeMade prodigy!? He was on Pantech for a very short period of time and played zero televised games with them. That you would choose to so heavily associate him with that team after all these years is bizarre.
You know, it's a credit to the BW forums that this thread has got to 12 pages without being derailed yet.
I think that one guy who posted in one of the LR threads about Bisu/Flash fans is almost right:
Bisu fans are like Bisu himself, relatively simple and happy go lucky. They are excited when he wins and sad when he loses, and occasionally rage when he gets cheesed out or loses games in retarded ways, especially to Hydra busts.
Flash fans are the most delusional and defensive, thinking that he's unbeatable and always trying to find excuses for his losses or reasons why he "didn't actually lose", posting long arguments refuting claims that Flash is slumping or could possibly lose a standard game to someone who just played better.
Jaedong fans, on the other hand, are filled with this seething anger. The two fangroups listed above are mostly just concerned with how their own guy performs, but JD fans seem to have this need to spew vitriol at everyone else, the usual targets being Flash and Bisu. When JD wins, you'll find posts like "yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah Jaedong! FUCK YOU FLASH, FUCK YOU BISU, the King is back!!!11", even when the game in question has nothing to do with KT or SKT. And when JD loses or goes through a patch of poor form, it's even worse. JD fans will jump into threads where he isn't even playing just to post inflammatory crap like "where's your God now?" or "mmmmmmmmmm Bisu tears". I don't understand where this anger comes from, but it makes JD fans by far the most obnoxious. That guy GG.No.Re (or however it's spelt) who is now a PBU is the perfect stereotype of the angry Jaedong fan imo.
Stork fans I don't really know enough about to make a comment on.
definitely SKT. i know KT has a ton of annoying fans, but barring flash fanboyism, I believe nearly all us of are able to acknowledge the weaknesses of our team. personally I only get annoyed when people suggest that someone > flash overall, because that's simply not true; he is human and can occassionally lose games to snipers, but he's the best human out there along with jd.
Some SKT fans often fail to give credit where credit is due, instead they start bashing the winning player for strange reasons. Even when SKT is not even playing. That is toxic to the shrinking community.
I followed Bisu into T1 and I'm not ashamed of it. xD
It was actually a toss-up between T1 (and MBC to a lesser extent) and CJ for a while as Bisu and sAviOr are my all-time favorite players, but then I didn't really care for anyone else in CJ past or present, whereas T1 had a massive tradition and legacy and when Bisu moved there it was a no-brainer. Although these days, ever since some of the games last season (like the one vs Soulkey), Sun is actually the T1 player I'm most excited to see play / do well.
I don't really hate any teams, although the whole Flash-worship can get rather annoying. Then again you can't hate on the team that used to be called Katie Fingerboom, a damn awesome pornstar name.
On March 25 2012 15:53 Letmelose wrote: I like teams that have history and depth. Teams with interesting stories. Teams that create great players, not steal them from less financially stable teams.
Whenever I see the CJ team, I'm reminded of the glorius GO team that had the likes of Go_Rush, Nal_Ra, Midas, ForU, and of course, Xellos. Xellos was a GO man through and through, and stuck with his team and even shared is tournament winnings. The team just oozed class. Plus, coach Cho was awesome. Throughout the years we've seen the rise of so many generations of superb players from the team.
Team 8 reminds me of the now gone POS team and PLUS teams. How July came out of nowhere into superstardom. How he played his designted 1v1 games, 2v2 games as both zerg and terran, ACE matches, and to top things of even 1v1 games as a random player, to support his team while coach Ha constructed the team from rock bottom to discover stars such as Sea. How MBCGame eventually conquered all with their three musketeers. Or the parallel story from the PLUS team with Anytime, and their rise to the top only two years after being the worst team out there by far.
Then there are teams that steal. Like when KT snatched Flash when WeMade Fox was under financial stress. Especially so with SK Telecom T1 with the likes of Midas, and Bisu. Their success and victories are less meaningful because their stories can be summarized with "So we bought these guys, and some faltered because their drive was no longer there because of the high salaries, but it's okay because we also got some other guys and it worked out great for us."
SK Telecom T1 and KT are boring because they are the epitome of the financially stable teams. There are no odds stacked against them. There are no miracles. There are no superstars that come out of nowhere, only mercinaries. They are expected to do well, and often do well, and when they don't, it's okay because they can buy more players. Teams like MBCGame reached the top against all odds, but when they couln't keep their best future prospect in Bisu because of financial hardships, the miracle couldn't be sustained and now they're disbanded.
There's no uncertainty for the bigger teams, and while that may make things easier to support them, just know you're supporting the most boring teams also. A bigger trophy cabinet and fan base doesn't always mean a richer history.
CJ ain't the same CJ like it used to be .
Of course. Hite Sparkyz got added to the mix. I don't quite follow how that is the same as specifically recruiting players from less stable teams consistantly throughout the years.
If you are talking about Luxury and Forgg they are long gone from the bw scene . Estro Action wasn't a MsL winner, WJ.CH was sold to KT and I wouldn't call WJ a LESS STABLE team . Fox folded up and their players were put on a draft and KT took in wooki and mind . I don't see what the point you are trying to get here . Most of the players kt drafted were considered to be only specialised in one section of the game and they weren't as good as the msl winners like forgg and luxury .
Focusing purely on the present status of things.
The current CJ Entus has Effort, Snow, Movie and Skyhigh. They were there from the start, and all play a vital role in their team. I remember Snow being hyped as the next great CJ Entus player by coach Cho, comparing him with the likes and Xellos and Savior. Movie was scolded by coach Cho when he was a no-name scrub because his low-apm games made him look like he was browsing the net instead of practicing. All these players grew with their team and their team is much richer for this.
Off the top of my head, the current KT side has... who? Stats, Hoejja, and Barracks. We all know Flash was a WeMade Fox prodigy. Reach made his name as a Hanbit player. Action was known for his defiler play back when he was at Estro. KT continuously buys players, whether they are individual league winners or not (although trades of that magnitude are rarely seen in other teams). It's a huge part of why they are such a good team. Deal with it. Only a minor fraction of the team was there to start off with.
Flash a WeMade prodigy!? He was on Pantech for a very short period of time and played zero televised games with them. That you would choose to so heavily associate him with that team after all these years is bizarre.
I know right? I can understand the sentiment that KT hires a bunch of mercenaries because of fOrGG, luxury, action, crazy-hydra, etc but to claim Flash as anything other than KT is just silly. It's like saying Kobe Bryant isn't an Los Angeles Laker because he spent the first 5 days of his career as a member of the Charlotte Hornets. A player's legacy and a team's history is determined by what actually happened and not what could have been. It's not like Flash was a bonjwa right from the get go. He developed from a cheesy, above average terran to the most skilled player of all time under KT's watch. Maybe it would have happened under FOX but maybe not. Either way Flash is unquestionably 100% KT.
On March 25 2012 18:42 FuRong wrote: You know, it's a credit to the BW forums that this thread has got to 12 pages without being derailed yet.
I think that one guy who posted in one of the LR threads about Bisu/Flash fans is almost right:
Bisu fans are like Bisu himself, relatively simple and happy go lucky. They are excited when he wins and sad when he loses, and occasionally rage when he gets cheesed out or loses games in retarded ways, especially to Hydra busts.
Flash fans are the most delusional and defensive, thinking that he's unbeatable and always trying to find excuses for his losses or reasons why he "didn't actually lose", posting long arguments refuting claims that Flash is slumping or could possibly lose a standard game to someone who just played better.
Jaedong fans, on the other hand, are filled with this seething anger. The two fangroups listed above are mostly just concerned with how their own guy performs, but JD fans seem to have this need to spew vitriol at everyone else, the usual targets being Flash and Bisu. When JD wins, you'll find posts like "yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah Jaedong! FUCK YOU FLASH, FUCK YOU BISU, the King is back!!!11", even when the game in question has nothing to do with KT or SKT. And when JD loses or goes through a patch of poor form, it's even worse. JD fans will jump into threads where he isn't even playing just to post inflammatory crap like "where's your God now?" or "mmmmmmmmmm Bisu tears". I don't understand where this anger comes from, but it makes JD fans by far the most obnoxious. That guy GG.No.Re (or however it's spelt) who is now a PBU is the perfect stereotype of the angry Jaedong fan imo.
Stork fans I don't really know enough about to make a comment on.
Lol, to be honest, your completely correct. I also admit that I am a Jaedong fan, and that he is forever my king. I am also a Stork fan, and from that, you already know your main man is going to get in second, so you cheer for him regardless of his results.
On March 25 2012 15:53 Letmelose wrote: I like teams that have history and depth. Teams with interesting stories. Teams that create great players, not steal them from less financially stable teams.
Whenever I see the CJ team, I'm reminded of the glorius GO team that had the likes of Go_Rush, Nal_Ra, Midas, ForU, and of course, Xellos. Xellos was a GO man through and through, and stuck with his team and even shared is tournament winnings. The team just oozed class. Plus, coach Cho was awesome. Throughout the years we've seen the rise of so many generations of superb players from the team.
Team 8 reminds me of the now gone POS team and PLUS teams. How July came out of nowhere into superstardom. How he played his designted 1v1 games, 2v2 games as both zerg and terran, ACE matches, and to top things of even 1v1 games as a random player, to support his team while coach Ha constructed the team from rock bottom to discover stars such as Sea. How MBCGame eventually conquered all with their three musketeers. Or the parallel story from the PLUS team with Anytime, and their rise to the top only two years after being the worst team out there by far.
Then there are teams that steal. Like when KT snatched Flash when WeMade Fox was under financial stress. Especially so with SK Telecom T1 with the likes of Midas, and Bisu. Their success and victories are less meaningful because their stories can be summarized with "So we bought these guys, and some faltered because their drive was no longer there because of the high salaries, but it's okay because we also got some other guys and it worked out great for us."
SK Telecom T1 and KT are boring because they are the epitome of the financially stable teams. There are no odds stacked against them. There are no miracles. There are no superstars that come out of nowhere, only mercinaries. They are expected to do well, and often do well, and when they don't, it's okay because they can buy more players. Teams like MBCGame reached the top against all odds, but when they couln't keep their best future prospect in Bisu because of financial hardships, the miracle couldn't be sustained and now they're disbanded.
There's no uncertainty for the bigger teams, and while that may make things easier to support them, just know you're supporting the most boring teams also. A bigger trophy cabinet and fan base doesn't always mean a richer history.
CJ ain't the same CJ like it used to be .
Of course. Hite Sparkyz got added to the mix. I don't quite follow how that is the same as specifically recruiting players from less stable teams consistantly throughout the years.
If you are talking about Luxury and Forgg they are long gone from the bw scene . Estro Action wasn't a MsL winner, WJ.CH was sold to KT and I wouldn't call WJ a LESS STABLE team . Fox folded up and their players were put on a draft and KT took in wooki and mind . I don't see what the point you are trying to get here . Most of the players kt drafted were considered to be only specialised in one section of the game and they weren't as good as the msl winners like forgg and luxury .
Focusing purely on the present status of things.
The current CJ Entus has Effort, Snow, Movie and Skyhigh. They were there from the start, and all play a vital role in their team. I remember Snow being hyped as the next great CJ Entus player by coach Cho, comparing him with the likes and Xellos and Savior. Movie was scolded by coach Cho when he was a no-name scrub because his low-apm games made him look like he was browsing the net instead of practicing. All these players grew with their team and their team is much richer for this.
Off the top of my head, the current KT side has... who? Stats, Hoejja, and Barracks. We all know Flash was a WeMade Fox prodigy. Reach made his name as a Hanbit player. Action was known for his defiler play back when he was at Estro. KT continuously buys players, whether they are individual league winners or not (although trades of that magnitude are rarely seen in other teams). It's a huge part of why they are such a good team. Deal with it. Only a minor fraction of the team was there to start off with.
Flash a WeMade prodigy!? He was on Pantech for a very short period of time and played zero televised games with them. That you would choose to so heavily associate him with that team after all these years is bizarre.
I know right? I can understand the sentiment that KT hires a bunch of mercenaries because of fOrGG, luxury, action, crazy-hydra, etc but to claim Flash as anything other than KT is just silly. It's like saying Kobe Bryant isn't an Los Angeles Laker because he spent the first 5 days of his career as a member of the Charlotte Hornets. A player's legacy and a team's history is determined by what actually happened and not what could have been. It's not like Flash was a bonjwa right from the get go. He developed from a cheesy, above average terran to the most skilled player of all time under KT's watch. Maybe it would have happened under FOX but maybe not. Either way Flash is unquestionably 100% KT.
Flash was already the best player on WeMade during practice even before he made his debut. Flash already mentioned how much he improved his game as a practice partner during his time at WeMade (the likes of Hero took him under his wing). It's at WeMade where Flash finally realized his dream as a progamer, it's there where he earned the title of "Nada's protege", it's at WeMade where his parents finally realized that this kid was something special, and decided to let the kid follow his dreams.
The thing is, Pantech had just went out of business and WeMade's future was very unstable. All the other teams, out of respect, decided not to abuse the uncertain future of the WeMade players. Except for KT. They realized the kid's potential and took him away. This is no secret. It was a dirty thing to do, and there were a lot of controversy over it. There was a reason why KT went so far just to take a mere practice partner. Word had spread over how good this kid was. While to the average viewer, he may have been just another progamer, the kid had serious skills to begin with. And to dismiss his time at WeMade just like that, Flash would be the first to tell you how wrong that is. He may be a KT man through and through, but don't be so sure to look over his roots. His legacy definately did not start off at KT.
On March 25 2012 15:53 Letmelose wrote: I like teams that have history and depth. Teams with interesting stories. Teams that create great players, not steal them from less financially stable teams.
Whenever I see the CJ team, I'm reminded of the glorius GO team that had the likes of Go_Rush, Nal_Ra, Midas, ForU, and of course, Xellos. Xellos was a GO man through and through, and stuck with his team and even shared is tournament winnings. The team just oozed class. Plus, coach Cho was awesome. Throughout the years we've seen the rise of so many generations of superb players from the team.
Team 8 reminds me of the now gone POS team and PLUS teams. How July came out of nowhere into superstardom. How he played his designted 1v1 games, 2v2 games as both zerg and terran, ACE matches, and to top things of even 1v1 games as a random player, to support his team while coach Ha constructed the team from rock bottom to discover stars such as Sea. How MBCGame eventually conquered all with their three musketeers. Or the parallel story from the PLUS team with Anytime, and their rise to the top only two years after being the worst team out there by far.
Then there are teams that steal. Like when KT snatched Flash when WeMade Fox was under financial stress. Especially so with SK Telecom T1 with the likes of Midas, and Bisu. Their success and victories are less meaningful because their stories can be summarized with "So we bought these guys, and some faltered because their drive was no longer there because of the high salaries, but it's okay because we also got some other guys and it worked out great for us."
SK Telecom T1 and KT are boring because they are the epitome of the financially stable teams. There are no odds stacked against them. There are no miracles. There are no superstars that come out of nowhere, only mercinaries. They are expected to do well, and often do well, and when they don't, it's okay because they can buy more players. Teams like MBCGame reached the top against all odds, but when they couln't keep their best future prospect in Bisu because of financial hardships, the miracle couldn't be sustained and now they're disbanded.
There's no uncertainty for the bigger teams, and while that may make things easier to support them, just know you're supporting the most boring teams also. A bigger trophy cabinet and fan base doesn't always mean a richer history.
CJ ain't the same CJ like it used to be .
Of course. Hite Sparkyz got added to the mix. I don't quite follow how that is the same as specifically recruiting players from less stable teams consistantly throughout the years.
If you are talking about Luxury and Forgg they are long gone from the bw scene . Estro Action wasn't a MsL winner, WJ.CH was sold to KT and I wouldn't call WJ a LESS STABLE team . Fox folded up and their players were put on a draft and KT took in wooki and mind . I don't see what the point you are trying to get here . Most of the players kt drafted were considered to be only specialised in one section of the game and they weren't as good as the msl winners like forgg and luxury .
Focusing purely on the present status of things.
The current CJ Entus has Effort, Snow, Movie and Skyhigh. They were there from the start, and all play a vital role in their team. I remember Snow being hyped as the next great CJ Entus player by coach Cho, comparing him with the likes and Xellos and Savior. Movie was scolded by coach Cho when he was a no-name scrub because his low-apm games made him look like he was browsing the net instead of practicing. All these players grew with their team and their team is much richer for this.
Off the top of my head, the current KT side has... who? Stats, Hoejja, and Barracks. We all know Flash was a WeMade Fox prodigy. Reach made his name as a Hanbit player. Action was known for his defiler play back when he was at Estro. KT continuously buys players, whether they are individual league winners or not (although trades of that magnitude are rarely seen in other teams). It's a huge part of why they are such a good team. Deal with it. Only a minor fraction of the team was there to start off with.
Flash a WeMade prodigy!? He was on Pantech for a very short period of time and played zero televised games with them. That you would choose to so heavily associate him with that team after all these years is bizarre.
I know right? I can understand the sentiment that KT hires a bunch of mercenaries because of fOrGG, luxury, action, crazy-hydra, etc but to claim Flash as anything other than KT is just silly. It's like saying Kobe Bryant isn't an Los Angeles Laker because he spent the first 5 days of his career as a member of the Charlotte Hornets. A player's legacy and a team's history is determined by what actually happened and not what could have been. It's not like Flash was a bonjwa right from the get go. He developed from a cheesy, above average terran to the most skilled player of all time under KT's watch. Maybe it would have happened under FOX but maybe not. Either way Flash is unquestionably 100% KT.
Flash was already the best player on WeMade during practice even before he made his debut. Flash already mentioned how much he improved his game as a practice partner during his time at WeMade (the likes of Hero took him under his wing). It's at WeMade where Flash finally realized his dream as a progamer, it's there where he earned the title of "Nada's protege", it's at WeMade where his parents finally realized that this kid was something special, and decided to let the kid follow his dreams.
The thing is, Pantech had just went out of business and WeMade's future was very unstable. All the other teams, out of respect, decided not to abuse the uncertain future of the WeMade players. Except for KT. They realized the kid's potential and took him away. This is no secret. It was a dirty thing to do, and there were a lot of controversy over it. There was a reason why KT went so far just to take a mere practice partner. Word had spread over how good this kid was. While to the average viewer, he may have been just another progamer, the kid had serious skills to begin with. And to dismiss his time at WeMade just like that, Flash would be the first to tell you how wrong that is. He may be a KT man through and through, but don't be so sure to look over his roots. His legacy definately did not start off at KT.
Flash was already the best player on WeMade during practice even before he made his debut
Yeah if I was Fox coach if I knew that this kid had really good talent, I would have place him on the Main team instead of just being a Practice partner for Nada and friends .
The only "Nada Protege" for me was Mind at that time he was seriously a freaking monster when he was killing everyone left and right even taking down bisu.Also if my kid wins a courage tournament and got the license to be a pro gamer of course I would have acknowledge my kid was special and would allow him to follow his dream.
For what it is worth to discuss, If KT actually played some dirty tricks to pull out Flash out from Wemade Fox . I am totally disgusted by that and I mean it despite that it only shows how much under the table tricks can do when you have the monetary power at the right time and at the right place .I will of course acknowledge that his roots are in Fox so is Mind,Baby and flash who are now still one of the top terran that are still playing actively in broodwar.
I know it may seem unfair to other teams who have fought their way to victory with their starting players like MBC and CJ formerly GO . Maybe kt is just another team which is merely in existence because company has too much money that they decided to throw it at some broodwar team for amusement and even so . I like KT alot even though if it's just a cheap shot team made by buying players from other team, even real life sports have also done things like this buying all the good players to strengthen their weak players just because they can.
But do people still support players on this " Dirty and unconscionable tactics " played out by the team managers ? Yes they do, because in the end what they like is the players and even if you call it "boring" for supporting this team. That's probably your opinion as I do enjoy supporting KT players through sweet and bitter times . Can I call my team boring ? No for me the players that are on my team are really quite good and have really high potential in their skill . Although at some times it always a 50/50 chance that they may screw up their strategy and things will go wrong and that's only going to make more excited about the possibility rather than being boring.
Supporting kt is nothing but a roller coaster and there always is a risk .
Only thing I remember reading about Flash time on Wemade was an interview of him saying that NaDa did not influence him that much. There's also a clear rupture between Flash pre and post bonjwa, and I think KT's coaching (or more probably a change in their coaching) has a lot to do with it.
Flash fans are the most delusional and defensive, thinking that he's unbeatable and always trying to find excuses for his losses or reasons why he "didn't actually lose", posting long arguments refuting claims that Flash is slumping or could possibly lose a standard game to someone who just played better.
cuz as I said... many Flash fans don't know anything about how to play BW, cuz they don't.
I apologize for the vast number of blanket statements, they help me sleep at night.
On March 25 2012 22:25 corumjhaelen wrote: Only thing I remember reading about Flash time on Wemade was an interview of him saying that NaDa did not influence him that much. There's also a clear rupture between Flash pre and post bonjwa, and I think KT's coaching (or more probably a change in their coaching) has a lot to do with it.
If you intend disreguard his time when Flash wasn't by far and away the best player on the planet, yes, his time at WeMade is meaningless. However, if you are looking at Flash as a progamer, you'd be foolish to do so. That's all I'm saying. All gamers had their roots. When Jaedong first started off, he was so bad that even his coach was able defeat him, but he matured into the zerg legend he is today. When Zero started off, he was just another practice partner with a fast pair of hands. GGPlay once said to him that he would have won so much more if he only had Zero's hand speed. All these little anecdotes of how these fledgling gamers caught the eye of elder gamers and flourished as a gamer of their own right is as important as how they improved after they established themselves in the team. Some people only seem to be interested in the finished product, whereas I feel that a player's relationship with his team is much fuller with these untold, behind the scene stories of pre-debut periods, not bought from a struggling team after establishing himself within the progaming realm even if the average viewer had yet to see him on screen.
As for the words from Flash, here's are the exact words of the interview you mentioned.
Q: During your time at Pantech, you were known as "Nada's protege". Is this correct? Who do you regard as your mentor? A: I was not at a level where I could replicate Nada's style of play. That's not to say I didn't try (laughs). So I decided to improve by myself. I was close to Hero, Firefist, and Pepe at the time. I had to attend school during day time, so they spent all night practicing with me. I improved so much playing with them. I practiced hard by myself, but I wouldn't have improved that much without them. I regard those three as my mentor. Many people say that Nada was my mentor, but to be honest that is not the case. I was young and it was difficult to approach senior gamers, but those three approached me first and helped me practice.
By the time Flash had joined KT, he had already surpassed the likes of Nada during practice hours. He proved his skills by immediately qualifying for the OGN Starleague. He would be the first to tell you that his development into a solid A teamer, hell, a Starleague contender right from the get-go, was pretty much done during his time at WeMade.
On March 25 2012 14:03 Lumire wrote: Honestly if KT didn't have flash they would have less fans then woonjin.
I honestly believe this.
I guess Violet's got a bit of a story to him. Action had a specific game type "imba late game, sucks at getting there" but that doesn't seem to apply much anymore anyway. Hoejja is left-handed and we can relate to him through Old Boy, so he's pretty legit.
But yeah, 90% of them are there for Flash.
I started as a Flash fan when I was only watching the individual leagues before I cared about KT and PL in general, but I guess I learned to love the team as a whole watching them struggle for their first PL championship, do + Show Spoiler [this] +
and win in the finals again after ending up as 3rd despite starting the season in the bottom, potentially win another one this season despite starting with a 0-3 and everyone going "lolol KT sucks without ace match and WL they won't make it," etc.. I believe not all of those 90% are Flash fans only, but they were.
On March 25 2012 15:53 Letmelose wrote: I like teams that have history and depth. Teams with interesting stories. Teams that create great players, not steal them from less financially stable teams.
Whenever I see the CJ team, I'm reminded of the glorius GO team that had the likes of Go_Rush, Nal_Ra, Midas, ForU, and of course, Xellos. Xellos was a GO man through and through, and stuck with his team and even shared is tournament winnings. The team just oozed class. Plus, coach Cho was awesome. Throughout the years we've seen the rise of so many generations of superb players from the team.
Team 8 reminds me of the now gone POS team and PLUS teams. How July came out of nowhere into superstardom. How he played his designted 1v1 games, 2v2 games as both zerg and terran, ACE matches, and to top things of even 1v1 games as a random player, to support his team while coach Ha constructed the team from rock bottom to discover stars such as Sea. How MBCGame eventually conquered all with their three musketeers. Or the parallel story from the PLUS team with Anytime, and their rise to the top only two years after being the worst team out there by far.
Then there are teams that steal. Like when KT snatched Flash when WeMade Fox was under financial stress. Especially so with SK Telecom T1 with the likes of Midas, and Bisu. Their success and victories are less meaningful because their stories can be summarized with "So we bought these guys, and some faltered because their drive was no longer there because of the high salaries, but it's okay because we also got some other guys and it worked out great for us."
SK Telecom T1 and KT are boring because they are the epitome of the financially stable teams. There are no odds stacked against them. There are no miracles. There are no superstars that come out of nowhere, only mercinaries. They are expected to do well, and often do well, and when they don't, it's okay because they can buy more players. Teams like MBCGame reached the top against all odds, but when they couln't keep their best future prospect in Bisu because of financial hardships, the miracle couldn't be sustained and now they're disbanded.
There's no uncertainty for the bigger teams, and while that may make things easier to support them, just know you're supporting the most boring teams also. A bigger trophy cabinet and fan base doesn't always mean a richer history.
CJ ain't the same CJ like it used to be .
Of course. Hite Sparkyz got added to the mix. I don't quite follow how that is the same as specifically recruiting players from less stable teams consistantly throughout the years.
If you are talking about Luxury and Forgg they are long gone from the bw scene . Estro Action wasn't a MsL winner, WJ.CH was sold to KT and I wouldn't call WJ a LESS STABLE team . Fox folded up and their players were put on a draft and KT took in wooki and mind . I don't see what the point you are trying to get here . Most of the players kt drafted were considered to be only specialised in one section of the game and they weren't as good as the msl winners like forgg and luxury .
Focusing purely on the present status of things.
The current CJ Entus has Effort, Snow, Movie and Skyhigh. They were there from the start, and all play a vital role in their team. I remember Snow being hyped as the next great CJ Entus player by coach Cho, comparing him with the likes and Xellos and Savior. Movie was scolded by coach Cho when he was a no-name scrub because his low-apm games made him look like he was browsing the net instead of practicing. All these players grew with their team and their team is much richer for this.
Off the top of my head, the current KT side has... who? Stats, Hoejja, and Barracks. We all know Flash was a WeMade Fox prodigy. Reach made his name as a Hanbit player. Action was known for his defiler play back when he was at Estro. KT continuously buys players, whether they are individual league winners or not (although trades of that magnitude are rarely seen in other teams). It's a huge part of why they are such a good team. Deal with it. Only a minor fraction of the team was there to start off with.
Flash a WeMade prodigy!? He was on Pantech for a very short period of time and played zero televised games with them. That you would choose to so heavily associate him with that team after all these years is bizarre.
I know right? I can understand the sentiment that KT hires a bunch of mercenaries because of fOrGG, luxury, action, crazy-hydra, etc but to claim Flash as anything other than KT is just silly. It's like saying Kobe Bryant isn't an Los Angeles Laker because he spent the first 5 days of his career as a member of the Charlotte Hornets. A player's legacy and a team's history is determined by what actually happened and not what could have been. It's not like Flash was a bonjwa right from the get go. He developed from a cheesy, above average terran to the most skilled player of all time under KT's watch. Maybe it would have happened under FOX but maybe not. Either way Flash is unquestionably 100% KT.
Flash was already the best player on WeMade during practice even before he made his debut. Flash already mentioned how much he improved his game as a practice partner during his time at WeMade (the likes of Hero took him under his wing). It's at WeMade where Flash finally realized his dream as a progamer, it's there where he earned the title of "Nada's protege", it's at WeMade where his parents finally realized that this kid was something special, and decided to let the kid follow his dreams.
The thing is, Pantech had just went out of business and WeMade's future was very unstable. All the other teams, out of respect, decided not to abuse the uncertain future of the WeMade players. Except for KT. They realized the kid's potential and took him away. This is no secret. It was a dirty thing to do, and there were a lot of controversy over it. There was a reason why KT went so far just to take a mere practice partner. Word had spread over how good this kid was. While to the average viewer, he may have been just another progamer, the kid had serious skills to begin with. And to dismiss his time at WeMade just like that, Flash would be the first to tell you how wrong that is. He may be a KT man through and through, but don't be so sure to look over his roots. His legacy definately did not start off at KT.
Flash was already the best player on WeMade during practice even before he made his debut
Yeah if I was Fox coach if I knew that this kid had really good talent, I would have place him on the Main team instead of just being a Practice partner for Nada and friends .
The only "Nada Protege" for me was Mind at that time he was seriously a freaking monster when he was killing everyone left and right even taking down bisu.Also if my kid wins a courage tournament and got the license to be a pro gamer of course I would have acknowledge my kid was special and would allow him to follow his dream.
For what it is worth to discuss, If KT actually played some dirty tricks to pull out Flash out from Wemade Fox . I am totally disgusted by that and I mean it despite that it only shows how much under the table tricks can do when you have the monetary power at the right time and at the right place .I will of course acknowledge that his roots are in Fox so is Mind,Baby and flash who are now still one of the top terran that are still playing actively in broodwar.
I know it may seem unfair to other teams who have fought their way to victory with their starting players like MBC and CJ formerly GO . Maybe kt is just another team which is merely in existence because company has too much money that they decided to throw it at some broodwar team for amusement and even so . I like KT alot even though if it's just a cheap shot team made by buying players from other team, even real life sports have also done things like this buying all the good players to strengthen their weak players just because they can.
But do people still support players on this " Dirty and unconscionable tactics " played out by the team managers ? Yes they do, because in the end what they like is the players and even if you call it "boring" for supporting this team. That's probably your opinion as I do enjoy supporting KT players through sweet and bitter times . Can I call my team boring ? No for me the players that are on my team are really quite good and have really high potential in their skill . Although at some times it always a 50/50 chance that they may screw up their strategy and things will go wrong and that's only going to make more excited about the possibility rather than being boring.
Supporting kt is nothing but a roller coaster and there always is a risk .
Well, Flash made his legend as a KT Rolster player. And as a KT Rolster follower, it's your right to feel pride and joy over his accomplisments, after following him through the thick an thin. Same for all the other players on the team you support. Hell, there's no reason to justify why you like the team you like. Maybe you like that bubble-headed guy that shows up on every KT match. Every team has a unique story to tell, even scumbag teams like SK Telecom T1. Of course it's exciting, but every once a while, you should be prepared for some jabs over your choice of team. The asshole in me is always willing to put down an SK Telecom T1 fan whenever the opportunity presents itself. Same for KT Rolster, although to a much lesser degree. It's kind of like me hating Manchester United. Good football team? Yes. Rich history. Okay. Classy team? No, fuck them.
On March 25 2012 09:49 Tru_m4n wrote: Gonna get a lot of hate for this, since there are a lot of you here, but the most annoying fans has to be the Flash fans. This have nothing at all to do with me liking SKT1, I like most other teams as well (CJ, Khan, Team 8 and ACE), and KT used to be my favourite team back when Nal_rA were there... And they've got Reach now. It's just that I can't for the love of god understand how people can actually like Flash. There's literally nothing about him that I like. So confused.
Well looking at his play, he's done every style imaginable for TvX, aside from the truly one off builds that only Hiya would do. He's been successful with just about any style you can think of. And he's had his share of win streaks and lose streaks. I don't understand why there's "nothing" about him that you like. Is it the methodical nature of his play? The fact he pulls off all in's or rushes off 1 - 2 base? SKT1 terrans have been by far the most methodical due to a proud lineage and there's plenty of fans of fantasy, oov, boxer despite the fact they've also done loads of unorthodox play off 1 - 2 base (the boxer vs yellow bunker rush finals is a good example). It's not like he's always only done 1 style during a certain period either, people called him cheesy back in 2007-2008 but even then he still had 2 - 3 other play styles vs each race and only did things that would be considered cheese 15-20% of the times. Same for when he used to open 14 CC against zerg on every map, he still only did it 20% of the time, the reputations of him being a player that only plays one style has only helped him mind game his opponents.
I'm pretty sure it's got a lot to do with him playing extremely safe and defensive most of the time. I just don't find it appealing at all. It's like, more or less every game, you know exactly what he's going to do. Maybe I'm completely wrong here, but I want to see creative play, unusual builds and unit combinations, and I don't think Flash has got that in his arsenal. I find his gameplay to be very static, it's either black or white. No such thing as grey exist. I fail to see what's so interesting about this.
But this isn't about me disliking Flash, it's the fans that annoy me. Sure, the kid is extremely skilled, but calling him a god is ridiculous. When he loses, you're guaranteed to hear something like "oh, I guess he shows some signs of being human after all", "he let the opponent win", "he's got a cold/insomnia/earwax" or whatever. It's like there's no way anyone else could beat him without there being external factors that work against Flash. That's what bothers me.
On March 25 2012 09:49 Tru_m4n wrote: Gonna get a lot of hate for this, since there are a lot of you here, but the most annoying fans has to be the Flash fans. This have nothing at all to do with me liking SKT1, I like most other teams as well (CJ, Khan, Team 8 and ACE), and KT used to be my favourite team back when Nal_rA were there... And they've got Reach now. It's just that I can't for the love of god understand how people can actually like Flash. There's literally nothing about him that I like. So confused.
He plays starcraft really well and it is fun to watch.
I agree that he's very good at the game, but I don't think he's fun to watch. I totally respect him for being as good as he is, but I don't like him at all.
I just realized something from reading this thread.
Fanboyism is a serious business here at TL. From the Emo STX fans to the Defensive\Serious KT fans to the Offensive T1 fans to the Noisy CJ and Khan Fans to JD fans who awaits his Phoenix personification in the up coming OSL.
P.S. I refer to 'fans' as the majority of the fans of respective teams and not really referring to every single one. So,, try to be less serious about your fanboyism
On March 25 2012 09:49 Tru_m4n wrote: Gonna get a lot of hate for this, since there are a lot of you here, but the most annoying fans has to be the Flash fans. This have nothing at all to do with me liking SKT1, I like most other teams as well (CJ, Khan, Team 8 and ACE), and KT used to be my favourite team back when Nal_rA were there... And they've got Reach now. It's just that I can't for the love of god understand how people can actually like Flash. There's literally nothing about him that I like. So confused.
Well looking at his play, he's done every style imaginable for TvX, aside from the truly one off builds that only Hiya would do. He's been successful with just about any style you can think of. And he's had his share of win streaks and lose streaks. I don't understand why there's "nothing" about him that you like. Is it the methodical nature of his play? The fact he pulls off all in's or rushes off 1 - 2 base? SKT1 terrans have been by far the most methodical due to a proud lineage and there's plenty of fans of fantasy, oov, boxer despite the fact they've also done loads of unorthodox play off 1 - 2 base (the boxer vs yellow bunker rush finals is a good example). It's not like he's always only done 1 style during a certain period either, people called him cheesy back in 2007-2008 but even then he still had 2 - 3 other play styles vs each race and only did things that would be considered cheese 15-20% of the times. Same for when he used to open 14 CC against zerg on every map, he still only did it 20% of the time, the reputations of him being a player that only plays one style has only helped him mind game his opponents.
I'm pretty sure it's got a lot to do with him playing extremely safe and defensive most of the time. I just don't find it appealing at all. It's like, more or less every game, you know exactly what he's going to do. Maybe I'm completely wrong here, but I want to see creative play, unusual builds and unit combinations, and I don't think Flash has got that in his arsenal. I find his gameplay to be very static, it's either black or white. No such thing as grey exist. I fail to see what's so interesting about this.
But this isn't about me disliking Flash, it's the fans that annoy me. Sure, the kid is extremely skilled, but calling him a god is ridiculous. When he loses, you're guaranteed to hear something like "oh, I guess he shows some signs of being human after all", "he let the opponent win", "he's got a cold/insomnia/earwax" or whatever. It's like there's no way anyone else could beat him without there being external factors that work against Flash. That's what bothers me.
On March 25 2012 09:49 Tru_m4n wrote: Gonna get a lot of hate for this, since there are a lot of you here, but the most annoying fans has to be the Flash fans. This have nothing at all to do with me liking SKT1, I like most other teams as well (CJ, Khan, Team 8 and ACE), and KT used to be my favourite team back when Nal_rA were there... And they've got Reach now. It's just that I can't for the love of god understand how people can actually like Flash. There's literally nothing about him that I like. So confused.
He plays starcraft really well and it is fun to watch.
I agree that he's very good at the game, but I don't think he's fun to watch. I totally respect him for being as good as he is, but I don't like him at all.
Basically being a fan of top players is one of the best thing the scene can ask for .If you recall tiger wood before all the shenanigans and back stab he was doing he was really one hell of a player and if you were to go to a match play with tiger wood . The chances of you winning are pretty slim and if you are a fan of tiger wood you will be chanting "Tiger is unbeatable , He is the best ! " . I know I would when I was a kid he was the guy I look to in terms of motivation to get better at the game .
Same thing here applies to Flash, when you are a leading player in a competitive sport like broodwar or any game you will definitely have fans who maybe are fanatical enough to assume that he is god and when he loses it's also logical enough to say he is not feeling well and all the other excuses . From a terran player perspective, Flash has definitely been one of the most studied replays for all new aspiring terran players . Reason number 1 his play is safe , Reason number two it gives you a feeling what you can do and you can't , Reason number 3 he is also one of the best player who is dominating the scene for quite a long time .
If you take into account stork interview with toss girl when he mention that if you take out flash out of the equation in terms of terran doing well . It will make terran look pretty weak, Flash is phenomenal player and I am definitely as a terran player will support him but that doesn't mean I will only support him and not my Fellow KT players who are also one of my favourite players . I think it's all right to hate him, not everyone has the same taste for the food their eat .
I'm a relatively new fan, so this is my perspective and maybe the other fans can start to understand why I post the way I do as a KT fan (a.k.a delusional & defensive lolol):
I started watching pro BW late, only around '09. I was completely new to the scene, and I happened to chance upon a Klazart commentary of one of Flash's game. Although I had 0 clue what was going on while watching, Klazart made him out to be a really cool player. So I continued to watch his games, and a bit of googling led me to TL. I began to read widely about BW strategy and only then did I start to realise how good this Flash kid was at the game, even though we're of the same age. I started watching BW proleague regularly to follow his fortunes, and it naturally made me a KT fan. However, I only truly started to fall in love with KT last season. Like I mentioned in another thread, it was a great story. The team triumphed through adversity after adversity, and were so close to losing in the Grand Finals. But they made it. That really inspired me, and that's why I love KT.
I know about KT's dubious history and I can empathise with people who hate KT because of that. However, I believe this current incarnation of KT to be different. It has personality. It has fighting spirit. You can tell from the KT Zergs doing jack shit in the regular season, then suddenly becoming Jaedongs in the playoffs. You can tell from Stats / Flash's expressions when they lose, and how they promptly get back up for the next game. The emotional contagion I get from KT can't be replicated. I feel their daebak wins, and their epic failures. They are so so human and I really like that. And that's why I'm a KT fan. While I empathise with the haters, it doesn't mean I don't get pissed off, because I see KT as a victim of the previous era and the previous management. The KT of old may have been heartless and abused their financial ability, but I believe KT's current success is not because they bought it. They fought hard for it and had to go through a lot to do it. Fighting hard from last place to first. Doing it all for Violet. Struggling through the playoffs and doing it the hard way. It really demeans their effort and spirit by dismissing it as merely being bought. I resent that. Call me defensive, but I will always be behind KT when somebody flames KT senselessly, because I think I know KT better and I love KT. Call me delusional, because I don't see KT the same way as you do and we've got a different umwelt.
As for my obnoxious posts...well that's part and parcel of being a fan isn't it? Gloating is fun. Petty arguments are fun. Pointing out how your fanatical support for the team is vindicated is fun. Trash talking is fun. Arrogance is guilty fun. The line I try to draw is between fun and plain offensive. I support responsible fun so I'd apologise promptly when I know I cross the line.
As for the most obnoxious group of fans...SKT fans. No other reason other than the fact that I'm a KT fan and they always try to antagonise us KT fans. As for my favourite group of fans, probably the STX fans. It takes a lot of character to support a team like that. They're generally amiable and have a self-depreciating sense of humour as well.
On March 26 2012 00:27 Winechu wrote: As for my favourite group of fans, probably the STX fans. It takes a lot of character to support a team like that. They're generally amiable and have a self-depreciating sense of humour as well.
Winechu You can tell from the KT Zergs doing jack shit in the regular season, then suddenly becoming Jaedongs in the playoffs
Jaedong's yeah I agree them following in the footsteps of jaedong . It's so hard to believe how far they have step up to reach this kind of level . If you ask me about fielding Action vs terran (I would be like are you for real sir ? ) , Hoejja v Zerg (Oh no auto lose send Mind please ) , Crazy-Hydra ? (50-50 the best I will give you ) . Now I see so many possibility I can do with KT zergs in a bw match, it's totally unexpected for them to be doing this well..
On March 26 2012 00:27 Winechu wrote: As for my favourite group of fans, probably the STX fans. It takes a lot of character to support a team like that. They're generally amiable and have a self-depreciating sense of humour as well.
Anyone can be a frontrunner. It's no coincidence that KT and SKT have the most fans.
On March 25 2012 15:53 Letmelose wrote: I like teams that have history and depth. Teams with interesting stories. Teams that create great players, not steal them from less financially stable teams.
Whenever I see the CJ team, I'm reminded of the glorius GO team that had the likes of Go_Rush, Nal_Ra, Midas, ForU, and of course, Xellos. Xellos was a GO man through and through, and stuck with his team and even shared is tournament winnings. The team just oozed class. Plus, coach Cho was awesome. Throughout the years we've seen the rise of so many generations of superb players from the team.
Team 8 reminds me of the now gone POS team and PLUS teams. How July came out of nowhere into superstardom. How he played his designted 1v1 games, 2v2 games as both zerg and terran, ACE matches, and to top things of even 1v1 games as a random player, to support his team while coach Ha constructed the team from rock bottom to discover stars such as Sea. How MBCGame eventually conquered all with their three musketeers. Or the parallel story from the PLUS team with Anytime, and their rise to the top only two years after being the worst team out there by far.
Then there are teams that steal. Like when KT snatched Flash when WeMade Fox was under financial stress. Especially so with SK Telecom T1 with the likes of Midas, and Bisu. Their success and victories are less meaningful because their stories can be summarized with "So we bought these guys, and some faltered because their drive was no longer there because of the high salaries, but it's okay because we also got some other guys and it worked out great for us."
SK Telecom T1 and KT are boring because they are the epitome of the financially stable teams. There are no odds stacked against them. There are no miracles. There are no superstars that come out of nowhere, only mercinaries. They are expected to do well, and often do well, and when they don't, it's okay because they can buy more players. Teams like MBCGame reached the top against all odds, but when they couln't keep their best future prospect in Bisu because of financial hardships, the miracle couldn't be sustained and now they're disbanded.
There's no uncertainty for the bigger teams, and while that may make things easier to support them, just know you're supporting the most boring teams also. A bigger trophy cabinet and fan base doesn't always mean a richer history.
This is what I feel too. It is becoming more and more frustrating to watch PL. I was a big fan of KTF Magicians, but at the time I didn't know the scene very well.
On March 25 2012 23:51 IntoTheheart wrote: I dunno, I'm pretty sure that most die-hards will support their team and bash the other teams (ACE not withstanding obviously, everyone loves ACE).
Why would anyone do that? You're making your fanbase look immature and you're not attracting any new fans anyway.
Um Flash has more variety in his play than any other terran aside from Fantasy. He also has more variety in his play then every zerg and every protoss except maybe for Bisu (and actually I'm pretty sure that he has more variety in his play than Bisu). He is extremely unpredictable and him and Fantasy are always on the forefront of every new terran build.
i mean this is really silly, i think we're all just happy that there's still BW going on at this stage. i think the only thing that's even slightly annoying is the bisu fanboys, but the osl is restarting soon so if they were making noise, they won't be shortly
MBC fan, so T8 now, its sucked losing so many of our best players over the years... july, bisu, light. But if anything it makes you love what you have, sea is like the best person in the world, and I love the mighty hoon, tyson and those that weren't able to make the transition like Hyun, Shark, Saint and all the rest. And the positives of merging into T8 is that FOX were my 2nd favourite team and I always liked OZ, I couldn't have asked for better teams to merge with. Yea this season has not been the best, but I have hope
On March 26 2012 05:08 Lightwip wrote: Hoejja is the only player still left on KT that I don't hate.
Nope, Hoejja's beaten Bisu too.
Yep, compulsory hostility. As surprising as it may seem, I don't hate/like players based on whether or not they have ever beaten Bisu. But you are not above being a hostile troll.
On March 26 2012 05:08 Lightwip wrote: Hoejja is the only player still left on KT that I don't hate.
Nope, Hoejja's beaten Bisu too.
Yep, compulsory hostility. As surprising as it may seem, I don't hate/like players based on whether or not they have ever beaten Bisu. But you are not above being a hostile troll.
With your LR history you really don't have any right to submit this post, lol.
On March 26 2012 08:48 shaftofpleasure wrote: I wonder what would happen if this was on the SC2 forum.
They wouldn't know anything about the teams and would vote randomly? the average sc2 fan is probably only familiar with TBLS, and MAYBE what teams they're on.
On March 26 2012 08:48 shaftofpleasure wrote: I wonder what would happen if this was on the SC2 forum.
They wouldn't know anything about the teams and would vote randomly? the average sc2 fan is probably only familiar with TBLS, and MAYBE what teams they're on.
On March 26 2012 08:48 shaftofpleasure wrote: I wonder what would happen if this was on the SC2 forum.
They wouldn't know anything about the teams and would vote randomly? the average sc2 fan is probably only familiar with TBLS, and MAYBE what teams they're on.
What I meant SC2 teams. And they had SC2 team tags just like ours. Chaos would ensue, I think.
On March 26 2012 08:48 shaftofpleasure wrote: I wonder what would happen if this was on the SC2 forum.
They wouldn't know anything about the teams and would vote randomly? the average sc2 fan is probably only familiar with TBLS, and MAYBE what teams they're on.
What I meant SC2 teams. And they had SC2 team tags just like ours. Chaos would ensue, I think.
Well there is barely any team identity at the moment in sc2 so I doubt people would give much of a shit, because teamleagues are in the minority and less prestigious than individual tournaments, which sucks massively, but hopefully there will be a shift at some point
EPT
Sorry skt1 fans.
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