Iris > Saint Hyvaa < Flash Iris > Flash Hyvaa > Saint Hyvaa < Flash
Iris is good enough at cheesing on 2 player maps to be the most likely person to break Flash's win streak- he already technically broke it in Gom on HBR, but this is his opportunity to do it in a more intense fashion.
Flash will advance, the question is who will follow him.
With Saint being a terrible player, and Iris slumping like he's in middle school, hyvaa has got to be the most likely of this tepid trio to advance here, as his ZvT is decent, and his ZvZ is surely adequate.
Only flash is really interesting here, i guess it will be a toss up between saint and hyvaa for second place. Both of them seem pretty mediocre zvz so could go either way.
If flash chokes out i'll stop watching pro starcraft.
'Cause i get a thousand hugs, from ten thousand lightening bugs.
Poll: Who will emerge from this group (Vote): Hyvaa + Saint (Vote): Flash + Iris (Vote): Saint + Flash (Vote): Hyvaa + Iris (Vote): Iris + Saint (Vote): Flash + Hyvaa
FLASH STOMP incoming. He's so good his games border on boring, but then rapes are fun if you like the player. Plus as MrHoon mentioned, with all the good PvTers out of the way (except Jangbi? maybe), Flash has the best chance to win this MSL. AND the maps are good for terrans.
On December 05 2009 10:16 Avidkeystamper wrote: FLASH STOMP incoming. He's so good his games border on boring, but then rapes are fun if you like the player. Plus as MrHoon mentioned, with all the good PvTers out of the way (except Jangbi? maybe), Flash has the best chance to win this MSL. AND the maps are good for terrans.
Unfortuantely Best is still in there
edit: But yeah I agree. Some Zerg could certainly take care of Best and others so that Flash can roll with his almost invincible TvT and TvZ right now.
On December 05 2009 10:16 Avidkeystamper wrote: FLASH STOMP incoming. He's so good his games border on boring, but then rapes are fun if you like the player. Plus as MrHoon mentioned, with all the good PvTers out of the way (except Jangbi? maybe), Flash has the best chance to win this MSL. AND the maps are good for terrans.
Unfortuantely Best is still in there
edit: But yeah I agree. Some Zerg could certainly take care of Best and others so that Flash can roll with his almost invincible TvT and TvZ right now.
How did I forget best? Much bigger threat than Jangbi right now, to Flash and in general.
Iris tries to go for a break. After suffering some losses to the sunkens, he rushes up into Saint main but mutalisks are out in time to mop up the remaining force.
Saint has guardians while Iris is trying some dropship play.
Looking pretty grim for Saint too be honest. While he has high tech, his zerglings don't even have ling speed and Iris is making pretty good use out of his dropships. Not to mention the number of barracks and vessels Iris has...
On December 05 2009 17:25 Waxangel wrote: Jesus christ, he slow-fed him him like 30 marines
one of the worst plays I've seen this year
Agreed. It wasn't just as though he made one bad drop, he continually dropped in the same spot under the hammer. I know you don't want him to get that gas, Iris, but when he already has it, it's time to keep your army intact.
On December 05 2009 17:19 IdrA wrote: why is there an idiot talking over that stream
Pour yourself some juice, bake some cookies for yourself, and don't be hatin'.
cant wait to see what saint has prepared for flash, iris (though i love him dearly) only really has one style of tvz and Saint's build was pretty out of the ordinary for him, but a complete counter to iris's style
flash is gonna tear him a new butthole but i still wanna see what he prepared ^________^ saint is so cool
On December 05 2009 17:32 FireGuyX wrote: Off-topic question. Why is Flash playing zergs and terrans nonstop in the proleagues?
out of the current PL maps, you can't really find one that's great for P against T. you'll see other teams sending out their own terran ace or a surprise zerg against flash, but nothing else. the maps he plays on every week are pretty predictable
Flash TvZ... or FvZ is probably the most entertaining matchup of all, especially when he goes Bio. Just the sound effects of a huge scale MnM vs Crackling battle is enough to put a Smile on you face.
On December 05 2009 17:39 Hinanawi wrote: What was that bar graph? I know the downward ones were losses and the upward ones were wins, but what determines how high/low it is?
I'm guessing the higher the red, the more 'impressive' a win it was, and the shorter the gray, the less 'bad' a loss it was?
On December 05 2009 17:19 IdrA wrote: why is there an idiot talking over that stream
why were you watching caller in the first place. is cj watching a crappy korean variety show (we got married or star golden bell) on the main tv or something.
On December 05 2009 17:39 Hinanawi wrote: What was that bar graph? I know the downward ones were losses and the upward ones were wins, but what determines how high/low it is?
I'm guessing the higher the red, the more 'impressive' a win it was, and the shorter the gray, the less 'bad' a loss it was?
Yeah, that's exactly it. They take into account the strength of the opponent and give them 1~4 bars according.
On December 05 2009 17:39 Waxangel wrote: have times become so bountiful that people will bitch about little things when they have a fucking stream?
ya
aint too many of us who remember tl circa 2003 these days
yep, we live in the golden age, but we will appreciate it only in the furture
and so it goes, on and on toward infinity
Thank you Buzz Lightyear.
I remember those days. Even live reports were a godsend.
no, this is nothing like buzz lightyear. we only go precisely to infinity, never beyond
but yeah seriously people if you never lived in the days of worshipping userid=2 for his posts you shouldn't be bitchin' about nothin! in my day blah blah
On December 05 2009 17:47 Vasoline73 wrote: I guess roffles forgot to turn the kpop off to come back to the game? .
Oh well thanks for the LR so far guys just switched over. :D
I made it clear that I was only streaming the first game. I don't stream when Orange_TV is streaming.
Oh sorry ok I'm retarded, I didn't know. I figured it was probably something like that I didn't mean to sound disrespectful :D. I love your streams roffles.. I always use you lol
I strongly question Hyvaa's choice to play so aggresively against a player so well known for his defensive skills. He threw the game away right away failing THAT hard with 12 lings.
On December 05 2009 17:52 Hinanawi wrote: hyvaa: "Okay, my muta harass went badly, but if I control well, I can...wait...wait a minute, I'm playing Flash."
On December 05 2009 17:55 Hinanawi wrote: Flash's MnM control is just unreal. It seemed like every single time hyvaa made a pass with his mutas, we got the lovely *waarrrghh* muta death sound.
I hope his game against Saint actually gets into the mid or late game...
On December 05 2009 17:55 Hinanawi wrote: Flash's MnM Control is Just unreal. It seemed like every single time hyvaa made a pass with his mutas, we got the lovely *waarrrghh* muta death sound.
I hope his game against SaintActually gets into the mid or late game...
On December 05 2009 17:53 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: I strongly question Hyvaa's choice to play so aggresively against a player so well known for his defensive skills. He threw the game away right away failing THAT hard with 12 lings.
Flash has definitely lost many games to that kind of aggressive play in the past.
See: Flash vs Kwanro last MSL, Flash vs Yarnc a couple MSLs ago
But yeah, this current Flash doesn't look like he's gonna lose to 2 hatch muta or ling runbys
Would be great if he could actually meet someone great like Jaedong/Zero/Effort sometime so that we maybe can get something else than one sided rapes, it's been over three months since his WCG games against Effort >_>
On December 05 2009 17:52 Hinanawi wrote: hyvaa: "Okay, my muta harass went badly, but if I control well, I can...wait...wait a minute, I'm playing Flash."
hyvaa: gg
He probably figured his only chance to win the game was really aggressive 2-base play and be lucky. He probably assumed he would drop a game to Flash and mostly prepared for the other matches.
On December 05 2009 17:53 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: I strongly question Hyvaa's choice to play so aggresively against a player so well known for his defensive skills. He threw the game away right away failing THAT hard with 12 lings.
Flash has definitely lost many games to that kind of aggressive play in the past.
See: Flash vs Kwanro last MSL, Flash vs Yarnc a couple MSLs ago
But yeah, this current Flash doesn't look like he's gonna lose to 2 hatch muta or ling runbys
Flash lost in the past because he was stubborn and refused to build turrets. -_-;
On December 05 2009 17:59 Cpadolf wrote: Would be great if he could actually meet someone great like Jaedong/Zero/Effort sometime so that we maybe can get something else than one sided rapes, it's been over three months since his WCG games against Effort >_>
i agree. His current vs z does look really convincing lately but dont actually really know until he starts playing the top zvters.
On December 05 2009 17:53 HaXXspetten wrote: How long is his TvZ streak now?
9
Let's not count thatexhibition versus saviorwherehe nuked himself. Legitimately it's 16.
That's TLPD, which counts WCG and GOM -- things that progamers don't use for their streaks. Taking out the four WCG wins and the 3 from Gom in the streak, Flash drops down to 9.
It's why his TvT streak is currently 17 instead of 11.
Flash wanted to place that CC at the nat, but decided against it after seeing the fast pool. Decides to wall with the CC instead. Lair incoming for Saint.
On December 05 2009 18:05 LetMeShine wrote: Man, how does Flash send his SCV in the right direction so often? I know he saw the overlord, but he was already sending it to the 1 o'clock...
God, my internet is so slow lately I can't watch the games, ARG. At least I can keep up thanks to the thread, thanks to those live reporting the game. Although I wish it didn't take me 3 minutes to load a freakin teamliquid page.
On December 05 2009 18:05 LetMeShine wrote: Man, how does Flash send his SCV in the right direction so often? I know he saw the overlord, but he was already sending it to the 1 o'clock...
2nd command center still serving as a wall, looks like 2 hatch lurkers from Saint as he plops down a hydra den. 3 rax for Flash right now, walling with CC/Depot.
On December 05 2009 18:05 LetMeShine wrote: Man, how does Flash send his SCV in the right direction so often? I know he saw the overlord, but he was already sending it to the 1 o'clock...
On December 05 2009 18:05 LetMeShine wrote: Man, how does Flash send his SCV in the right direction so often? I know he saw the overlord, but he was already sending it to the 1 o'clock...
On December 05 2009 17:53 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: I strongly question Hyvaa's choice to play so aggresively against a player so well known for his defensive skills. He threw the game away right away failing THAT hard with 12 lings.
Flash has definitely lost many games to that kind of aggressive play in the past.
See: Flash vs Kwanro last MSL, Flash vs Yarnc a couple MSLs ago
But yeah, this current Flash doesn't look like he's gonna lose to 2 hatch muta or ling runbys
Flash lost in the past because he was stubborn and refused to build turrets. -_-;
haven't you seen that MSL group where Flash had to play Yarnc twice and lost to his 2 hatch muta allin despite like dozens of turrets
Flash moving random units out to the center of the map. Saint takes 12 oclock expansion, while morphing lurkers around the map. Flash scans, sees a quick Queens nest.
On December 05 2009 18:05 LetMeShine wrote: Man, how does Flash send his SCV in the right direction so often? I know he saw the overlord, but he was already sending it to the 1 o'clock...
Because Flash's insane gaming sense says Saint does not spawn at a random spot on the map, but on a Spawning Position.
That was some of the most dominant, flawless TvZ I've ever seen. I really need the CJ v. KT match to go to an EffOrt v. Flash ACE match, because right now I can think of only two zergs in the world who could deal with this madness.
FlaSh says his TvZ is still lacking against Jaedong. But by the time they meet, he will have improved his TvZ to the level where he will display a spectacular victory.
i've got to be honest flash is playing the best TvZ i've ever seen lol as close to perfection in both mechanics and decision making as there as ever been for this matchup
On December 05 2009 18:12 TwoToneTerran wrote: Make that 10.
COMING FOR YOU OOV.
No chance. Eventually, Flash will actually have to play a good zerg.
His next two TvZs will be against savior and type-b. Type-b could give him a run for his money but that puts flash within spitting distance of Oov's record.
On December 05 2009 18:14 SilverskY wrote: FlaSh says his TvZ is still lacking against Jaedong. But by the time they meet, he will have improved his TvZ to the level where he will display a spectacular victory.
Not sure how good Jaedongs ZvT is anymore, he has been playing like 80% ZvZ's over the last few months.
And when he has a ZvT, the match is over in 10 mins or less.
That last game's decision making was just flawless.
I can't wait to see him play Jaedong. I don't think any other Z has a chance (no, not Effort, last time they met Flash rolled Effort with bio in Game 1, and then with mech in Game 2...neither game was close).
On December 05 2009 18:15 EpiK wrote: damn, when the commentators asked flash how he would do against Jaedong I was hoping for a more confident answer =/
I think he was just being humble. That's what makes Flash the more awesome.
On December 05 2009 18:13 sharkeyanti wrote: something made me feel the Saint had not practiced that build enough.
or more like none of the mbc terrans did what flash did. Actually first time ive seen someone react to 2 hatch lurk like that. Im wondering if even flash's plan was what happened in the game. Seemed abit risky though.
On December 05 2009 18:15 EpiK wrote: damn, when the commentators asked flash how he would do against Jaedong I was hoping for a more confident answer =/
it was very confident polished answer, what he said was just not being cocky but very mannered n professional. imo it's another level above saying yes im confident i can win
i can see the same thing happen to flash just like oov, dominate the swam zerg go 18-0 and then get crushed by a new programmer who exploit timing like never before[ aka the next julyzerg] Oh boy oh boy, its gonna hurt when that happens. Go flash!, take down both titles! you have 2 more to catch up to lee jaedong!
On December 05 2009 18:14 Atrioc wrote: i've got to be honest flash is playing the best TvZ i've ever seen lol as close to perfection in both mechanics and decision making as there as ever been for this matchup
On December 05 2009 18:13 sharkeyanti wrote: something made me feel the Saint had not practiced that build enough.
or more like none of the mbc terrans did what flash did. Actually first time ive seen someone react to 2 hatch lurk like that. Im wondering if even flash's plan was what happened in the game. Seemed abit risky though.
Ya I've never seen a Terran so clearly plan a counter attack knowing the opponent was going 2 hatch lurk.
On December 05 2009 18:20 epjx31 wrote: i can see the same thing happen to flash just like oov, dominate the swam zerg go 18-0 and then get crushed by a new programmer who exploit timing like never before[ aka the next julyzerg] Oh boy oh boy, its gonna hurt when that happens. Go flash!, take down both titles! you have 2 more to catch up to lee jaedong!
well, no need to hurry. he has 2 years to match it.
On December 05 2009 18:20 epjx31 wrote: i can see the same thing happen to flash just like oov, dominate the swam zerg go 18-0 and then get crushed by a new programmer who exploit timing like never before[ aka the next julyzerg] Oh boy oh boy, its gonna hurt when that happens. Go flash!, take down both titles! you have 2 more to catch up to lee jaedong!
Except Flash's style is based on an intimate understanding of timing, not massive macro... ForGG is more like OOV than Flash. And look how well he's doing
On December 05 2009 18:20 epjx31 wrote: i can see the same thing happen to flash just like oov, dominate the swam zerg go 18-0 and then get crushed by a new programmer who exploit timing like never before[ aka the next julyzerg] Oh boy oh boy, its gonna hurt when that happens. Go flash!, take down both titles! you have 2 more to catch up to lee jaedong!
Except Flash's style is based on an intimate understanding of timing, not massive macro... ForGG is more like OOV than Flash. And look how well he's doing
if you think oov is massive macro you dont know him. Theres a reason why oov is known for being the inventor for most of the modern terran builds right now. Oov actually never had really good macro in the sense of not getting supply blocked and constactly reinforcing his units. I remember a game of his vs foru and it was a fpvod and his macro in that sense was actually pretty bad. He got supply stuck a lot and had to recompensate by adding extra facts. But he still had an insanely amount of units because of his understanding of timings such as when to stop scvs, when to add facts, when to expo etc.
Personally i dont even know how forgg used to do it before he slumped. Was always wondering that after watching his series vs jaedong.
On December 05 2009 18:20 epjx31 wrote: i can see the same thing happen to flash just like oov, dominate the swam zerg go 18-0 and then get crushed by a new programmer who exploit timing like never before[ aka the next julyzerg] Oh boy oh boy, its gonna hurt when that happens. Go flash!, take down both titles! you have 2 more to catch up to lee jaedong!
Except Flash's style is based on an intimate understanding of timing, not massive macro... ForGG is more like OOV than Flash. And look how well he's doing
fOrGG is a player known for his timing attacks. Flash is indeed similar to oov in the sense that his sense of expansion timing and economic play is unrivaled.
On December 05 2009 18:20 epjx31 wrote: i can see the same thing happen to flash just like oov, dominate the swam zerg go 18-0 and then get crushed by a new programmer who exploit timing like never before[ aka the next julyzerg] Oh boy oh boy, its gonna hurt when that happens. Go flash!, take down both titles! you have 2 more to catch up to lee jaedong!
Except Flash's style is based on an intimate understanding of timing, not massive macro... ForGG is more like OOV than Flash. And look how well he's doing
fOrGG is a player known for his timing attacks. Flash is indeed similar to oov in the sense that his sense of expansion timing and economic play is unrivaled.
And they are both often said to be boring, but are actually behind many innovations of standard Terran play =)
What's up with this fast expand + fast vessel build? It seems so fragile and I can't really remember any games where it was put to good use, and I remember several where it just straight up lost to aggression
hm whats up with the late academy? this will take him forever now to get stim and range before he can really utilize bio. that wraith is kinda cool though
On a sidenote, I've always avoided these discussion, but honestly Flash in his current form is the closest anyone's come to the bonjwa title since savior's prime imo. He's virtually invincible in TvT and TvZ and only beatable in TvP by the very best. He is 38-12 in his last 50 games (excluding GOM and special events), which equals a 76% win rate. 21-4 or 84% in his last 25. And he doesn't just win, he destroys anyone that's not S-Class seemingly without effort, which is what being bonjwa used to be all about.
On December 05 2009 18:36 InFiNitY[pG] wrote: On a sidenote, I've always avoided these discussion, but honestly Flash in his current form is the closest anyone's come to the bonjwa title since savior's prime imo. He's virtually invincible in TvT and TvZ and only beatable in TvP by the very best. He is 38-12 in his last 50 games (excluding GOM and special events), which equals a 76% win rate. 21-4 or 84% in his last 25. And he doesn't just win, he destroys anyone that's not S-Class seemingly without effort, which is what being bonjwa used to be all about.
I think Jaedong came pretty close in his 80% zvz days
On December 05 2009 18:38 Vasoline73 wrote: Man at this point in his career Iris must fucking hate late game TvZ so much. I bet he gets defiler nightmares
he must hate tvz in general, 2-3 to savior, kwanro and ggplay
edit: damn Saint just got like 5 vessels but Iris still has a nice vessel count. Iris still walking around with army while Saint macros up and gets another base. Why no tanks he's just letting Saint get to ultra tech.
Finally! Iris doing what he should've done 5 minutes ago, sending double dropships to take out 11. But it's too late; Saint has ultra tech and cleans it up ez.
If Iris went mech he'd have tanks and shit to stop this. Instead he went SK terran and turtled his way until ultras forced him to start attacking. GG already Iris, be more aggressive next time =/
On December 05 2009 16:26 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Saint and Flash. No doubt.
This was not a bold prediction. But it's been ages since I actually predicted a group correctly. Believe it or not, I did not pick Guemchi and Bogus to get out of Group F. It was so obvious, too!
flash stomps his way to 2-0 for an easy advancement. iris plays three shitty games, beats one shitty zerg and suicides three dropships to prove he's too manly to use them vs. saint
This game deserves a best of video - the best fails of Iris. He just played bellow anything that could be expected of a pro gamer. If he's not running his marines into groups of lurkers in the middle of the map without detection, he's doing a scv transfer through a dark swarm with lurkers. 12scvs go in, 2 come out. I hope he steps his game up because he can be a real beast.
Flash's streak is a pretty funny tour of zerg players. After losing to Kwanro in the MSL, he's beaten Hogil (twice), hero, Hyun, hyvaa, Saint, Savior, Kwanro (twice), and Yarnc, not counting July at GOM or Effort at WCG. He faces type-b in his OSL group and Savior (and maybe Effort?) in Proleague.
Fun fact, Flash has now passed up Nada's vZ Elo peak. He's 22 points behind oov, meaning he'll pass him up if he actually DOES break the record and get 9 more wins TvZ. Hell I'm sure he'll pass him up if he ties the record.
On December 05 2009 21:22 TwoToneTerran wrote: Fun fact, Flash has now passed up Nada's vZ Elo peak. He's 22 points behind oov, meaning he'll pass him up if he actually DOES break the record and get 9 more wins TvZ. Hell I'm sure he'll pass him up if he ties the record.
Even then, Flash will still have to continue playing like this for months before he's in reach of Jaedong's vZ peak... now that's scary.
Whats with all these fucking moron snobs calling these games bad? I dont care if flash just played..these games were action packed and entertaining, with so much going on players will make mistakes..I dont see how any intelligent fan could call these games bad. But then again I forget I post in the same place were people say things like stork is slumping after losing a few games and flash's vP is shaky because he drops a game to Best, and much more nonsense.
Sucks to see Iris go, but nice to see Saint advance, im just disappointed he may have to play Zero another of man fan favs, or even that Zero will have to play Flash, though Zero is looking like one of the few zergs who can give Flash a run for his money.
On December 06 2009 00:43 Avidkeystamper wrote: Flash's last meaningful win against a dragon was in February. It's not shaky, untested. But I didn't say anything regarding anything else.
Im not attacking you personally I was just giving a small list of silly things said, but even then the examples were a minor part of what I was sayin.
On December 05 2009 21:22 TwoToneTerran wrote: Fun fact, Flash has now passed up Nada's vZ Elo peak. He's 22 points behind oov, meaning he'll pass him up if he actually DOES break the record and get 9 more wins TvZ. Hell I'm sure he'll pass him up if he ties the record.
Even then, Flash will still have to continue playing like this for months before he's in reach of Jaedong's vZ peak... now that's scary.
He's exactly fifty points behind. So, dependant on who he plays, it's actually possible for him to break jaedong's vZ record in close to 9 games. He's FOR SURE to break oovs with 9 more wins against any calibre of zerg opponent.
Basically, take his upcoming games against savior and type-b into the equation, and if he wins those he'll go up about 6 points, meaning 44 left with 7 games to play to break oov's streak. Now 7 games COULD include 1 proleague TvZ (He's mostly playing TvT so not that unreasonable) and, more importantly, end league TvZs.
Basically, Flash will have to 3-0 two zergs such as Arnc, Jaedong, or Effort in a row to come close to breaking Jaedong's vZ Elo peak by the time he breaks Oov's streak.
On December 06 2009 06:46 MuffinDude wrote: wait, did iris dmatrix the tank that was just sitting in his base instead of the dropship or did he plan to dmatrix the tank?
On December 06 2009 00:41 mog87 wrote: Whats with all these fucking moron snobs calling these games bad? I dont care if flash just played..these games were action packed and entertaining, with so much going on players will make mistakes..I dont see how any intelligent fan could call these games bad. But then again I forget I post in the same place were people say things like stork is slumping after losing a few games and flash's vP is shaky because he drops a game to Best, and much more nonsense.
Sucks to see Iris go, but nice to see Saint advance, im just disappointed he may have to play Zero another of man fan favs, or even that Zero will have to play Flash, though Zero is looking like one of the few zergs who can give Flash a run for his money.
Er did we watch the same games?
Iris didn't exactly play stellar there. In fact it was nothing short of a cluster fuck if you really look at it. You don't move around armies without your vessels, you don't transfer SCV's through swarm etc etc. It was an entertaining game because of the spectacular amount of mistakes contained within.
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/alffla/NATESTORKbanner.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/DoctorHelvetica/misc_gfx/lineupimage.png)
Iris < Ultimatum > 
Saint![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/DoctorHelvetica/misc_gfx/predictionsimage.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/DoctorHelvetica/misc_gfx/resultsimage.png)
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