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[OSL] ro16 2-2 - Page 55

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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AltaiR_
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Korea (South)922 Posts
February 13 2009 12:04 GMT
#1081
another crucial mistake was hwasin left alone 1 o clock until it mined out, never even touched it
Translator
GHOSTCLAW
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States17042 Posts
February 13 2009 12:04 GMT
#1082
On February 13 2009 21:03 Tyxiquale wrote:
ah.. that was fucking smart of flash.. something I didn't pick up before.. and when the commentators went back to the replay, it made sense..

flash killed 2 out of 4 dropships with his 6oclock gollies.. even sacrificing a few of them, then lifted his ebay to take turret fire, and immediately elevated all his shit upstairs..

goddamn beautiful play


he did it twice, and the second time, I think hwasin did a better job of manually telling his turrets to hit the dropships. Flash just had enough units to overwhelm hwasin's defensive force, and that's what turned the game
PhotographerLiquipedia. Drop me a pm if you've got questions/need help.
Jayme
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States5866 Posts
February 13 2009 12:04 GMT
#1083
So of all the people today GGplays last 10 games are atrocious.
Python is garbage, number 1 advocate of getting rid of it.
GinNtoniC
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Sweden2945 Posts
February 13 2009 12:05 GMT
#1084
On February 13 2009 21:03 Tyxiquale wrote:
ah.. that was fucking smart of flash.. something I didn't pick up before.. and when the commentators went back to the replay, it made sense..

flash killed 2 out of 4 dropships with his 6oclock gollies.. even sacrificing a few of them, then lifted his ebay to take turret fire, and immediately elevated all his shit upstairs..

goddamn beautiful play

I thought the ebay thing was pretty damn obvious
But yeah, it was a cute (and necessary!) touch to pulling the first phase of the elevator off!
Huge fan of JulyZerg, HonestTea and that guy Kim Taek Yong.
Jaksiel
Profile Joined November 2008
United States4130 Posts
February 13 2009 12:05 GMT
#1085
Luxury is a much cooler name than Practice, why would he change it...
Zero fighting.
ssj114
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
Afghanistan461 Posts
February 13 2009 12:05 GMT
#1086
By the way, Flash and Bisu are making the TLPD ELO 2300 barrier a joke. If they keep this up, they may even crack 2400. In my opinion, the ELO needs to be revised, so as to pay respect to the early era masters like Boxer, NaDa, iloveoov.
Sandboxie + SUA + DEP, Windows Firewall + NAT Router
GHOSTCLAW
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States17042 Posts
February 13 2009 12:05 GMT
#1087
On February 13 2009 21:03 darktreb wrote:
If Flash manages to beat Best next week, this game will be looked back upon as one of those great games that displayed the sheer will of a champion. Flash was sooooo close to being on the brink of OSL elimination (would have needed to beat Best and Hwasin to win just to get into a tiebreaker). Now his fate is in his own hands (as is every other player in the group).


best's PvT hasn't been very good recently imo. He needs to start being able to win with something else other than 2 base into arb. Other players have called his number on that particular build recently.
PhotographerLiquipedia. Drop me a pm if you've got questions/need help.
o[twist]
Profile Joined May 2008
United States4903 Posts
February 13 2009 12:05 GMT
#1088
On February 13 2009 21:04 AltaiR_ wrote:
another crucial mistake was hwasin left alone 1 o clock until it mined out, never even touched it


yeah 1 or 9 would have been easy drops.
Rucky
Profile Joined February 2008
United States717 Posts
February 13 2009 12:06 GMT
#1089
I wouldn't call this a comeback from flash at all and definitely not HUGE. Since flash had the advantage the entire game. Earlier 3rd, earlier 4th, Earlier 5th. He was always 1 base ahead of hwasin. The only reason hwasin seem to be winning in terms of army is just because flash was expanding. Also, the game to me was flash pushing and pushing hwasin. Hwasin never did any pushing just defending. Just because hwasin was able to defend off the pushes of Flash doesn't mean he was at an advantage to win the game.

Hwasin did do a beautiful contain on Flash, but he didn't expand to capitalize on it or gain any advantage from it besides being safe for couple minutes. It was short lived.

BASICALLY Flash simply had the lead from the beginning and won from it.

If you were to cut the map in half, flash can easily secure the 9expo and hwasin can easily defend the 5 expo. That puts both players at 4 bases. Flash took the 12/1expo which was the one that's between flash and hwasin. To match (gas)bases, Hwasin was left with either the main or nat that's empty which either way is harder to secure. I think Hwasin should have fought for the 12/1 expo base and force flash to take the main or nat instead. This would have put Hwasin in a better position and defense of his main.

BASICALLY whoever secured that 12/1 expo between them has an advantage to win the game.
Beyond the Game
GinNtoniC
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Sweden2945 Posts
February 13 2009 12:06 GMT
#1090
On February 13 2009 21:05 ssj114 wrote:
By the way, Flash and Bisu are making the TLPD ELO 2300 barrier a joke. If they keep this up, they may even crack 2400. In my opinion, the ELO needs to be revised, so as to pay respect to the early era masters like Boxer, NaDa, iloveoov.

That's like changing the time system to make sure Michael Johnson never loses his world record at 400m ^^
Huge fan of JulyZerg, HonestTea and that guy Kim Taek Yong.
GHOSTCLAW
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States17042 Posts
February 13 2009 12:06 GMT
#1091
On February 13 2009 21:05 o[twist] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2009 21:04 AltaiR_ wrote:
another crucial mistake was hwasin left alone 1 o clock until it mined out, never even touched it


yeah 1 or 9 would have been easy drops.


he was focused on making it into the later game, and assuming that his positional advantage would allow him to coast into an easy win.

To be fair to hwasin, he did pretty much everything right, and forced flash to take the initiative, and do something amazing to get back in the game.

Too bad doing almost everything right isn't good enough against flash
PhotographerLiquipedia. Drop me a pm if you've got questions/need help.
NovaTheFeared
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States7232 Posts
February 13 2009 12:06 GMT
#1092
Truly sick game from Flash, can't believe he pulled that one out. And with so little practice time with all the games he's been playing recently.
日本語が分かりますか
Jaksiel
Profile Joined November 2008
United States4130 Posts
February 13 2009 12:07 GMT
#1093
On February 13 2009 21:06 NovaTheFeared wrote:
Truly sick game from Flash, can't believe he pulled that one out. And with so little practice time with all the games he's been playing recently.


Eating helps.
Zero fighting.
GinNtoniC
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Sweden2945 Posts
February 13 2009 12:08 GMT
#1094
On February 13 2009 21:06 Rucky wrote:
I wouldn't call this a comeback from flash at all and definitely not HUGE. Since flash had the advantage the entire game. Earlier 3rd, earlier 4th, Earlier 5th. He was always 1 base ahead of hwasin. The only reason hwasin seem to be winning in terms of army is just because flash was expanding. Also, the game to me was flash pushing and pushing hwasin. Hwasin never did any pushing just defending. Just because hwasin was able to defend off the pushes of Flash doesn't mean he was at an advantage to win the game.

Hwasin did do a beautiful contain on Flash, but he didn't expand to capitalize on it or gain any advantage from it besides being safe for couple minutes. It was short lived.

BASICALLY Flash simply had the lead from the beginning and won from it.

If you were to cut the map in half, flash can easily secure the 9expo and hwasin can easily defend the 5 expo. That puts both players at 4 bases. Flash took the 12/1expo which was the one that's between flash and hwasin. To match (gas)bases, Hwasin was left with either the main or nat that's empty which either way is harder to secure. I think Hwasin should have fought for the 12/1 expo base and force flash to take the main or nat instead. This would have put Hwasin in a better position and defense of his main.

BASICALLY whoever secured that 12/1 expo between them has an advantage to win the game.

There are so many reasons why I disagree about this. Don't stare yourself blind at expansion counts and the fact that Flash never was more than 30 supply behind. The positional advantage, the dropship count and the the contain together made for a very strong advantage.
Huge fan of JulyZerg, HonestTea and that guy Kim Taek Yong.
Malongo
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Chile3472 Posts
February 13 2009 12:08 GMT
#1095
On February 13 2009 21:03 GinNtoniC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2009 21:01 malongo wrote:
Actually hwasin lost because his lack of initiative, he was always defending and his dropships flying around defending the early postional advantage. Aside from delaying 9 hwasin never attacked flash nor countered one single time all game.

That's actually a sick valid point. When hwasin had 4-5 turrets at 9'o clock and a dropship advantage.... Why didn't HE try to elevate onto the high ground above Flash's main?
With the turrets for elevator base, it would have been really hard to drop on top of that.

Why didn't I think of this? Why didn't Hwasin think of this?
That should actually have sealed the deal right there, or at least have bought Hwasin enough time to secure those lower expansions.
You sir, have a greater strategical mind than this poster.

My guess is that hwasin overlooked the fact that the positional early advantage doesnt win the game by its own. He always was "reacting" to Flashs attempts to fight for the 3rd main/expos. Thanks for your comment.
Help me! im still improving my English. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. M. G.
Crunchums
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States11144 Posts
February 13 2009 12:08 GMT
#1096
If GGplay loses this, Jaedong automatically qualifies for the ro8
brood war for life, brood war forever
NovaTheFeared
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States7232 Posts
February 13 2009 12:08 GMT
#1097
On February 13 2009 21:06 Rucky wrote:
I wouldn't call this a comeback from flash at all and definitely not HUGE. Since flash had the advantage the entire game. Earlier 3rd, earlier 4th, Earlier 5th. He was always 1 base ahead of hwasin. The only reason hwasin seem to be winning in terms of army is just because flash was expanding. Also, the game to me was flash pushing and pushing hwasin. Hwasin never did any pushing just defending. Just because hwasin was able to defend off the pushes of Flash doesn't mean he was at an advantage to win the game.

Hwasin did do a beautiful contain on Flash, but he didn't expand to capitalize on it or gain any advantage from it besides being safe for couple minutes. It was short lived.

BASICALLY Flash simply had the lead from the beginning and won from it.

If you were to cut the map in half, flash can easily secure the 9expo and hwasin can easily defend the 5 expo. That puts both players at 4 bases. Flash took the 12/1expo which was the one that's between flash and hwasin. To match (gas)bases, Hwasin was left with either the main or nat that's empty which either way is harder to secure. I think Hwasin should have fought for the 12/1 expo base and force flash to take the main or nat instead. This would have put Hwasin in a better position and defense of his main.

BASICALLY whoever secured that 12/1 expo between them has an advantage to win the game.


The main is WAY WAY WAY more important than 12 or 9. Hwasin's position throughout the entire mid and lategame was superior.
日本語が分かりますか
ssj114
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
Afghanistan461 Posts
February 13 2009 12:08 GMT
#1098
On February 13 2009 21:06 GinNtoniC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2009 21:05 ssj114 wrote:
By the way, Flash and Bisu are making the TLPD ELO 2300 barrier a joke. If they keep this up, they may even crack 2400. In my opinion, the ELO needs to be revised, so as to pay respect to the early era masters like Boxer, NaDa, iloveoov.

That's like changing the time system to make sure Michael Johnson never loses his world record at 400m ^^


Not quite (I think). ELO is relative and tends to increase with time (I think). Just look at the chess ELOs nowadays. 10 years ago, above 2700 was considered top few in the world. Now? Well, everyone in the top 50 are just about over 2700.
Sandboxie + SUA + DEP, Windows Firewall + NAT Router
darktreb
Profile Joined May 2007
United States3019 Posts
February 13 2009 12:08 GMT
#1099
On February 13 2009 21:05 GHOSTCLAW wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2009 21:03 darktreb wrote:
If Flash manages to beat Best next week, this game will be looked back upon as one of those great games that displayed the sheer will of a champion. Flash was sooooo close to being on the brink of OSL elimination (would have needed to beat Best and Hwasin to win just to get into a tiebreaker). Now his fate is in his own hands (as is every other player in the group).


best's PvT hasn't been very good recently imo. He needs to start being able to win with something else other than 2 base into arb. Other players have called his number on that particular build recently.


I agree but you can never count out players like Best (just like you can never count out players like Flash). The real issue is just how many games will Flash have to play next week and will he have any TvP left in the tank? He hasn't played any TvP for a long time now and ironically, TvP is now his worst matchup statistically. Of course, we're still talking about the indisputable (see Katrina, Medusa) best TvP player of this generation and possibly of all time here.

trollbone
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
France1905 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-13 12:10:07
February 13 2009 12:09 GMT
#1100
Next week wont be a win-win match

If Best beat (T)Flash, Best and (T)Flash advvance

If (T)Flash beat Best, (T)Flash adavnce and we look at (T)Hwasin/(T)UpMagiC
- if (T)Hwasin win, (T)Hwasin advance
- if (T)UpMagiC advance, Tie-Break with (T)UpMagiC, Best, (T)Hwasin
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