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On August 17 2016 02:20 opisska wrote:
I have seen some BW videos in the past, but the convenience of being broadcasted on GSL stream made me watch my first ever realtime BW match today.
What surprised me the most was that there were no information apart from the gameplay - not even overall supply and resources. Is that a deliberate choice, or a technological limitation of observing in BW? I don't want to start any discussion as to what is better, I am simply curious how this is.
Its a sweet limitation of the game. Welcome to BW world 
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On August 17 2016 02:25 TAKK.borg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2016 02:20 opisska wrote:
I have seen some BW videos in the past, but the convenience of being broadcasted on GSL stream made me watch my first ever realtime BW match today.
What surprised me the most was that there were no information apart from the gameplay - not even overall supply and resources. Is that a deliberate choice, or a technological limitation of observing in BW? I don't want to start any discussion as to what is better, I am simply curious how this is. Its a sweet limitation of the game. Welcome to BW world
So it can't be worked around? Even with some external tools maybe? I know that BW has a lot of limitations, but I also know that there are these "plugins" that essentially hack the game's memory, so they could be able to show statistics, right? Or has just noone bothered, because people like it this way?
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On August 17 2016 02:20 opisska wrote:
I have seen some BW videos in the past, but the convenience of being broadcasted on GSL stream made me watch my first ever realtime BW match today.
What surprised me the most was that there were no information apart from the gameplay - not even overall supply and resources. Is that a deliberate choice, or a technological limitation of observing in BW? I don't want to start any discussion as to what is better, I am simply curious how this is.
Its deliberate to a point. There are tools that show you supply and resources and for an organization like the GSL it would also be possible to use some other technique to show these information somewhere. If you look at some of the foreigner casts like the ICCUP BWTV youtube channel you will see all kinds of information being displayed like unit counts and what not.
Its certainly much less than what SC2 offers and where available its representation is also of lower quality.
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Anyway, how did u guys feel today while GSL was casting?
I felt warmth around my heart when I saw BW in top 10 games on Twitch, among GTA, Lol, dota ...etc and way ahead of sc2.. It was 7.5k viewers at one point. I expect 10k+ viewvers on finals. :-D
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I thought the casting was very bad from a game knowledge point of view and it irked me very much.
1st game: Don't even point out that opening CC first is not standard, Don't even point out that hero's 2 hatch play is very unorthodox.
2nd game: Repeatedly heard 3 hatch opening from 1 of the casters while it was clearly a 2 hatch opening. Then at some point the same caster mentioned 5 hatcheries when Hero only had 3?
Continuous misjudging situations (Oh no 2 lings enter the main, this might be gg lol). Not even knowing dark swarm doesn't protect buildings from being sniped. Talking about hold position lurkers when everyone just attacks a building in the fog of war instead. Droning on about how hero is so far ahead + Show Spoiler [possible spoiler] + when he was left with 6 drones mining versus something like 14-18 SCVs.
And please don't provide any excuses. They are professional casters. It's their job.
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Not defending but the glorious tasteless and artosis are not any better. If we need casters with real knowledge it will be bisudagger and xkcd or sayle. Where is sayle anyway? Didn't he cast anything beyond SSL 11?
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The thread listed another cast going on with xkcd and bisudagger indeed - should I watch that next time instead of the GSL casters, if I want to understand the games better?
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Poland2042 Posts
Maybe I should do some casts again.. hmm.
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On August 17 2016 03:13 Wrath wrote:
Not defending but the glorious tasteless and artosis are not any better. If we need casters with real knowledge it will be bisudagger and xkcd or sayle. Where is sayle anyway? Didn't he cast anything beyond SSL 11?
uhh yes they are better
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Sure the casters didn't have great game knowledge and made mistakes but they had fine attitude. I think voice skills (tone and rythm) are important for casters and they have that. Rapid seems to enjoy himself quite a bit casting BW which is cool to hear. Plus I think it's good that others cast BW so they gain experience casting it. Tasteless has great attitude and passion of BW so even if he's bit out of touch with the game nowadays I think he still makes great casts.
Being very knowledgeable on the game is a big plus for a caster but it balances with voice attitude and personality I think. For example a few casters constantly criticize players decisions which can feel pretty bad.
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On August 17 2016 03:40 Kau wrote:Aw man B-Royal, were those spoilers?  I edited out the possible spoilers, just in case.
Oh shit man I'm sorry, first time doing this. Will never happen again.
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Netherlands5963 Posts
If we're debating casters, Cats_Paw deserves a mention. He might not have cast Koreans players before, but I think he is one of the better active casters. Analytically strong, easy to listen to, nice attitude and a good speaker in general.
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GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
On August 17 2016 04:16 Peeano wrote:
If we're debating casters, Cats_Paw deserves a mention. He might not have cast Koreans players before, but I think he is one of the better active casters. Analytically strong, easy to listen to, nice attitude and a good speaker in general.
can confirm. Always fun to cast with
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GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
On August 17 2016 03:14 opisska wrote:
The thread listed another cast going on with xkcd and bisudagger indeed - should I watch that next time instead of the GSL casters, if I want to understand the games better?
we provide the high quality BW casting (well since we've been doing it for a super long time now). Our stream is quite comfortable too 
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On August 17 2016 03:04 B-royal wrote:I thought the casting was very bad from a game knowledge point of view and it irked me very much. 1st game: Don't even point out that opening CC first is not standard, Don't even point out that hero's 2 hatch play is very unorthodox. 2nd game: Repeatedly heard 3 hatch opening from 1 of the casters while it was clearly a 2 hatch opening. Then at some point the same caster mentioned 5 hatcheries when Hero only had 3? Continuous misjudging situations (Oh no 2 lings enter the main, this might be gg lol). Not even knowing dark swarm doesn't protect buildings from being sniped. Talking about hold position lurkers when everyone just attacks a building in the fog of war instead. Droning on about how hero is so far ahead + Show Spoiler [possible spoiler] + when he was left with 6 drones mining versus something like 14-18 SCVs. And please don't provide any excuses. They are professional casters. It's their job.
I had no issues with the cast until the 2nd game when they kept saying "Hero opening 3 hatch!" and I'm just like where is the third hatch?!?! I see 2 hatch and a pool which is standard. They continued to repeat three hatch until they reached 5 hatch. Which maybe the observer didn't show us the extra hatches but I couldn't tell from the mini-map.
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On August 17 2016 03:04 B-royal wrote:I thought the casting was very bad from a game knowledge point of view and it irked me very much. 1st game: Don't even point out that opening CC first is not standard, Don't even point out that hero's 2 hatch play is very unorthodox. 2nd game: Repeatedly heard 3 hatch opening from 1 of the casters while it was clearly a 2 hatch opening. Then at some point the same caster mentioned 5 hatcheries when Hero only had 3? Continuous misjudging situations (Oh no 2 lings enter the main, this might be gg lol). Not even knowing dark swarm doesn't protect buildings from being sniped. Talking about hold position lurkers when everyone just attacks a building in the fog of war instead. Droning on about how hero is so far ahead + Show Spoiler [possible spoiler] + when he was left with 6 drones mining versus something like 14-18 SCVs. And please don't provide any excuses. They are professional casters. It's their job.
There is one positive thing to mention, at least they translate the interviews. During the games it is probably better to listen to the Korean cast if you played BW on ICCUP before.
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On August 17 2016 02:34 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2016 02:25 TAKK.borg wrote:On August 17 2016 02:20 opisska wrote:
I have seen some BW videos in the past, but the convenience of being broadcasted on GSL stream made me watch my first ever realtime BW match today.
What surprised me the most was that there were no information apart from the gameplay - not even overall supply and resources. Is that a deliberate choice, or a technological limitation of observing in BW? I don't want to start any discussion as to what is better, I am simply curious how this is. Its a sweet limitation of the game. Welcome to BW world So it can't be worked around? Even with some external tools maybe? I know that BW has a lot of limitations, but I also know that there are these "plugins" that essentially hack the game's memory, so they could be able to show statistics, right? Or has just noone bothered, because people like it this way?
Yes there are plugins that show supply, resources, APM, timer, etc. in obs mode (or hacks that show it all the time!)
Many pro players I see have an in-game timer which I think is cheating but w/e.
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On August 17 2016 10:01 Jonoman92 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2016 02:34 opisska wrote:On August 17 2016 02:25 TAKK.borg wrote:On August 17 2016 02:20 opisska wrote:
I have seen some BW videos in the past, but the convenience of being broadcasted on GSL stream made me watch my first ever realtime BW match today.
What surprised me the most was that there were no information apart from the gameplay - not even overall supply and resources. Is that a deliberate choice, or a technological limitation of observing in BW? I don't want to start any discussion as to what is better, I am simply curious how this is. Its a sweet limitation of the game. Welcome to BW world So it can't be worked around? Even with some external tools maybe? I know that BW has a lot of limitations, but I also know that there are these "plugins" that essentially hack the game's memory, so they could be able to show statistics, right? Or has just noone bothered, because people like it this way? Yes there are plugins that show supply, resources, APM, timer, etc. in obs mode (or hacks that show it all the time!) Many pro players I see have an in-game timer which I think is cheating but w/e.
At least a quarter of the Korean streamers use *two* ingame timers, stacked directly on top of each other I definitely used to be on the side of not allowing ingame timers (you can find my posts debating adding it to APMAlert from like 2008 or whatever), but at this point I feel mostly that A) it doesn't really provide much of an advantage, and B) if it *did* provide an advantage, it'd be far too easy to exploit undetectably by like... having a clock beside your monitor, so seems better if everyone just has access to it if they so desire.
Most of the later starleagues did include an overlay that showed player minerals/gas/supply. For whatever reason, recent tournaments/leagues haven't been using them. I assume this is more out of convenience/lack of software to do it than a deliberate desire to hide the information.
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On August 17 2016 03:13 Wrath wrote:
Not defending but the glorious tasteless and artosis are not any better. If we need casters with real knowledge it will be bisudagger and xkcd or sayle. Where is sayle anyway? Didn't he cast anything beyond SSL 11?
Tasteless and Artosis are incredible BW casters what are you smoking :/
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EPT
