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[Article] New maps to blame?

Forum Index > BW General
24 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 Next All
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66358 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-15 12:02:39
April 14 2009 05:17 GMT
#1
Are the new maps to blame for the many 3:0 results?
"It is because the teams who have lost have yet to fully understand the new maps."


[image loading]


3:0 results have been dished out one after another right from the start of the Round 4 of the Proleague.

All twelve teams have played in the three days from the opening day (11th) til the 13th, and among the 6 matches played, 5 games have resulted in a score of 3:0, which is equivalent to 83.3% of all the matches played.

There was intense competition to climb up the ranks even right before the start of Round 4, and many people expected fierce matches to happen.

But when the time came, many matches just progressed helplessly for the losing team. Excluding the opening day's match between Hwaseung Oz and Hite Sparkyz, which was dragged til the ace match and resulted in Hwaseung's 3:2 victory, the other games have all resulted in 3:0s.

Many coaching staffs and the commentators have pointed to the lack of complete understanding of the new maps being the key reason for such results. A coach whose team won 3:0 said that "the greatest difference between the winning and the losing team is the difference in understanding of the new maps". He also said that "the losing team, unlike our team, has totally opposite comprehension of the new maps", while commentators and casters explained that "despite all teams being given similar practice times, the team with a greater, deeper player pool and an absolute ace player has shown that they are superior by producing 3:0 victories."

But many people's opinions differed when asked if such results will continue to show. While some mentioned that "with the current standard of Progamers, they will analyse their own plays, watching VODs while creating new strategies for the new maps, hence being able to adjust even faster to the new maps", some said otherwise, saying that "because the (winning) teams had managed to analyse the maps well and sent out players accordingly right from the start, the understanding of the maps between teams will start to diverge."

Whether the 3:0 results can continue to be produced, it will be found out starting from Day 4 of Week 1 of the Round 4 of Proleague.

Round 4 has six of the eight old maps removed, and including an altered version of 'Medusa', called 'Neo Medusa', and the unchanged 'Destination', the other four maps that will be used in Round 4 will be 'Heartbreak Ridge', 'God's Garden', 'Battle Royal' and 'Outsider'.

โ–ถ Results of the Shinhan Bank 08-09 Season Proleague Week 1, up til Day 3.
โ—† 11th April
Hwaseung Oz 3 vs 2 Hite Sparkyz
Samsung Khan 3 vs 0 Woongjin Stars

โ—† 12th April
WeMade FOX 3 vs 0 KTF MagicNs
STX Soul 3 vs 0 eSTRO

โ—† 13th April
CJ Entus 3 vs 0 Air Force ACE
SKTelecom T1 3 vs 0 MBCGame Hero

+ Show Spoiler [Original Korean Article] +


Home > ๋‰ด์Šค > ์ด์Šˆ/๊ธฐํš
ํ”„๋กœ๋ฆฌ๊ทธ 4๋ผ์šด๋“œ, ์ดˆ๋ฐ˜๋ถ€ํ„ฐ 3:0 ๊ฒฝ๊ธฐ ์†์ถœ์€ ์‹ ๊ทœ๋งต ๋•Œ๋ฌธ??
2009๋…„ 04์›” 13์ผ 21์‹œ 11๋ถ„

[ํฌ๋ชจ์Šค=์‹ฌํ˜„ ๊ธฐ์ž]ํŒ€๋ณ„๋กœ ์‹ ๊ทœ๋งต ์ดํ•ด๋„ ์ฐจ์ด์— ๋”ฐ๋ฅธ ๊ฒƒ์œผ๋กœ ๋ถ„์„

[image loading]


ํ”„๋กœ๋ฆฌ๊ทธ 4๋ผ์šด๋“œ ์ดˆ๋ฐ˜ 3:0 ๊ฒฝ๊ธฐ๊ฐ€ ์†์ถœํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ๋‹ค.

์ง€๋‚œ 11์ผ ์‹œ์ž‘๋œ ์‹ ํ•œ์€ํ–‰ ํ”„๋กœ๋ฆฌ๊ทธ 08-09 4๋ผ์šด๋“œ๋Š” 13์ผ ๊ฒฝ๊ธฐ๋กœ 12๊ฐœ ํ”„๋กœ๊ฒŒ์ž„๋‹จ์ด ๋ชจ๋‘ ํ•œ ๊ฒฝ๊ธฐ์”ฉ์„ ์น˜๋ฅด๋ฉฐ 1์ฃผ์ฐจ 3๊ฒฝ๊ธฐ๊ฐ€ ์ข…๋ฃŒ๋œ ์ƒํƒœ์—์„œ ์ด ์—ฌ์„ฏ ๊ฒฝ๊ธฐ ๊ฐ€์šด๋ฐ 83.3%์— ๋‹ฌํ•˜๋Š” ๋‹ค์„ฏ ๊ฒฝ๊ธฐ๊ฐ€ 3:0์œผ๋กœ ๋งˆ๋ฌด๋ฆฌ๋๋‹ค.

์ „์ฒด 5๋ผ์šด๋“œ๋กœ ์ง„ํ–‰๋˜๋Š” ํ”„๋กœ๋ฆฌ๊ทธ 08-09 ์‹œ์ฆŒ์€ 4๋ผ์šด๋“œ ์‹œ์ž‘ ์ „๋งŒ ํ•˜๋”๋ผ๋„ ๋ณธ๊ฒฉ์ ์ธ ์ˆœ์œ„ ๋‹คํˆผ๊ณผ ํ•จ๊ป˜ ํฌ์ŠคํŠธ์‹œ์ฆŒ ์ง„์ถœ์„ ์œ„ํ•œ ๊ฒฝ์Ÿ ๊ตฌ๋„๊ฐ€ ๋œจ๊ฑฐ์›Œ์ง€๋ฉด์„œ ์น˜์—ดํ•œ ์ ‘์ „์ด ํŽผ์ณ์งˆ ๊ฒƒ์œผ๋กœ ์˜ˆ์ƒ๋๋‹ค.

๊ทธ๋ ‡์ง€๋งŒ ๋šœ๊ป‘์„ ์—ด์–ด๋ณด๋‹ˆ ๊ฒฐ๊ณผ๋Š” ๋‹ค์†Œ ํ—ˆ๋ฌดํ•˜๊ฒŒ ์ง„ํ–‰๋๋‹ค. 4๋ผ์šด๋“œ ์ฒซ ๊ฒฝ๊ธฐ๋กœ ํŽผ์ณ์ง„ 11์ผ ํ™”์Šน๊ณผ ํ•˜์ดํŠธ์ „์—์„œ ์—์ด์Šค๊ฒฐ์ •์ „๊นŒ์ง€ ๊ฐ€๋Š” ํ’€์„ธํŠธ ์ ‘์ „ ๋์— 3:2๋กœ ๊ฒฝ๊ธฐ๊ฐ€ ์ข…๋ฃŒ๋œ ๊ฒƒ์„ ์ œ์™ธํ•˜๊ณ ๋Š” 1์ฃผ์ฐจ 3๊ฒฝ๊ธฐ ํ˜„์žฌ ๋ชจ๋“  ๊ฒฝ๊ธฐ์—์„œ 3:0 ์Šค์ฝ”์–ด๊ฐ€ ๋‚˜์™”๋‹ค.

์ด์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ๊ฐ ํŒ€ ์ฝ”์นญ์Šคํƒœํ”„์™€ ํ•ด์„ค์œ„์›๋“ค์€ ์‹ ๊ทœ๋งต์˜ ๋„์ž…์„ ๊ฐ€์žฅ ํฐ ์›์ธ์œผ๋กœ ๊ผฝ์•˜๋‹ค. 3:0์œผ๋กœ ์Šน๋ฆฌ๋ฅผ ๊ฑฐ๋‘” ํŒ€์˜ A์ฝ”์น˜๋Š” โ€œํŒจํ•œ ํŒ€๋“ค๊ณผ ์Šน๋ฆฌํ•œ ํŒ€๋“ค์˜ ๊ฐ€์žฅ ํฐ ์ฐจ์ด๋Š” ์‹ ๊ทœ๋งต์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ์ดํ•ด๋„๊ฐ€ ์›์ธ์ธ ๊ฒƒ์œผ๋กœ ๋ณด์ธ๋‹ค. 4๋ผ์šด๋“œ ์ฒซ ๊ฒฝ๊ธฐ์—์„œ ํŒจํ•œ BํŒ€์˜ ๊ฒฝ์šฐ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ ํŒ€๊ณผ๋Š” ์ •๋ฐ˜๋Œ€๋กœ ๋งต์„ ์ดํ•ดํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์—ˆ๋‹คโ€๋Š” ์˜๊ฒฌ์„ ๋‚ด๋น„์ณค๊ณ , ํ•ด์„ค์œ„์›๋“ค์€ ๋Œ€์ฒด๋กœ โ€œ์„ ์ˆ˜๋“ค์ด ๋งต์„ ๋ถ„์„ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ์‹œ๊ฐ„์€ ํŒ€๋“ค์ด ๋Œ€๋ถ€๋ถ„ ๋น„์Šทํ–ˆ๊ฒ ์ง€๋งŒ ์™„์Šน์„ ๊ฑฐ๋‘” ํŒ€๋“ค์ด ๋Œ€์ฒด๋กœ ์„ ์ˆ˜์ธต์ด ๋‘ํ…๊ณ  ํ™•์‹คํ•œ ์—์ด์Šค ์นด๋“œ๋ฅผ ๋ณด์œ ํ•œ ํŒ€์ธ ๊ฒƒ์„ ๋ณด๋ฉด ์‹ ๊ทœ๋งต์˜ ํˆฌ์ž…์ด ์ดˆ๋ฐ˜ ์žฆ์€ 3:0 ์™„์Šน์— ์˜ํ–ฅ์„ ๋ฏธ์นœ ๊ฒƒ ๊ฐ™๋‹คโ€๋ฉฐ ๋™์˜ํ•˜๋Š” ๋ชจ์Šต.

ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ์ง€๊ธˆ๊ณผ ๊ฐ™์€ ํ˜„์ƒ์ด ์•ž์œผ๋กœ๋„ ์ง€์†๋  ๊ฒƒ์ธ์ง€์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด์„œ๋Š” ์˜๊ฒฌ์ด ๋‹ค์†Œ ์—‡๊ฐˆ๋ ธ๋‹ค. โ€œํ˜„์žฌ ํ”„๋กœ๊ฒŒ์ด๋จธ๋“ค์˜ ์‹ค๋ ฅ์ด๋ผ๋ฉด ์ž์‹ ๋“ค์˜ ๊ฒฝ๊ธฐ ๊ฒฝํ—˜๊ณผ ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ํŒ€๋“ค์˜ ๊ฒฝ๊ธฐ๋ฅผ VOD๋ฅผ ํ†ตํ•ด ๋ถ„์„ํ•˜๋ฉด์„œ ์‹ ๊ทœ๋งต์— ๋”ฐ๋ฅธ ์ „๋žต, ์ „์ˆ ์„ ๊ธˆ๋ฐฉ ์ˆ˜์ •ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์„ ๊ฒƒโ€์ด๋ผ๋Š” ์˜๊ฒฌ์ด ์žˆ๋Š” ๋ฐ˜๋ฉด โ€œ์Šคํ† ๋ธŒ ๊ธฐ๊ฐ„ ๋™์•ˆ ์‹ ๊ทœ๋งต์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ์ดํ•ด์™€ ์ ์‘์„ ๋งˆ์น˜๊ณ  ๋‚œ ๋’ค ์‹œ์ฆŒ ์ดˆ๋ฐ˜ ์—”ํŠธ๋ฆฌ๋ฅผ ๊ตฌ์„ฑํ•˜๊ณ  ๊ฐ ๋งต์—์„œ์˜ ์ „๋žต์„ ์ˆ˜๋ฆฝํ–ˆ๊ธฐ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์— ๋‹น๋ถ„๊ฐ„์€ ๋งต ์ดํ•ด๋„์— ๋”ฐ๋ฅธ ์ฐจ์ด๊ฐ€ ๋‹ค์†Œ ๊ทน๋ช…ํ•˜๊ฒŒ ์—‡๊ฐˆ๋ฆด ๊ฒƒ์œผ๋กœ ๋ณด์ธ๋‹คโ€๊ณ  ์ „๋งํ•œ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค๋„ ์žˆ์—ˆ๋‹ค.

๊ณผ์—ฐ ์ถœ๋ฐœ๋ถ€ํ„ฐ 3:0 ๊ฒฝ๊ธฐ๊ฐ€ ์—ฐ์ด์–ด ํƒ„์ƒํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ๋Š” ์‹ ํ•œ์€ํ–‰ ํ”„๋กœ๋ฆฌ๊ทธ 08-09 4๋ผ์šด๋“œ๊ฐ€ ๊ฐ ํŒ€๋ณ„๋กœ ๋‘ ๋ฒˆ์งธ ๊ฒฝ๊ธฐ๋ฅผ ์น˜๋ฅด๋Š” 1์ฃผ์ฐจ 4๊ฒฝ๊ธฐ๋ถ€ํ„ฐ๋Š” ์–ด๋–ค ์–‘์ƒ์œผ๋กœ ๊ฒฝ๊ธฐ๊ฐ€ ์ „๊ฐœ๋  ์ง€ ๊ท€์ถ”๊ฐ€ ์ฃผ๋ชฉ๋œ๋‹ค.

ํ•œํŽธ ์‹ ํ•œ์€ํ–‰ ํ”„๋กœ๋ฆฌ๊ทธ 08-09 4๋ผ์šด๋“œ๋Š” ๊ธฐ์กด์˜ ๊ณต์‹๋งต 8๊ฐœ ๊ฐ€์šด๋ฐ ์˜ฌ๋“œ๋งต์„ ํฌํ•จํ•œ 6๊ฐœ์˜ ๋งต์ด ๊ต์ฒด๋๊ณ , โ€˜๋„ค์˜ค๋ฉ”๋‘์‚ฌโ€™๋กœ ์ˆ˜์ •๋œ ๋ฉ”๋‘์‚ฌ์™€ โ€˜๋ฐ์Šคํ‹ฐ๋„ค์ด์…˜โ€™์„ ์ œ์™ธํ•œ 4๊ฐœ์˜ ๋งต์ด ๋น ์ง€๊ณ  โ€˜๋‹จ์žฅ์˜๋Šฅ์„ โ€™, โ€˜์‹ ์˜์ •์›โ€™, โ€˜๋ฐฐํ‹€๋กœ์–„โ€™, โ€˜์•„์›ƒ์‚ฌ์ด๋”โ€™๊ฐ€ ์ƒˆ๋กญ๊ฒŒ ํˆฌ์ž…๋๋‹ค.

โ–ถ ์‹ ํ•œ์€ํ–‰ ํ”„๋กœ๋ฆฌ๊ทธ 4๋ผ์šด๋“œ 1์ฃผ์ฐจ 3๊ฒฝ๊ธฐ ํ˜„์žฌ ๊ฒฝ๊ธฐ๊ฒฐ๊ณผ
โ—† 4์›” 11์ผ
ํ™”์Šน 3 vs 2 ํ•˜์ดํŠธ
์‚ผ์„ฑ์ „์ž 3 vs 0 ์›…์ง„

โ—† 4์›” 12์ผ
์œ„๋ฉ”์ด๋“œ 3 vs 0 KTF
STX 3 vs 0 ์ด์ŠคํŠธ๋กœ

โ—† 4์›” 13์ผ
CJ 3 vs 0 ๊ณต๊ตฐ
SKํ…”๋ ˆ์ฝค 3 vs 0 MBC๊ฒŒ์ž„

lovesh73@fomos.co.kr

๋ชจ๋ฐ”์ผ๋กœ ๋ณด๋Š” ์Šคํƒ€ํฌ๋ž˜ํ”„ํŠธ 1253+NATE/โ“/ez-i
Enjoy e-Sports & http://www.fomos.kr ๋ฌด๋‹จ ์ „์žฌ ๋ฐ ์žฌ๋ฐฐํฌ ๊ธˆ์ง€


Source: Fomos.kr

Update: As of the end of the 14th of April (KST), it has now become 6 out of 7 games resulting in 3:0.
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POGGERS
Grobyc
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada18410 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-14 05:21:04
April 14 2009 05:19 GMT
#2
Well isn't it the losing teams fault for not fully understanding the maps?

I don't see how the maps are to blame.

Anyway, thanks for the translation!
If you watch Godzilla backwards it's about a benevolent lizard who helps rebuild a city and then moonwalks into the ocean.
29 fps
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States5725 Posts
April 14 2009 05:23 GMT
#3
dont blame the maps (yet, even though i dont like some of them)

this is actually the best time, where people are showing what they are capable of even on unfamiliar ground

winners league is where the players dont know who's up next. what if they didnt know which MAP was up next? wouldn't that be interesting?
4v4 is a battle of who has the better computer.
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8556 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-14 05:32:10
April 14 2009 05:24 GMT
#4
"the team with a greater, deeper player pool and an absolute ace player has shown that they are superior by producing 3:0 victories."

โ—† 12th April
WeMade FOX 3 vs 0 KTF MagicNs

Clearly

Also, many of the maps have multiple races winning of them, such as Outsider, Medusa, and HeartBreak Ridge.
Jaedong
thunk
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States6233 Posts
April 14 2009 05:25 GMT
#5
Yea, I strongly disagree that "lack of complete understanding" is to blame. What about maps brought back, like Destination or Medusa?

But what do I know, these guys are at the edge of what is possible in the Starcraft world.
Every time Jung Myung Hoon builds a vulture, two probes die. || My post count was a palindrome and I was never posting again.
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
April 14 2009 06:03 GMT
#6
On April 14 2009 14:17 konadora wrote:
Many coaching staffs and the commentators have pointed to the lack of complete understanding of the new maps being the key reason for such results. A coach whose team won 3:0 said that "the greatest difference between the winning and the losing team is the difference in understanding of the new maps". He also said that "the losing team, unlike our team, has totally opposite comprehension of the new maps", while commentators and casters explained that "despite all teams being given similar practice times, the team with a greater, deeper player pool and an absolute ace player has shown that they are superior by producing 3:0 victories."



This is a really good point. A team with a deeper roster is far more likely to accurate predict how the metagame will shape up in untested waters, which probably gives a significant edge in both build orders and overall preparedness for the matchup. It would be interesting to go through proleagues of past and see if there is a trend or if this is just coincidence.
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66358 Posts
April 14 2009 06:15 GMT
#7
I would really hope that they would dismantle their thought of 'standard build' and send out non-zergs on Battle Royal. That play by (P)Tempest was pretty cool.
POGGERS
Crunchums
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States11144 Posts
April 14 2009 07:01 GMT
#8
Another thing the new maps are to blame for is producing a high percentage of entertaining games!
brood war for life, brood war forever
Scaramanga
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Australia8092 Posts
April 14 2009 07:19 GMT
#9
"the team with a greater, deeper player pool and an absolute ace player has shown that they are superior by producing 3:0 victories"
kinda sucks for ktf if their absolute ace player doesnt get to play T_T
Loda talked about the fun counter, it's AdmiralBulldog on his natures prophet
Day[9]
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
United States7366 Posts
April 14 2009 07:24 GMT
#10
this is hardly a statistical anomaly

dunno why anyone's making a big deal about it

far more than 5 3:0's occur every season, no reason why they couldn't occur at the start
Whenever I encounter some little hitch, or some of my orbs get out of orbit, nothing pleases me so much as to make the crooked straight and crush down uneven places. www.day9.tv
Mastermind
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Canada7096 Posts
April 14 2009 07:27 GMT
#11
On April 14 2009 14:19 Grobyc wrote:
Well isn't it the losing teams fault for not fully understanding the maps?

I don't see how the maps are to blame.

Anyway, thanks for the translation!

I agree. How can anyone blame the maps? The teams who dont understand the maps are the ones to be blamed.

On April 14 2009 16:19 Scaramanga wrote:
"the team with a greater, deeper player pool and an absolute ace player has shown that they are superior by producing 3:0 victories"
kinda sucks for ktf if their absolute ace player doesnt get to play T_T

i dont think that is quite what was meant. If the team has the ace player analyzing the map, then that team should do well because all players will benefit from that analysis and practice with the ace player. At least that is how I interpreted it.
GTR
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
51574 Posts
April 14 2009 07:32 GMT
#12
On April 14 2009 16:24 Day[9] wrote:
this is hardly a statistical anomaly

dunno why anyone's making a big deal about it

far more than 5 3:0's occur every season, no reason why they couldn't occur at the start


lets just say korean media got bored and decided this was a 'worthwhile' topic to talk about
Commentator
polarwolf
Profile Blog Joined February 2006
924 Posts
April 14 2009 11:18 GMT
#13
+ Show Spoiler +

today's matches were 3:0's also, so you might take a second look at that now.
meegrean
Profile Joined May 2008
Thailand7699 Posts
April 14 2009 11:34 GMT
#14
Blame the teams, not the maps
Brood War loyalist
mIsUZu
Profile Joined August 2008
New Zealand528 Posts
April 14 2009 12:00 GMT
#15
most new maps are protoss killers imo..
Why So Serious?!
infinity2k9
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom2397 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-14 13:12:35
April 14 2009 12:08 GMT
#16
gods garden is good for protoss. outsider doesnt look too bad either. medusa is still of course good for protoss.
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-14 23:22:06
April 14 2009 23:19 GMT
#17
On April 14 2009 20:18 polarwolf wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

today's matches were 3:0's also, so you might take a second look at that now.


+ Show Spoiler +
yea its insane now its 6/7

... although I still think this is gonna change relatively soon when all the teams know how theyre supposed to play on those maps
beep boop
dhe95
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States1213 Posts
April 14 2009 23:47 GMT
#18
I hate God's garden. I think the main has 2 ramps that each leads to gas expos? And I liked tempest's play in Battle Royale, and Outsider basically is asking for mass dropship play, it almost is like an island map. And I don't think progamers should see that much of a difference on Neo Medusa because it is basically medusa with the ability to build in the middle, so expect stronger terran pushes.
funnybananaman
Profile Joined April 2009
United States830 Posts
April 15 2009 00:36 GMT
#19
once the teams get used to the new maps, i think the results should even out. on a side note, i hope to see something other than ZvZ action on battle royal, because i feel like many of the cool features of that map are irrelevant in ZvZ
Aurioch
Profile Joined January 2009
United States414 Posts
April 15 2009 07:04 GMT
#20
Didn't Samsung Khan lost 0 - 3 instead of winning 3 - 0?
My life for aiur
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