Stars 4-2 Oz Set 1: Perfectman <Aztec> Zero Set 2: Lomo <Circuit Breaker> Crazy-Hydra Set 3: Jaedong <Icarus> Soulkey Set 4: Hiya <Fortress> Free Set 5: Anytime <Bloody Ridge> Flying Set 6: Killer <Empire of the Sun> Really
I really want to see free vs. killer. After the way Sea ran circles around free two days ago, his abilities have been put to question, terrible performance.
I still think free will win against anybody except JD on Oz but...
I'll do what I can then lol. Lots of Mutas out, not enough marines and turrets. Kills a few turrets and gets half of the academy. looking good, killing lots of turrets and has his third hatch up.
This is kind of the definition of an advantage here. Killer keeping him inside his base, Center finally getting a decent MM force out but can't move out because of Killers pure Muta force. Soooooo many mutas killing all the turrets and a bunch of marines at his nat....not doing too much damage otherwise, though.
I speak WAAAY too soon, kills ALL The marines, a barracks, and the science facility. I think it's gg here soon.
^ I don't think it is, but it's around 2 minutes behind. And you don't blame anyone; you get on your knees and thank them from the bottom of your heart for the stream<3
Internet had a brain fart. Soulkey got a fast lair, Jaedong is busting his nat with Zerglings at the moemnt. Soulkey loses the hatch, but his spire is up.
EDIT: GGs after the Hatchery goes down. I don't even know if Jaedong had a Lair yet. Interesting rape.
Woah need more spoilers at topic Tried to click results but wasn't there so pressed full lineup and then predictions and finaly noticed there is extra results :D
Clearly one result spoiler without extra things would be good.
CH being super safe, spire is almost down, creepy colony going up with an in base hatch. Princess knocking on his front door with ALOT of zerglings, but sunken is up and he can't do anything. Spire is up, Princess lair just finished.
Princess kills a few drones by sacing his zerglings, delays the mutas long enough for Princess to get spores up. Spire is done, mutas on the way for Princess. I lied, scourge.
Princess now has a decent amount of mutas, pushes out, but zerglings come and ALMOST breaks the front spore colony. Princess' two gas is showing, and his muta count is climbing really fast. Catches a bunch of rallied mutas going to his base, CH losing drones, goes in a last ditch effort with slow zerglings to break his base, but Princess has tons of mutas and a bunch of zerglings pop out, and I think I missed it but CH has no mutas left. PRINNNNNNNNNCEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSS
On December 01 2010 13:55 fofa2000 wrote: acess denied
Sorry D:... I have a 50 viewer limit. Just figured a few people were having trouble watching so I was gonna help out a few. I'm suprised we have the MBC stream which is harder to get and not OGN streamers.
Had a good feeling about Oz after seeing them in R1. They didn't get wins many, but they put up some very good fights. Hopefully they've finally managed to get all the pieces in place.
Really suspects something, but is stuck in his base. SCV gets out to scout! May or may not have seen the robo before a zealot ends his miserable life. Really drops an ebay anyway.
I could restream with no viewer cap, but my OGN source is lagging like hell and I can't restream the current channels because there is not enough space.
On December 01 2010 14:11 quasar wrote: I could restream with no viewer cap, but my OGN source is lagging like hell and I can't restream the current channels because there is not enough space.
a few lurkers morphing for zero but I don't think he'll need them mass hydra/muta attacking sky's choke - he even morphs 3 lurkers to bloke the choke and sky concedes
Stream seems to be ok now, with no sound issues or anything like that. No viewer cap. Thanks to Skillz_Man for streaming this as I am restreaming his stream . http://www.livestream.com/onemorevidya
finally hiya deciding to move out - but arbiter sneaks forwards and freezes 7 tanks in one stasis another 5 tanks frozen too - free moves in and picks off a few tanks at the front, freezes another 2 tanks, storms 2, and backs off
free merely holding hiya back with a couple goons and many templar - hiya moves up and sieges - storms on clumped tanks taking out quite a few justa few zealots also taking tanks with them
of course hiya's massive army survives against free's microforce, but free has like 20 gateways...if they produced units
Not sure why Free tried to attack there, half his army was out of place, and it seemed like his food count was actually really low... He's on like 6? mining bases? wtf?
tanks just barreling into his nat 4 carriers attacking the tanks shelling his 3rd just mass unsieged tanks moving into free's main - which has zero units despite having like 10 gateways?
the ghosts overextend themselves and are getting picked off by goons!
4 carriers picking off hiya's force shelling free's main but free will probalby lose his main anyways
wtf - were free's gateways just for show? a storm whittles down some of the tanks in his main, carriers micro'ing against 2 goliaths - ghost getting close! lockedown on a carrier! the other 4 retreat
hiya trying to bring goliaths back to save his 3rd ghosts heading the long way around but an observer sees them and free already pulling back free's 1.5 now fully operational, 2 tanks shelling 8 but carriers will end them
arbiter heading across the top of the map - recalls hiya's island, the ghost wasn't ready! despite mines there too the recall is successful - hiya will be in deep shit economically very soon
finally free looks like he's actually producing units
hiya with a decent sized army moves to shell free's base at 4 free with a lot of zealots at 4.5 though, and arbiter waiting but no goons! - well one goon
ghosts lock down all 4 carriers at 10 though, so hiya could resume mining there all the frozen carriers destroyed - free freeezes the back tanks outside 5 and moves forwards with zealots - but the zealots evaporate to mass goliaths
hiya now takes the opportunity to move in with his 6 unfrozen tanks
hiya taking down a few gateways at 4.5 it really doesn't matter though if he can't get his own economy running he moves in closer to 4.5, now shelling the stargate as well
mass of zealots finally clearing out the goliath drop at 1
free's unit mass just wandering around the map ahh free still controls 12 with a dribbling of units another 2 goons locked down before they can kill a ghost
wow this match is so...ugh
free finally with a relatively large army chasing hiya's remaining metal hiya probably will have to concede after this
Hiya finally gg's. Free is so bad, with that kind of macro advantage and he decides to go carriers? Then he follows through by losing his main twice and keeps sending small amounts of units to attack Hiya, which then all die.
Better luck next time, Hiya. Keep practicing those ghosts, that's why we like you
On December 01 2010 15:30 yoonyoon wrote: I hate myself for having no faith in OZ and voting for Woongjin
I agree w/ you there man... but I don't know I think we expected too much from SK,free, Zer0, Really, combo vs JD, Anytime, HiyA, Killer combo (Princess can be included too now)
On December 01 2010 15:30 yoonyoon wrote: I hate myself for having no faith in OZ and voting for Woongjin
I agree w/ you there man... but I don't know I think we expected too much from SK,free, Zer0, Really, combo vs JD, Anytime, HiyA, Killer combo (Princess can be included too now)
Not a man.
I've pretty much given up on liquibet anyways, since I'm at like.. 563rd place.
On December 01 2010 15:35 L_Master wrote: Wow WTF woongjin? There better be a damn good reason for sending Piano out. I know JD's mad good ZvZ, but still, Piano? wth?
YEAH I KNOW RIGHT?!
Btw I still actually remember you from that lucid dream thread haha... I have a tendency to possess a photographic memory for the weirdest things
Ever notice we never, ever, ever get Jaedong vs free anymore?
Look, I understand that JD's worst MU is ZvT, but Piano blows, he's not even half the player MVP was... Piano have had better prepared the perfect build for this...
On December 01 2010 15:39 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Ever notice we never, ever, ever get Jaedong vs free anymore?
Look, I understand that JD's worst MU is ZvT, but Piano blows, he's not even half the player MVP was... Piano have had better prepared the perfect build for this...
I remember Ganzi once beating Jaedong on Neo-Medusa with a firebat timing...
On December 01 2010 15:39 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Ever notice we never, ever, ever get Jaedong vs free anymore?
Look, I understand that JD's worst MU is ZvT, but Piano blows, he's not even half the player MVP was... Piano have had better prepared the perfect build for this...
I remember Ganzi once beating Jaedong on Neo-Medusa with a firebat timing...
I remember Ganzi beating Jaedong with fake-mech in an MST match, but he lost in the final group match on Destination or something. But Ganzi is gone too
While Flash may be a strategic master, the like's of which will probably never again be seen in the Sport of Starcraft, there is not, nor has there ever been, a player with as much brutal and feral cunning as Lee Jaedong. The guy is just ferocious.
On December 01 2010 15:48 Kimaker wrote: While Flash may be a strategic master, the like's of which will probably never again be seen in the Sport of Starcraft, there is not, nor has there ever been, a player with as much brutal and feral cunning as Lee Jaedong. The guy is just ferocious.
On December 01 2010 15:50 Z3kk wrote: What was this crap...
All I could tell from the LR was that piano sucked some major (jae)dong.
Piano 14CCs > some super fast tech while turtling > jaedong makes lurkers > attacks > breaks pianos defense like nothing > piano hangs head in shame as he is embarrassed.
On December 01 2010 15:48 Dandy4 wrote: what was the star coach thinking....?
Probably the same thing the OZ coach was thinking back when he kept sending out Killer to get raped in ace.
I guess Piano's developed Bambi eyes as well.
LMAO, i miss Hwaseung House so much. Why doesn't someone start making more?
That said, i always love seeing Lurker breaks. Not only are they awesome by themselves, but its a welcome change from the standard muta harrass. JD level muta micro is great to watch, but i like some variety, glad it was the dong who delivered
May not have the best knowledge about Starcraft in general, but what's with the random Terran super fast tech into vessels with very little army games appearing nowdays?
Remember Skyhigh getting owned by ych[z-zone] or something doing some fast tech vessel build. And there was another game which happened in PL like that too, forgot which one it was though.
What's the purpose of going fast vessel? Irradiate Mutalisks? Get a huge number of them out before Defilers appear? Seems to always backfire though (at least in the 3 games so far).
On December 01 2010 15:50 matjlav wrote: Jaedong is just too good at decision making; he knew exactly when to go all-in.
All in? He was expanding while he was attacking; that was not all in, that was just Piano completely falling apart.
Jaedong humiliated Piano and I would not be surprised if it takes him a long time to recover.
Ya, I can't wait for the piano we all know and love to return to form...
Allow me to rephrase: Piano is done. I actually expect him to quit or go army after this.
I think you missed the sarcasm thar
Piano has won 2 out of the 3 TvZ this season, against Hyuk and action. If he had any ZvT confidence built up from that, it's gone for good. Then there's the fact that he has Zero and Soulkey to practice against and only practiced this map and JD still destroyed him.
I know he's a bad player but Stars clearly had some kind of snipe in mind here. But whatever.
On December 01 2010 15:50 matjlav wrote: Jaedong is just too good at decision making; he knew exactly when to go all-in.
All in? He was expanding while he was attacking; that was not all in, that was just Piano completely falling apart.
Jaedong humiliated Piano and I would not be surprised if it takes him a long time to recover.
Ya, I can't wait for the piano we all know and love to return to form...
Allow me to rephrase: Piano is done. I actually expect him to quit or go army after this.
I think you missed the sarcasm thar
Piano has won 2 out of the 3 TvZ this season, against Hyuk and action. If he had any ZvT confidence built up from that, it's gone for good. Then there's the fact that he has Zero and Soulkey to practice against and only practiced this map and JD still destroyed him.
I know he's a bad player but Stars clearly had some kind of snipe in mind here. But whatever.
I don't think he missed the verbal irony. ^^
They say in basketball, there's only three plays worth a damn no matter how much time you practice different offensive schemes.
1. Give the ball to you best passer and have your best cutter run a Pick n Roll with him and get everyone else the hell out of the way. 2. Give the ball to your biggest man in the post and get the hell out of the way. 3. Give the ball to your best player and get the hell out of the way.
And yet coaches bungle up last shots of the game all the time, overthinking things and have the 2nd best shooter shoot the shot as the 2nd best at PnR set some double backscreen with the biggest... bah idiots.
Kinda like Killer for Ace... Or PianO for Ace...
^^
Don't overthink things you moron coaches. Send your best player, pray to your Korean Gods, and get the hell outta there. You did your job.
On December 01 2010 15:57 lordmordor wrote: That said, i always love seeing Lurker breaks. Not only are they awesome by themselves, but its a welcome change from the standard muta harrass. JD level muta micro is great to watch, but i like some variety, glad it was the dong who delivered
Me too. I think muta is pretty much overplayed now. Often it does little to no damage. And lurker play is more straight up aggressive and also gives more opportunity to safely expand.
On December 01 2010 15:57 lordmordor wrote: That said, i always love seeing Lurker breaks. Not only are they awesome by themselves, but its a welcome change from the standard muta harrass. JD level muta micro is great to watch, but i like some variety, glad it was the dong who delivered
Me too. I think muta is pretty much overplayed now. Often it does little to no damage. And lurker play is more straight up aggressive and also gives more opportunity to safely expand.
Unless you're playing FlaSh...
Have you seen his MM vs LurkerLing micro?!?
Z: Lurkers unburrow, rush forward. T: Stim, attack for 1.5 seconds Z: Burrow, pick a direction for lings to amove from T: Run back just 1 hex away from splines Z: FML
Ok LOL, lets compare it not with average zerg then but with Jaedong lurkerling micro :D
BTW Yesterday, even Juni could play very aggressively with that style. And Flash didn't seem to make more than 1 somewhat serious mis-micro (and even this, could be qualified as Juni good micro more than Flash's bad one). And Juni is not Jaedong or even ZerO or Soulkey.
And FlaSh's micro is very good not only vs lurker but also vs muta. )))
On December 01 2010 18:41 Ryo wrote: I feel bad for Piano. He was put in a difficult position by a coach who should have known better.
And no, he's not going to quit or go to army. He is captain so obviously he has a part to play in the team but just not as a regular starter.
this is something i've wondered for ages: why aren't captains always the best players? piano is godawful, i'd put him in the bottom 5 terrans right now (maybe reality and suny are the only worse ones i can think of atm). same with canata for SKT (although he was replaced by hyuk?)
also, why would people even consider sending really for ace? really is pretty terrible as well. even though vT is JD's worst matchup, i would much rather send a good zerg. Even though it's jvz, zvz is an extremely volatile matchup.
The captain's job isn't to be a shining paragon of amazing play for the rest of the team to look at with awe. They're there to bring the team together, improve morale, and other such mini-coach jobs. Often the work/effort of being the team captain can put strain on some players more than others. Very rarely is the highest skilled person the best for the job.
KT's captain is Violet and not Flash for a reason. For Hite Entus it's Leta, which some people question since as one of the team's better players he should probably focus on playing more. His personality probably makes him a good candidate though (and may also have been chosen to help the team merger go smoother).
In any case, it's good to see Oz winning. Was hoping they could get it before Ace match to show some strength, but I guess I'll just take the double fantasy league points from JD winning twice. XD
Killer gets less credit than he deserves. His record in PL is actually good.
On the other hand, this is what Woongjin gets for doing crazy shit like that. Think of it this way, Jaedong is used to brushing sides with the best Starcraft player (Flash) and can give him a run for his money. So you send a scrub Terran to face him in ace. Good? No.
On December 01 2010 22:18 Emperor_Earth wrote: @ Quasar
That's the problem.
Lurkers are more a game decision/timing thing rather than a micro thing.
Mutas have better ROI at the highest levels of play.
But mutas get useless at certain stages of the game. Lurkers don't. When Z gets swarm, lurkers becme even stronger. And they can potentially do insane dps. And there "micro" is probably wrong word. It's more like "army positioning". With proper positioning lurkers can be too hard to pick out even with good micro.
Maybe 4 hatch 2 base lurkerling play (as Juni did yesterday) for standard? Gogogo Jaedong, I believe you can develop this into something tasty
Maybe PianO was sent to truly "snipe" JD in all senses - as a T on T favored map and that he had a specific "build order snipe" too... Regardless that it was a fail, but maybe it was that way.
Really is strange T to have TvZ weakest matchup and TvP best. =\ But something tells me that he'd be less fail.
Anyways i'm happy to see finally 2 wins in a row for Oz.
Honestly, I think that the truly best decision for ace would be Free. Yes, he anyways would have <50% chance to win (and who except Flash has more vs JD lol). But at least he's a consistent protoss player, who strangely is good in all matchups including PvZ.
This is the same kind of WTF that i had when we saw Modesty vs Jaedong (i was like WTF??? Why not simply send the overall best player who is obviously Kal?)
On December 01 2010 18:41 Ryo wrote: I feel bad for Piano. He was put in a difficult position by a coach who should have known better.
And no, he's not going to quit or go to army. He is captain so obviously he has a part to play in the team but just not as a regular starter.
this is something i've wondered for ages: why aren't captains always the best players? piano is godawful, i'd put him in the bottom 5 terrans right now (maybe reality and suny are the only worse ones i can think of atm). same with canata for SKT (although he was replaced by hyuk?)
also, why would people even consider sending really for ace? really is pretty terrible as well. even though vT is JD's worst matchup, i would much rather send a good zerg. Even though it's jvz, zvz is an extremely volatile matchup.
Hyuk is good it just so happens he seem to always hyuk himself
On December 01 2010 18:41 Ryo wrote: I feel bad for Piano. He was put in a difficult position by a coach who should have known better.
And no, he's not going to quit or go to army. He is captain so obviously he has a part to play in the team but just not as a regular starter.
this is something i've wondered for ages: why aren't captains always the best players? piano is godawful, i'd put him in the bottom 5 terrans right now (maybe reality and suny are the only worse ones i can think of atm). same with canata for SKT (although he was replaced by hyuk?)
also, why would people even consider sending really for ace? really is pretty terrible as well. even though vT is JD's worst matchup, i would much rather send a good zerg. Even though it's jvz, zvz is an extremely volatile matchup.
There are far worse Terrans in the proleague, Piano has at least won a couple games this season.
Captain's job, pretty much what Vortok said. You also have to be somewhat popular among the players and of a certain level of seniority/experience. Introverted/quiet personalities wouldn't make good captains. One of the SKT zergs explained in a recent interview that Hyuk spent a lot of time helping him with his muta control. Things like that. It's a rather time consuming job. Time that could otherwise be spent practicing yourself.
I'm not responsible for any bad stuff that goes into your computer from downloading this, but I always download from this guy <333 and I'm watching the second set, so it seems fine to me.
Oh, and I think you have to download a codec to watch this. I use GomPlayer =3 Don't ask me if it doesn't work; I'm useless with computers.
And some of the games are a little.. unstable? Like, the sound/video kind of pauses for like 0.01 seconds a lot in some of the games.
Good to see oz winning again, the first round was really painfull to watch. Now with Anytime (even tho he didn't win today) oz is/will be much stronger than round 1. I think Anytime is really important for team just for the mood and as a captain.
I'm really looking forward to the rest of this round now.
I think Anytime will be regularly playing anyway, as he is clearly the best Protoss on the lineup. Experience > anything else, given the fact that none other of Oz P's is particularly good.
Are you serious? What the hell was the Stars coach thinking? You claw your way back from 0-3 to bring it to ace and you send one of the worst players on your team against what is sure to be Jaedong?
On December 01 2010 16:46 kuroshiroi wrote:Piano has won 2 out of the 3 TvZ this season, against Hyuk and action. If he had any ZvT confidence built up from that, it's gone for good. Then there's the fact that he has Zero and Soulkey to practice against and only practiced this map and JD still destroyed him.
I know he's a bad player but Stars clearly had some kind of snipe in mind here. But whatever.
I agree that Piano was probably prepping for that very moment and despite probably knowing the opponent and the map, he just choked under the pressure.
Nothing to me seems more daunting than being a sniper or training to snipe someone. Not only is it critical that you perform at that exact moment, success says you can only do this much. When I watch someone like Modesty play, it pains me to see him lose in a situation he supposed to be a specialist for.
When does fast vessel ever work? Especially against a player like Jaedong who is experienced at splitting very quickly. Plus despite being cross position against a 3hatch before pool build it still was only just out in time for 1 irradiate. Also why show vultures as well, trying to force different hydra tech? Even if let's assume JD did go muta's, he would have just retreated and used as the usual stalling tactic for the huge distance between bases. But the sacrifice in getting the tech meant that pushing against a weakened muta force isn't going to work anyway? I really just don't understand this build.
On December 02 2010 10:12 infinity2k9 wrote: When does fast vessel ever work? Especially against a player like Jaedong who is experienced at splitting very quickly. Plus despite being cross position against a 3hatch before pool build it still was only just out in time for 1 irradiate. Also why show vultures as well, trying to force different hydra tech? Even if let's assume JD did go muta's, he would have just retreated and used as the usual stalling tactic for the huge distance between bases. But the sacrifice in getting the tech meant that pushing against a weakened muta force isn't going to work anyway? I really just don't understand this build.
However, Piano didn't get the all important scouting wraith which I assume means that he didn't want to tip off JD into what he was doing and wanted him to think it was bio.
The speed vults were assuming that JD would have skimped on sunks at nat as no mnm had moved out yet and they can do ridiculous damage before mutas hatch. (see Action vs Classic on Grand Line for best example of this.
Piano just turned the game into a complete 50/50 as he assumed JD would go muta. (He didn't even have acad finished when lurkers were up in his nat and JD's +1 cara was just about finished which meant ez win)
Turn went for a fast vessel during his vZ matches in round one, and it seemed to work pretty well despite his sloppy execution, but he wasn't playing against jaedong.
wait, the ace match result and last 10 pages of this thread are all actually trolling, right? stars didn't seriously send out possibly their fourth best terran against jaedong, right? guys?
OZ can still play a decent season. jd won't stop winning, Killer is about to get his shit together. PerfectMan has started to Win games. (lol) HiyA will eventually stop slumping. and finally there are players like sHy - it should be possible for OZ to make the playoffs.
On December 01 2010 22:18 Emperor_Earth wrote: @ Quasar
That's the problem.
Lurkers are more a game decision/timing thing rather than a micro thing.
Mutas have better ROI at the highest levels of play.
But mutas get useless at certain stages of the game. Lurkers don't. When Z gets swarm, lurkers becme even stronger. And they can potentially do insane dps. And there "micro" is probably wrong word. It's more like "army positioning". With proper positioning lurkers can be too hard to pick out even with good micro.
Maybe 4 hatch 2 base lurkerling play (as Juni did yesterday) for standard? Gogogo Jaedong, I believe you can develop this into something tasty
Juni's build is never going to be standard because it was an all-in build. Jaedong's was really similar (although the den was late in order to fake mutas) right up until Juni built the fourth hatch in-base. The differences emerged then with Juni pumping all of his resources purely into lurkerling, making tons of lurks and not teching or anything. At this point Juni pretty much had to knock out Flash with that army at that timing or he would lose.
Jaedong took his third with his fourth hatch and didn't go into pure unit production and he didn't make as many lurks as Juni did at the lurker timing.
EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/5skeB.png)
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vs ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/6.jpg)
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Hwaseung OZ vs ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/icons/uniforms/6.png){kind=icon}
Woongjin Stars![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/558.jpg)
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Killer <Aztec> 
Center![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/211.jpg)
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Anytime <Fortress> ![[image loading]](http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5248/5221908153_d3493c74e8_m.jpg)
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