On December 14 2009 17:51 Roffles wrote: Fuck, who do I root for? I love Best, but I love Stork too. Fuck my life.
Same But hope for an ace match, so let's root for BeSt since s2 has few chances to win his game. Well it depends on Canata, if he wins, and because Bisu will win, I want Stork to win because I wanna see a nice ace match like a Bisu-Stork.
s2 is undefeated against Protoss. s2 totally has this. More seriously, I don't see Bisu dropping his game against TurN, what with TurN being relatively new. Hoping for great games from Great/Canata and Stork/Best.
Kinda lacklustre lineup for SKT, what happened to Hyuk? Why have they started playing s2 instead? Anyways, rooting for SKT but wouldn't be surprised if Khan took this one.
This one actually looks winnable for Khan. Also we get to see more of TurN, which is always a good thing. Sadly though I don't think the kid has much of a chance against Bisu.
great < Canata Stork > BeSt TurN < Bisu JangBi > s2 Stork > Bisu
On December 14 2009 18:15 Ikonn wrote: TurN is going to style on Bisu.
...
Maybe if I just believe hard enough, it'll actually happen
Its not that impossible... Turn is still an unproven upstart who has shown nothing but promise. Sure there is no evidence that he is the favourite, but there is no evidence to show his play is outclassed by Bisu.
On December 14 2009 18:15 Ikonn wrote: TurN is going to style on Bisu.
...
Maybe if I just believe hard enough, it'll actually happen
Its not that impossible... Turn is still an unproven upstart who has shown nothing but promise. Sure there is no evidence that he is the favourite, but there is no evidence to show his play is outclassed by Bisu.
It can happen, I hope it happens, but Bisu is the heavy favorite.
Canata pushing out with 5 tanks and 2 control groups of golis. Vultures moving around the map, trying to lay mines and get drone kills at Great's third.
Canata comes out ahead by far in an engagement in the middle.
On December 14 2009 19:16 cascades wrote: Wow amazing play by stork. How does he do it with 160 apm only, while those with more can't?
lol his apm is ~260
Nice to see you posting again Romad. I heard that his eapm was 160, whereas S-class like Bisu has like 280, yet Stork seems to be be better at keeping HT alive.
On December 14 2009 19:16 cascades wrote: Wow amazing play by stork. How does he do it with 160 apm only, while those with more can't?
lol his apm is ~260
Nice to see you posting again Romad. I heard that his eapm was 160, whereas S-class like Bisu has like 280, yet Stork seems to be be better at keeping HT alive.
Oo who told u that? whatever, he was wrong lol stork has usually 250-280 APM and ~180/190 EAPM like most foreigners. bisu has 330-400 APM and 220-250 EAPM, best dunno obviously u dont need that extra 30-50 EAPM just to keep ur rvr or ht alive
On December 14 2009 19:16 cascades wrote: Wow amazing play by stork. How does he do it with 160 apm only, while those with more can't?
lol his apm is ~260
Nice to see you posting again Romad. I heard that his eapm was 160, whereas S-class like Bisu has like 280, yet Stork seems to be be better at keeping HT alive.
His eapm is about 190, while Bisu's is about 230, not a significant difference imo.
now he beats Best in a perfect PvP and now I'm looking forward to see his ne PvZ style. This guy sure is strong. Maybe every progamer should take a break and play WoW instead>.<
well, maybe stork is bests pvp nemesis. i think there was a time when 60% of bests all time pvp losses were delivered by stork. he just cant win him, just like jangbi cant win bisu and stork cant win jangbi in practice.
now he beats Best in a perfect PvP and now I'm looking forward to see his ne PvZ style. This guy sure is strong. Maybe every progamer should take a break and play WoW instead>.<
On December 14 2009 19:16 cascades wrote: Wow amazing play by stork. How does he do it with 160 apm only, while those with more can't?
lol his apm is ~260
Nice to see you posting again Romad. I heard that his eapm was 160, whereas S-class like Bisu has like 280, yet Stork seems to be be better at keeping HT alive.
His eapm is about 190, while Bisu's is about 230, not a significant difference imo.
Some info about TurN, since I just watched his first official appearance in Proleague a few hours ago:
Apparently he's only recently become a progamer, like within the past 3 months or something.
He's acknowledged as a very good Terran by Samsung, and it would seem that they are looking to him to take FBH's old role. When the commentators asked his teammates about him, they emphasized that they weren't just saying he's good because he's a fellow teammate, but that he's legitimately very good by any standard.
It's Korean culture after all, so names are a bit more important (witness KT renaming themselves to Rolster after much deliberation). The commentators speculated that his ID could be a *cough* TurNing point for the fortunes of Samsung Terrans.
On December 14 2009 19:34 yoodeok wrote: Some info about TurN, since I just watched his first official appearance in Proleague a few hours ago:
Apparently he's only recently become a progamer, like within the past 3 months or something.
He's acknowledged as a very good Terran by Samsung, and it would seem that they are looking to him to take FBH's old role. When the commentators asked his teammates about him, they emphasized that they weren't just saying he's good because he's a fellow teammate, but that he's legitimately very good by any standard.
It's Korean culture after all, so names are a bit more important (witness KT renaming themselves to Rolster after much deliberation). The commentators speculated that his ID could be a *cough* TurNing point for the fortunes of Samsung Terrans.
It'll be interesting to watch!
I dunno, besides beating typeb, he didn't do anything else impressive in the preseason.
On December 14 2009 19:34 yoodeok wrote: Some info about TurN, since I just watched his first official appearance in Proleague a few hours ago:
Apparently he's only recently become a progamer, like within the past 3 months or something.
He's acknowledged as a very good Terran by Samsung, and it would seem that they are looking to him to take FBH's old role. When the commentators asked his teammates about him, they emphasized that they weren't just saying he's good because he's a fellow teammate, but that he's legitimately very good by any standard.
It's Korean culture after all, so names are a bit more important (witness KT renaming themselves to Rolster after much deliberation). The commentators speculated that his ID could be a *cough* TurNing point for the fortunes of Samsung Terrans.
It'll be interesting to watch!
I dunno, besides beating typeb, he didn't do anything else impressive in the preseason.
That game against Type-b was on his third day as a progamer. He lost the two map test games, but I guess he hadn't played on those maps yet. And he didn't do bad in the offlines at all, getting knocked out by two protoss aces.
That was a crazy game, can`t believe Bisu came back after losing that many probes. Some really really clutch Push breaking that game, and insane micro early from turn.
WOW BISU! WOW, just kept dismantling Turns pushes. Awesome micro from both players.
I think Turn will be a good addition to Khan
What's up with native English speakers nowadays?^^
Nevertheless I agree with your statement, he looks promising. Also commendable that he didn't sit back and turtle for the sure win when he could, too bad (for him) that he played right into Bisu's hands with the overaggression...
On December 14 2009 19:50 NguN wrote: Turn GG's. A little premature?
EDIT: Maybe not. No siege tanks.
Also. EPIC GAME. Turn is somebody to look out for
Bisu had made primarily gateway units, except the shuttle, Turn committed a lot of resources to his bunker rush and his pushes. Coupling that with Bisu's crazy ability to deny any sort of push, it wouldve been a miracle for him to win. Maybe could have tried his luck for another minute or so I guess?
I think TurN can turn into something big if he works on that, that was really good aggro but he needs to stop trying to just constantly pushing, he never had to time to actually setup and so his vultures are laying mines to defend the tanks WHILE Lots are rushing his tanks. Just a bit too late.
On December 14 2009 19:52 Oystein wrote: That was a crazy game, can`t believe Bisu came back after losing that many probes. Some really really clutch Push breaking that game, and insane micro early from turn.
I'm not saying TurN is a newbie, but that timing push when you damage protoss so early is not a good idea. Its a newbie mistake if you ask me. You can just sit and wait because Protoss will most likely even cut eco to make up for the unit disadvantage and stop your push. If he manages to stop this timing push YOU are fucked. Doesn't matter if he doesn't have good eco then.
I think turn played a little to aggressively here. He should of held the bridge with tanks and vultures and turrets and send like 4 vultures to harass bisu's 3rd. If bisu tries to save his 3rd, turn would just have to move his army in and yea.
When those Probes exploded I'm sure Bisu was one G away from giving up.
Probably should have focused down that nexus earlier on instead of mining everything when observers were out. Good game by Turn. Best of luck in the future!
You have to admit, it's understandable. You've got freaking Bisu on the ropes, you wipe out half his probes, he can't replenish his troops too fast, you can't help but go for the kill. Hell, that's what I was telling Turn what to do through my monitor. I got lost in the moment.
On December 14 2009 19:52 Oystein wrote: That was a crazy game, can`t believe Bisu came back after losing that many probes. Some really really clutch Push breaking that game, and insane micro early from turn.
I'm not saying TurN is a newbie, but that timing push when you damage protoss so early is not a good idea. Its a newbie mistake if you ask me. You can just sit and wait because Protoss will most likely even cut eco to make up for the unit disadvantage and stop your push. If he manages to stop this timing push YOU are fucked. Doesn't matter if he doesn't have good eco then.
To use your own words from the other thread "Why risk going into the lategame vs a superior player with much greater multitasking, when you can finish it early"
He was soooo close at pushing all the way to the bridge and only some SICK push stopping from Bisu hindered him. Its a bit of a risk to do the push, but he had reduced his goon count with his early vults and mines and had amassed himself a good amount of tank, was on 5 fac + knew Bisu probably would not have speed yet so I still think its a pretty OK decision to go for the push, tho better players just might have sat back and try to ride the advantage.
On December 14 2009 19:58 MountainDewJunkie wrote: You have to admit, it's understandable. You've got freaking Bisu on the ropes, you wipe out half his probes, he can't replenish his troops too fast, you can't help but go for the kill. Hell, that's what I was telling Turn what to do through my monitor. I got lost in the moment.
I think being unpatient is the main reason terrans lose TvP really often.
WOW BISU! WOW, just kept dismantling Turns pushes. Awesome micro from both players.
I think Turn will be a good addition to Khan
What's up with native English speakers nowadays?^^
Nevertheless I agree with your statement, he looks promising. Also commendable that he didn't sit back and turtle for the sure win when he could, too bad (for him) that he played right into Bisu's hands with the overaggression...
I've been staring at this and yet can't figure out why you bolded "addition."
On December 14 2009 19:52 Oystein wrote: That was a crazy game, can`t believe Bisu came back after losing that many probes. Some really really clutch Push breaking that game, and insane micro early from turn.
I'm not saying TurN is a newbie, but that timing push when you damage protoss so early is not a good idea. Its a newbie mistake if you ask me. You can just sit and wait because Protoss will most likely even cut eco to make up for the unit disadvantage and stop your push. If he manages to stop this timing push YOU are fucked. Doesn't matter if he doesn't have good eco then.
To use your own words from the other thread "Why risk going into the lategame vs a superior player with much greater multitasking, when you can finish it early"
He was soooo close at pushing all the way to the bridge and only some SICK push stopping from Bisu hindered him. Its a bit of a risk to do the push, but he had reduced his goon count with his early vults and mines and had amassed himself a good amount of tank, was on 5 fac + knew Bisu probably would not have speed yet so I still think its a pretty OK decision to go for the push, tho better players just might have sat back and try to ride the advantage.
When you play vs Bisu every minute plays againts you. So early game push would be a great deal.
WOW BISU! WOW, just kept dismantling Turns pushes. Awesome micro from both players.
I think Turn will be a good addition to Khan
What's up with native English speakers nowadays?^^
Nevertheless I agree with your statement, he looks promising. Also commendable that he didn't sit back and turtle for the sure win when he could, too bad (for him) that he played right into Bisu's hands with the overaggression...
I've been staring at this and yet can't figure out why you bolded "addition."
The original was edition, it was fixed when he quoted it.
On December 14 2009 19:52 Oystein wrote: That was a crazy game, can`t believe Bisu came back after losing that many probes. Some really really clutch Push breaking that game, and insane micro early from turn.
I'm not saying TurN is a newbie, but that timing push when you damage protoss so early is not a good idea. Its a newbie mistake if you ask me. You can just sit and wait because Protoss will most likely even cut eco to make up for the unit disadvantage and stop your push. If he manages to stop this timing push YOU are fucked. Doesn't matter if he doesn't have good eco then.
To use your own words from the other thread "Why risk going into the lategame vs a superior player with much greater multitasking, when you can finish it early"
He was soooo close at pushing all the way to the bridge and only some SICK push stopping from Bisu hindered him. Its a bit of a risk to do the push, but he had reduced his goon count with his early vults and mines and had amassed himself a good amount of tank, was on 5 fac + knew Bisu probably would not have speed yet so I still think its a pretty OK decision to go for the push, tho better players just might have sat back and try to ride the advantage.
You can actually end ZvT early if you have a really big advantage because Terran can't cut down economy and build up a strong enough army to kill you, because ZERG is the one having the crucial units. (lurkers many lings..)
When you watched the replay, Bisu had like 17 probes left(?) when the action stopped. TurN could either expand again and slow push or do that timing push and most probably fail...
This happened to me sooo many times, I better go into a later push which is not going to fail ~.~
WOW BISU! WOW, just kept dismantling Turns pushes. Awesome micro from both players.
I think Turn will be a good addition to Khan
What's up with native English speakers nowadays?^^
Nevertheless I agree with your statement, he looks promising. Also commendable that he didn't sit back and turtle for the sure win when he could, too bad (for him) that he played right into Bisu's hands with the overaggression...
I've been staring at this and yet can't figure out why you bolded "addition."
the guy originally wrote "edition"
*edit* oh, i was beaten
man turn's micro with his 3 tank push and those vult reinforcements was SO sexy. he'd push 1 vult forward, lay mines. when the goons targeted that vult/mine, the tanks would inch up and get a few free shots on the goons. god that is difficult to do.
Bisu lacks any emotion. What he thought probably was: "Well, everything went exactly like I planed it to happen. What's up with everybody? Ordinary PvT, and not even close. Who's next?" >.<
I still think TurN was the best zero points I've ever spent. but what can you do against an awesome player like Bisu. Looking forward to more games from TurN =)
Looks like everyone's impressed on the commentator side. Even the guy who is always skeptical had some bad things to say, then changed his mind and said "Forget everything I said, this guy has what it takes to be big." Obviously the shuttle fake saved Bisu when precious seconds were ticking away. The final word was that TurN does really well when things are going the way he anticipated but perhaps not so well when they're not, but his mechanics are good and he's a player to watch. Bisu won that last one with sheer force of experience.
I'm personally pretty damn happy that Samsung has TurN.
On December 14 2009 20:03 LosingID8 wrote: man turn's micro with his 3 tank push and those vult reinforcements was SO sexy. he'd push 1 vult forward, lay mines. when the goons targeted that vult/mine, the tanks would inch up and get a few free shots on the goons. god that is difficult to do.
This is exactly what made the commentators say "Never mind, this guy has what it takes."
every1 would have been raging at him harder for letting bisu recover.
But, if he had taken the nexus out with the vultures, just mining the ramp to main(before the probe bomb) and then sieged tanks to take out Bisus 3rd with loads of vultures to defend that ramp and back he could have outmacroed Bisu quickly with his 3 bases and slowly pushed to Bisus natural, no one would´ve raged at him because that would´ve probably been the right thing to do. Now Turn got a bit too greedy trying to end the game right there.
On December 14 2009 20:05 yoodeok wrote: Looks like everyone's impressed on the commentator side. Even the guy who is always skeptical had some bad things to say, then changed his mind and said "Forget everything I said, this guy has what it takes to be big." Obviously the shuttle fake saved Bisu when precious seconds were ticking away. The final word was that TurN does really well when things are going the way he anticipated but perhaps not so well when they're not, but his mechanics are good and he's a player to watch. Bisu won that last one with sheer force of experience.
I'm personally pretty damn happy that Samsung has TurN.
I think turn should of known that after harassing bisu for so long and after seeing that he expanded, he should of known that it didn't contain a reaver. Turn just needs to be on the scene longer. I have hopes for this kid.
every1 would have been raging at him harder for letting bisu recover.
But, if he had taken the nexus out with the vultures, just mining the ramp to main(before the probe bomb) and then sieged tanks to take out Bisus 3rd with loads of vultures to defend that ramp and back he could have outmacroed Bisu quickly with his 3 bases and slowly pushed to Bisus natural, no one would´ve raged at him because that would´ve probably been the right thing to do. Now Turn got a bit too greedy trying to end the game right there.
If he lost everyone woulda raged that he threw away his advantage by being to passive, doesnt matter what the right thing to do was, if you lose ppl are going to rage. I personally think that an inferior player should always go for the kill rather than play a longer game, + Show Spoiler +
but hey, Hyun outlasted Flash after he got an huge early game advantage
On December 14 2009 20:05 yoodeok wrote: Looks like everyone's impressed on the commentator side. Even the guy who is always skeptical had some bad things to say, then changed his mind and said "Forget everything I said, this guy has what it takes to be big." Obviously the shuttle fake saved Bisu when precious seconds were ticking away. The final word was that TurN does really well when things are going the way he anticipated but perhaps not so well when they're not, but his mechanics are good and he's a player to watch. Bisu won that last one with sheer force of experience.
I'm personally pretty damn happy that Samsung has TurN.
I think turn should of known that after harassing bisu for so long and after seeing that he expanded, he should of known that it didn't contain a reaver. Turn just needs to be on the scene longer. I have hopes for this kid.
Now that just makes my eyes bleed, please "should have" dear sir. Please.
Back on topic: What kind of ace match guys?! s2 will slaughter JangBi's atrocious PvZ! (I hope at least)
On December 14 2009 20:05 yoodeok wrote: Looks like everyone's impressed on the commentator side. Even the guy who is always skeptical had some bad things to say, then changed his mind and said "Forget everything I said, this guy has what it takes to be big." Obviously the shuttle fake saved Bisu when precious seconds were ticking away. The final word was that TurN does really well when things are going the way he anticipated but perhaps not so well when they're not, but his mechanics are good and he's a player to watch. Bisu won that last one with sheer force of experience.
I'm personally pretty damn happy that Samsung has TurN.
I think turn should of known that after harassing bisu for so long and after seeing that he expanded, he should of known that it didn't contain a reaver. Turn just needs to be on the scene longer. I have hopes for this kid.
Now that just makes my eyes bleed, please "should have" dear sir. Please.
Back on topic: What kind of ace match guys?! s2 will slaughter JangBi's atrocious PvZ! (I hope at least)
On December 14 2009 20:05 yoodeok wrote: Looks like everyone's impressed on the commentator side. Even the guy who is always skeptical had some bad things to say, then changed his mind and said "Forget everything I said, this guy has what it takes to be big." Obviously the shuttle fake saved Bisu when precious seconds were ticking away. The final word was that TurN does really well when things are going the way he anticipated but perhaps not so well when they're not, but his mechanics are good and he's a player to watch. Bisu won that last one with sheer force of experience.
I'm personally pretty damn happy that Samsung has TurN.
I think turn should of known that after harassing bisu for so long and after seeing that he expanded, he should of known that it didn't contain a reaver. Turn just needs to be on the scene longer. I have hopes for this kid.
Now that just makes my eyes bleed, please "should have" dear sir. Please.
Back on topic: What kind of ace match guys?! s2 will slaughter JangBi's atrocious PvZ! (I hope at least)
On December 14 2009 20:05 yoodeok wrote: Looks like everyone's impressed on the commentator side. Even the guy who is always skeptical had some bad things to say, then changed his mind and said "Forget everything I said, this guy has what it takes to be big." Obviously the shuttle fake saved Bisu when precious seconds were ticking away. The final word was that TurN does really well when things are going the way he anticipated but perhaps not so well when they're not, but his mechanics are good and he's a player to watch. Bisu won that last one with sheer force of experience.
I'm personally pretty damn happy that Samsung has TurN.
I think turn should of known that after harassing bisu for so long and after seeing that he expanded, he should of known that it didn't contain a reaver. Turn just needs to be on the scene longer. I have hopes for this kid.
Now that just makes my eyes bleed, please "should have" dear sir. Please.
Back on topic: What kind of ace match guys?! s2 will slaughter JangBi's atrocious PvZ! (I hope at least)
Uhh.. Jangbi has to win for an ace match.
Your point being? I was saying there won't be an ace 'cause s2 is going to win.
Anyway, the game has started...can we talk about that now?
Seems like Jangbi decided against morphing archons (he saw the mass speed hydras) and has 4 temps sitting at home, storm researching supposedly. Starts a robo bay while s2 is whoring some drones.
Hah that fail drop has some competition. Jangbi decides to do his own. Drops 3 zealots in the main to damage the sunk a bit, but get taken out right away.
SKT players take a long time to gg What a bad game Hey atleast we get epic ace rivalry match considering both teams aces are rivals with each other in every way
On December 14 2009 20:27 samachking wrote: SKT players take a long time to gg What a bad game Hey atleast we get epic ace rivalry match considering both teams aces are rivals with each other in every way
On December 14 2009 20:27 samachking wrote: SKT players take a long time to gg What a bad game Hey atleast we get epic ace rivalry match considering both teams aces are rivals with each other in every way
Yeah swarm would've totally killed Jangbi there, but he hit the timing window with that attack.
Actually I maybe missed it, he took out another building besides a sunken with his first 4 zeal drop, maybe that was a morphing defiler mound? Would explain the delay. If not, it was just fail.
On December 14 2009 20:22 samachking wrote: Its like watching C+/B- players duke it out T__T
Why trash talk? I'm pretty sure JB would wipe the floor with any B- player in existence. I often see you in threads making horribly wrong calls about how a game is going. Pls don't talk about any iccup ranks unless you've achieved them yourself, much less try to rate how a pro is playing. You've shown several times now in LR threads that you don't understand pro play.
On December 14 2009 20:22 samachking wrote: Its like watching C+/B- players duke it out T__T
Why trash talk? I'm pretty sure JB would wipe the floor with any B- player in existence. I often see you in threads making horribly wrong calls about how a game is going. Pls don't talk about any iccup ranks unless you've achieved them yourself, much less try to rate how a pro is playing. You've shown several times now in LR threads that you don't understand pro play.
On December 14 2009 20:22 samachking wrote: Its like watching C+/B- players duke it out T__T
Why trash talk? I'm pretty sure JB would wipe the floor with any B- player in existence. I often see you in threads making horribly wrong calls about how a game is going. Pls don't talk about any iccup ranks unless you've achieved them yourself, much less try to rate how a pro is playing. You've shown several times now in LR threads that you don't understand pro play.
Tell me that S2's play looked much better than B- Hint: It didnt
I seriously cannot understand what the fuck was going through s2's mind. It's like he just sat there staring at the screen, too amazed that he held of Jangbi's midgame push
On December 14 2009 20:22 samachking wrote: Its like watching C+/B- players duke it out T__T
Why trash talk? I'm pretty sure JB would wipe the floor with any B- player in existence. I often see you in threads making horribly wrong calls about how a game is going. Pls don't talk about any iccup ranks unless you've achieved them yourself, much less try to rate how a pro is playing. You've shown several times now in LR threads that you don't understand pro play.
On December 14 2009 20:22 samachking wrote: Its like watching C+/B- players duke it out T__T
Why trash talk? I'm pretty sure JB would wipe the floor with any B- player in existence. I often see you in threads making horribly wrong calls about how a game is going. Pls don't talk about any iccup ranks unless you've achieved them yourself, much less try to rate how a pro is playing. You've shown several times now in LR threads that you don't understand pro play.
Tell me that S2's play looked much better than B- Hint: It didnt
On December 14 2009 20:41 Emon_ wrote: Ill tell you guys the score of the other match too sinc i dont give a fuck about others and i wanna spoil everything
Bisu!! Make him remember, I want Stork to have flashbacks of those statis probes, of that missing upgrade, of that imba Bisu reaver behind minneral lines... SKT must prevail!
On December 14 2009 20:41 Emon_ wrote: Ill tell you guys the score of the other match too sinc i dont give a fuck about others and i wanna spoil everything
Bisu cancelling his pylon again! Stork still has scouting probe alive, Bisu's makes a lucky escape. Goon range for bisu after dual zealot, stork loses his probe in the end.
damnit Bisu come ON! Enough with the DTs! This has been going on for 2 and a half years! Trademark unit my ass! More like, throw away game unit ever since fall of -07
edit: Okay, Stork's actually opening himself up to it. You win, I lose.
Stork went Nexus and the scouting probe sees that. 2nd gate going up Bisu and templar archives. Stork has no idea I think but he goes to attack with his 3 goons now.
Stork setting up his defence, observatory is warping atm. DTs are out and running across the map. Bisu kills a scouting probe. Stork looks worried, but first obs should be coming out JUST IN TIME.
Stork sees the shadows, but Bisu splits them up! One DT gets killed at the main base, another was at the expansion. Stork safe now against DT, though he had to stop mining for a bit.
Stork getting counter DT, but he should have seen the observatory ...
he might be dropping them, also getting storm and temps. Maybe dual drop incoming? Stork places a probe at 6, might be expanding there next. Bisu's obs might spy the shuttle!
Stork doing an excellent job of delaying Bisu's 4th base with that pesky DT, Bisu's going to behin in teh econ game for a long time, Stork's 4th is 1/2 done
On December 14 2009 21:05 SkelA wrote: WHO IS THE BEST TOSS BISU FANBOYS HUH!
I'm not a huge Bisu fan but seeing this kind of post over and over and over and over everytime Bisu or anyone SKT related loses is getting really, really tireing
I have Stork, Khan, JD, Movie, Killer on main team. I have Han and roro on anti.
I have stork, jd, bisu, and flash. Guess what, stork and bisu won, played an ace match, khan won, stork won an ace match, jaedong won and won an ace match, and
Sers Stork is Best Protoss of all time. None can touch him. He is masterful. He is skinny. He has many many silvers. He is Commander, Dinotoss, STOOOOOOOOOORK <3
On December 14 2009 21:05 Djin)ftw( wrote: gg raped
maybe the best pvp i ever saw, wtf was that
then u havent watched game 5 of bisu vs stork msl finals on loki, that was truly the best pvp of all times.
but ofc todays game was great aswell. stork is such a sexy beast. im just sad that skt lost once again.
indeed i haven't. i don't think i even saw all the pvps from stork OSL win where he won against bisu and best. i think pvp is quite boring (thats why i play pvz pvt tvp). but i'll watch it right now, thx for the hint xD
On December 14 2009 21:10 nATHANN wrote: Your favourite team winning? your favourite protoss winning? and player you dislike the most losing in ace? Perfect day 8)
Last game of Bisu v Stork in PL kinda looked like this, with Stork just absolutely commanding the game.. seems like Bisu's confidence is still kinda shaky because he was playing quite passively all game, absolutely no drops/harassment whatsoever... Stork was just an absolute baller and beast though, sexy zealot raids.
The cycle between Stork and Bisu continues, soon it will be Bisu's turn to dominate Stork :D
On December 14 2009 21:14 InFiNitY[pG] wrote: yo bisu, I know you just won best Protoss of the year and I'm a let you finish, but stork has one of the best protoss of ALL TIME
Further proof that Stork's biggest enemy is his own lackadaisical attitude. When he's serious, the man is simply brilliant. Beating Bisu at his own game with ridiculous harass and defense.
Also, is it just me was does it seem like Stork's APM has risen quite a bit in his recent surge? I've never seen the guy multi-task like this ever before.
On December 14 2009 21:20 baubo wrote: Further proof that Stork's biggest enemy is his own lackadaisical attitude. When he's serious, the man is simply brilliant. Beating Bisu at his own game with ridiculous harass and defense.
Also, is it just me was does it seem like Stork's APM has risen quite a bit in his recent surge? I've never seen the guy multi-task like this ever before.
For me it seams that he has reworked and tweaked his traditional PvP style. Better decisionmaking overall. Iv'e also noticed this multitask increase.
On December 14 2009 21:20 baubo wrote: Further proof that Stork's biggest enemy is his own lackadaisical attitude. When he's serious, the man is simply brilliant. Beating Bisu at his own game with ridiculous harass and defense.
Also, is it just me was does it seem like Stork's APM has risen quite a bit in his recent surge? I've never seen the guy multi-task like this ever before.
stork lost alot of weight thus resulting in lighter and quicker hands. :p
While Turn has shown a ton of talent and I like the play he has shown so far, I am kind of sad that this mean we're probably never going to see FBH again.
On December 14 2009 21:43 Womwomwom wrote: While Turn has shown a ton of talent and I like the play he has shown so far, I am kind of sad that this mean we're probably never going to see FBH again.
I like FBH as much as the next guy but I don't like to see him losing. Maybe losing his first team spot will light his fire again.
YES! Today I am really happy I saw stork won 2 rounds and carry Samsung Khan to victory He is @ my Fantasy Team, and I chose Samsung Khan as my team.
I am thinking of change my favourite team to Samsung Khan.
ALso Stork is looking so good, and play so well! Just pain my heart to see him keep getting 2nd and 2nd and 2nd. Doesn't matter if he keep getting 2nd. As long as in my heart he is first. !!
So sad I did not watch the game Live!!!!!~ But I will watch vod!! Defintely watch! Must watch!
On December 14 2009 22:41 XiaoJoyce- wrote: YES! Today I am really happy I saw stork won 2 rounds and carry Samsung Khan to victory He is @ my Fantasy Team, and I chose Samsung Khan as my team.
I am thinking of change my favourite team to Samsung Khan.
ALso Stork is looking so good, and play so well! Just pain my heart to see him keep getting 2nd and 2nd and 2nd. Doesn't matter if he keep getting 2nd. As long as in my heart he is first. !!
So sad I did not watch the game Live!!!!!~ But I will watch vod!! Defintely watch! Must watch!
lol were you not there for Incruit OSL? As in the greatest OSL EVAR?
Had just dropped MBC for SKT on the fantasy team. A gamble that so far has not paid off, but there is one more game this week I guess. Get your act together!
On December 14 2009 21:14 InFiNitY[pG] wrote: yo bisu, I know you just won best Protoss of the year and I'm a let you finish, but stork has one of the best protoss of ALL TIME
Finally Khan play like they used to. Hope we'll make it to the playoffs. Stork never ceases to amaze me. Being around for so long and still being able to keep the highest quality level. It's official - Stork is sharing the first place as my favorite protoss player along with Nal_rA.
On December 14 2009 21:14 InFiNitY[pG] wrote: yo bisu, I know you just won best Protoss of the year and I'm a let you finish, but stork has one of the best protoss of ALL TIME
As a Bisu fan, I'd say he's in a slump. Losing to Stork is understandable, but his recent performances have been mediocre at best. For example, he BARELY won against TurN. BARELY. AGAINST TURN.
I can see this being a big deal for stork. He is playing absolutely incredible right now, and Stork beating Best is always one of my favorite things to see.
unfortunately, this doesn't mean shit for Khan. Jangbi is not back in form (beating a T1 zerg is not back in form,) and they still need their non stork guys to wake up!
COMON KHAN
just amazing games from stork though. hes so red hottttt
On December 15 2009 03:53 Skyze wrote: as I said it before.. Why the hell is Bisu considered the "protoss of the year"... Stork is SO much better!
Bisu was a semifinalist in the past year and had the best Protoss record in Proleague, and third overall (behind Jaedong and Flash by 1 point but ahead in win%, only lacking the last game due to Boxer being played for shits and giggles). Bisu played 2-3 against Jaedong in the invitational, which imo was very important, something Stork probably can't do now and definitely couldn't have done back then. Bisu has been more consistent than Stork up until the past few months, which are too short to remedy the entire year's results.
Yeah go Khan], glad to see Stork and JangBi win, TurN is also looking rather promising. It looks like Khan may actually have a chance in PL now. I feel bad for SKT though, they are my second favorite team after Khan.
On December 15 2009 03:53 Skyze wrote: as I said it before.. Why the hell is Bisu considered the "protoss of the year"... Stork is SO much better!
Because Stork played pretty mediocre from around the beginning of 2009, while Bisu advanced deeper in leagues, and was practically invincible in PvP?
It's "Protoss of the Year", not "Protoss of the last 2 months". The fact that Stork has been playing extremely well in the past 2 months and that Bisu is in a mini-slump shouldn't outweigh Bisu's convincingly dominant performance in the other 10 months of the year.
On December 15 2009 04:51 fanatacist wrote: Bisu played 2-3 against Jaedong in the invitational, which imo was very important, something Stork probably can't do now and definitely couldn't have done back then.
Yep great match for my fpl! I actually think that putting TurN in will spark firebathero's motivation again. He would probably work harder to get wins. Now we need a good Zerg in.
On December 15 2009 03:05 On_Slaught wrote: He beat Best and Bisu in one night. That is as impressive as it gets in PvP.
In fairness, Best's PvP hasn't been that good for a while, and Bisu's play has been pretty questionable in the last 2 weeks.
in all fairlness, give the man credit where it's deserved. beating best and bisu on the same night IS as impressive it gets in PvP, considering those three are still arguably top three in the matchup.
In fairness, Best's PvP hasn't been that good for a while, and Bisu's play has been pretty questionable in the last 2 weeks.
in all fairlness, give the man credit where it's deserved. beating best and bisu on the same night IS as impressive it gets in PvP, considering those three are still arguably top three in the matchup.
While it is very impressive indeed, Best is nowhere top3 in PvP anymore.
On December 15 2009 03:05 On_Slaught wrote: He beat Best and Bisu in one night. That is as impressive as it gets in PvP.
In fairness, Best's PvP hasn't been that good for a while, and Bisu's play has been pretty questionable in the last 2 weeks.
in all fairlness, give the man credit where it's deserved. beating best and bisu on the same night IS as impressive it gets in PvP, considering those three are still arguably top three in the matchup.
While it is very impressive indeed, Best is nowhere top3 in PvP anymore.
Are you kidding me? Then who else would be the third person in top 3?
On December 15 2009 03:05 On_Slaught wrote: He beat Best and Bisu in one night. That is as impressive as it gets in PvP.
In fairness, Best's PvP hasn't been that good for a while, and Bisu's play has been pretty questionable in the last 2 weeks.
in all fairlness, give the man credit where it's deserved. beating best and bisu on the same night IS as impressive it gets in PvP, considering those three are still arguably top three in the matchup.
While it is very impressive indeed, Best is nowhere top3 in PvP anymore.
Are you kidding me? Then who else would be the third person in top 3?
Actually he's right... in terms of ELO, shuttle and horang2 are ahead of Best. He's like number 7 or 8 for PvP right now...
The top 3 are bork and kal followed closely by violet
I would put movie a bit higher or at the same level as Best too considering he beat Stork in a pvp recently.
DoctorHelvetica called it, as expected Stork vs. Bisu was amazing. Sure it was looking to be pretty one-sided after Stork's blind BO counter of Bisu's DTs, but his subsequent shuttlefail made it look like a good game...
Then slowly but surely, Stork pulled all kinds of shit to pile up an advantage.It wasn't the methodical army dancing I usually expect to see in a high-level PvP... No, splinters of zealots suiciding here and there. Manly templar drops... it was dirty, it was rough, but it was amazing!
On December 15 2009 03:05 On_Slaught wrote: He beat Best and Bisu in one night. That is as impressive as it gets in PvP.
In fairness, Best's PvP hasn't been that good for a while, and Bisu's play has been pretty questionable in the last 2 weeks.
in all fairlness, give the man credit where it's deserved. beating best and bisu on the same night IS as impressive it gets in PvP, considering those three are still arguably top three in the matchup.
While it is very impressive indeed, Best is nowhere top3 in PvP anymore.
Are you kidding me? Then who else would be the third person in top 3?
Actually he's right... in terms of ELO, shuttle and horang2 are ahead of Best. He's like number 7 or 8 for PvP right now...
The top 3 are bork and kal followed closely by violet
I would put movie a bit higher or at the same level as Best too considering he beat Stork in a pvp recently.
kal is not top 3 pvp. also, ELO is a terrible measurement considering horang2 and shuttle have played like 10 games. i would say it's
On December 15 2009 03:05 On_Slaught wrote: He beat Best and Bisu in one night. That is as impressive as it gets in PvP.
In fairness, Best's PvP hasn't been that good for a while, and Bisu's play has been pretty questionable in the last 2 weeks.
in all fairlness, give the man credit where it's deserved. beating best and bisu on the same night IS as impressive it gets in PvP, considering those three are still arguably top three in the matchup.
While it is very impressive indeed, Best is nowhere top3 in PvP anymore.
Are you kidding me? Then who else would be the third person in top 3?
Actually he's right... in terms of ELO, shuttle and horang2 are ahead of Best. He's like number 7 or 8 for PvP right now...
The top 3 are bork and kal followed closely by violet
I would put movie a bit higher or at the same level as Best too considering he beat Stork in a pvp recently.
kal is not top 3 pvp. also, ELO is a terrible measurement considering horang2 and shuttle have played like 10 games. i would say it's
1) stork 2) bisu 3) best + movie 4) kal
I have to horribly disagree with you on putting kal below best. You must not have watched Kal's recent PvPs vs Stork and Gosl[flying]. He showed Gosl whats what and he had a very tight game vs. Stork where as Stork just dismembered Best. based on recent games, there is no way you can support best's pvp>Kal.
On December 15 2009 08:18 OneOther wrote: 1) stork 2) bisu 3) best + movie 4) kal
That's being VERY generous to Best. Look at his PvP record. The last time he beat anyone notable was Stork, EIGHT months ago. In all of 2009 he's gone 4-8, with that win against Stork being the only really noteworthy win.
While an 8-8 record in 2009 doesn't look stellar for Movie, he's won 7 of his last 8. Certainly at least in current form, Movie is better than Best by quite a bit.
Might wanna give some credit to Violet's PvP. 68% winrate and, since his break out, has only lost 2 games -- one to Movie who he's also beaten before, and one to Guemchi's DTs.
He doesn't play the dragons very often but he also has that one dominating win over PvP godmode Bisu which only Stork seemed able to crack as well.
Wow just watched turn vs Bisu on wfbrood and damn how was he able to do that attack? Skipped a bit of the start of the match, so I assume no ebay, academy, but did he also cut scvs in order to do that attack?
That was just sick game, if Turn had won the game then it would have been perfect. Though a come back is exciting too. I'm really glad it was in the recommended games.
The Bisu vs Stork game was also great, Stork's zealots were all over the place.
On December 15 2009 14:16 Avidkeystamper wrote: You're not a Stork hater, but you are either bad at evaluating skill or don't watch enough Starcraft to be able to make a good evaluation.
On December 15 2009 13:54 lyhb wrote: the best protoss right now is bisu
no clue why people are hyping stork so much...
and dont call me a stork hater, i like stork more than bisu. actually i dont even like bisu
Because Stork is currently looking better than Bisu in all 3 matchups.
Also Stork is currently in one more starleague than Bisu.
bisu: 6-4 last 10 games
stork: 5-5 last 10 games
looking better? lmao! man, these dickriders crack me up
well shine knocked out bisu... if stork wins the set then you can bump the post but for now 'plsssss'
Stork: Out of the MSL but still in OSL Bisu: Out of both MSL and OSL
Stork: Silver at IeSF Bisu: Copper at IeSF
Stork crushed Bisu at the proleague on 12/14.
No sir. Your ignorance crack everyone up.
not to mention wcg where stork went 1-2 vs Jaedong and bisu got absolutely raped 0-2 and also bisu hasn't been playing any really good players recently...compared to stork who just took down flash
Not to mention Stork had a 10 game winning streak before that. Worst loss to Hyun, hero, Sea, Canata, and Movie are decent PvP. Bisu lost to Guemchi, Secret, Bogus, a Bo3 to Shine, and Stork. And almost lost to Turn. Plz, get real.
On December 15 2009 13:54 lyhb wrote: the best protoss right now is bisu
no clue why people are hyping stork so much...
and dont call me a stork hater, i like stork more than bisu. actually i dont even like bisu
Because Stork is currently looking better than Bisu in all 3 matchups.
Also Stork is currently in one more starleague than Bisu.
bisu: 6-4 last 10 games
stork: 5-5 last 10 games
looking better? lmao! man, these dickriders crack me up
well shine knocked out bisu... if stork wins the set then you can bump the post but for now 'plsssss'
Lets look at it this way, stork is 15 - 5 in the last 20 games
bisu is 12 - 8.
Anything further than 20 games is a bit unreliable since most of the 20+ games were before 09 - 10 pl season started
annnnd stork is still in a starleague
Stork lost to: Hyun, hero, Sea, Canata, and Movie hyun is looking pretty hot he just beat flash hero is good at pvz sea is beasting it right now canata has a decent tvp movie has a decent pvp
On December 15 2009 13:54 lyhb wrote: the best protoss right now is bisu
no clue why people are hyping stork so much...
and dont call me a stork hater, i like stork more than bisu. actually i dont even like bisu
Because Stork is currently looking better than Bisu in all 3 matchups.
Also Stork is currently in one more starleague than Bisu.
bisu: 6-4 last 10 games
stork: 5-5 last 10 games
looking better? lmao! man, these dickriders crack me up
well shine knocked out bisu... if stork wins the set then you can bump the post but for now 'plsssss'
Stork: Out of the MSL but still in OSL Bisu: Out of both MSL and OSL
Stork: Silver at IeSF Bisu: Copper at IeSF
Stork crushed Bisu at the proleague on 12/14.
No sir. Your ignorance crack everyone up.
stork has not beaten shine (the guy who ousted bisu from osl) so dont give me that crap
and bisu happened to face jd in semi finals unlike stork who faced pj... so dont give me that crap either
stork crushes bisu? that was nothing but a BO win... bisu opted for cheese while stork opted for mid/late game play. after defending the cheese it was pretty much over... another crap
On December 15 2009 15:00 Avidkeystamper wrote: Not to mention Stork had a 10 game winning streak before that. Worst loss to Hyun, hero, Sea, Canata, and Movie are decent PvP. Bisu lost to Guemchi, Secret, Bogus, a Bo3 to Shine, and Stork. And almost lost to Turn. Plz, get real.
and bisu had a 12 streak before so your point?
bisu ranked 2 in kespa while stork in 11th bisu ranked 3 in tl while stork in 5th bisu ranked 3 in elo while stork 4th
you see the pattern there?
i have facts to back my shit up, you otoh are just dickriding the hype
Stopping cheese is just a proof of a better player. And who the fuck cares if stork hasn't played shine yet, hes just doing so much better than bisu. Bisu's recent games have been so shaky. He barely beat hydra the other day. Come on, he BARELY beat hydra.
Your facts include things that are relatively unreliable on the short run. Kespa and elo doesn't fluctuate that much in such a short amount of time. The fact is that stork is playing better than bisu in this short amount of time.
lyhb what are you doing picking fights on both the SKT vs KHAN thread and KT vs MBC thread? Voicing opinions is ok but you're past voicing and pretty much trolling... I thought TL had moderators?
On December 15 2009 15:22 OpticalShot wrote: lyhb what are you doing picking fights on both the SKT vs KHAN thread and KT vs MBC thread? Voicing opinions is ok but you're past voicing and pretty much trolling... I thought TL had moderators?
This. Someone needs to report this guy for trolling.
On December 15 2009 13:54 lyhb wrote: the best protoss right now is bisu
no clue why people are hyping stork so much...
and dont call me a stork hater, i like stork more than bisu. actually i dont even like bisu
Because Stork is currently looking better than Bisu in all 3 matchups.
Also Stork is currently in one more starleague than Bisu.
bisu: 6-4 last 10 games
stork: 5-5 last 10 games
looking better? lmao! man, these dickriders crack me up
well shine knocked out bisu... if stork wins the set then you can bump the post but for now 'plsssss'
Lets look at it this way, stork is 15 - 5 in the last 20 games
bisu is 12 - 8.
Anything further than 20 games is a bit unreliable since most of the 20+ games were before 09 - 10 pl season started
annnnd stork is still in a starleague
Stork lost to: Hyun, hero, Sea, Canata, and Movie hyun is looking pretty hot he just beat flash hero is good at pvz sea is beasting it right now canata has a decent tvp movie has a decent pvp
we can look at it this way too... further from start to current
bisu 64% all time, 3 msl
stork 60% all time, 1 osl
and i could break down the 'quality/substance' of their current wins but i know you would not stomach it...
On December 15 2009 13:54 lyhb wrote: the best protoss right now is bisu
no clue why people are hyping stork so much...
and dont call me a stork hater, i like stork more than bisu. actually i dont even like bisu
Because Stork is currently looking better than Bisu in all 3 matchups.
Also Stork is currently in one more starleague than Bisu.
bisu: 6-4 last 10 games
stork: 5-5 last 10 games
looking better? lmao! man, these dickriders crack me up
well shine knocked out bisu... if stork wins the set then you can bump the post but for now 'plsssss'
Lets look at it this way, stork is 15 - 5 in the last 20 games
bisu is 12 - 8.
Anything further than 20 games is a bit unreliable since most of the 20+ games were before 09 - 10 pl season started
annnnd stork is still in a starleague
Stork lost to: Hyun, hero, Sea, Canata, and Movie hyun is looking pretty hot he just beat flash hero is good at pvz sea is beasting it right now canata has a decent tvp movie has a decent pvp
we can look at it this way too... further from start to current
bisu 64% all time, 3 msl
stork 60% all time, 1 osl
and i could break down the 'quality/substance' of their current wins but i know you would not stomach it...
No don't worry. Please start breaking down the 'quality/substance' of their current wins.
And we're discussing whos better right now, not in a lifetime dumbass.
On December 15 2009 15:21 MuffinDude wrote: Stopping cheese is just a proof of a better player. And who the fuck cares if stork hasn't played shine yet, hes just doing so much better than bisu. Bisu's recent games have been so shaky. He barely beat hydra the other day. Come on, he BARELY beat hydra.
Your facts include things that are relatively unreliable on the short run. Kespa and elo doesn't fluctuate that much in such a short amount of time. The fact is that stork is playing better than bisu in this short amount of time.
stopping cheese? are you kidding me? did you see what stork looked like after hyun cheesed him out?
stork doing so much better than bisu? again bisu 6-4 last 10 while stork at 5-5 last 10... facts only pls and none of that hype crap
he barely beat hydra? barely? are you fu*king kidding me? and people critisize me for 'flaming'.... map was zerg break ridge and all i saw was manlots ripping the shit out of everything...
On December 15 2009 15:20 Avidkeystamper wrote: Well, there went your last chance at a salvageable reputation.
so you dislike a person just because they disagree with your views? typical
Hehehe, this is all so funny because it actually sounds like you believe what you're spewing out of your keyboard. Did you even watch their recent games?
On December 15 2009 15:00 Avidkeystamper wrote: Not to mention Stork had a 10 game winning streak before that. Worst loss to Hyun, hero, Sea, Canata, and Movie are decent PvP. Bisu lost to Guemchi, Secret, Bogus, a Bo3 to Shine, and Stork. And almost lost to Turn. Plz, get real.
We're talking about whos the better player at the moment yes?
Your facts include things that are relatively unreliable on the short run. Kespa and elo doesn't fluctuate that much in such a short amount of time. The fact is that stork is playing better than bisu in this short amount of time.
Stork also has a 15 - 5 to bisu's 12 - 8 since about the start of 09-10 pl season. Stork has the better record right now in this short period of time.
On December 15 2009 15:40 De4ngus wrote: Ban this retard, please.
EDIT: Also, whats with this kid and "dickriders?" In BOTH threads.
On December 15 2009 15:22 OpticalShot wrote: lyhb what are you doing picking fights on both the SKT vs KHAN thread and KT vs MBC thread? Voicing opinions is ok but you're past voicing and pretty much trolling... I thought TL had moderators?
im voicing facts and you call it trolling? and now youre hinting mods to ban me? lmao!
id ont think i have crossed the line or have been trolling, if the mods think i do then they can take actions however they like. its their property
but you gotta remember this is the internet... im not here to make everyone happy like you clearly are
On December 15 2009 15:22 OpticalShot wrote: lyhb what are you doing picking fights on both the SKT vs KHAN thread and KT vs MBC thread? Voicing opinions is ok but you're past voicing and pretty much trolling... I thought TL had moderators?
im voicing facts and you call it trolling? and now youre hinting mods to ban me? lmao!
id ont think i have crossed the line or have been trolling, if the mods think i do then they can take actions however they like. its their property
but you gotta remember this is the internet... im not here to make everyone happy like you clearly are
On December 15 2009 13:54 lyhb wrote: the best protoss right now is bisu
no clue why people are hyping stork so much...
and dont call me a stork hater, i like stork more than bisu. actually i dont even like bisu
Because Stork is currently looking better than Bisu in all 3 matchups.
Also Stork is currently in one more starleague than Bisu.
bisu: 6-4 last 10 games
stork: 5-5 last 10 games
looking better? lmao! man, these dickriders crack me up
well shine knocked out bisu... if stork wins the set then you can bump the post but for now 'plsssss'
Lets look at it this way, stork is 15 - 5 in the last 20 games
bisu is 12 - 8.
Anything further than 20 games is a bit unreliable since most of the 20+ games were before 09 - 10 pl season started
annnnd stork is still in a starleague
Stork lost to: Hyun, hero, Sea, Canata, and Movie hyun is looking pretty hot he just beat flash hero is good at pvz sea is beasting it right now canata has a decent tvp movie has a decent pvp
we can look at it this way too... further from start to current
bisu 64% all time, 3 msl
stork 60% all time, 1 osl
and i could break down the 'quality/substance' of their current wins but i know you would not stomach it...
No don't worry. Please start breaking down the 'quality/substance' of their current wins.
And we're discussing whos better right now, not in a lifetime dumbass.
..i said last 10 games, then you said last 20 games to 1 up me on the argument... i went back further to level the playing field :d
On December 15 2009 13:54 lyhb wrote: the best protoss right now is bisu
no clue why people are hyping stork so much...
and dont call me a stork hater, i like stork more than bisu. actually i dont even like bisu
Because Stork is currently looking better than Bisu in all 3 matchups.
Also Stork is currently in one more starleague than Bisu.
bisu: 6-4 last 10 games
stork: 5-5 last 10 games
looking better? lmao! man, these dickriders crack me up
well shine knocked out bisu... if stork wins the set then you can bump the post but for now 'plsssss'
Lets look at it this way, stork is 15 - 5 in the last 20 games
bisu is 12 - 8.
Anything further than 20 games is a bit unreliable since most of the 20+ games were before 09 - 10 pl season started
annnnd stork is still in a starleague
Stork lost to: Hyun, hero, Sea, Canata, and Movie hyun is looking pretty hot he just beat flash hero is good at pvz sea is beasting it right now canata has a decent tvp movie has a decent pvp
we can look at it this way too... further from start to current
bisu 64% all time, 3 msl
stork 60% all time, 1 osl
and i could break down the 'quality/substance' of their current wins but i know you would not stomach it...
No don't worry. Please start breaking down the 'quality/substance' of their current wins.
And we're discussing whos better right now, not in a lifetime dumbass.
..i said last 10 games, then you said last 20 games to 1 up me on the argument... i went back further to level the playing field :d
Last 20 games is pretty relevant to whos playing better right now. Thats about when osl, msl, and pl started.
On December 15 2009 15:20 Avidkeystamper wrote: Well, there went your last chance at a salvageable reputation.
so you dislike a person just because they disagree with your views? typical
Hehehe, this is all so funny because it actually sounds like you believe what you're spewing out of your keyboard. Did you even watch their recent games?
man why yall nerd raging on me :d
ok i give up stork the bonjwa better than bisu... you win, happy now
According to your facts, if stork wins one more game, he will have a 6-4 record, putting him on equal footing with bisu all of the sudden. Doesn't that sound stupid.
On December 15 2009 15:40 De4ngus wrote: Ban this retard, please.
EDIT: Also, whats with this kid and "dickriders?" In BOTH threads.
Also Flashtards, akin to 4chan.
see you cant back your shit up at all and now you resort to this? lmao!
i actually had to google 4chan since i had no clue what you were talking about...
to set the record straight, 'flashtards/dickriders/nuthugger' is not related to anime (4chan?)... im a boxing forumer and those words are frequented. ie. pactards = pacquiao dickriders/nuthuggers
but i do watch anime (4chan?)... probaly not your thing there big-american-boy but i dont give a shit
On December 15 2009 15:22 OpticalShot wrote: lyhb what are you doing picking fights on both the SKT vs KHAN thread and KT vs MBC thread? Voicing opinions is ok but you're past voicing and pretty much trolling... I thought TL had moderators?
im voicing facts and you call it trolling? and now youre hinting mods to ban me? lmao!
id ont think i have crossed the line or have been trolling, if the mods think i do then they can take actions however they like. its their property
but you gotta remember this is the internet... im not here to make everyone happy like you clearly are
You're clearly making everyone here unhappy.
not every one, just certain a certain bunch and some :d
On December 15 2009 15:37 lyhb wrote: my facts are unreliable? kespa/tl/elo unreliable?
Let me tell you what is reliable, your--no, must resist urge to flame idiocy.
On December 15 2009 15:40 De4ngus wrote: Ban this retard, please.
EDIT: Also, whats with this kid and "dickriders?" In BOTH threads.
Also Flashtards, akin to 4chan.
see you cant back your shit up at all and now you resort to this? lmao!
i actually had to google 4chan since i had no clue what you were talking about...
to set the record straight, 'flashtards/dickriders/nuthugger' is not related to anime (4chan?)... im a boxing forumer and those words are frequented. ie. pactards = pacquiao dickriders/nuthuggers
but i do watch anime (4chan?)... probaly not your thing there big-american-boy but i dont give a shit
I'm not even attempting to argue with you. Just remarking how funny this situation is.
On December 15 2009 15:40 De4ngus wrote: Ban this retard, please.
EDIT: Also, whats with this kid and "dickriders?" In BOTH threads.
all the khan fans asking the mods to ban me... damn i must have hit a nerve haha
did not figure you guys to be the sensitive bunch
again i was speaking my mind, backed with facts. i do apologize if i offended your views in a way or two :d
It seems pretty desperate of you to dig up "facts" (yes, they are facts) to try to poke and tear at different people's viewpoints. You went for last ten games, someone went for last 20, then you go for lifetime percentages and titles... Sure, some numbers work in you favour and some don't, ain't it?
Speaking your mind in acceptable manner is fine, but I don't think mashing in "boxing-forum-style" nicknames are going to help people just take your opinions as they are. There's a big blurb (TL Commandments) that you *should* have read when you signed up.
You're also posting your opinions in a LR thread, where majority of the comments come from people that watched it on a stream, or at least a vod afterwards. It's not likely that your "factual numbers" are going to overwhelm the impression people got from watching the actual game.
Oh, and apology accepted.
*edit: read above that you don't know 4chan but you're a boxing forumer, so I switched "4chan-style" term for "boxing-forum-style".
On December 15 2009 15:22 OpticalShot wrote: lyhb what are you doing picking fights on both the SKT vs KHAN thread and KT vs MBC thread? Voicing opinions is ok but you're past voicing and pretty much trolling... I thought TL had moderators?
im voicing facts and you call it trolling? and now youre hinting mods to ban me? lmao!
id ont think i have crossed the line or have been trolling, if the mods think i do then they can take actions however they like. its their property
but you gotta remember this is the internet... im not here to make everyone happy like you clearly are
You're clearly making everyone here unhappy.
not every one, just certain a certain bunch and some :d
I think my favorite thing about you is that you were arguing that Flash's winstreak didn't really count because he wasn't playing good players, and now you're arguing that Bisu>Stork because of their record in their last 10 games(in which Stork has, y'know, played more good players than Bisu).
On December 15 2009 15:57 MuffinDude wrote: According to your facts, if stork wins one more game, he will have a 6-4 record, putting him on equal footing with bisu all of the sudden. Doesn't that sound stupid.
there is the word 'if'... again not a fact
'if' he does win thou he'd be 6-5 in the last 11 and 'if' bisu losses his next game hed be in the same footing...
back then till now, bisu is the better protoss
i think he got the award of best protoss like last week :d
On December 15 2009 15:57 MuffinDude wrote: According to your facts, if stork wins one more game, he will have a 6-4 record, putting him on equal footing with bisu all of the sudden. Doesn't that sound stupid.
there is the word 'if'... again not a fact
'if' he does win thou he'd be 6-5 in the last 11 and 'if' bisu losses his next game hed be in the same footing...
back then till now, bisu is the better protoss
i think he got the award of best protoss like last week :d
The fact that stork could go from being worse than bisu and then be on equal footing with bisu overnight is a stupid concept in general.
Bisu go the best protoss award because he played well for the duration of 08-09 pl. He is playing like crap right now compared to his old standards.
Guys, guys, you're missing something very obvious here. Saint is 7-3 in his last ten, he's playing better than both Stork AND Bisu. Or if being Zerg somehow nullifies that point, then look at Kal and Violet.
On December 15 2009 15:40 De4ngus wrote: Ban this retard, please.
EDIT: Also, whats with this kid and "dickriders?" In BOTH threads.
all the khan fans asking the mods to ban me... damn i must have hit a nerve haha
did not figure you guys to be the sensitive bunch
again i was speaking my mind, backed with facts. i do apologize if i offended your views in a way or two :d
It seems pretty desperate of you to dig up "facts" (yes, they are facts) to try to poke and tear at different people's viewpoints. You went for last ten games, someone went for last 20, then you go for lifetime percentages and titles... Sure, some numbers work in you favour and some don't, ain't it?
Speaking your mind in acceptable manner is fine, but I don't think mashing in "boxing-forum-style" nicknames are going to help people just take your opinions as they are. There's a big blurb (TL Commandments) that you *should* have read when you signed up.
You're also posting your opinions in a LR thread, where majority of the comments come from people that watched it on a stream, or at least a vod afterwards. It's not likely that your "factual numbers" are going to overwhelm the impression people got from watching the actual game.
Oh, and apology accepted.
*edit: read above that you don't know 4chan but you're a boxing forumer, so I switched "4chan-style" term for "boxing-forum-style".
the most significant 'numbers' work in my favor, that is all that matters
and i dont think i've been uncivil about anything really, not sure why im getting all the flak. some people here are just a little sensitive i guess... well to be fair im new so i guess i have to adjust to the pace over here
im here to discuss really and have a bit of fun here and there :d
On December 15 2009 16:22 Avidkeystamper wrote: Guys, guys, you're missing something very obvious here. Saint is 7-3 in his last ten, he's playing better than both Stork AND Bisu. Or if being Zerg somehow nullifies that point, then look at Kal and Violet.
Heyyyyy.. Jangbi has a 6-4 record too! Hes better than stork and as good as bisu! Oh look! Nal_ra has a 5-5 record for the last 10 games. He must be as good as stork right now.
On December 15 2009 15:22 OpticalShot wrote: lyhb what are you doing picking fights on both the SKT vs KHAN thread and KT vs MBC thread? Voicing opinions is ok but you're past voicing and pretty much trolling... I thought TL had moderators?
im voicing facts and you call it trolling? and now youre hinting mods to ban me? lmao!
id ont think i have crossed the line or have been trolling, if the mods think i do then they can take actions however they like. its their property
but you gotta remember this is the internet... im not here to make everyone happy like you clearly are
You're clearly making everyone here unhappy.
not every one, just certain a certain bunch and some :d
I think my favorite thing about you is that you were arguing that Flash's winstreak didn't really count because he wasn't playing good players, and now you're arguing that Bisu>Stork because of their record in their last 10 games(in which Stork has, y'know, played more good players than Bisu).
you gotta give credit to me thou, if it werent for me... both threads would have died and not gained the extra attention/pages :d
On December 15 2009 15:57 MuffinDude wrote: According to your facts, if stork wins one more game, he will have a 6-4 record, putting him on equal footing with bisu all of the sudden. Doesn't that sound stupid.
there is the word 'if'... again not a fact
'if' he does win thou he'd be 6-5 in the last 11 and 'if' bisu losses his next game hed be in the same footing...
back then till now, bisu is the better protoss
i think he got the award of best protoss like last week :d
The fact that stork could go from being worse than bisu and then be on equal footing with bisu overnight is a stupid concept in general.
Bisu go the best protoss award because he played well for the duration of 08-09 pl. He is playing like crap right now compared to his old standards.
some dude was saying that stork is doing way better than bisu atm so i brought up their last 10 games...
On December 15 2009 15:57 MuffinDude wrote: According to your facts, if stork wins one more game, he will have a 6-4 record, putting him on equal footing with bisu all of the sudden. Doesn't that sound stupid.
there is the word 'if'... again not a fact
'if' he does win thou he'd be 6-5 in the last 11 and 'if' bisu losses his next game hed be in the same footing...
back then till now, bisu is the better protoss
i think he got the award of best protoss like last week :d
The fact that stork could go from being worse than bisu and then be on equal footing with bisu overnight is a stupid concept in general.
Bisu go the best protoss award because he played well for the duration of 08-09 pl. He is playing like crap right now compared to his old standards.
some dude was saying that stork is doing way better than bisu atm so i brought up their last 10 games...
Yes, by this standard, kal and violet is better than bisu, jangbi, and stork, while jangbi is as good as bisu. Isn't that retarded.
On December 15 2009 16:22 Avidkeystamper wrote: Guys, guys, you're missing something very obvious here. Saint is 7-3 in his last ten, he's playing better than both Stork AND Bisu. Or if being Zerg somehow nullifies that point, then look at Kal and Violet.
i dont think you remember why i made the analogy in the fist place
On December 15 2009 15:57 MuffinDude wrote: According to your facts, if stork wins one more game, he will have a 6-4 record, putting him on equal footing with bisu all of the sudden. Doesn't that sound stupid.
there is the word 'if'... again not a fact
'if' he does win thou he'd be 6-5 in the last 11 and 'if' bisu losses his next game hed be in the same footing...
back then till now, bisu is the better protoss
i think he got the award of best protoss like last week :d
The fact that stork could go from being worse than bisu and then be on equal footing with bisu overnight is a stupid concept in general.
Bisu go the best protoss award because he played well for the duration of 08-09 pl. He is playing like crap right now compared to his old standards.
some dude was saying that stork is doing way better than bisu atm so i brought up their last 10 games...
Yes, by this standard, kal and violet is better than bisu, jangbi, and stork, while jangbi is as good as bisu. Isn't that retarded.
not sure if you get the context of what was said...
On December 15 2009 16:22 Avidkeystamper wrote: Guys, guys, you're missing something very obvious here. Saint is 7-3 in his last ten, he's playing better than both Stork AND Bisu. Or if being Zerg somehow nullifies that point, then look at Kal and Violet.
i dont think you remember why i made the analogy in the fist place
On December 15 2009 13:54 lyhb wrote: the best protoss right now is bisu
no clue why people are hyping stork so much...
and dont call me a stork hater, i like stork more than bisu. actually i dont even like bisu
Because Stork is currently looking better than Bisu in all 3 matchups.
Also Stork is currently in one more starleague than Bisu.
bisu: 6-4 last 10 games
stork: 5-5 last 10 games
looking better? lmao! man, these dickriders crack me up
well shine knocked out bisu... if stork wins the set then you can bump the post but for now 'plsssss'
Your first rebuttal to the fact that Bisu looking better than stork is because he has a better record in his last ten. So I used the same line of reasoning you did, to compare them to Saint, Violet, and Kal. I don't see a problem here. That's not an analogy btw.
How about everyone who's saying that Bisu is playing comparably to Stork actually go WATCH those last 10 games? It's not just about statistics, but the quality of games they're putting out.
Stork has showed solid play in his last 10 games. Bisu has been inconsistent. He's shown some genius, but has also lost on some pretty nooby mistakes.
Stork v Best - pure rape. There's no other way to put it. Stork v Kwanro - dominant play by Stork. Was a good long game to be sure, but Stork won it in convincing form. Stork v Hero - two masters of the matchup. Solid reaver usage by Stork. Stork v Flash - the extremely high level of play in this game doesn't need to be emphasized. Stork v Movie - Yes, Stork lost, but both players played that game well.
Bisu v TurN - Great game, but let's be realistic: in the hands of a more experienced Terran, Bisu would not have been let back into that game. Bisu v Hydra - Some sloppy play by Bisu early on, the only reason he actually won it is because Hydra is bad and played even more sloppily as the game progressed. Bisu v Guemchi - Lost in the most stupid and careless way possible. Why would you load 2 reavers into near-dead shuttle AND LEAVE IT THERE? Bisu v HakSoo - arguably the worst PvP I've seen Bisu play in the last 2 years.
As much of a Bisu fan as I am, Bisu is nowhere in shape to compare to Stork right now. Their records are similar, but you have to look at the players they've played. HakSoo? Guemchi? Bogus? The worst loss on Stork's list is to Hyun, who has also taken down Flash once and Calm twice in the last month. Stork has played strong players in the last month and, while dropping a few games, has come out ahead against some of the better ones. Bisu has played against players that range between mediocre and downright terrible and STILL loses half the games?
stork expects dt after scouting 2 zealots at bisu's nat,i think this situation always had been done in training, he expanded and add 3 gates right after first scouting probe died, very good timing. Any robotics or dt build will fail.
It really breaks my heart to see this thread, which will forever enshrine this brutal drumming that Stork gave Bisu, tarnished by the dog feces that is lybh.
Please, show some respect to the monumental talent that is Stork "The Commander Dino Toss" Song Byung Goo and just go talk to the squirrels (or moose in Canada) about your feelings and stop ruining this thread. We don't care what you think of Bisu or Stork or who is better. Not when you're so fixated on campaigning against dick-riding. I happen to like dick-riding very much, especially when it's Stork's. Thanks.
man, I'm pretty sure the only reason Turn lost that was because he sieged his tanks. If he had just pushed in with that midgame force, I'm pretty sure he would have won.
On December 16 2009 00:44 Mekhami wrote: By the 'quality of games' standard, Movie is the best protoss alive right now.
I won't argue that his PvZ is up there, but you've really got a case to make for his PvT. Canata v Movie was a freaking AWFUL game, and he hasn't played enough PvT recently to redeem that kind of bad decision-making.
If it weren't for his PvT, that analysis would basically be correct, so I don't see how this is an argument against the "quality of play" analysis.
On December 15 2009 23:43 StorkHwaiting wrote: It really breaks my heart to see this thread, which will forever enshrine this brutal drumming that Stork gave Bisu, tarnished by the dog feces that is lybh.
Please, show some respect to the monumental talent that is Stork "The Commander Dino Toss" Song Byung Goo and just go talk to the squirrels (or moose in Canada) about your feelings and stop ruining this thread. We don't care what you think of Bisu or Stork or who is better. Not when you're so fixated on campaigning against dick-riding. I happen to like dick-riding very much, especially when it's Stork's. Thanks.
Sincerely, Stork Fanboy
lol @ '...dog feces that is lyhb'/ '...i like dick riding very much'
must be butthurt from all the dickriding youve been doing? lmao!
'talk to squirrels and moose....' listen to yourself. i mean just because you cant come up with a legitimate argument does not mean you resort to shit like these
On December 16 2009 02:54 lyhb wrote: just telling it like it is
Yes, spouting the same blind statistics while continually ignoring evaluations of both the opponents played and the quality of play in the games you bring up is "telling it like it is".
On December 16 2009 02:20 SuperArc wrote: Bisu is still doing better in PL. Stork has OSL tho. And you can hardly count WCG since Bisu had the bad luck of encountering JD before the finals.
He's statistically doing better, but that's also because Stork basically had to carry his team through round 1--the general quality of players he faced was much higher. Bisu basically spent the first half of R1 beating crappy players and avoiding his weak matchup.
In regards to WCG, you have to look again, at how the games played out, not just the results. Stork held out through some long, strong games against Jaedong, that made for a memorable set. Bisu...just got raped. Twice. Both his games ended before they even got anywhere. Nowhere in either of Bisu's games did it even look like he even had a shot at winning.
Khan's probably winning because I didn't pick my usual Stork + JangBi in my FPL. As a true fan, if that's how it is, I'm willing to sacrifice an entire year of FPL and Liquibet as long as Khan keeps on winning!
On December 16 2009 04:48 ImGoNNaLoSeNoW wrote: It's great to see SKT1 losing & fans crying for their Bisu<3
It's great because that's not actually what's happening. The Khan fan, of all people, is saying that Bisu is still better than Stork, and everyone, SKT fans included, are telling him he's deluded.
Just watched the series, it was just friggin awesome! I've never seen Turn play before, but it was certainly an impressive showcase of his skills. Hopefully we'll see more of him and see if that was simply a fluke or another fine player to Samsung's terran lineup.
On December 16 2009 04:48 ImGoNNaLoSeNoW wrote: It's great to see SKT1 losing & fans crying for their Bisu<3
It's great because that's not actually what's happening. The Khan fan, of all people, is saying that Bisu is still better than Stork, and everyone, SKT fans included, are telling him he's deluded.
On December 16 2009 07:42 Gangrel wrote: Wow, stork wins 2 games and everyone thinks he's bisu
cool it down guys, Bisu won the best protoss award, he's still your man to go for the protoss race.
With that:
On December 14 2009 21:14 InFiNitY[pG] wrote: yo bisu, I know you just won best Protoss of the year and I'm a let you finish, but stork has one of the best protoss of ALL TIME
On December 16 2009 04:48 ImGoNNaLoSeNoW wrote: It's great to see SKT1 losing & fans crying for their Bisu<3
It's great because that's not actually what's happening. The Khan fan, of all people, is saying that Bisu is still better than Stork, and everyone, SKT fans included, are telling him he's deluded.
He's not a Khan fan at all. The guy just prefaced his statements with that disclaimer to further enhance his trollability.
in a very decisive manner, yeah, he's better than Bisu atm.
Bisu beat Flash in a Bo3 very convincingly as well not to long ago at WCG, where he also 2-0'd Stork. One game doesnt decide much of anything wow holy shit, just started reading the crap lynb posted, plz disregard so we can drop this now
in a very decisive manner, yeah, he's better than Bisu atm.
Bisu beat Flash in a Bo3 very convincingly as well not to long ago at WCG, where he also 2-0'd Stork. One game doesnt decide much of anything
This was when Bisu was still dominant... winning WCG Korea. Fast forward 3-4 months later, and he's out of the OSL/MSL.
Heck, Bisu even thinks that he's not playing that well. Go watch the MSL selection. I think it's Firefist who says that he wants to play Bisu, who he thinks is the best PvZ player in the world. Bisu replies that he's flattered, but he thinks he's not playing that well right now.
Stork is definitely the best hope for Protoss to bring home a gold. I'm a huge Bisu fan but Stork is better in all the matchups.
in a very decisive manner, yeah, he's better than Bisu atm.
Bisu beat Flash in a Bo3 very convincingly as well not to long ago at WCG, where he also 2-0'd Stork. One game doesnt decide much of anything
This was when Bisu was still dominant... winning WCG Korea. Fast forward 3-4 months later, and he's out of the OSL/MSL.
Heck, Bisu even thinks that he's not playing that well. Go watch the MSL selection. I think it's Firefist who says that he wants to play Bisu, who he thinks is the best PvZ player in the world. Bisu replies that he's flattered, but he thinks he's not playing that well right now.
Stork is definitely the best hope for Protoss to bring home a gold. I'm a huge Bisu fan but Stork is better in all the matchups.
Gah >< you had to quote me 5 seconds before i edited my statement didnt you? I read that as a lifetime Stork>Bisu so i disagreed. plz disregard from now on
I used to like Bisu and not Stork for a very long time, until I've seen Stork play some PvT about 3 months ago, since then this guy doesn't stop to amaze me. Since I am from Aiur I wish both guys win as much as possible, and between the two Stork > Bisu is very satisfying at the moment.
On December 16 2009 14:42 lyhb wrote: i just think bisu is the better of the two then and now, not sure why im gettin so much flak for speaking my mind
no need to overeact, really
It's your attitude. You spout statistics like they're gospel, then fall back on the "it's only my opinion" argument when people call bullshit on it.
On December 16 2009 14:42 lyhb wrote: i just think bisu is the better of the two then and now, not sure why im gettin so much flak for speaking my mind
no need to overeact, really
It's your attitude. You spout statistics like they're gospel, then fall back on the "it's only my opinion" argument when people call bullshit on it.
On December 16 2009 14:42 lyhb wrote: i just think bisu is the better of the two then and now, not sure why im gettin so much flak for speaking my mind
no need to overeact, really
It's your attitude. You spout statistics like they're gospel, then fall back on the "it's only my opinion" argument when people call bullshit on it.
A fanboy on TL? SOUND THE ALARM!
Let me tell you, you seriously don't want to argue for this guy. Besides, ur being awfully inconsiderate of the entire situation.
On December 16 2009 14:42 lyhb wrote: i just think bisu is the better of the two then and now, not sure why im gettin so much flak for speaking my mind
no need to overeact, really
It's your attitude. You spout statistics like they're gospel, then fall back on the "it's only my opinion" argument when people call bullshit on it.
On December 15 2009 16:22 Avidkeystamper wrote: Guys, guys, you're missing something very obvious here. Saint is 7-3 in his last ten, he's playing better than both Stork AND Bisu. Or if being Zerg somehow nullifies that point, then look at Kal and Violet.
i dont think you remember why i made the analogy in the fist place
On December 15 2009 13:54 lyhb wrote: the best protoss right now is bisu
no clue why people are hyping stork so much...
and dont call me a stork hater, i like stork more than bisu. actually i dont even like bisu
Because Stork is currently looking better than Bisu in all 3 matchups.
Also Stork is currently in one more starleague than Bisu.
bisu: 6-4 last 10 games
stork: 5-5 last 10 games
looking better? lmao! man, these dickriders crack me up
well shine knocked out bisu... if stork wins the set then you can bump the post but for now 'plsssss'
Your first rebuttal to the fact that Bisu looking better than stork is because he has a better record in his last ten. So I used the same line of reasoning you did, to compare them to Saint, Violet, and Kal. I don't see a problem here. That's not an analogy btw.
And fucking read. You're losing. You're facts are irrelevant to the case. It sucks. You're a dumbass. Now would you please stfu.
On December 16 2009 16:01 lyhb wrote: i back my opinion with stats/facts....
Again, statistics are not the end-all-be-all. You've been rebutted on this point multiple times. In this particular instance, the statistics understate the difference in skill between these players, because the quality of opponents they've played is very different. Going 5-5 against good players is not the same as going 5-5 against bad players.
Watch the games you spout statistics about. Don't just pretend they played an equal sampling of opponents, and have played games of similar quality, because they haven't. You'd know that if you actually watched those games.
On December 16 2009 16:01 lyhb wrote: i back my opinion with stats/facts....
Again, statistics are not the end-all-be-all. You've been rebutted on this point multiple times. In this particular instance, the statistics understate the difference in skill between these players, because the quality of opponents they've played is very different. Going 5-5 against good players is not the same as going 5-5 against bad players.
No you're dumb, I went 9-1 on iCCup in my last 10 the other day so I'm automatically better than both of them. lyhb ftw!!11!
On December 16 2009 17:26 Illusion. wrote: STORK > Bisu
/Closed.
QFT
Stork was everywhere bisu... not so much
stork/bisu was like 12hatch/9pool...
Doesn't change the fact that bisu literally did nothing to try to get back into the game while stork kept up the pressure
Woah, don't agree with the guy when he's totally wrong. If there is an apt ZvZ comparison, it's 12 hatch vs 12 pool. And then the 12 pool player got a free drone kill from 12 hatch. Stork's advantage was minimal even before the shuttle snipe. And afterwards, Bisu actually rolled out with a larger army. If it wasn't for Stork holding the high ground and having faster reinforcements in that first engagement, this thread would've taken a whole different turn.
On December 17 2009 04:19 dukethegold wrote: I like how nobody remembers Bisu v.s. TurN after Stork v.s. Bisu.
started watching the kids play even in the pre matches in pl
the kid is very good and almost beat bisu imo if he had finished off the nexus at nat
I remember that Stork recently had two PvT games in a row where he went 12 nexus, lost it early, and then won easily. Those games baffled me. I'm not sure so much early aggression against Protoss is such a good idea. I hope it is, though, because that style was a lot of fun to watch.
On December 17 2009 04:19 dukethegold wrote: I like how nobody remembers Bisu v.s. TurN after Stork v.s. Bisu.
started watching the kids play even in the pre matches in pl
the kid is very good and almost beat bisu imo if he had finished off the nexus at nat
I remember that Stork recently had two PvT games in a row where he went 12 nexus, lost it early, and then won easily. Those games baffled me. I'm not sure so much early aggression against Protoss is such a good idea. I hope it is, though, because that style was a lot of fun to watch.
All the pros say the key to beating 12 nexus was to kill the probes. I think it was SKt1`s first proleague match this season where fantasy had his opponent 12 nexus him, lost nexus and lost and bisu 12 nexusèd, lose nexus and still won.
Both of them were talking about how keeping the probes alive was of vital importance and dont defend with the probes too much if there is a high risk that they die was really important to win with 12 nexus against early aggresion.
On December 16 2009 17:26 Illusion. wrote: STORK > Bisu
/Closed.
QFT
Stork was everywhere bisu... not so much
stork/bisu was like 12hatch/9pool...
Doesn't change the fact that bisu literally did nothing to try to get back into the game while stork kept up the pressure
Woah, don't agree with the guy when he's totally wrong. If there is an apt ZvZ comparison, it's 12 hatch vs 12 pool. And then the 12 pool player got a free drone kill from 12 hatch. Stork's advantage was minimal even before the shuttle snipe. And afterwards, Bisu actually rolled out with a larger army. If it wasn't for Stork holding the high ground and having faster reinforcements in that first engagement, this thread would've taken a whole different turn.
On December 17 2009 04:19 dukethegold wrote: I like how nobody remembers Bisu v.s. TurN after Stork v.s. Bisu.
started watching the kids play even in the pre matches in pl
the kid is very good and almost beat bisu imo if he had finished off the nexus at nat
I remember that Stork recently had two PvT games in a row where he went 12 nexus, lost it early, and then won easily. Those games baffled me. I'm not sure so much early aggression against Protoss is such a good idea. I hope it is, though, because that style was a lot of fun to watch.
All the pros say the key to beating 12 nexus was to kill the probes. I think it was SKt1`s first proleague match this season where fantasy had his opponent 12 nexus him, lost nexus and lost and bisu 12 nexusèd, lose nexus and still won.
Both of them were talking about how keeping the probes alive was of vital importance and dont defend with the probes too much if there is a high risk that they die was really important to win with 12 nexus against early aggresion.
Just watched the series today. They were all great games except Great vs Canata.
The best games for me were the Stork PvP matches. Most PvP usually have players just holding position outside of their opponent's base or high terrain, but Stork's play is different. Stork's multitasking was insane. He was attacking all over the map constantly. In the same night Stork defeated 2 of the greatest PvP players. Best use to be #1 PvP in the league while Bisu is the more recent.
Given that the last match was on Match Point, I guess that SKT1 was going to send Bisu. Sending Fantasy would be suicide since Samsung not only have 2 of the best protoss, but also the best terran killers. So it was either Stork or Jangbi. Stork is a better choice than Jangbi because Stork makes better decisions during the match whereas Jangbi goes on autopilot then get flustered if the opponent does something unorthodox.
Stork showed some intense micro and multitasking in both PvP's And against 2 of the strongest P's in history, thats saying something
It seemed as if Bisu and Stork had switched playing styles with Bisu landlocked and focusing on a large ground army and Stork concentrating on his harrassment
But game 3 Bisu vs TurN was a great game. Its a testament to Bisu's unwavering will to win and the emergance of TurN as the next terran on KHAN. I hope Bisu will kick out of his weird funk and get back on his high horse as the king of toss
Just because everyone (myself included) disagree with him, doesn't mean he deserves a ban. I don't think he's really broken any rules. Of course it's at the discretion of the MODERATORS and there is no doubt they have seen this thread so if he isn't banned already then just shut the fuck up and ignore him or continue to discuss things with him.
The thread is here to discuss this series of games so people need to stop saying it should die.
By the way I think Stork/Bisu are actually on equal playing fields... their strengths are too different to really say for sure who is the 'better' player. Stork is definitely PLAYING better right now, there's no doubt about that (well, after watching him vs Shine today I'm kind of doubting things) but that doesn't really mean that he's a better player than Bisu. They both have choked and have lost games against bad players and seen ups and downs. A three-week period of time can be no indication of skill o_O
On December 18 2009 21:50 LordWeird wrote: Just because everyone (myself included) disagree with him, doesn't mean he deserves a ban. I don't think he's really broken any rules. Of course it's at the discretion of the MODERATORS and there is no doubt they have seen this thread so if he isn't banned already then just shut the fuck up and ignore him or continue to discuss things with him.
The thread is here to discuss this series of games so people need to stop saying it should die.
By the way I think Stork/Bisu are actually on equal playing fields... their strengths are too different to really say for sure who is the 'better' player. Stork is definitely PLAYING better right now, there's no doubt about that (well, after watching him vs Shine today I'm kind of doubting things) but that doesn't really mean that he's a better player than Bisu. They both have choked and have lost games against bad players and seen ups and downs. A three-week period of time can be no indication of skill o_O
im trying to discuss and all i get in return are agressive/sarcastic remarks...
i just feel that bisu is still the best protoss, is it a crime to think that way? i dont get why people dont think that is a valid argument and get so pissy about it
even shine mentioned in the interview after stomping sotrk that he got lucky againts bisu and still think that he is the best protoss/pvz'er... get it a programmer thinks bisu is better and more of a threat than stork
On December 19 2009 02:19 lyhb wrote: im trying to discuss and all i get in return are agressive/sarcastic remarks...
i just feel that bisu is still the best protoss, is it a crime to think that way? i dont get why people dont think that is a valid argument and get so pissy about it
even shine mentioned in the interview after stomping sotrk that he got lucky againts bisu and still think that he is the best protoss/pvz'er... get it a programmer thinks bisu is better and more of a threat than stork
Your premise is fine. Your reasoning is flawed. Citing statistics that inherently are not equivalent does not prove your point. Assess the quality of the games they've played, and you'll probably get more reasonable debate.
Comparing the quality of the Stork v Shine set and Bisu v Shine set might be reasonable. Just make sure you don't get banned for spoiling stuff.
On December 18 2009 21:50 LordWeird wrote: Just because everyone (myself included) disagree with him, doesn't mean he deserves a ban. I don't think he's really broken any rules. Of course it's at the discretion of the MODERATORS and there is no doubt they have seen this thread so if he isn't banned already then just shut the fuck up and ignore him or continue to discuss things with him.
The thread is here to discuss this series of games so people need to stop saying it should die.
By the way I think Stork/Bisu are actually on equal playing fields... their strengths are too different to really say for sure who is the 'better' player. Stork is definitely PLAYING better right now, there's no doubt about that (well, after watching him vs Shine today I'm kind of doubting things) but that doesn't really mean that he's a better player than Bisu. They both have choked and have lost games against bad players and seen ups and downs. A three-week period of time can be no indication of skill o_O
im trying to discuss and all i get in return are agressive/sarcastic remarks...
i just feel that bisu is still the best protoss, is it a crime to think that way? i dont get why people dont think that is a valid argument and get so pissy about it
even shine mentioned in the interview after stomping sotrk that he got lucky againts bisu and still think that he is the best protoss/pvz'er... get it a programmer thinks bisu is better and more of a threat than stork
Maybe because you don't read? Maybe because you haven't watched stork's last 10 games and bisu's last 10 games? Bisu is terrible right now. Hes nowhere near where he was half a year ago.
On December 18 2009 21:50 LordWeird wrote: Just because everyone (myself included) disagree with him, doesn't mean he deserves a ban. I don't think he's really broken any rules. Of course it's at the discretion of the MODERATORS and there is no doubt they have seen this thread so if he isn't banned already then just shut the fuck up and ignore him or continue to discuss things with him.
The thread is here to discuss this series of games so people need to stop saying it should die.
By the way I think Stork/Bisu are actually on equal playing fields... their strengths are too different to really say for sure who is the 'better' player. Stork is definitely PLAYING better right now, there's no doubt about that (well, after watching him vs Shine today I'm kind of doubting things) but that doesn't really mean that he's a better player than Bisu. They both have choked and have lost games against bad players and seen ups and downs. A three-week period of time can be no indication of skill o_O
im trying to discuss and all i get in return are agressive/sarcastic remarks...
i just feel that bisu is still the best protoss, is it a crime to think that way? i dont get why people dont think that is a valid argument and get so pissy about it
even shine mentioned in the interview after stomping sotrk that he got lucky againts bisu and still think that he is the best protoss/pvz'er... get it a programmer thinks bisu is better and more of a threat than stork
Maybe because you don't read? Maybe because you haven't watched stork's last 10 games and bisu's last 10 games? Bisu is terrible right now. Hes nowhere near where he was half a year ago.
Terrible is a rather exaggerated statement. He may be terrible compared to his best, but he is by no means terrible overall.
I would still easily put him in the top 5 Protoss players. Keep in mind, even though he is losing to "mediocre Zergs," a lot of Protoss players aren't in much better condition.
To say that he is terrible would mean that he is on the same tier as players like Firebathero and Much. And I think that's just way too harsh.
On December 18 2009 21:50 LordWeird wrote: Just because everyone (myself included) disagree with him, doesn't mean he deserves a ban. I don't think he's really broken any rules. Of course it's at the discretion of the MODERATORS and there is no doubt they have seen this thread so if he isn't banned already then just shut the fuck up and ignore him or continue to discuss things with him.
The thread is here to discuss this series of games so people need to stop saying it should die.
By the way I think Stork/Bisu are actually on equal playing fields... their strengths are too different to really say for sure who is the 'better' player. Stork is definitely PLAYING better right now, there's no doubt about that (well, after watching him vs Shine today I'm kind of doubting things) but that doesn't really mean that he's a better player than Bisu. They both have choked and have lost games against bad players and seen ups and downs. A three-week period of time can be no indication of skill o_O
im trying to discuss and all i get in return are agressive/sarcastic remarks...
i just feel that bisu is still the best protoss, is it a crime to think that way? i dont get why people dont think that is a valid argument and get so pissy about it
even shine mentioned in the interview after stomping sotrk that he got lucky againts bisu and still think that he is the best protoss/pvz'er... get it a programmer thinks bisu is better and more of a threat than stork
Maybe because you don't read? Maybe because you haven't watched stork's last 10 games and bisu's last 10 games? Bisu is terrible right now. Hes nowhere near where he was half a year ago.
Terrible is a rather exaggerated statement. He may be terrible compared to his best, but he is by no means terrible overall.
I would still easily put him in the top 5 Protoss players. Keep in mind, even though he is losing to "mediocre Zergs," a lot of Protoss players aren't in much better condition.
To say that he is terrible would mean that he is on the same tier as players like Firebathero and Much. And I think that's just way too harsh.
He is terrible compared to his old standards. He used to be so imba. Now hes just any other protoss.
On December 19 2009 04:02 MuffinDude wrote: He is terrible compared to his old standards. He used to be so imba. Now hes just any other protoss.
I don't think terrible is the right word to use here. Inconsistent would be more appropriate. Terrible, to me, seems to say that he's incapable of producing good games, which, as has been shown, is not true. He's perfectly capable of playing better than anyone else, he's just equally capable of losing to trash players.
On December 16 2009 16:03 lyhb wrote: this is like me vs. all... and im still winning lol
On December 19 2009 15:12 lyhb wrote: again bisu just stomped shine who stomped stork
he stomped roro in ace as well
bisu is still the best protoss, i rest my case
Your logic is heavily flawed, not to mention your tone is arrogant and quite annoying. Just because player A beat B and B beat C, that does not mean player A beats C. Starcraft isn't quite as simple as you make it sound. There are so many factors involved and none of them with those players in the exact scenario that the other had to face.
Here is the TL 10 commandments. I highly suggest reading it if you haven't already done so.
On December 19 2009 15:12 lyhb wrote: again bisu just stomped shine who stomped stork
he stomped roro in ace as well
bisu is still the best protoss, i rest my case
Your logic is heavily flawed, not to mention your tone is arrogant and quite annoying. Just because player A beat B and B beat C, that does not mean player A beats C. Starcraft isn't quite as simple as you make it sound. There are so many factors involved and none of them with those players in the exact scenario that the other had to face.
Here is the TL 10 commandments. I highly suggest reading it if you haven't already done so.
player A beat player B and C (its called triangle theory btw lol)... hahahahah i win again
bisu is still the best protoss, just being real here
the argument 'bisu got own by a scrub zerg(shine)... stork is still in the osl...' is dead
stop trying to argue with him. He'll probably say that Bisu is 3 1/2 % ahead of stork which is such a huge statistical edge with that # of games played DX.
On December 16 2009 16:03 lyhb wrote: this is like me vs. all... and im still winning lol
On December 19 2009 15:12 lyhb wrote: again bisu just stomped shine who stomped stork
he stomped roro in ace as well
bisu is still the best protoss, i rest my case
Your logic is heavily flawed, not to mention your tone is arrogant and quite annoying. Just because player A beat B and B beat C, that does not mean player A beats C. Starcraft isn't quite as simple as you make it sound. There are so many factors involved and none of them with those players in the exact scenario that the other had to face.
Here is the TL 10 commandments. I highly suggest reading it if you haven't already done so.
player A beat player B and C (its called triangle theory btw lol)... hahahahah i win again
bisu is still the best protoss, just being real here
the argument 'bisu got own by a scrub zerg(shine)... stork is still in the osl...' is dead
i win
again, i rest my case
Reading this just pissed me off. "i win, me vs all, i still winning, everything else". It reminded me of my dealings with those obnoxious spoiled brats who just won't compromise or quit being a brat for some reason. for some strange reason Oh wait...
Arrgghhh. Can't stand people who use I win in arguments like that and I don't like how the rest of the argument is worded either.
I have never felt more annoyed or agitated from my experiences on TL. I watched Bisu and Stork drop out of the OSL and the MSL, firebathero lose over and over, and that pain combined cannot match how fcking painful it is to read what lyhb writes.Shit almost ruined my Christmas.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i49.tinypic.com/29qcuw5.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/2751/lineupc.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/58.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/MystLord/SC%20Map%20Pics/239.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1.jpg)
great < Neo Moon Glaive > 
Canata![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/59.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/MystLord/SC%20Map%20Pics/241.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/16.jpg)
Stork < Outsider SE > ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/948.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e267/8orion8/237_thumbnail.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/125.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/63.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/MystLord/SC%20Map%20Pics/199.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/12.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/noimage.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/MystLord/SC%20Map%20Pics/235.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/264/predictions.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/2478/resultsz.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/7209/recommendedgames.jpg)
But hope for an ace match, so let's root for BeSt since s2 has few chances to win his game. Well it depends on Canata, if he wins, and because Bisu will win, I want Stork to win because I wanna see a nice ace match like a Bisu-Stork.
![[image loading]](http://i45.tinypic.com/t7xs94.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img412.imageshack.us/i/orangetv.jpg/)
![[image loading]](http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/UsopSama/koreansc/sbg_temp.jpg)
