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[H] TvZ lurker Drops - Page 2

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
krndandaman
Profile Joined August 2009
Mozambique16569 Posts
June 15 2010 05:21 GMT
#21
--- Nuked ---
FlameSworD
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States414 Posts
June 15 2010 05:52 GMT
#22
yep just attack the lurkers with your scvs they have 60 hp l;
skyhighftw on iccup
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-16 00:32:09
June 16 2010 00:23 GMT
#23
Hi Gumper.

Zerg can do alot of different 2hatch openings and it's hard to play against if you don't know what you're looking for. There are some different things you can notice in order to understand what build he uses.

The 2hatch lurker openings he can do, opening with a 12hatch, are generally these:
  1. All in zergling speed + lurkers at your front.

  2. Lurker drop from 2 hatch, not as all in but pretty much.

  3. 2hatch lurker into fast third hatchery on a new main location in order to quickly secure a third gas and then tech to hive into lategame.

The first thing you need to know in order to counter these things is to know whats coming.
The answer is SCVscout and scans.

With the scv you're looking for his gas timing in the main.
If you're not able to scout his base before he's already put up the gas, you either need to scout faster next time, or judge from the healthbar of the pool + gas to know when he placed it. You can learn this by trying it on singleplayer.
Each number represents the strategy from above:
  1. He takes gas same time as spawningpool.
    He need alot of gas quick, because the faster the better this build is. He needs lair, lingspeed and lurker upgrade ASAP.

  2. He takes gas same time as spawningpool.
    Researching lurkers and drop, plus eventually overlord speed later on takes alot of gas.

  3. The gas goes up when the pool is 50% finnished.
    This will give him exactly 300 minerals before he can start his lurker upgrade if he upgrades lair when he has 100 gas in the first place. The third hatch will generally be placed at a new main in order to get a fourth gas as soon as he gets defilers. He will not be offensive for a while with this strategy.


So if he takes gas when pool is 50% you know that you don't need to play very safe with bunkers etc but rather preassure him early.

If the gas goes up at the same time as the pool you have narrowed it down to two different options, based on that he uses lurkers ofcourse.
The way to sort this out is to keep the scv alive longer or scan him asap.
What you're looking for now is his gas in the expansion.
  1. He only mines minerals from his expanison. No gas going up.
    Since this build is zergling heavy he will only use the gas in his main to make lurkers. This will give him enough lurkers for a bust at your natural and at the same time provide him with enough money so that he can make alot of zerglings. And he will not need that many drones so the attack can come faster.

  2. He takes his gas in the expansion shortly after upgrading lair.
    This build is very gas heavy and he will ned alot of gas, however he will not need as many minerals that fast because the threat will not appear until his overlord transport upgrade is finnished anyway.


The way to deal with the strategies are following:
  1. Make 3 bunkers at your front.
    Pretty easy to counter if you know its coming.

  2. You need to make a bunker in the front and one in your main.
    Have 4 marines in the bunker in your main and keep you units in your natural but not in the bunker.
    Place turrets or suplydepots at the outer ends of your base in order to quickly spot any overlords and then react fast with your units at your natural. The bunker will buy enough time for you to move there.
    Add another factory after making the starport, if you chose not to place an early refinary in your natural you could make a dropship before making the first vessel.
    Keep making tank until vessel is out and then scan his main. If he upgrades hive, move out. If not, wait for a second vessel and move out.
    Keep the marines in the bunker when you move out, you will not need all your marines because zerg has fewer units aswell because of all the upgrades.

    Sometimes, if he wait for you to move out and then go for an all-in drop there might bre an eliminationrace. Just make sure to go for his main and that you move out before he gets his hive. If he uses alot of lurkers to drop you at this stage he will have too few units to stop your push and he won't be bale to kill you even if he kills all your reinforcing tanks+marines becuase in the worst case scenario you can just lift off and kill him with your big army.


  3. Preassure him early on when you have 1 medic 1 firebat or 2medics 2 firebats.
    Make sure to place buildings in you expansion so you can defend a backstab of zerglings and be ready to pull scvs from natural to your main in order to block the ramp. Make a bunker as soon as the medics are finnished so it will be ready once you move out.
    Once you move out, use 2 scvs to scout on different locations aswell in order to find his expansion as quick as possible.

    Sometimes you'll be able to finnish him off if he doesn't make enough sunkens, otherwise you might be able to take out his third base before lukers are finnished.

    If this fails, play as normal making the push when your first vessel pops out. Make a timed attack on his natural expansion while you add another starport going into SKterran mode.
    Keep preassuring him to force him into a defensive mode because he will not have any true armysize until he gets ultralisks wich will be his main goal using this strategy.
    Shortly after you've gone SKterran you should be able to take a third base and keep the preassure up and mix in some dropships.
    You might not be able to stop him from taking a forth base, if that happens, take a fourth expansion at another main location with 3 scvs and a group of m&m. Use 1 scv to make a command center and two scvs to make factories there while you start pumping tanks at home to transition into a heavy tank defense in order to get your tankcount up to face his ultralisks which will enevitably come.


Good luck.
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
Gumper
Profile Joined May 2010
United States16 Posts
June 16 2010 02:08 GMT
#24
hurray Stylish =D
machinehead..
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
412 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-16 08:36:22
June 16 2010 08:30 GMT
#25
Agree with the person that said just make a wraith... The zerg relies on the simultaneous drop of your main and your natural; turret up your natural to at least give you instant awareness so you can pull your scvs if he does manage to drop, then just concentrate on killing the units off in your main and then regaining your natural. Play very defensively, at least 2 bunkers at your choke, and when you can afford to stop making vessels, make a dropship so you can easily kill off expos as soon as he throws one down. You can have a dropship on the patrol just looking to shut them down asap. If he doesn't expo in a timely fashion, you know he has to go all-in to win, so you just keep your units concentrated in your main.
Gumper
Profile Joined May 2010
United States16 Posts
June 17 2010 23:32 GMT
#26
On June 16 2010 09:23 StylishVODs wrote:
Hi Gumper.

Zerg can do alot of different 2hatch openings and it's hard to play against if you don't know what you're looking for. There are some different things you can notice in order to understand what build he uses.

The 2hatch lurker openings he can do, opening with a 12hatch, are generally these:
  1. All in zergling speed + lurkers at your front.

  2. Lurker drop from 2 hatch, not as all in but pretty much.

  3. 2hatch lurker into fast third hatchery on a new main location in order to quickly secure a third gas and then tech to hive into lategame.

The first thing you need to know in order to counter these things is to know whats coming.
The answer is SCVscout and scans.

With the scv you're looking for his gas timing in the main.
If you're not able to scout his base before he's already put up the gas, you either need to scout faster next time, or judge from the healthbar of the pool + gas to know when he placed it. You can learn this by trying it on singleplayer.
Each number represents the strategy from above:
  1. He takes gas same time as spawningpool.
    He need alot of gas quick, because the faster the better this build is. He needs lair, lingspeed and lurker upgrade ASAP.

  2. He takes gas same time as spawningpool.
    Researching lurkers and drop, plus eventually overlord speed later on takes alot of gas.

  3. The gas goes up when the pool is 50% finnished.
    This will give him exactly 300 minerals before he can start his lurker upgrade if he upgrades lair when he has 100 gas in the first place. The third hatch will generally be placed at a new main in order to get a fourth gas as soon as he gets defilers. He will not be offensive for a while with this strategy.


So if he takes gas when pool is 50% you know that you don't need to play very safe with bunkers etc but rather preassure him early.

If the gas goes up at the same time as the pool you have narrowed it down to two different options, based on that he uses lurkers ofcourse.
The way to sort this out is to keep the scv alive longer or scan him asap.
What you're looking for now is his gas in the expansion.
  1. He only mines minerals from his expanison. No gas going up.
    Since this build is zergling heavy he will only use the gas in his main to make lurkers. This will give him enough lurkers for a bust at your natural and at the same time provide him with enough money so that he can make alot of zerglings. And he will not need that many drones so the attack can come faster.

  2. He takes his gas in the expansion shortly after upgrading lair.
    This build is very gas heavy and he will ned alot of gas, however he will not need as many minerals that fast because the threat will not appear until his overlord transport upgrade is finnished anyway.


The way to deal with the strategies are following:
  1. Make 3 bunkers at your front.
    Pretty easy to counter if you know its coming.

  2. You need to make a bunker in the front and one in your main.
    Have 4 marines in the bunker in your main and keep you units in your natural but not in the bunker.
    Place turrets or suplydepots at the outer ends of your base in order to quickly spot any overlords and then react fast with your units at your natural. The bunker will buy enough time for you to move there.
    Add another factory after making the starport, if you chose not to place an early refinary in your natural you could make a dropship before making the first vessel.
    Keep making tank until vessel is out and then scan his main. If he upgrades hive, move out. If not, wait for a second vessel and move out.
    Keep the marines in the bunker when you move out, you will not need all your marines because zerg has fewer units aswell because of all the upgrades.

    Sometimes, if he wait for you to move out and then go for an all-in drop there might bre an eliminationrace. Just make sure to go for his main and that you move out before he gets his hive. If he uses alot of lurkers to drop you at this stage he will have too few units to stop your push and he won't be bale to kill you even if he kills all your reinforcing tanks+marines becuase in the worst case scenario you can just lift off and kill him with your big army.


  3. Preassure him early on when you have 1 medic 1 firebat or 2medics 2 firebats.
    Make sure to place buildings in you expansion so you can defend a backstab of zerglings and be ready to pull scvs from natural to your main in order to block the ramp. Make a bunker as soon as the medics are finnished so it will be ready once you move out.
    Once you move out, use 2 scvs to scout on different locations aswell in order to find his expansion as quick as possible.

    Sometimes you'll be able to finnish him off if he doesn't make enough sunkens, otherwise you might be able to take out his third base before lukers are finnished.

    If this fails, play as normal making the push when your first vessel pops out. Make a timed attack on his natural expansion while you add another starport going into SKterran mode.
    Keep preassuring him to force him into a defensive mode because he will not have any true armysize until he gets ultralisks wich will be his main goal using this strategy.
    Shortly after you've gone SKterran you should be able to take a third base and keep the preassure up and mix in some dropships.
    You might not be able to stop him from taking a forth base, if that happens, take a fourth expansion at another main location with 3 scvs and a group of m&m. Use 1 scv to make a command center and two scvs to make factories there while you start pumping tanks at home to transition into a heavy tank defense in order to get your tankcount up to face his ultralisks which will enevitably come.


Good luck.


Where should I place my bunker in my main? I usually place one near my CC so it can cover my scvs but then the supply depots are in trouble. And also what happens if he does a dual drop on both my main and natural? Cleaning up the lurkers in the natural is really hard since the lurkers are behind the mineral line, and since its cramped, the marines get slaughtered since they will go in a line.(assume Fighting Spirit)
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