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iloveoov: The Greatest Genius - Page 14

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
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Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
January 31 2011 14:28 GMT
#261
You need to write something epic about Flash.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
xxpack09
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States2160 Posts
January 31 2011 14:33 GMT
#262
oov vs July Shinhan finals is another great example of the wonders of mental preparation. Only one of two finals ever won on pure mental domination, the other being Flash vs Stork Bacchus, oov trounced his old enemy July in 3 mostly one-sided games.

+ Show Spoiler +
Make that 3 finals.

Though of course, Fantasy/Stork had oov written all damn over it. It was sheer brilliance
soccercop
Profile Joined August 2006
Fiji305 Posts
January 31 2011 14:40 GMT
#263
I mean I want to read Ver's version on Savior. Please post it here or on new thread. thanks.
To defy your destiny makes you indestructible
qrs
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3637 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-31 15:30:53
January 31 2011 15:30 GMT
#264
On January 31 2011 08:01 Ver wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 14 2011 11:13 KezseN wrote:
Is there one written by Ver about savior? He said he'll make one soon. Gona see if there's any lying around.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=88843
That's the one for savior.. I can't seem to find any others about him. Or I'm blind..


It may or may not be released in April or sometime this century, I don't know nor care anymore.
Is that just because you lost interest after so long or is it because of the match-fixing scandal?
'As per the American Heart Association, the beat of the Bee Gees song "Stayin' Alive" provides an ideal rhythm in terms of beats per minute to use for hands-only CPR. One can also hum Queen's "Another One Bites The Dust".' —Wikipedia
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
January 31 2011 15:33 GMT
#265
On January 31 2011 23:33 xxpack09 wrote:
oov vs July Shinhan finals is another great example of the wonders of mental preparation. Only one of two finals ever won on pure mental domination, the other being Flash vs Stork Bacchus, oov trounced his old enemy July in 3 mostly one-sided games.

+ Show Spoiler +
Make that 3 finals.

Though of course, Fantasy/Stork had oov written all damn over it. It was sheer brilliance

I'd say July vs Best is there as well.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
Caos2
Profile Joined November 2008
United States1728 Posts
January 31 2011 17:28 GMT
#266
On February 01 2011 00:33 Holgerius wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 31 2011 23:33 xxpack09 wrote:
oov vs July Shinhan finals is another great example of the wonders of mental preparation. Only one of two finals ever won on pure mental domination, the other being Flash vs Stork Bacchus, oov trounced his old enemy July in 3 mostly one-sided games.

+ Show Spoiler +
Make that 3 finals.

Though of course, Fantasy/Stork had oov written all damn over it. It was sheer brilliance

I'd say July vs Best is there as well.


I remember July saying that he never had the mental edge, that's why he trash talked in the pre-game interviews. He must have learned it from oov, the hard way.
hitthat
Profile Joined January 2010
Poland2349 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-31 18:18:14
January 31 2011 18:16 GMT
#267
On January 31 2011 07:26 legaton wrote:
Oh man, after rewatching the games from the OSL finals and just had to bump this thread again to pay my respects to Iloveoov. He was the man that modeled Fantasy, + Show Spoiler +
he's the genius behind Fantasy's gameplan and Fantasy's first victory at OSL shows just how intelligent iloveoov still is. The two first games were blind counters to Stork, giving him an enormous BO edge, and i'm certain that the last game map abuse was also designed by him.


Show nested quote +
In just 8 months, complete transformation from a nobody [Fantasy] to an almost royal roader. And you're looking at the reason right here.


+ Show Spoiler +
And this time, it's actually true


I'm not going to take anything from OOv's as mentor, but ironicaly, the most important and influental Fantasy's design- his contribution to modern late terran play against Zerg (with heavy or even crucial cooperation with Flash) , was not OOv's invention at all. It was the thing that came from pure desperation. Remember his tank banking, that everybody were lauthing at from first untill it somehow worked? He made that to survive the legendary SPL final game vs JD after his initial plan totaly broke after dissastrous sunken break. Later it evolved with many variants (denchanic f.e., that was fantasy's own design, what fantasy confirmed) and now late transition to mech is standard answer against zerg hive tech.
But even that shows how great genius he is. He totally changed Fantasy's mindset to let him think unconventionally. That what makes him the greatest terran mind in the history.
Shameless BroodWar separatistic, elitist, fanaticaly devoted puritan fanboy.
Ver
Profile Joined October 2008
United States2186 Posts
January 31 2011 19:38 GMT
#268
On January 31 2011 23:28 Holgerius wrote:
You need to write something epic about Flash.


Already been started awhile ago and now with my motivation back it will get finished. ETA is who knows.

On February 01 2011 00:30 qrs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 31 2011 08:01 Ver wrote:
On January 14 2011 11:13 KezseN wrote:
Is there one written by Ver about savior? He said he'll make one soon. Gona see if there's any lying around.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=88843
That's the one for savior.. I can't seem to find any others about him. Or I'm blind..


It may or may not be released in April or sometime this century, I don't know nor care anymore.
Is that just because you lost interest after so long or is it because of the match-fixing scandal?


Not allowed/postponed due to matchfixing scandal. It's been done since the day before the scandal broke.

On February 01 2011 02:28 Caos2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 01 2011 00:33 Holgerius wrote:
On January 31 2011 23:33 xxpack09 wrote:
oov vs July Shinhan finals is another great example of the wonders of mental preparation. Only one of two finals ever won on pure mental domination, the other being Flash vs Stork Bacchus, oov trounced his old enemy July in 3 mostly one-sided games.

+ Show Spoiler +
Make that 3 finals.

Though of course, Fantasy/Stork had oov written all damn over it. It was sheer brilliance

I'd say July vs Best is there as well.


I remember July saying that he never had the mental edge, that's why he trash talked in the pre-game interviews. He must have learned it from oov, the hard way.


Yeah July credited his past series with nada and oov in shaping his play for Ever '08. It was pretty funny how both players won in very similar ways 3-0 (iops/shinhan bank 0).

On February 01 2011 03:16 hitthat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 31 2011 07:26 legaton wrote:
Oh man, after rewatching the games from the OSL finals and just had to bump this thread again to pay my respects to Iloveoov. He was the man that modeled Fantasy, + Show Spoiler +
he's the genius behind Fantasy's gameplan and Fantasy's first victory at OSL shows just how intelligent iloveoov still is. The two first games were blind counters to Stork, giving him an enormous BO edge, and i'm certain that the last game map abuse was also designed by him.


In just 8 months, complete transformation from a nobody [Fantasy] to an almost royal roader. And you're looking at the reason right here.


+ Show Spoiler +
And this time, it's actually true


I'm not going to take anything from OOv's as mentor, but ironicaly, the most important and influental Fantasy's design- his contribution to modern late terran play against Zerg (with heavy or even crucial cooperation with Flash) , was not OOv's invention at all. It was the thing that came from pure desperation. Remember his tank banking, that everybody were lauthing at from first untill it somehow worked? He made that to survive the legendary SPL final game vs JD after his initial plan totaly broke after dissastrous sunken break. Later it evolved with many variants (denchanic f.e., that was fantasy's own design, what fantasy confirmed) and now late transition to mech is standard answer against zerg hive tech.
But even that shows how great genius he is. He totally changed Fantasy's mindset to let him think unconventionally. That what makes him the greatest terran mind in the history.


The funny thing is oov was doing a very similar lategame mass tank defense idea back in 2005, eg here and here. Pretty crazy isn't it?

But in actuality the lategame mech switch was from midas (a really underrated innovator) and fantasy. Fantasy did it once against zero in january '10 then midas started doing a more refined version every game in feburary and beyond. That bio -> mech switch around defiler timing is much different from the sk terran -> fast 4th with switch into 3-4 fact tanks that was shown in fantasy/jaedong and then further developed by flash against calm and others.

Ultimately it's really hard to judge oov's exact influence on fantasy except when he gets credited for a build. Fantasy is hardly a robot obeying orders, but at the same time like you said, the fantasy who never had oov as a coach would think completely differently and wouldn't even be a comparable player. You clearly notice a lot of similarities with their series approaches as well: I don't think it's a coincidence that fantasy is an absolute monster in series but very inconsistent in single games. The extent of his influence is more certain with people like canata who are mediocre their entire career, never getting anywhere in leagues then suddenly makes msl ro8 and comes within inches of knocking out jaedong with very clear oov builds.
Liquipedia
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
January 31 2011 20:16 GMT
#269
On February 01 2011 04:38 Ver wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 31 2011 23:28 Holgerius wrote:
You need to write something epic about Flash.


Already been started awhile ago and now with my motivation back it will get finished. ETA is who knows.

Cool, I'm really looking forward to that.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
Armathai
Profile Joined October 2007
1023 Posts
January 31 2011 20:28 GMT
#270
Awesome stuff, just read this for the first time Ver! Incredible writeup, oov truly was the mastermind of mindfucking.

Can't wait to see the brilliance you've got hidden for Savior and Flash, your writing is amazing Ver!
Looking for ArcticCerebrate formerly from @USEast
Raii
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Philippines194 Posts
January 31 2011 20:34 GMT
#271
It's amazing how oov, as tall as he was, did not try playing basketball. lol
I guess Starcraft is his destiny
Interesting comeback. How long did it take you make one?
darklordjac
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada2231 Posts
January 31 2011 20:55 GMT
#272
Great writeup, happy that someone dug this up.
Thorin
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
601 Posts
January 31 2011 21:13 GMT
#273
This article was the one which originally got me into BW due to how epic it made the rivalries of the elite players seem. I'd also love to see a sAviOr one now that his career has come to an end and the whole story is written.
EtherealDeath
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States8366 Posts
January 31 2011 21:30 GMT
#274
This bump took me back to this great article ^^

Making me feel old... how long ago this seemed. Can't wait for you to get your Flash article done Ver!
arew
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Lithuania1861 Posts
January 31 2011 21:37 GMT
#275
Wow, what an amazing read. Wondering, how I haven't found this before O_O
Well done, really enjoyed reading this!
750/750 emotions fully stacked
Mumei
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States270 Posts
January 31 2011 21:57 GMT
#276
I really enjoyed this. I remember when I first got into watching StarCraft replays, back when it was possible to consistently find replays of top Korean players like Boxer, Yellow, Nada, iloveoov, as well as a number of well-known foreign players (not to mention fake replays aplenty). Even then, iloveoov's ability to get out units impressed me even though I was watching in a vacuum - before I knew about TL or what the MSL / OSL were or what PL (or whatever the precursor to that was called). Nada was the same way - his M&M and Science Vessels against Zerg, which I later learned was called SK Terran, seemed invincible, with his exceedingly rare losses to Zerg seeming like mere flukes.

Since getting back into StarCraft, I've really enjoyed reading articles like this and TLFE's that detail the side of StarCraft that I missed when I was in my early teens - the development of new strategies that I missed when watching mostly for the entertainment value of watching impressive micro / macro and big battles, the human side of the rivalries, and so forth.

Excellent article, and I look forward to the Flash article you said you're working on.
AKomrade
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States582 Posts
February 12 2011 19:33 GMT
#277
Awesome article! Glad there is something like this on the best T player of all time ^^
ALL HAIL THE KING IN THE NORTH! HAIL! HAIL!
vOdToasT
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Sweden2870 Posts
February 12 2011 20:37 GMT
#278
Wow, thanks for bumping this. I didn't see this when it came out.
If it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid* (*Or: You are stupid for losing to it, and gotta git gud)
intotheheart
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada33091 Posts
February 12 2011 21:11 GMT
#279
FanTaSy vs. Stork in 2008 and 2011...

Isn't that just the heir of the BoxeR lineage vs. the heir of the yellOw lineage..? Stork's no Nal_rA... but I would love to see him get the Silver Badge...

BoxeR hand-picked oov for a reason, and I guess that this was it. oov's simply the deepest-impacting Terran in history. Just like Shark for Zerg and... uh. Don't know any Protoss equivalents really. Maybe rA.
kiss kiss fall in love
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
February 12 2011 21:28 GMT
#280
On February 13 2011 06:11 IntoTheheart wrote:
FanTaSy vs. Stork in 2008 and 2011...

Isn't that just the heir of the BoxeR lineage vs. the heir of the yellOw lineage..? Stork's no Nal_rA... but I would love to see him get the Silver Badge...

BoxeR hand-picked oov for a reason, and I guess that this was it. oov's simply the deepest-impacting Terran in history. Just like Shark for Zerg and... uh. Don't know any Protoss equivalents really. Maybe rA.


I'd say KIMDONGWOO is one of the deepest-impacting Zergs since he coached GoRush, Savior, Effort, and now Hydra.
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