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Hi all !
1.1k Diamond protoss here and I am having some difficulty in PvZ (mostly because I have faced very few zergs until I hit diamond).
So I am wondering: in PvZ, do you prefer to do a stargate opening or a robo opening ? Why ?
Please vote AND post to explain your point of view !
Poll: In PvZ, do you open with a stargate or a robo ?I am diamond and I open with robo in PvZ (42) 35% I am diamond and I open with a stargate in PvZ (35) 29% I am platinum (or lower) and I open with stargate in PvZ (22) 18% I am platinum (or lower) and I open with robo in PvZ (22) 18% 121 total votes Your vote: In PvZ, do you open with a stargate or a robo ? (Vote): I am diamond and I open with a stargate in PvZ
(Vote): I am diamond and I open with robo in PvZ
(Vote): I am platinum (or lower) and I open with stargate in PvZ
(Vote): I am platinum (or lower) and I open with robo in PvZ
How big was your initial push ?
If you went stargate: how many void ray/phoenix did you have when you attacked ?
If you went robo: how many zealots/stalkers/sentry/immortals did you have when you attacked ?
DarthLeader
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I prefer a Robo opening. It's kinda obvious with the Roach change that people are spamming Roaches (at least at the current moment), so Immortals make sense to me. Colossus are a nice addon at the end, but it isn't uncommon for me to win the game outright with a counterpush after the Roach rush. Also, Observers usually go uncontested for me, Zerg are always relunctant to morph Overseers unless they absolutely need to (Unless I simply haven't run into better Zerg yet).
I don't have a timing necessarily, but here's what I usually have when I push.
5-6 Zealots
4-5 Stalkers
1-2 Sentries
1-2 Immortals
I probably have +1 already done too.
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On October 16 2010 11:45 piroko139 wrote:
I probably have +1 already done too.
Definitely an important little note at the end of that post.
I'm still toying with my opening to figure it out. I find Robo openings have problems with muta/ling builds, but it's possible I just need better timing to hit them before the spire goes up.
I've been playing with a Stargate opening and getting 3-4 Phoenix to harass and shut down any Spire plans while I expand. After that, it's either Templar Tech or a Robo with little coming out of the Stargate at that point (my only issue with the build, but Stargate is so weak to Hydras).
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I do a stargate opening, where I go harass with my first Void Ray, and use my second for defense, or more harassment, if it is being effective. I will build 3-6 gateway units in the meantime. After my second Void Ray I build a Robo bay (I can get it quicker if i get less gateway units). Based on my first Void Ray's scouting, I decide whether I should expand now, build a second robotics facility or gateway, or get more units. After expanding I get a phoenix to scout with, instead of an observer, allowing for faster collosus/more immortals.
I like a stargate opening against zerg because it allows me to retreat my units without getting them swarmed by zerglings. This means I don't lose them after harassing, and can expand earlier. A Void Ray at my ramp will allow me to hold off any number of zerglings and roaches, though I may have to wall off in some cases. I only need a sentry against banelings. If I see a spire, I can immediately start building a second stargate and start pumping phoenix/void ray while I expand. The single robotics bay is still useful to get a collosus (since it is mutas AND lings) and observers.
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Stalkers usually make quick work of roaches, so why not an extra void ray to pressure them to get off roaches and spend more resources tech switching?
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Haha, I wish I knew exactly what Zerg do that makes Stargate openings so unpopular. Whenever I see a Phoenix I sigh because I'm going to have to make Hydras, which means throwing gas into units that I can't go on the offensive with (because it takes a while to spread creep far enough), and the toss will probably have Colossi out by the time I'm able to attack.
I'm so much more comfortable going Roach/ling or Muta/ling builds, which work quite nicely against Robo openings.
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On October 16 2010 12:00 archon256 wrote:
Whenever I see a Phoenix I sigh because I'm going to have to make Hydras
On October 16 2010 11:50 Raislin wrote:
3-4 Phoenix to harass and shut down any Spire plans
Simply building a stargate puts more control into your hands. The problem with stargate opening is how do we Protoss most effectively utilize that Stargate? I don't like Void Rays in this matchup because Phoenix are what shut down Mutalisks, allow you to scout effortlessly and harass annoyingly.
However, too many Phoenix becomes an auto-loss. That's why I'm toying with a two gate, one Stargate opening with 3ish Phoenix, lots of Zealots and enough Stalkers/Sentry to allow me to spend my gas and expand. I need more games to learn more about timings and weaknesses. The strengths are definitely quite apparent.
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It's called Corrupters. Equal resource of corrupters beats every protoss unit but void ray. With Void ray they are only equal, unless they run away when charged then they are better. Protoss will also be spending more money on minerals than the zerg player. If the Zerg player gets up a expo before the protoss, they will always out macro him and win if he goes stargate tech. And the Zerg player also has the micro advantage, since his units are faster, have abilities that work against air, and do splash damage. On the other hand, if the Protoss manages to delay the Zerg's expansion and expand themselves, there is a timing window they can exploit against the zerg player.
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Phoenix, partly because mass muta is obnoxious, partly because phoenixs are great fun.
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Zerg just got too many buffs making it far easier for them to just expand every game against protoss without fear of any repercussions, if they would of just upped the hp it would of been one thing, but giving them all those unit buffs was stupid too.
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PvZ is still P favored...
And we can FE too yaknow :/
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I want to open stargate so badly, but roaches make it tough. I get a lot of basically free wins opening stargate when the z goes standard muta/ling, but recently (and it's going to be more because of 1.2) people have been pushing with roaches again.
I think robo is the better choice, for obs + immortals, but if you scout them and theyre going muta/ling I put down a stargate and slowly add pheonix, as opposed to an instant 2 gate into stargate opening that I was doing before. Zerg will eventually have to get hydras, and I can switch into collosi.
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I've been going 2 gate into stargate, getting 4 Phoenixes, and then making a gateway push while sniping overlords with my Phoenixes--I've found that if I can kill enough OLs to supply block them while I'm pushing with gateway units, it cripples their ability to reinforce and I can roll them.
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On October 16 2010 12:00 archon256 wrote:
Haha, I wish I knew exactly what Zerg do that makes Stargate openings so unpopular. Whenever I see a Phoenix I sigh because I'm going to have to make Hydras, which means throwing gas into units that I can't go on the offensive with (because it takes a while to spread creep far enough), and the toss will probably have Colossi out by the time I'm able to attack.
I'm so much more comfortable going Roach/ling or Muta/ling builds, which work quite nicely against Robo openings.
Half the time I open Stargate, Z launches an attack with massed roaches and ends the game against my smattering of gateway units.
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That's what sentries are for :p Just hold your ramp. Play it like early pvt.
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Bronze, I used to open stargate against Z for a quick void or two and a phoenix scout. Not so sure now though, likely going to switch to robo for the safer-scouting of an obs and faster immortals/collosi.
Usually would harrass with the rays (and perhaps phoenix) while building my gateway army, and trying to scare him into making mutas (in which case i'd continue with phoenixes) or hydras (switch tech to collossi)
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Protoss to protoss here, we're about the same (I'm 1150 toss). I like opening 2 gate early pressure, which forces them to get roaches quick (or mass speeds). Depending on what I see I counter, if I see mass speedlings -> VR (pheonix). If i see roaches, I throw robo down and come out with an immortal.
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I've been opening cannons in natural or FE versus Z lately, but I loves the robo.
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FE gets hit hard by Roaches now, actually. Since they can hit the buildings in front of the cannon without taking any damage.
But against a Stargate build? Eh.. I dunno. I've won with a Roach push against it in the past, but there have been many instances where the Protoss just delays with Force Fields and gets out Void Rays, and also uses Graviton Beam to cut down on my Roach numbers, while his Phoenix numbers keep growing unchecked.
With Phoenix out I cant get Muta to kill the VRs, and it's hard to build up a decent Hydra force with my econ ruined...
Only times I've been able to win are when I somehow delay the Protoss long enough to get out Ultras. But that's pretty rare.
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Well that 1cannon FE was incredibly greedy ^_^
Can still FE and just be less greedy about it.
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EPT
