EPTPimpest play corsair control
We have never seen corsair micro like this before.
Does anyone know how he did it? I have my hypotheses but I'm not certain.
Gosu P users: enlighten us.
Pimpest Play corsair micro
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vOdToasT
Sweden2870 Posts
Pimpest play corsair control We have never seen corsair micro like this before. Does anyone know how he did it? I have my hypotheses but I'm not certain. Gosu P users: enlighten us. | ||
Peeano
Netherlands5929 Posts
Some other cool things you may have missed are SH carrier micro and stacked recall. I assume you know about valkyie patrol micro. If not, check that out too. | ||
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XenOsky
Chile2358 Posts
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
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LUCKY_NOOB
Bulgaria1603 Posts
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oBlade
United States6540 Posts
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
What happens is that all air units have turn speed and some sort of velocity towards a direction. When you click in a triangle really fast with air units the unit will "dance". It will not lose its velocity towards the original direction but spin around anyway and thats the moment it gets the chance to shoot once until it starts moving (visually) in the original direction again. Valk/Devourer micro is the same but they are shoot once then long pause. Sair has to do this spin frequently to be useful. You can do another dance this way: Move sair towards direction West, click south-southeast then quickly north-northeast and repeat. What will happen is the sair will keep moving West while visually never moving West, rather looking like its moving East. From a coding perspective this is logical as ground units stands still when turning while air units do not and that would look ugly. 'Turning velocity' is probably the word im looking for. This turning also fools scourges as they have a vector collision prediction that makes em stop as they think sair turned around and collision is imminent. This calculation what i can visually see happens a few frames apart (nearly a second) so if you do this turn at the wrong time (just after prediction has been done) there is a big chance of hitting the scourge because its flying towards you at high speed until it does a new calculation. This can be heavily abused and you can visually see when it happens by going in circles with your sair having scourge chasing you. You will notice the scourge always lagging behind because it tries to hit you at your old location which is not the newest one as you keep turning in a circle. This is also how you muta micro vs scourge in a circle. You attack as this calculation is done. A neat trick to gain space from scourge is to turn sharp left then quickly right. Scourge predicts a collision in a triangle to the left and goes there meanwhile you turn the other direction and gets great distance away. Edit: Replay https://ufile.io/xsl344m8 at the final seconds you can see Carrier 'facing' West but moving East. Explanation: ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/RpMx9DL.png) Without looking at the code, this could be misinformation but i highly doubt it according to testing  I did a similar explanation here which is just as pretty: https://tl.net/forum/bw-strategy/567296-hard-time-with-patrol-air-micro | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
 I can almost picture Maverick waking up from cryogenic sleep, jumping into the cockpit of corsairs and valks, and gunning down scourges to defend Earth from a Zerg invasion... BTW who's the Protoss player from the OP video? Pretty insane skills all round to beat Queen! | ||
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Return
Ivory Coast859 Posts
On January 06 2023 18:34 RKC wrote: Great diagram and explanation, Professor MeSaber! I can almost picture Maverick waking up from cryogenic sleep, jumping into the cockpit of corsairs and valks, and gunning down scourges to defend Earth from a Zerg invasion... BTW who's the Protoss player from the OP video? Pretty insane skills all round to beat Queen! mini | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
Not surprising. Only mini and Bisu can play such high-tempo aggro style against a top Zerg like Queen. Hope he comes back stronger next ASL! | ||
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LUCKY_NOOB
Bulgaria1603 Posts
On January 05 2023 07:50 MeSaber wrote: The micro of sair is difficult to explain but easy to show. What happens is that all air units have turn speed and some sort of velocity towards a direction. When you click in a triangle really fast with air units the unit will "dance". It will not lose its velocity towards the original direction but spin around anyway and thats the moment it gets the chance to shoot once until it starts moving (visually) in the original direction again. Valk/Devourer micro is the same but they are shoot once then long pause. Sair has to do this spin frequently to be useful. You can do another dance this way: Move sair towards direction West, click south-southeast then quickly north-northeast and repeat. What will happen is the sair will keep moving West while visually never moving West, rather looking like its moving East. From a coding perspective this is logical as ground units stands still when turning while air units do not and that would look ugly. 'Turning velocity' is probably the word im looking for. This turning also fools scourges as they have a vector collision prediction that makes em stop as they think sair turned around and collision is imminent. This calculation what i can visually see happens a few frames apart (nearly a second) so if you do this turn at the wrong time (just after prediction has been done) there is a big chance of hitting the scourge because its flying towards you at high speed until it does a new calculation. This can be heavily abused and you can visually see when it happens by going in circles with your sair having scourge chasing you. You will notice the scourge always lagging behind because it tries to hit you at your old location which is not the newest one as you keep turning in a circle. This is also how you muta micro vs scourge in a circle. You attack as this calculation is done. A neat trick to gain space from scourge is to turn sharp left then quickly right. Scourge predicts a collision in a triangle to the left and goes there meanwhile you turn the other direction and gets great distance away. Edit: Replay https://ufile.io/xsl344m8 at the final seconds you can see Carrier 'facing' West but moving East. Explanation: Without looking at the code, this could be misinformation but i highly doubt it according to testing I did a similar explanation here which is just as pretty: https://tl.net/forum/bw-strategy/567296-hard-time-with-patrol-air-micro Very nice explanation. But with long range units you are increasing the attack rate this way especially for Devourers while keeping out of range. At least that's what I think the big deal was last time this was discussed in detail. I always keep MeSaber on, when dealing with Sith magic! ^_._^ | ||
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TMNT
3378 Posts
On January 07 2023 16:30 RKC wrote: Not surprising. Only mini and Bisu can play such high-tempo aggro style against a top Zerg like Queen. Hope he comes back stronger next ASL! Queen's reaction in that clip is so funny. Hands off the keyboard, "did this mf just pull that on me?" | ||
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
On January 08 2023 00:49 LUCKY_NOOB wrote: Very nice explanation. But with long range units you are increasing the attack rate this way especially for Devourers while keeping out of range. At least that's what I think the big deal was last time this was discussed in detail. I always keep MeSaber on, when dealing with Sith magic! ^_._^ Thats indeed the purpose with valk at least, to gain more space to be able to shoot more, possibly outmicro your opponent and gain a hefty advantage. There is also a case where valk gives back controls before completing firing cycle if range is too far. I havent figured out exactly how to manipulate this yet. When thats cracked you could shoot with valks and move em wherever you want meanwhile still shooting | ||
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LUCKY_NOOB
Bulgaria1603 Posts
On January 08 2023 06:22 MeSaber wrote: Thats indeed the purpose with valk at least, to gain more space to be able to shoot more, possibly outmicro your opponent and gain a hefty advantage. There is also a case where valk gives back controls before completing firing cycle if range is too far. I havent figured out exactly how to manipulate this yet. When thats cracked you could shoot with valks and move em wherever you want meanwhile still shooting Maybe the problem where they wouldn't shoot was actually the solution to them being supermicroed.... It was ALL part of the grand plan!!! | ||
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
On January 08 2023 07:18 LUCKY_NOOB wrote: Maybe the problem where they wouldn't shoot was actually the solution to them being supermicroed.... It was ALL part of the grand plan!!! That sprite limit bug still isnt fixed with "extended unit limit". Still get the same issue in some games. But yes if it didnt bug out it certainly would be an overpowered unit. Its way stronger than sair. | ||
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TT1
Canada10090 Posts
u can slow it down to 0.25 speed to see the exact clicks/micro basically u have to be in a certain angle vs the scourges and u hit patrol > click back (to make the sairs spin) | ||
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Freakling
Germany1534 Posts
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
On January 10 2023 19:57 Freakling wrote: Isn't it always the same principle as in the "Chinese Triangle" Muta micro? With Valkyrie/Devourer you need to Patrol away from your opponent and with Corsair towards but with an instant Move command after to throw off the firing-animation stun. Probably more to it than that but it takes time (for me at least) to investigate Valkyrie seems special as it never fails to shoot after a Patrol command no matter the attack angle used. But with Wraiths and other air units its different, a too straight approach towards the target fails to shoot. Valkyries shooting arc seems very large too. It can attack in 45° angle. ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/dCZ5BHG.png) My guesses based on your explanation of order processing is that when you send a Patrol command there is a gap until it checks for targets in the shooting arc and that causes it to jump over the target and it ends up outside the arc, as compared to Valkyries arc that is bigger it will always have the target in the arc when turning for each order processing cycle. ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/G106T7x.png) Ive not done any testing with Corsair and its arc (yet). You can observe this behaviour here: https://repmastered.app/game/XyZ1tv3dLHb873D-RqtHrdwODgJ7f_eU74ig6XDEnSw (SinglePlayer replay) Where Wraith bugs out in a too straight angle and Valkyrie do not.  | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands5929 Posts
Awesome work though. It would be super interesting to make good graphics for this, that clearly show the units, the attack range and radius angles. | ||
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vOdToasT
Sweden2870 Posts
Valkyrie seems special as it never fails to shoot after a Patrol command no matter the attack angle used. That is not true. I can get it to fail and show you. It causes the valkyrie to jerk, but it doesn't fire. The only unit I know of that will always successfully fire when you patrol, regardless of where it's facing and where the target is, is the vulture That sprite limit bug still isnt fixed with "extended unit limit". Still get the same issue in some games. There is still a limit, but it's higher now | ||
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