lol @ predictions. although that would make my fantasy team very happy. aw shit JD and Movie are both on my team >< 3 points between them unless this goes to ace.
Wow sick games, Jaedong vs Movie always produces good games and Iris will finally get some revenge for the proleague semi finals
Interesting predictions, though I dont see movie beating Jaedong twice (once is certainly possible though) Effort vs Hiya should be a onesided rape, but it will be nice to watch cause since hes just so damn good. With Killer vs Hydra he is AGAIN favourite to win and continue his winning streak, the guy just doesnt seem to get very hard enemies anymore, but to me its only a matter of time until hydra starts winning some more games and starts getting really really good, might as well start tonight
I will never understand why protoss don't expect this on HBR. FFS, build a pylon up there or something. Zerg do this shit all the time and it's almost an instant loss so it's worth a single pylon investment or a better positioned 2nd cannon.
I suppose this is the ragedongs revenge for what happened to him last night. The fact remains JD is the best ZvP in the world and he shows it again.
On December 26 2009 13:18 FireGuyX wrote: damn HBR is so imba for Zergs.
Look on JDs stats on that map and say that again
I was talking about ZvP on HBR. Protoss are always at a disadvantage against zergs on HBR. They either have the right built to counter the zergs or they don't. And if they don't, it's game over for them.
On December 26 2009 13:19 ProbeSaturation wrote: jaedong lol too scared to play movie straight up
Movie has done all-in timing attacks several times vs Jaedong that sacrifice the ability to defend vs early all-ins such as we just saw. It's valid to say about either player.
What makes this even funnier is that Shine did this just last night, less than an hour after movie played a game. I guess Movie didn't watch?
If Movie had scouted it, all he'd have to do is place a zealot on the ramp and add a second cannon. He would've been ahead of Jaedong economy wise, but Movie failed to prepare.
On December 26 2009 13:21 QuakerOats wrote: Wow, Jaedong is such a strategical genius! That build was very well planned and executed.
I completely agree, but a brilliant tactic! I feel that Movie's lack of a 2nd cannon really hurt him. Referencing Backho v. Hoejja, he has a placement that counters these runbys really well.
I don't know but CJ seemed rather pissed at Movie right now. I would be too and I have not felt this pissed at a player for a long time. Movie is in the Ro4 of the OSL and he seriously did not expect this to happen.
Every time I watch PvZ, I always get the feeling that protoss players don't have any game sense whatsoever. They always seem to rely heavily on the sheer brute force protoss units tend to have (no, not saying protoss imba here.) and some, such as Movie, use their better mechanics to conquer their foe.
On December 26 2009 13:23 Pokeball wrote: I don't know but CJ seemed rather pissed at Movie right now. I would be too and I have not felt this pissed at a player for a long time. Movie is in the Ro4 of the OSL and he seriously did not expect this to happen.
Every time I watch PvZ, I always get the feeling that protoss players don't have any game sense whatsoever. They always seem to rely heavily on the sheer brute force protoss units tend to have (no, not saying protoss imba here.) and some, such as Movie, use their better mechanics to conquer their foe.
Movie is known for having a very low APM by pro standards (around 270). If anything he doesn't win by mechanics but by using his brain to make good decisions - in this game his brain was clearly not serving him at 100% and it showed.
Jaedong lacked any practice time for this match because of the OSL match vs. Flash, so he probably decided this build already. That, or because he denied Movie's scouting well (or Movie just scouted really really badly, your choice) he went for an all-in.
Honestly, at that point, Jaedong could've just went for a Hydra bust and Movie would've had no idea about it.
On December 26 2009 13:20 TheNessman wrote: this LR thread is the most confusing and filled with hate ever. I am really confused. but whatever lol
May I refer you to the 3000 posts on the OSL Ro8?
==
What exactly is the timing at which lings hit get through the mins? Can the toss scout it by counting drones at the Z main (noticing the 1 missing drone that went mining?)
On December 26 2009 13:20 TheNessman wrote: this LR thread is the most confusing and filled with hate ever. I am really confused. but whatever lol
May I refer you to the 3000 posts on the OSL Ro8?
==
What exactly is the timing at which lings hit get through the mins? Can the toss scout it by counting drones at the Z main (noticing the 1 missing drone that went mining?)
Or just place a pylon near the minerals to check for drones mining.
Jaedong is one of the most honest, straight up, legitimate players I know.
He always plays straight up, and never does anything cheesy and cheap like that newbie Flash.
I feel so cheated. Jaedong deserved to win that RO8 the other day, and seeing him win in a drawn out macro game like this against Movie proves to me just what an honorable, legit player he is.
Flash denied us a good series. Jaedong did not disappoint his fans and won against Movie using an innovative build that is not at all cheesy.
On December 26 2009 13:32 Kyo Yuy wrote: Jaedong is one of the most honest, straight up, legitimate players I know.
He always plays straight up, and never does anything cheesy and cheap like that newbie Flash.
I feel so cheated. Jaedong deserved to win that RO8 the other day, and seeing him win in a drawn out macro game like this against Movie proves to me just what an honorable, legit player he is.
Flash denied us a good series. Jaedong did not disappoint his fans and won against Movie using an innovative build that is not at all cheesy.
jeez we got it, lots of sarcasm bla bla bla get over it and enjoy the other games people
On December 26 2009 13:23 Pokeball wrote: I don't know but CJ seemed rather pissed at Movie right now. I would be too and I have not felt this pissed at a player for a long time. Movie is in the Ro4 of the OSL and he seriously did not expect this to happen.
Every time I watch PvZ, I always get the feeling that protoss players don't have any game sense whatsoever. They always seem to rely heavily on the sheer brute force protoss units tend to have (no, not saying protoss imba here.) and some, such as Movie, use their better mechanics to conquer their foe.
Movie is known for having a very low APM by pro standards (around 270). If anything he doesn't win by mechanics but by using his brain to make good decisions - in this game his brain was clearly not serving him at 100% and it showed.
APM doesn't mean you have bad mechanics. By.Hero has insane APM yet he's completely mediocre at everything even mutalisk micro. Flash has quite low APM yet you can probably say that he has the best TvZ micro of the current terrans (his multitasking is still a bit ehhhhh). Its how you use that APM that matters.
I can't say for sure but I've always felt he had good unit control as a whole, especially his zealot control.
On December 26 2009 13:32 Kyo Yuy wrote: Jaedong is one of the most honest, straight up, legitimate players I know.
He always plays straight up, and never does anything cheesy and cheap like that newbie Flash.
I feel so cheated. Jaedong deserved to win that RO8 the other day, and seeing him win in a drawn out macro game like this against Movie proves to me just what an honorable, legit player he is.
Flash denied us a good series. Jaedong did not disappoint his fans and won against Movie using an innovative build that is not at all cheesy.
jeez we got it, lots of sarcasm bla bla bla get over it and enjoy the other games people
On December 26 2009 13:32 Kyo Yuy wrote: Jaedong is one of the most honest, straight up, legitimate players I know.
He always plays straight up, and never does anything cheesy and cheap like that newbie Flash.
I feel so cheated. Jaedong deserved to win that RO8 the other day, and seeing him win in a drawn out macro game like this against Movie proves to me just what an honorable, legit player he is.
Flash denied us a good series. Jaedong did not disappoint his fans and won against Movie using an innovative build that is not at all cheesy.
jeez we got it, lots of sarcasm bla bla bla get over it and enjoy the other games people
I thought it was pretty funny.
i thought he was being serious for a second XD. hard to tell sometimes. LOL IRIS EPIC FAIL DROP
On December 26 2009 13:23 Pokeball wrote: I don't know but CJ seemed rather pissed at Movie right now. I would be too and I have not felt this pissed at a player for a long time. Movie is in the Ro4 of the OSL and he seriously did not expect this to happen.
Every time I watch PvZ, I always get the feeling that protoss players don't have any game sense whatsoever. They always seem to rely heavily on the sheer brute force protoss units tend to have (no, not saying protoss imba here.) and some, such as Movie, use their better mechanics to conquer their foe.
Movie is known for having a very low APM by pro standards (around 270). If anything he doesn't win by mechanics but by using his brain to make good decisions - in this game his brain was clearly not serving him at 100% and it showed.
APM doesn't mean you have bad mechanics. By.Hero has insane APM yet he's completely mediocre at everything even mutalisk micro. Flash has quite low APM yet you can probably say that he has the best TvZ micro of the current terrans (his multitasking is still a bit ehhhhh). Its how you use that APM that matters.
I can't say for sure but I've always felt he had good unit control as a whole, especially his zealot control.
flash isnt low apm, hes mid 300's usually and has one of the highest eapms in all of progaming
Vultures taking out tons of Probes at Perfectman's mineral only, and they delay the base at top left, but the Vultures get sniped via a goon blocking the ramps of escape.
On December 26 2009 13:23 Pokeball wrote: I don't know but CJ seemed rather pissed at Movie right now. I would be too and I have not felt this pissed at a player for a long time. Movie is in the Ro4 of the OSL and he seriously did not expect this to happen.
Every time I watch PvZ, I always get the feeling that protoss players don't have any game sense whatsoever. They always seem to rely heavily on the sheer brute force protoss units tend to have (no, not saying protoss imba here.) and some, such as Movie, use their better mechanics to conquer their foe.
Movie is known for having a very low APM by pro standards (around 270). If anything he doesn't win by mechanics but by using his brain to make good decisions - in this game his brain was clearly not serving him at 100% and it showed.
APM doesn't mean you have bad mechanics. By.Hero has insane APM yet he's completely mediocre at everything even mutalisk micro. Flash has quite low APM yet you can probably say that he has the best TvZ micro of the current terrans (his multitasking is still a bit ehhhhh). Its how you use that APM that matters.
I can't say for sure but I've always felt he had good unit control as a whole, especially his zealot control.
flash isnt low apm, hes mid 300's usually and has one of the highest eapms in all of progaming
I really dislike pvt on match point - terran gets 4 bases and there's not much protoss can do about it while toss gets 6 but can't hold the 2 that matter very easily at all... and then the game goes on forever
Perfectman has now taken all of the map other than the right side. Secured his economic advantage now. Iris can only turtle and wait for his inevitable defeat
PerfectMan getting a fifth and sixth, pushes in again, and another victory of sorts, but Iris once again holds onto his bases. It's amazing that Iris hasn't been run over by now. I have a feeling the excellent EMP he had that last fight is a part of it.
Iris may have a shot at this, if he can take out a base now.
Perfectman loses all his zlots before Iris brings up his main tank force so has to retreat. Iris building a proxy CC lol. Double recall incoming. BOTH GET SNIPED LOL FAIL
perfectman losing 2 arbiters trying to get a recall into iris' main unsuccesfully. iris still well and truly in this, on such a small map where tanks are really strong. iris destroying perfectman's 6 o clock with a tank push whilst building a CC right outside to take it for himself.
iris now pushing on perfectman's 12 whilst perfectman going for iris at 6, looks like iris is being successful on both fronts, both defending and attacking but perfectman gets the CC after all
OH MAN now iris is in perfectman's 4th base at 11 o clock, now things are really bad for him he won't be able to sustain his gateway count nearly as much
iris playing so well. for some reason im gettin flashbacks of iris vs bisu game 5 last msl...tho this game has very little in common with that one. i guess im just still sad about that game lol
Perfectman had at least 3 perfectly good opportunities to push and just left his army sit at the 3 o' clock... I was prepared to switch to MBC vs KHAN knowing that Hydra wouldn't beat Killer....
On December 26 2009 13:59 ejac wrote: Massive choke from perfectman.GG iris
thats it.
PerfectMan had two huge armies that he was able to beat most of Iris's forces with, but each time he lost his arbiters or EMP made them useless, and he couldn't go all the way.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On December 26 2009 14:19 Kimaker wrote: You'd think that with the best Zerg in the world to practice against, Hiya would have a better TvZ. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hiya probably practices with Killer. Jaedong probably demands a better Terran practice partner
Point well taken, but then who does he practice against on Oz? lol.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On December 26 2009 14:19 Kimaker wrote: You'd think that with the best Zerg in the world to practice against, Hiya would have a better TvZ. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hiya probably practices with Killer. Jaedong probably demands a better Terran practice partner
Point well taken, but then who does he practice against on Oz? lol.
Oh God, is this why Jaedong got raped by Flash yesterday?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On December 26 2009 14:19 Kimaker wrote: You'd think that with the best Zerg in the world to practice against, Hiya would have a better TvZ. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hiya probably practices with Killer. Jaedong probably demands a better Terran practice partner
i thought he might go 2 hatch muta into crazy zerg (which is normally a variation from 3 hatch muta).... didn't end up but that was still a sweet rape.
On December 26 2009 14:33 Colbert wrote: I'm a big fan of both JD and Effort.
I like how they have different styles. JD is much more aggressive while Effort is a macro beast.
You mean management. Jaedong has awesome macro too- but EffOrt loves to get into the late game and wear you down with hive, whereas JD likes to roll you midgame with some combo of lair units.
On December 26 2009 14:35 Hinanawi wrote: Hiya has the best poker face ever.
oh boy this entire game I thought killer was red.. damn now I am VERY impressed by hydra this was a great game (though bad mistakes by killer certainly helped)
On December 26 2009 15:36 Avidkeystamper wrote: He won v. Movie last time Oz was down 2-1 to CJ. Why are people saying this? (actual question).
Probably just in shock from Killer actually playing well and then doing.. whatever the hell that was. I say it's the name, personally. BaxteR gets nuked by Boxer and loses ZvZs he has won, Killer goes on 5-game winning streaks when he's on my antiteam.
Flash + Lux + violet is a solid 3-man combo. Oz has Jaedong, a would-be-but-still-inexperienced Killer, and potential-less trash. Until Killer is COMPLETELY rid of his nerves 3-1 is gonna be a common occurrence.
On December 26 2009 16:30 love1another wrote: Flash + Lux + violet is a solid 3-man combo. Oz has Jaedong, a would-be-but-still-inexperienced Killer, and potential-less trash. Until Killer is COMPLETELY rid of his nerves 3-1 is gonna be a common occurrence.
HiyA is 8-5 this season, showing that clearly he is a worthless player who has no value to Oz.
If I may criticize the OP a tiny tiny bit I think you should change the recommended games description of set 4 to something like "features nice play from a player at a BO disadvantage" or something instead of completely spoiling the game. Same sorta goes the other description.
On December 26 2009 16:30 love1another wrote: Flash + Lux + violet is a solid 3-man combo. Oz has Jaedong, a would-be-but-still-inexperienced Killer, and potential-less trash. Until Killer is COMPLETELY rid of his nerves 3-1 is gonna be a common occurrence.
On December 26 2009 16:30 love1another wrote: Flash + Lux + violet is a solid 3-man combo. Oz has Jaedong, a would-be-but-still-inexperienced Killer, and potential-less trash. Until Killer is COMPLETELY rid of his nerves 3-1 is gonna be a common occurrence.
That's not really fair to MBC, since HyuN is actually turning into a respectable player. Aside from his game against Upmagic, he's actually looked quite strong, with wins against Calm (twice), Stork, Flash and free. KHAN is more of the level of OZ right now than MBC is.
Did Killer throw that game away, or did Hydra just react really well?
His response to the 9pool < 12 pool disadvantage was to add his second hatch in his main. He did a good job of holding off Killer's zerglings, and then tried to pressure with his firts mutas, but Killer had spore'd up. So instead of forcing the issue like we've seen so many zergs do recently, Hydra expanded, and was able to barely hold that (moving his mutas out to damage Killer's gas was a risky and almost deadly decision) but when he did hold it, suddenly he resumed muta production at just about the timing that Killer was getting mutas.
So in essence, Hydra was able to turn a base defect into a hatchery advantage, and did so at just the right timing. I just don't think Killer knew how to react, while Hydra had clearly played this exact situation before.
On December 26 2009 13:07 FireGuyX wrote: Movie pretty much mastered HBR, a ZvP favored map.
I think Movie realizes that corsair/reaver is the ONLY way to go on HBR, it's too bad Stork didn't realize that.
Jaedong is copying the exact same built that Shine used against Stork =). Jaedong will realize that Movie isn't Stork on HBR.
damn HBR is so imba for Zergs.
lol Love the progression dude. Praise Movie. Insult Stork. Then reinforce that you think Movie >>> Stork. Then when Movie gets utterly bitch stomped even faster than Stork, blame map imba. NICE!
On December 26 2009 13:07 FireGuyX wrote: Movie pretty much mastered HBR, a ZvP favored map.
I think Movie realizes that corsair/reaver is the ONLY way to go on HBR, it's too bad Stork didn't realize that.
Jaedong is copying the exact same built that Shine used against Stork =). Jaedong will realize that Movie isn't Stork on HBR.
damn HBR is so imba for Zergs.
lol Love the progression dude. Praise Movie. Insult Stork. Then reinforce that you think Movie >>> Stork. Then when Movie gets utterly bitch stomped even faster than Stork, blame map imba. NICE!
You shouldn't call out people on insulting stork, since you've shown in your posts you think movie is as it fault/bad as much as he thinks stork is at fault/bad
On December 26 2009 13:07 FireGuyX wrote: Movie pretty much mastered HBR, a ZvP favored map.
I think Movie realizes that corsair/reaver is the ONLY way to go on HBR, it's too bad Stork didn't realize that.
Jaedong is copying the exact same built that Shine used against Stork =). Jaedong will realize that Movie isn't Stork on HBR.
damn HBR is so imba for Zergs.
lol Love the progression dude. Praise Movie. Insult Stork. Then reinforce that you think Movie >>> Stork. Then when Movie gets utterly bitch stomped even faster than Stork, blame map imba. NICE!
Yeah, this is getting out of hand. Especially since the build and timing Jaedong used were completely different from Movie's.
On December 26 2009 13:07 FireGuyX wrote: Movie pretty much mastered HBR, a ZvP favored map.
I think Movie realizes that corsair/reaver is the ONLY way to go on HBR, it's too bad Stork didn't realize that.
Jaedong is copying the exact same built that Shine used against Stork =). Jaedong will realize that Movie isn't Stork on HBR.
damn HBR is so imba for Zergs.
lol Love the progression dude. Praise Movie. Insult Stork. Then reinforce that you think Movie >>> Stork. Then when Movie gets utterly bitch stomped even faster than Stork, blame map imba. NICE!
You shouldn't call out people on insulting stork, since you've shown in your posts you think movie is as it fault/bad as much as he thinks stork is at fault/bad
I don't think Stork > Movie in PvZ. I think they're about equal. He thinks the opposite. Yet, when the evidence is laid out there plain as day, he starts blaming map imba rather than the player.
On December 27 2009 01:25 tree.hugger wrote: Did Killer throw that game away, or did Hydra just react really well?
His response to the 9pool < 12 pool disadvantage was to add his second hatch in his main. He did a good job of holding off Killer's zerglings, and then tried to pressure with his firts mutas, but Killer had spore'd up. So instead of forcing the issue like we've seen so many zergs do recently, Hydra expanded, and was able to barely hold that (moving his mutas out to damage Killer's gas was a risky and almost deadly decision) but when he did hold it, suddenly he resumed muta production at just about the timing that Killer was getting mutas.
So in essence, Hydra was able to turn a base defect into a hatchery advantage, and did so at just the right timing. I just don't think Killer knew how to react, while Hydra had clearly played this exact situation before.
No, hydra really played that well. Like you said it looks like they played this in practice before.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/keit/Proleague0910.jpg)
Movie < New Heartbreak Ridge > 
Jaedong
Iris < Match Point > 
![[image loading]](http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/1899/magikarp.jpg)
