Thanks to disciple & Lightwip for the banner, and to Amnesia for the thread format. Saturday, Jan 29 4:00am GMT (GMT+00:00), Channel MBCGame 2010 PDPop MBCGameRound of 8: Day 2 vs
As much as I like great and dislike Kal, I've gotta admit I'll be rooting for Kal considering if great wins it'll a ZvZ ro4. Great and Kal are exactly 50-50 with 2 games each, so it can go either way really.
hmmm so after testing the waters with the internet at my new place I think I should be able to stream decently. I'll go live on the calendar if all is well when it starts.
Well, the thing about ZvZ is it's either over quickly or goes to Hive, which is cool. I've honestly gotten to like it better than PvP most of the time.
On January 29 2011 13:04 Musoeun wrote: Well, the thing about ZvZ is it's either over quickly or goes to Hive, which is cool. I've honestly gotten to like it better than PvP most of the time.
I've actually gotten to the point where I genuinely enjoy ZvZ because of the on-the-spot decision-making and micro needed.
Fuck PvP though, feels like such a stupidly luck-based matchup a lot of the time.
On January 29 2011 13:04 Musoeun wrote: Well, the thing about ZvZ is it's either over quickly or goes to Hive, which is cool. I've honestly gotten to like it better than PvP most of the time.
I've actually gotten to the point where I genuinely enjoy ZvZ because of the on-the-spot decision-making and micro needed.
Fuck PvP though, feels like such a stupidly luck-based matchup a lot of the time.
Any matchup where Reavers are the "go to build" are awesome in my opinion
On January 29 2011 13:04 Musoeun wrote: Well, the thing about ZvZ is it's either over quickly or goes to Hive, which is cool. I've honestly gotten to like it better than PvP most of the time.
I've actually gotten to the point where I genuinely enjoy ZvZ because of the on-the-spot decision-making and micro needed.
Fuck PvP though, feels like such a stupidly luck-based matchup a lot of the time.
Either luck based, or it gets to the lategame and it's often pure mindless macro... Given the map, mutaaaaas out without anything going on !
I'm Calm's most vocal fan, and I wish he loses today in order to put more practice into his mutamicro and over-all decision making. He really needs to man up again.
On January 29 2011 13:23 thopol wrote: I like the polls in the recommended games. Nice OP Jalstar.
Yep, even though none of my favorite old finals are in the OP (I'd have voted Boxer vs YellOw or YellOw vs Xellos). It was very hard to vote for the modern one though.
On January 29 2011 13:26 mustaju wrote: I'm Calm's most vocal fan, and I wish he loses today in order to put more practice into his mutamicro and over-all decision making. He really needs to man up again.
On January 29 2011 13:26 mustaju wrote: I'm Calm's most vocal fan, and I wish he loses today in order to put more practice into his mutamicro and over-all decision making. He really needs to man up again.
On January 29 2011 13:26 mustaju wrote: I'm Calm's most vocal fan, and I wish he loses today in order to put more practice into his mutamicro and over-all decision making. He really needs to man up again.
clam understands that he loses i think X_X Hydra has read his probable build perfectly, 9 pool is absolutely countered by this as far as I've seen in games.
On January 29 2011 13:35 renzy wrote: STARSENSE CALM! PUTS DOWN A SUNKEN WHEN HYDRA MADE A SHITLOAD OF LINGS
that isn't starsense he literally has an overlord in his opponents main to see it coming AND that mass ling timing is perfectly standard for this build >__>
woah this could be interesting calm puts down 2 sunkens and takes all drones off gas cause he's got enough for mutas puts a 2nd hatch hydra forces to make a whole 4 spore colonies X_x
Textbook play from that situation from Hydra. Run mutas into the main, zerglings into the front. He can't counter-attack if he kills off your mutas because you've still got spore coverage. You can ignore his muta flock and pick off drones at will.
It's not quite that easy though, looks like Hydra took to heart some lessons from the spore ZvZ master. To pull that off takes effort.
watching hydra dismantling calm like that makes me happy because we know hydra is gonna give jaedong a run for his money. hoping now for kal to beat great
my god when did hydra become such a beast in ZvZ? The guy is now 18-2 in his last 20 ZvZ's. Before that his career record was 13-22 and coming off of a 1win 11 losses. Now HvZ is looking even stronger than JvZ. If the finals has to come down to ZvZ, I'm not so sure I would put Jaedong as the favorite against Hydra.
edit: Apparently Hydra is going to face Jaedong in the semis. I take back what I said pregame about not watching a ZvZ semis.
On January 29 2011 13:44 DarkMatter_ wrote: Damn, JD vs. Hydra is anyone's game. Hydra's decision making and muta micro are almost flawless.
An in form jaedong is still way better. Also calm played like complete trash lol. Can't wait to see how JD's zvz is doing tho. He's actually looked really really strong in anything that isnt zvp lately (this is all assuming he doesnt get kal tho...if kal wins today. Are the brackets already determined or are the matchups random in ro4?)
On January 29 2011 13:45 red4ce wrote: my god when did hydra become such a beast in ZvZ? The guy is now 18-2 in his last 20 ZvZ's. Before that his carere record was 13-22 and coming off of a 1win 11 losses. Now HvZ is looking even stronger than JvZ. If the finals has to come down to ZvZ, I'm not so sure I would put Jaedong as the favorite against Hydra.
They are playing in the semi-finals, if I understand the graphic they showed correctly.
On January 29 2011 13:45 red4ce wrote: my god when did hydra become such a beast in ZvZ? The guy is now 18-2 in his last 20 ZvZ's. Before that his carere record was 13-22 and coming off of a 1win 11 losses. Now HvZ is looking even stronger than JvZ. If the finals has to come down to ZvZ, I'm not so sure I would put Jaedong as the favorite against Hydra.
If Great wins against Kal, and Hydra wins MSL after beating Great, and the winner of (Jaedong and Zero), I think we can use the word HvZ
On January 29 2011 13:44 DarkMatter_ wrote: Damn, JD vs. Hydra is anyone's game. Hydra's decision making and muta micro are almost flawless.
An in form jaedong is still way better. Also calm played like complete trash lol. Can't wait to see how JD's zvz is doing tho. He's actually looked really really strong in anything that isnt zvp lately (this is all assuming he doesnt get kal tho...if kal wins today. Are the brackets already determined or are the matchups random in ro4?)
I believe the Semis are gonna be Jaedong vs Hydra and Zero vs winner of Kal/Great. I have no idea how the JD/Hydra semis are gonna go, Hydra is looking incredibly in ZvZ but Jaedong is Jaedong.
On January 29 2011 13:44 DarkMatter_ wrote: Damn, JD vs. Hydra is anyone's game. Hydra's decision making and muta micro are almost flawless.
An in form jaedong is still way better. Also calm played like complete trash lol. Can't wait to see how JD's zvz is doing tho. He's actually looked really really strong in anything that isnt zvp lately (this is all assuming he doesnt get kal tho...if kal wins today. Are the brackets already determined or are the matchups random in ro4?)
I think it's Hydra vs Jaedong, ZerO vs winner of Kal/great, so already determined.
I'm actually really scared for Jaedong, after seeing Hydra's ZvZ lately.
Well... based on the fact that Hydra has pretty crappy ling micro, JD should be fine as long as he 12hatches in every game. The only thing that really "beats" a 12 hatch is 9pool but that requires the 9pooler to actually do damage with the initial lings, something I doubt Hydra can pull off against JD.
Still, will be interesting to watch (read: terrifying).
I am so disappointed in Calm's performance. I am almost certain that Kal will play badly too, considering the absolutely horrible game between him and HiyA.
On January 29 2011 13:46 swanized wrote: I'm quite surprised hydra caught up to calm's muta count so quickly in this game, calm should had taken his expansion a lot faster
He prob had flashbacks to his game vs JD on FS and wanted to be safe(r). (expanding off one muta and then losing hat to lings) Only difference between that game and this was that JD 10hatched in main.
Commentators: Congratuations Hydra on your victory! Hydra: Thank you :D
Q: Your thoughts on advancing this far? Hydra: I didn't think that I would advance this far, really, so I'm a bit surprised at myself... I'm really pleased with the results though.
Q: You must feel happy that you took out the #2 Zerg! (That's what they call Calm apparently...) Hydra: Yes indeed ^^
Q: How do you feel about your teammate Snow losing to Jaedong? Hydra: I feel relieved, actually. It's a relief that Jaedong won over Snow.
Commentators: LOLOLOL WHAT THE HECK, THIS GUY IS CALLING JAEDONG ADVANCING OVER SNOW A "RELIEF"... Why do you say that Jaedong beating Snow is good?! Hydra: Well, because practicing against a fellow teammate would be really difficult and awkward... So I was glad to see that Jaedong won over Snow. Commentators: Loool, okaaaaaaaay if you say so~ XDDD
Q: Your thoughts on the last set? Hydra: I came with a build for this map if I spawned far away from Calm, and it turned out that it was the right one to choose today.
Q: Thoughts on going up against Jaedong next? Hydra: I'll have to see about the maps to find a way to counter him, but I don't feel that daunted. I think that I'll be able to defeat him if I just have confidence in myself and practice really hard.
Q: Your little brother came today! Did he just come by himself, or did you call him out to come out today? Hydra: Oh, I was just told yesterday that he would come out and watch me today. It makes me happy to see him in the audience. ^^
Commentators: What's his name?! :D Hydra: Huh? :D; Commentators: His name!! Hydra: Oh, it's "Shin Dong Hyuk". ^^ *Camera shows a grinning Shin Dong Hyuk in the audience*
Commentators: It's really great to see that your little sibling would come out and watch you today, we wish you the best of luck Hydra and congratulations on your win! Hydra: Thank you very much. ^^
Even though I like Great, I'm hoping that Kal can pull a comeback and win his series. ZerO v Kal has the potential to be really interesting (and would give ZerO a good shot at making the finals, something that would make me very happy).
On January 29 2011 14:01 Goragoth wrote: Even though I like Great, I'm hoping that Kal can pull a comeback and win his series. ZerO v Kal has the potential to be really interesting (and would give ZerO a good shot at making the finals, something that would make me very happy).
ZerO vs Kal has the potential to be:
1) another 3-0 ZvP roflstomp by ZerO or 2) an amazing screw-up fest that no one can predict the ending of.
Or I guess Kal could remember how to play, but he hasn't been demonstrating it so far.
On January 29 2011 13:58 Spica wrote: Q: How do you feel about your teammate Snow losing to Jaedong? Hydra: I feel relieved, actually. It's a relief that Jaedong won over Snow.
Hahaha before even reading the next bit my reaction was pretty much exactly that of the interviewer. I really like the confidence this guy has, it looks like he's earned it looking at his recent ZvZ history.
Urgh, Kal please don't choke against great... And if you do win and face off against Hydra in the Ro4, I'll have to cheer for you over Hydra for the sake of you being the only Protoss left. Sorry Hydra, I like you, but I love my probes over drones.
On January 29 2011 14:09 Spica wrote: Urgh, Kal please don't choke against great... And if you do win and face off against Hydra in the Ro4, I'll have to cheer for you over Hydra for the sake of you being the only Protoss left. Sorry Hydra, I like you, but I love my probes over drones.
On January 29 2011 14:09 Spica wrote: Urgh, Kal please don't choke against great... And if you do win and face off against Hydra in the Ro4, I'll have to cheer for you over Hydra for the sake of you being the only Protoss left. Sorry Hydra, I like you, but I love my probes over drones.
Winner of this game plays Zero.
Hydra plays dong.
Oh okay thanks for clearing that up, I can cheer for Hydra now! :D
that was pretty funny - most of the time protoss sees that many scourge and is like shitshit and flees. kal was just like "ok", ate them all, and then won
I feel bad for Kal. The odds really are stacked against him. If he makes it through the Ro8, he has to face Zero and then if he somehow makes it through that, he (potentially) has to face Jaedong.
great actually had enough scourge to take out kals sairs that first time imo, but some of the scourge flew past the sairs a little too far. if he microd that better i think he could have managed to complete the trade.
kal is doing a good job with map contro, but i'd like to see him take a third soon. great doesn't really have anything to prevent it; he is just starting to make hydras.
kal must have a good 10 or so sairs now, moving in to greats natural for an attack.
it's around this time that kal will whip a speed shuttle with temps out of no where and storm all greats drones, but i'm not seeing it yet. maybe he's a little scared of the possible mutascourge.
kal sets up his 3rd at 9 o clock, great on 4 bases (for a while now)
I'm surprised Kal didn't try to take a 3rd earlier. With all that sunken turtling Great wasn't in any position to push, so it was just a matter of defending vs the mutas.
On January 29 2011 14:50 Murdoink wrote: lol who voted no to recommend game 3 wtf
To be fair, the game went on for a lot longer than it should've. It's recommended if you want to see some excellent PvZ play but it wasn't particularly exciting.
On January 29 2011 14:50 Murdoink wrote: lol who voted no to recommend game 3 wtf
I did, I thought Great's play did not warrant a recommandation, it almost made me sad (maybe because I'm zerg and I hate corsairs ?^^). The game was ok though, had there been a "watch if you have time option", I would have chosen it.
Kal looking a bit stressed, maybe he's nervous about losing this and then having a hard time on the last map? It's Benzene though, the recent Zerg graveyard.
On January 29 2011 15:03 kuroshiroi wrote: Kal looking a bit stressed, maybe he's nervous about losing this and then having a hard time on the last map? It's Benzene though, the recent Zerg graveyard.
Anyway, corsair harassing overlords.
its only a Zerg graveyard because of how retarded the Zergs were playing on that map (mostly)
oh god Great going Mutas again.. this will not end well -_-
On January 29 2011 15:03 kuroshiroi wrote: Kal looking a bit stressed, maybe he's nervous about losing this and then having a hard time on the last map? It's Benzene though, the recent Zerg graveyard.
On January 29 2011 15:03 kuroshiroi wrote: Kal looking a bit stressed, maybe he's nervous about losing this and then having a hard time on the last map? It's Benzene though, the recent Zerg graveyard.
I know, I'm talking about him possibly being more nervous about losing this than he should be. I.e. "if he loses this, he'll have to play on Benzene" kind of nervous.
Great looking decent, deflects that attack with relative ease.
Ok, I know what happened there : Kal was so used to zergs not making units he attacked that 3rd mechanically, but hey, guess what, making units helps defending, so it lost him the game. Great metagaming.
Replay shows that a force of hydras from Great came behind Kal's main army and managed to kill a HT. Also having a hydra army behind him basically committed Kal to the attack, which probably shouldn't have happened anyway.
5th hatch in nat for great. mutas shoot zealots a few times but back off. archon is out.
evo is up in the 3rd.
kal upgrading +1 air attack? spore going up in great's 3rd. he morphs a ton of ovies there lol.
craploads of scourge for great--have to keep the sairs from reaching critical mass! the archon heroically saves the sairs though! OOPS AWAY FROM ARCHON but the scourge splitting is poor :/
kal losing goons straight out of the gateway from mutas. lots of hydra and lurker hatching. kal's gonna need some good storms and positioning to defend when great attacks
kal units his army with 6 ht, his goons get plagued but the storm is giving him a huge edge not gonna get the base because of lurkers under swarm but he gets an evo chamber
Great is playing great, now I understand why he put so many drones on the top expo, he wanted to mine out the most vulnerable expansion as fast as possible. Losing that one, like he almost did just now, wouldn't actually have hurt his eco too much.
kall expanding to 11 zealots plagued this is a pretty good map in terms of producing epic pvz (i'm thinking horang2 vs princess) kal mined out of his 3rd kal attacking top left will great hold!?!?!?
ahahahaha 11.5 completely undefended but great doesn't know it's there until his own drone tries to build a hatchery on top of a nexus cracklings take it down
Kal seems to really hate the top left and bottom right bases. He runs all his armies up to try to destroy the top left, and won't dare expand to bottom right.
Well at least Zero vs Great looks like the series may take some time, seeing as Zero's figured out how to drag every ZvZ to late game, and Great's figured out how to play ZvZ late game (and thus is perfectly fine with it dragging to late game).
Or we'll get semis and finals that have under an hour of total game time >.>
On January 29 2011 15:49 Faranth wrote: So the rest of the MSL has a near-guaranteed game-time of less than 3 hours, assuming every game goes to a fifth set and lasts ~12 minutes.
I don't mind ZvZ, but only in moderation.
Ah well.
he, your hopes are too high, what if jaedong 3-0 ezpz, everything will be over in less than 40min, LOL
I definitely do not want to see Zero advance any further. His rational play is so boring. He is like a weaker and less exciting version of Flash playing zerg.
On January 29 2011 15:52 usopsama wrote: I definitely do not want to see Zero advance any further. His rational play is so boring. He is like a weaker and less exciting version of Flash playing zerg.
I absolutely disagree with you, Zero is one of the most entertaining zerg players of all.
On January 29 2011 15:52 usopsama wrote: I definitely do not want to see Zero advance any further. His rational play is so boring. He is like a weaker and less exciting version of Flash playing zerg.
i guess Zero using queens is super boring Flash turtling a lot of his games is not boring at all
On January 29 2011 15:52 usopsama wrote: I definitely do not want to see Zero advance any further. His rational play is so boring. He is like a weaker and less exciting version of Flash playing zerg.
I absolutely disagree with you, Zero is one of the most entertaining zerg players of all.
Zero is THE most entertaining player of modern SC.
On January 29 2011 15:52 usopsama wrote: I definitely do not want to see Zero advance any further. His rational play is so boring. He is like a weaker and less exciting version of Flash playing zerg.
You have to be trolling, because ZerO is easily the most entertaining zerg player sc1 has ever seen.
On January 29 2011 15:52 usopsama wrote: I definitely do not want to see Zero advance any further. His rational play is so boring. He is like a weaker and less exciting version of Flash playing zerg.
Flash is exciting?
Anyway, would have been better if Hydra were replaced with Soulkey, then we'd have the 4 most entertaining ZvZ players. Calm down Hite fans, Hydra earned it, I'm just dreaming.
My feeling is actually that Hydra might win this MSL o_O
I'm really sick of all the people whining about the ZvZ finals. The finals is still a Bo5 just like this was. There's more on the line for the players, but there's nothing to suggest the level of play is necessarily higher, it's not like Kal vs zerg a week or two from now would be much different to what we saw today.
So what, you'd really rather see the lesser player advance just because you don't care for one matchup? You'd change who you are rooting for just because of this?
On January 29 2011 16:15 salito wrote: Dragging yourself to a university to watch a 40 minute bo5 ZvZ isn't ideal. It simply doesn't live up to the hype a finals should have.
Imo, the last 3 SL finals (Bigfile MSL, Hana Bank MSL, KAs2) didn't live up to the hype at all, even though they had the two best players -_-
On January 29 2011 16:17 prototype. wrote: wow at these comments saying zero is an entertaining zerg player
so he used queens in, i dunno, 5% of his games... MOST ENTERTAINING PLAYER AM I RIGHT?
The guy loves his queens, but that is not the main reason he is considered among the most entertaining. I think what people like about him is his playstyle in general, he's a creative guy c'mon it ain't just the heavy queen usage. Here's something to remind you how cool he is:
On January 29 2011 16:17 prototype. wrote: wow at these comments saying zero is an entertaining zerg player
so he used queens in, i dunno, 5% of his games... MOST ENTERTAINING PLAYER AM I RIGHT?
The guy loves his queens, but that is not the main reason he is considered among the most entertaining. I think what people like about him is his playstyle in general, he's a creative guy c'mon it ain't just the heavy queen usage. Here's something to remind you how cool he is:
Zero's ZvZ is far less entertaining than his ZvT/P. It's by far his weakest match-up. Luckily Great likes to go Hive tech in ZvZ so it could be an entertaining series. If it was Zero v Hydra, it would be one-sided.
On January 29 2011 16:17 prototype. wrote: wow at these comments saying zero is an entertaining zerg player
so he used queens in, i dunno, 5% of his games... MOST ENTERTAINING PLAYER AM I RIGHT?
The guy loves his queens, but that is not the main reason he is considered among the most entertaining. I think what people like about him is his playstyle in general, he's a creative guy c'mon it ain't just the heavy queen usage. Here's something to remind you how cool he is:
Zero's ZvZ is far less entertaining than his ZvT/P. It's by far his weakest match-up. Luckily Great likes to go Hive tech in ZvZ so it could be an entertaining series. If it was Zero v Hydra, it would be one-sided.
Woongjin zergs like to force hivetech vs great and then lose XD
On January 29 2011 16:17 prototype. wrote: wow at these comments saying zero is an entertaining zerg player
so he used queens in, i dunno, 5% of his games... MOST ENTERTAINING PLAYER AM I RIGHT?
The guy loves his queens, but that is not the main reason he is considered among the most entertaining. I think what people like about him is his playstyle in general, he's a creative guy c'mon it ain't just the heavy queen usage. Here's something to remind you how cool he is:
Zero's ZvZ is far less entertaining than his ZvT/P. It's by far his weakest match-up. Luckily Great likes to go Hive tech in ZvZ so it could be an entertaining series. If it was Zero v Hydra, it would be one-sided.
ZerO likes his Hive tech ZvZ as well as, and likes to win with it. See ZerO vs Hoejja during r1 of pl or ZerO vs Hyun during stx masters.
also I agree with lone_hydra, if ZerO isn't entertaining I don't know who is. There are obviously better zergs (Jaedong, you might could argue Hydra and maybe Calm), but while he isn't consistently strong, he can be relied on more often than any other zerg for an innovative creative play style that works. Great probably has a greater grasp of hive tech ZvZ than him, but who knows maybe ZerO will/has studied their replays and will switch up his attack at hive tech ZvZ.
Zero is friggin entertaining and he sometimes plays really intelligently and puts up some impressive games. I like watching this guy play.
But yeah zvz semis and finals...meh. Hydra somehow learned to play pretty nice ZvZ within the last month or so, he might pull it off vs JD. Then there's a chance of hive tech play in the other semi.
poor poor kal. he played so well but once again he loses a game to a zerg due to over-agression :\
at least the series was really fun to watch. I just wish kal made more shuttles though. seeing kal play a PvZ without using shuttles just doesn't sit right with me at all.
On January 29 2011 15:50 jalstar wrote: ZerO or great will be an MSL finalist.
nothing wrong with that IMHO... if effing Kwanro can be a MSL finalist and Calm a MSL champion certainly these one of these two deserve a finals slot... heck Modesty is going to be a seed next OSL!!!
if you were going to have a ZvZ semis this is the best you could hope for... a true disaster would be scrubs like HoGiL or Modesty in these semis....
On January 29 2011 15:50 jalstar wrote: ZerO or great will be an MSL finalist.
nothing wrong with that IMHO... if effing Kwanro can be a MSL finalist and Calm a MSL champion certainly these one of these two deserve a finals slot... heck Modesty is going to be a seed next OSL!!!
if you were going to have a ZvZ semis this is the best you could hope for... a true disaster would be scrubs like HoGiL or Modesty in these semis....
Calling Modesty a scrub at ZvZ makes you look like you don't know what you are talking about.
EPT![[image loading]](http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/5526/pdpoparticlebannernewco.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/noScS.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/76.jpg)
vs ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/610.jpg)
Calm « Dante's Peak » ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/58.jpg)
vs ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/84.jpg)
Kal![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/LQ8ay.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/laqzI)
![[image loading]](http://i56.tinypic.com/34gkjuh.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/RDxwi.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/CA2Kh.png)
Flash didn't save you just so you could get knocked out of the MSL in the quarterfinals 
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/Rm4uk.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/omWgW.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/zUxGN.jpg)
