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Smix
United States4549 Posts
Today's winner is . . . ![[image loading]](http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/9243/jaedong3.jpg) The dong. <3 hustlin hustlin hustlin~
Hwaseung OZ's  Jaedong, "I'll prepare with a more resolute heart than ever before"""I can't leave Flash alone to win both titles"![[image loading]](http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/4197/jaedong2.jpg) smug jaedong picture from fomos.kr
Q Your feelings on making the finals?
A During the middle of the season I was in a bit of a slump but I think I’ve recovered and was thus able to succeed in getting to the finals. In the beginning of the season I revealed that my goal was to win the whole thing, and now that I’ve made the finals I believe I’m halfway there. The remaining half I will show during the finals match.
Q What did you focus on while preparing for the semis?
A I put in a lot of effort into trying to play differently from my past zvzs. I especially did this since Calm’s nickname is “Brain” zerg, since he comes up with strategic builds and plays mindgames a lot. In order not to fall behind in that area, I worked very hard.
Q You’ve made the MSL finals two seasons in a row.
A I’m very happy that I was able to get to the finals for two consecutive seasons. There were a lot of parts in last season’s victory I was regretful about. I’m definitely craving the victory again this season so this time in my own style I’ll make sure to play amazing games that I can finish with no regrets. I’ll practice very hard so please look forward to it.
Q In the finals you’re going to be playing  Flash.
A Flash’s current form and momentum is so great he definitely has the right to hold the title of “strongest player”. It’s funny that I meet Flash in such important games... makes things so dramatic. The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is. Because Flash is in such great shape and is ranked 1st, this season feels very different from last season. Though I did win last season, with the mindset that I'm the challenger this season, I’ll work very hard. Please look forward to next week’s games.
Q Don't you think you're being overly modest. Please tell us something so that we know you're confident~
A I think we're all in a very important period right now. Both Flash and I are doing well lately. Though Flash is making a run for both league titles, I can’t just leave him alone to do that. That's something I personally won't allow. Though I can't do anything about the OSL, with at least the MSL where he'll be facing me, I refuse to give that up to him. Just as this is a finals that holds a lot of meaning, I’ll gain an even more resolute heart that ever before and prepare.
Q You got revenge today for last year's Avalon MSL semis.
A If I were to look back on myself a year ago, though I was immensely confident I also felt very burdened. For this semi match as I was preparing to play Calm, because I knew I’d be playing a difficult opponent who’s beaten me before, I did a lot of thinking. Because I feel like the amount of studying I did paid off and that I proved I am at a level above him, I’m very happy.
Q In the 2nd set, you 5 pooled.
A Calm is called the “Brain” zerg. Because I didn’t want to lose in mind-games, I took a risky chance. Though I was a bit nervous that the strategy wouldn’t work, I thought to myself that I would at least need that amount of guts if I were to pull through the rest of the match. I was also planning on 5 pooling in the 2nd set even if I lost the 1st set.
Q You won the 4th set narrowly.
A Because Calm invested in two sunken colonies, he was in a poor economic state. I’ve experienced that situation many times, so I played as I predicted how he would act next and I think this helped a lot.
Q Generally, how did you decide on what to do in your sets?
A In the 1st set, I planned on winning through sheer ability. My 1st set win didn’t have a large influence on my 2nd set. I was still a bit nervous for the 2nd set. Because I felt a pressured being in a position of consecutive wins, though I tried to stay mentally strong during the 3rd set, because of small errors on my part I regretfully ended up losing the game.
Q How was your condition today?
A My condition was pretty good but I was a bit nervous because I felt like I hadn’t prepared as much as my opponent had, but still, I’m satisfied with my gameplay today. The more you play BoX matches, the more you learn. Because I gained a lot of confidence through today’s games, I believe I will also be able to produce good results in the finals as well.
Q How do you predict the OSL finals will go?
A EffOrt’s in really good shape lately. I saw the recent game between Flash vs. EffOrt and EffOrt won. EffOrt’s playing so well lately that it makes it hard to predict what will happen in the finals so I honestly don’t know how things will go.
Q Words you want to say?
A Before I even arrived at the stadium today, I told my coach that I was going to 5 pool in the second set today. Personally I wasn’t 100% sure it would work but my coach replied “It’ll work well. Do a good job.” Also, on the way here he gave me a lot of good advice and it gave me a lot of strength. I’m so thankful to him for that. I also want to say thank you to my team’s zerg as well as wemade’s RorO and Shine for helping me practice.
At the stadium today, so many people came to support me. Throughout my games, it was of huge strength to me. I don’t think I’ve ever been so resolute as I face a finals match. Against a great opponent, I’ll show amazing games so I hope many fans will come to the finals match and support me.
source: daily esports with bits and pieces from fomos
Huge props to JD's sexy play today.
LEESSANGROK FINALS UPCOMING BABY~ Let's hope for some epic games 
As always, feedback welcome and appreciated!
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Thank you Smix!
Words cannot describe how hyped I am for the MSL finals...
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Calm ;(
thanks for translating!
I was rooting for calm soo hard :C... Damnit ;(
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Awesome, thanks for the translation!
I'm not too sure about this statement though: "The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is."
If Flash wins OSL then he's this seasons best player irrespective of what happens in the MSL, but anyway. I'm hyped as hell for this final!!
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On May 20 2010 21:07 KristianJS wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the translation!
I'm not too sure about this statement though: "The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is."
If Flash wins OSL then he's this seasons best player irrespective of what happens in the MSL, but anyway. I'm hyped as hell for this final!!
I disagree. If Jaedong wins in the finals against FlaSh AGAIN, he will be the better player in my eyes.
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i hope MBC doesnt fuck up this finals lol
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Wow he said he was nervous? its nice to see he didnt underestimate calm this time... And Flash is beatable!!! So go JD!!!! Hes got fighting spirit!!!
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MBC is lucky they get another chance at Flash vs Jaedong. Hope they dont fuck this up.
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On May 20 2010 21:08 roMAD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:07 KristianJS wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the translation!
I'm not too sure about this statement though: "The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is."
If Flash wins OSL then he's this seasons best player irrespective of what happens in the MSL, but anyway. I'm hyped as hell for this final!! I disagree. If Jaedong wins in the finals against FlaSh AGAIN, he will be the better player in my eyes.
LoL, no. If flash wins OSL he is the man, whatever the MSL result is.
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On May 20 2010 21:12 Samurai- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:08 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:07 KristianJS wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the translation!
I'm not too sure about this statement though: "The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is."
If Flash wins OSL then he's this seasons best player irrespective of what happens in the MSL, but anyway. I'm hyped as hell for this final!! I disagree. If Jaedong wins in the finals against FlaSh AGAIN, he will be the better player in my eyes. LoL, no. If flash wins OSL he is the man, whatever the MSL result is.
And why is that? Getting 2 consecutive OSL's > 2 consecutive MSL's, where he (FlaSh) loses to the same person in the finals twice? Amazing logic of FlaSh fans
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nice translation, csheep smix : P
Calm is srsly biggest challenger every faced by Jaedong in ZvZ... whew~ now that thats over
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On May 20 2010 21:15 roMAD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:12 Samurai- wrote:On May 20 2010 21:08 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:07 KristianJS wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the translation!
I'm not too sure about this statement though: "The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is."
If Flash wins OSL then he's this seasons best player irrespective of what happens in the MSL, but anyway. I'm hyped as hell for this final!! I disagree. If Jaedong wins in the finals against FlaSh AGAIN, he will be the better player in my eyes. LoL, no. If flash wins OSL he is the man, whatever the MSL result is. And why is that? Getting 2 consecutive OSL's > 2 consecutive MSL's, where he loses to the same person in the finals twice? Amazing logic of FlaSh fans
Ummm, 2 Golds + 2 Silvers is a lot better than 2 Golds. And Flash's proleague results this season are much better than JD's as well. Honestly I think you'd have a hard time justifying your statement..
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On May 20 2010 21:16 KristianJS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:15 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:12 Samurai- wrote:On May 20 2010 21:08 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:07 KristianJS wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the translation!
I'm not too sure about this statement though: "The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is."
If Flash wins OSL then he's this seasons best player irrespective of what happens in the MSL, but anyway. I'm hyped as hell for this final!! I disagree. If Jaedong wins in the finals against FlaSh AGAIN, he will be the better player in my eyes. LoL, no. If flash wins OSL he is the man, whatever the MSL result is. And why is that? Getting 2 consecutive OSL's > 2 consecutive MSL's, where he loses to the same person in the finals twice? Amazing logic of FlaSh fans Ummm, 2 Golds + 2 Silvers is a lot better than 2 Golds. And Flash's proleague results this season are much better than JD's as well. Honestly I think you'd have a hard time justifying your statement..
You are missing the point that FlaSh actually loses to Jaedong twice in the finals. How that doesn't prove that Jaedong is a better player?
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On May 20 2010 21:15 roMAD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:12 Samurai- wrote:On May 20 2010 21:08 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:07 KristianJS wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the translation!
I'm not too sure about this statement though: "The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is."
If Flash wins OSL then he's this seasons best player irrespective of what happens in the MSL, but anyway. I'm hyped as hell for this final!! I disagree. If Jaedong wins in the finals against FlaSh AGAIN, he will be the better player in my eyes. LoL, no. If flash wins OSL he is the man, whatever the MSL result is. And why is that? Getting 2 consecutive OSL's > 2 consecutive MSL's, where he (FlaSh) loses to the same person in the finals twice? Amazing logic of FlaSh fans
There is no logic here, its just that flash is in the dual finals again, this is way harder, meaning he is the better player. It is so much harder to prepare for both leagues, + owning in league, specially when you have the opponent of the same race a week before the finals, revealing a lot of your strategies.
That is why.
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On May 20 2010 21:16 KristianJS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:15 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:12 Samurai- wrote:On May 20 2010 21:08 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:07 KristianJS wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the translation!
I'm not too sure about this statement though: "The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is."
If Flash wins OSL then he's this seasons best player irrespective of what happens in the MSL, but anyway. I'm hyped as hell for this final!! I disagree. If Jaedong wins in the finals against FlaSh AGAIN, he will be the better player in my eyes. LoL, no. If flash wins OSL he is the man, whatever the MSL result is. And why is that? Getting 2 consecutive OSL's > 2 consecutive MSL's, where he loses to the same person in the finals twice? Amazing logic of FlaSh fans Ummm, 2 Golds + 2 Silvers is a lot better than 2 Golds. And Flash's proleague results this season are much better than JD's as well. Honestly I think you'd have a hard time justifying your statement..
It would make Flash the more consistent player, but better? How if Jaedong beat Flash twice head to head?
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On May 20 2010 21:16 KristianJS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:15 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:12 Samurai- wrote:On May 20 2010 21:08 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:07 KristianJS wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the translation!
I'm not too sure about this statement though: "The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is."
If Flash wins OSL then he's this seasons best player irrespective of what happens in the MSL, but anyway. I'm hyped as hell for this final!! I disagree. If Jaedong wins in the finals against FlaSh AGAIN, he will be the better player in my eyes. LoL, no. If flash wins OSL he is the man, whatever the MSL result is. And why is that? Getting 2 consecutive OSL's > 2 consecutive MSL's, where he loses to the same person in the finals twice? Amazing logic of FlaSh fans Ummm, 2 Golds + 2 Silvers is a lot better than 2 Golds. And Flash's proleague results this season are much better than JD's as well. Honestly I think you'd have a hard time justifying your statement..
Its really easy, just look at the fanboy icon.
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On May 20 2010 21:17 roMAD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:16 KristianJS wrote:On May 20 2010 21:15 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:12 Samurai- wrote:On May 20 2010 21:08 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:07 KristianJS wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the translation!
I'm not too sure about this statement though: "The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is."
If Flash wins OSL then he's this seasons best player irrespective of what happens in the MSL, but anyway. I'm hyped as hell for this final!! I disagree. If Jaedong wins in the finals against FlaSh AGAIN, he will be the better player in my eyes. LoL, no. If flash wins OSL he is the man, whatever the MSL result is. And why is that? Getting 2 consecutive OSL's > 2 consecutive MSL's, where he loses to the same person in the finals twice? Amazing logic of FlaSh fans Ummm, 2 Golds + 2 Silvers is a lot better than 2 Golds. And Flash's proleague results this season are much better than JD's as well. Honestly I think you'd have a hard time justifying your statement.. You are missing the point that FlaSh actually loses to Jaedong twice in the finals. How that doesn't prove that Jaedong is a better player?
It proves that Jaedong is significantly more likely to win a bo5 against Flash. Didn't realize that player A vs player B results singlehandedly determined who the better player was....
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On May 20 2010 21:19 darktreb wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:17 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:16 KristianJS wrote:On May 20 2010 21:15 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:12 Samurai- wrote:On May 20 2010 21:08 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:07 KristianJS wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the translation!
I'm not too sure about this statement though: "The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is."
If Flash wins OSL then he's this seasons best player irrespective of what happens in the MSL, but anyway. I'm hyped as hell for this final!! I disagree. If Jaedong wins in the finals against FlaSh AGAIN, he will be the better player in my eyes. LoL, no. If flash wins OSL he is the man, whatever the MSL result is. And why is that? Getting 2 consecutive OSL's > 2 consecutive MSL's, where he loses to the same person in the finals twice? Amazing logic of FlaSh fans Ummm, 2 Golds + 2 Silvers is a lot better than 2 Golds. And Flash's proleague results this season are much better than JD's as well. Honestly I think you'd have a hard time justifying your statement.. You are missing the point that FlaSh actually loses to Jaedong twice in the finals. How that doesn't prove that Jaedong is a better player? It proves that Jaedong is significantly more likely to win a bo5 against Flash. Didn't realize that player A vs player B results singlehandedly determined who the better player was....
yeah forgg is the best player of all time!
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On May 20 2010 21:15 roMAD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:12 Samurai- wrote:On May 20 2010 21:08 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:07 KristianJS wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the translation!
I'm not too sure about this statement though: "The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is."
If Flash wins OSL then he's this seasons best player irrespective of what happens in the MSL, but anyway. I'm hyped as hell for this final!! I disagree. If Jaedong wins in the finals against FlaSh AGAIN, he will be the better player in my eyes. LoL, no. If flash wins OSL he is the man, whatever the MSL result is. And why is that? Getting 2 consecutive OSL's > 2 consecutive MSL's, where he (FlaSh) loses to the same person in the finals twice? Amazing logic of FlaSh fans
Well we have to consider not only will Flash have gotten the golden mouse, he will will have gotten to the finals in both leagues twice. Where Jaedong couldn't even make it past the ro8 (with one 2-0 losss to Flash) in any of the 2 OSLs in question. Also his last lost to Jaedong in MSL is very controversial.
So yeah, if Flash manages to win the OSL, and still lose in the MSL, unless he is horribly dominated, based on his proleague and winner's league results(in where he is 1-0 vs Dong) compared to JD, I would still consider him the better player this season up to this point.
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Specially after power failure in the last MSL finals..
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On May 20 2010 21:17 roMAD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:16 KristianJS wrote:On May 20 2010 21:15 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:12 Samurai- wrote:On May 20 2010 21:08 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:07 KristianJS wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the translation!
I'm not too sure about this statement though: "The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is."
If Flash wins OSL then he's this seasons best player irrespective of what happens in the MSL, but anyway. I'm hyped as hell for this final!! I disagree. If Jaedong wins in the finals against FlaSh AGAIN, he will be the better player in my eyes. LoL, no. If flash wins OSL he is the man, whatever the MSL result is. And why is that? Getting 2 consecutive OSL's > 2 consecutive MSL's, where he loses to the same person in the finals twice? Amazing logic of FlaSh fans Ummm, 2 Golds + 2 Silvers is a lot better than 2 Golds. And Flash's proleague results this season are much better than JD's as well. Honestly I think you'd have a hard time justifying your statement.. You are missing the point that FlaSh actually loses to Jaedong twice in the finals. How that doesn't prove that Jaedong is a better player?
Because you can't base 'best player of the season' on just results on two days. If Flash wins OSL then Flash's overall performance this season overall is still much better than JD's even if JD managed to beat him on that particular day.
Heck, JD lost to Baby three times earlier, guess that means Baby is a better player than JD. Of course not, because when you're considering who did better this season between Baby and JD you don't look exclusively at the matches the played together.
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On May 20 2010 21:19 darktreb wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:17 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:16 KristianJS wrote:On May 20 2010 21:15 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:12 Samurai- wrote:On May 20 2010 21:08 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:07 KristianJS wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the translation!
I'm not too sure about this statement though: "The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is."
If Flash wins OSL then he's this seasons best player irrespective of what happens in the MSL, but anyway. I'm hyped as hell for this final!! I disagree. If Jaedong wins in the finals against FlaSh AGAIN, he will be the better player in my eyes.
LoL, no. If flash wins OSL he is the man, whatever the MSL result is.
And why is that? Getting 2 consecutive OSL's > 2 consecutive MSL's, where he loses to the same person in the finals twice? Amazing logic of FlaSh fans Ummm, 2 Golds + 2 Silvers is a lot better than 2 Golds. And Flash's proleague results this season are much better than JD's as well. Honestly I think you'd have a hard time justifying your statement.. You are missing the point that FlaSh actually loses to Jaedong twice in the finals. How that doesn't prove that Jaedong is a better player? It proves that Jaedong is significantly more likely to win a bo5 against Flash. Didn't realize that player A vs player B results singlehandedly determined who the better player was.... No it doesn't. Note, how i put the emphasis on losing TWO finals to the same player TWO seasons in a row. yeah forgg is the best player of all time!
He really was the best at that time. I can tell the same about your fanboy icon and other FlaSh fans' too.
On May 20 2010 21:20 Samurai- wrote:
Specially after power failure in the last MSL finals..
I thought everyone agreed that FlaSh couldn't have won that game. Oh well.
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Ah, This is what I want. Jaedong vs Flash finals
Glad it happen. kk
Jaedong looked such baller in the first picture. The angle of the shot, the sitting position, the white pants. Ahh so great photo.
Even Jaedong said it is hard to predict who win for OSL final  . This is making me exciting.
No matter the outcome I'll support Flash. 2 gold fighting!!
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On May 20 2010 21:20 iLoveKT wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:19 darktreb wrote:On May 20 2010 21:17 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:16 KristianJS wrote:On May 20 2010 21:15 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:12 Samurai- wrote:On May 20 2010 21:08 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:07 KristianJS wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the translation!
I'm not too sure about this statement though: "The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is."
If Flash wins OSL then he's this seasons best player irrespective of what happens in the MSL, but anyway. I'm hyped as hell for this final!! I disagree. If Jaedong wins in the finals against FlaSh AGAIN, he will be the better player in my eyes. LoL, no. If flash wins OSL he is the man, whatever the MSL result is. And why is that? Getting 2 consecutive OSL's > 2 consecutive MSL's, where he loses to the same person in the finals twice? Amazing logic of FlaSh fans Ummm, 2 Golds + 2 Silvers is a lot better than 2 Golds. And Flash's proleague results this season are much better than JD's as well. Honestly I think you'd have a hard time justifying your statement.. You are missing the point that FlaSh actually loses to Jaedong twice in the finals. How that doesn't prove that Jaedong is a better player? It proves that Jaedong is significantly more likely to win a bo5 against Flash. Didn't realize that player A vs player B results singlehandedly determined who the better player was.... yeah forgg is the best player of all time!
LOL Forgg is the biggest baller of all time though
If flash loses to jd and wins the osl he's still the best player over the past two seasons
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On May 20 2010 21:17 roMAD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:16 KristianJS wrote:On May 20 2010 21:15 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:12 Samurai- wrote:On May 20 2010 21:08 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:07 KristianJS wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the translation!
I'm not too sure about this statement though: "The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is."
If Flash wins OSL then he's this seasons best player irrespective of what happens in the MSL, but anyway. I'm hyped as hell for this final!! I disagree. If Jaedong wins in the finals against FlaSh AGAIN, he will be the better player in my eyes. LoL, no. If flash wins OSL he is the man, whatever the MSL result is. And why is that? Getting 2 consecutive OSL's > 2 consecutive MSL's, where he loses to the same person in the finals twice? Amazing logic of FlaSh fans Ummm, 2 Golds + 2 Silvers is a lot better than 2 Golds. And Flash's proleague results this season are much better than JD's as well. Honestly I think you'd have a hard time justifying your statement.. You are missing the point that FlaSh actually loses to Jaedong twice in the finals. How that doesn't prove that Jaedong is a better player?
I think you are missing the point that Flash is in both leagues 2 seasons in a row, something no one achieved, so to say that jd is going to be the better player if he wins MSL is just plain wrong or just hatred towards Flash. Your statement relies on the fact that jd beat Flash last season, I seem to recall a certain incident that I won't get into, that at the very least favored jd. Also just in case you are confused, preparing for 2 finals is harder then preparing for 1 final, especially considering the fact that jd gets to see what Flash tactics and reactions in certain situations.
Please, get real.
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On May 20 2010 21:22 KristianJS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:17 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:16 KristianJS wrote:On May 20 2010 21:15 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:12 Samurai- wrote:On May 20 2010 21:08 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:07 KristianJS wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the translation!
I'm not too sure about this statement though: "The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is."
If Flash wins OSL then he's this seasons best player irrespective of what happens in the MSL, but anyway. I'm hyped as hell for this final!! I disagree. If Jaedong wins in the finals against FlaSh AGAIN, he will be the better player in my eyes. LoL, no. If flash wins OSL he is the man, whatever the MSL result is. And why is that? Getting 2 consecutive OSL's > 2 consecutive MSL's, where he loses to the same person in the finals twice? Amazing logic of FlaSh fans Ummm, 2 Golds + 2 Silvers is a lot better than 2 Golds. And Flash's proleague results this season are much better than JD's as well. Honestly I think you'd have a hard time justifying your statement.. You are missing the point that FlaSh actually loses to Jaedong twice in the finals. How that doesn't prove that Jaedong is a better player? Because you can't base 'best player of the season' on just results on two days. If Flash wins OSL then Flash's overall performance this season overall is still much better than JD's even if JD managed to beat him on that particular day. Heck, JD lost to Baby three times earlier, guess that means Baby is a better player than JD. Of course not, because when you're considering who did better this season between Baby and JD you don't look exclusively at the matches the played together.
There is difference in the best player and the best player of the season. I didn't say Jaedong would be the best player of this season. He will be the best player in the world.
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On May 20 2010 21:24 roMAD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:19 darktreb wrote:On May 20 2010 21:17 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:16 KristianJS wrote:On May 20 2010 21:15 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:12 Samurai- wrote:On May 20 2010 21:08 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:07 KristianJS wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the translation!
I'm not too sure about this statement though: "The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is."
If Flash wins OSL then he's this seasons best player irrespective of what happens in the MSL, but anyway. I'm hyped as hell for this final!! I disagree. If Jaedong wins in the finals against FlaSh AGAIN, he will be the better player in my eyes.
LoL, no. If flash wins OSL he is the man, whatever the MSL result is.
And why is that? Getting 2 consecutive OSL's > 2 consecutive MSL's, where he loses to the same person in the finals twice? Amazing logic of FlaSh fans Ummm, 2 Golds + 2 Silvers is a lot better than 2 Golds. And Flash's proleague results this season are much better than JD's as well. Honestly I think you'd have a hard time justifying your statement.. You are missing the point that FlaSh actually loses to Jaedong twice in the finals. How that doesn't prove that Jaedong is a better player? It proves that Jaedong is significantly more likely to win a bo5 against Flash. Didn't realize that player A vs player B results singlehandedly determined who the better player was.... No it doesn't. Note, how i put the emphasis on losing TWO finals to the same player TWO seasons in a row. yeah forgg is the best player of all time! He really was the best at that time. I can tell the same about your fanboy icon and other FlaSh fans' too. Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:20 Samurai- wrote:
Specially after power failure in the last MSL finals.. I thought everyone agreed that FlaSh couldn't have won that game. Oh well.
actually you dont have to look at my fanboy icon.
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On May 20 2010 21:24 roMAD wrote:
I thought everyone agreed that FlaSh couldn't have won that game. Oh well.
Since when? Conflicting opinions were eeeeverywhere.
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United States11390 Posts
On May 20 2010 21:20 iLoveKT wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:19 darktreb wrote:On May 20 2010 21:17 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:16 KristianJS wrote:On May 20 2010 21:15 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:12 Samurai- wrote:On May 20 2010 21:08 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:07 KristianJS wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the translation!
I'm not too sure about this statement though: "The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is."
If Flash wins OSL then he's this seasons best player irrespective of what happens in the MSL, but anyway. I'm hyped as hell for this final!! I disagree. If Jaedong wins in the finals against FlaSh AGAIN, he will be the better player in my eyes. LoL, no. If flash wins OSL he is the man, whatever the MSL result is. And why is that? Getting 2 consecutive OSL's > 2 consecutive MSL's, where he loses to the same person in the finals twice? Amazing logic of FlaSh fans Ummm, 2 Golds + 2 Silvers is a lot better than 2 Golds. And Flash's proleague results this season are much better than JD's as well. Honestly I think you'd have a hard time justifying your statement.. You are missing the point that FlaSh actually loses to Jaedong twice in the finals. How that doesn't prove that Jaedong is a better player? It proves that Jaedong is significantly more likely to win a bo5 against Flash. Didn't realize that player A vs player B results singlehandedly determined who the better player was.... yeah forgg is the best player of all time!
And JD winning means he's beat Flash in 4 BO5's while denying Flash from a final each time.
That's totally the same as one.
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On May 20 2010 21:26 roMAD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:22 KristianJS wrote:On May 20 2010 21:17 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:16 KristianJS wrote:On May 20 2010 21:15 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:12 Samurai- wrote:On May 20 2010 21:08 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:07 KristianJS wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the translation!
I'm not too sure about this statement though: "The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is."
If Flash wins OSL then he's this seasons best player irrespective of what happens in the MSL, but anyway. I'm hyped as hell for this final!! I disagree. If Jaedong wins in the finals against FlaSh AGAIN, he will be the better player in my eyes. LoL, no. If flash wins OSL he is the man, whatever the MSL result is. And why is that? Getting 2 consecutive OSL's > 2 consecutive MSL's, where he loses to the same person in the finals twice? Amazing logic of FlaSh fans Ummm, 2 Golds + 2 Silvers is a lot better than 2 Golds. And Flash's proleague results this season are much better than JD's as well. Honestly I think you'd have a hard time justifying your statement.. You are missing the point that FlaSh actually loses to Jaedong twice in the finals. How that doesn't prove that Jaedong is a better player? Because you can't base 'best player of the season' on just results on two days. If Flash wins OSL then Flash's overall performance this season overall is still much better than JD's even if JD managed to beat him on that particular day. Heck, JD lost to Baby three times earlier, guess that means Baby is a better player than JD. Of course not, because when you're considering who did better this season between Baby and JD you don't look exclusively at the matches the played together. There is difference in the best player and the best player of the season. I didn't say Jaedong would be the best player of this season. He will be the best player in the world.
You know, there is a line between being a fan, being a fanboi and being a fanatic, but that's just borderline stupid, in my opinion anyway.
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On May 20 2010 21:08 roMAD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:07 KristianJS wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the translation!
I'm not too sure about this statement though: "The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is."
If Flash wins OSL then he's this seasons best player irrespective of what happens in the MSL, but anyway. I'm hyped as hell for this final!! I disagree. If Jaedong wins in the finals against FlaSh AGAIN, he will be the better player in my eyes.
Flash has to prepare for two TvZ Bo5 while Jaedong can studdy the first game.
So it's not really fair to say this.
Jaedong also mentioned:
Q You got revenge today for last year's Avalon MSL semis.
A If I were to look back on myself a year ago, though I was immensely confident I also felt very burdened.
Being burdened with 2 leagues does matter. Jaedong mentioned in another interview how releaved and relaxed he is because he only has to prepare for one league.
This plus the fact that last finals was dissapointing because of the power outage. Flash was really angry with the descision and said he was in a decent spot. Most people that didn't see his minerals said the game was over but it still feels abit meh and certainly affected flash ion the worst way possible.
Don't you agree?
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On May 20 2010 21:25 fallingdream wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:17 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:16 KristianJS wrote:On May 20 2010 21:15 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:12 Samurai- wrote:On May 20 2010 21:08 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:07 KristianJS wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the translation!
I'm not too sure about this statement though: "The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is."
If Flash wins OSL then he's this seasons best player irrespective of what happens in the MSL, but anyway. I'm hyped as hell for this final!! I disagree. If Jaedong wins in the finals against FlaSh AGAIN, he will be the better player in my eyes. LoL, no. If flash wins OSL he is the man, whatever the MSL result is. And why is that? Getting 2 consecutive OSL's > 2 consecutive MSL's, where he loses to the same person in the finals twice? Amazing logic of FlaSh fans Ummm, 2 Golds + 2 Silvers is a lot better than 2 Golds. And Flash's proleague results this season are much better than JD's as well. Honestly I think you'd have a hard time justifying your statement.. You are missing the point that FlaSh actually loses to Jaedong twice in the finals. How that doesn't prove that Jaedong is a better player? I think you are missing the point that Flash is in both leagues 2 seasons in a row, something no one achieved, so to say that jd is going to be the better player if he wins MSL is just plain wrong or just hatred towards Flash. Your statement relies on the fact that jd beat Flash last season, I seem to recall a certain incident that I won't get into, that at the very least favored jd. Also just in case you are confused, preparing for 2 finals is harder then preparing for 1 final, especially considering the fact that jd gets to see what Flash tactics and reactions in certain situations. Please, get real.
I love how FlaSh fans only mention the disadvantages of his preparing for the finals where he will play 2 zergs. The maps are different, the matchup to prepare for is only one, there's a whole week to prepare between the finals.
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romad, seriously you're not getting it. The point is that when you're talking about "best player of the season" and you're considering who did better between player X and Y, you can't just say "well player Y beat X twice so X did better".
If JD beats Flash in MSL both seasons then that doesn't somehow magically make up for JD crashing out of both previous OSL's or his proleague results (as compared to Flash). A JD victory would imply several things...maybe Flash just has a weakness against JD's particular style of play, maybe Flash being in both finals both seasons had an effect as it simply allowed JD to prepare more, etc.
What you're doing is like claiming Nadal is a better player than Federer just because Federer kept losing to Nadal in Paris. It doesn't make any sense.
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On May 20 2010 21:28 roMAD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:25 fallingdream wrote:On May 20 2010 21:17 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:16 KristianJS wrote:On May 20 2010 21:15 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:12 Samurai- wrote:On May 20 2010 21:08 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:07 KristianJS wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the translation!
I'm not too sure about this statement though: "The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is."
If Flash wins OSL then he's this seasons best player irrespective of what happens in the MSL, but anyway. I'm hyped as hell for this final!! I disagree. If Jaedong wins in the finals against FlaSh AGAIN, he will be the better player in my eyes. LoL, no. If flash wins OSL he is the man, whatever the MSL result is. And why is that? Getting 2 consecutive OSL's > 2 consecutive MSL's, where he loses to the same person in the finals twice? Amazing logic of FlaSh fans Ummm, 2 Golds + 2 Silvers is a lot better than 2 Golds. And Flash's proleague results this season are much better than JD's as well. Honestly I think you'd have a hard time justifying your statement.. You are missing the point that FlaSh actually loses to Jaedong twice in the finals. How that doesn't prove that Jaedong is a better player? I think you are missing the point that Flash is in both leagues 2 seasons in a row, something no one achieved, so to say that jd is going to be the better player if he wins MSL is just plain wrong or just hatred towards Flash. Your statement relies on the fact that jd beat Flash last season, I seem to recall a certain incident that I won't get into, that at the very least favored jd. Also just in case you are confused, preparing for 2 finals is harder then preparing for 1 final, especially considering the fact that jd gets to see what Flash tactics and reactions in certain situations. Please, get real. I love how FlaSh fans only mention the disadvantages of his preparing for the finals where he will play 2 zergs. The maps are different, the matchup to prepare for is only one, there's a whole week to prepare between the finals.
yeah coz it isnt much more mentally and physically draining at all.
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On May 20 2010 21:28 StylishVODs wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:08 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:07 KristianJS wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the translation!
I'm not too sure about this statement though: "The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is."
If Flash wins OSL then he's this seasons best player irrespective of what happens in the MSL, but anyway. I'm hyped as hell for this final!! I disagree. If Jaedong wins in the finals against FlaSh AGAIN, he will be the better player in my eyes. Flash has to prepare for two TvZ Bo5 while Jaedong can studdy the first game. So it's not really fair to say this. Jaedong also mentioned: Q You got revenge today for last year's Avalon MSL semis. A If I were to look back on myself a year ago, though I was immensely confident I also felt very burdened.Being burdened with 2 leagues does matter. Jaedong mentioned in another interview how releaved and relaxed he is because he only has to prepare for one league. Don't you agree?
I agree. But FlaSh will have a whole week to prepare, i don't see how is that not enough to prepare properly, especially if KT rests him.
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On May 20 2010 21:24 roMAD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:19 darktreb wrote:On May 20 2010 21:17 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:16 KristianJS wrote:On May 20 2010 21:15 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:12 Samurai- wrote:On May 20 2010 21:08 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:07 KristianJS wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the translation!
I'm not too sure about this statement though: "The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is."
If Flash wins OSL then he's this seasons best player irrespective of what happens in the MSL, but anyway. I'm hyped as hell for this final!! I disagree. If Jaedong wins in the finals against FlaSh AGAIN, he will be the better player in my eyes.
LoL, no. If flash wins OSL he is the man, whatever the MSL result is.
And why is that? Getting 2 consecutive OSL's > 2 consecutive MSL's, where he loses to the same person in the finals twice? Amazing logic of FlaSh fans Ummm, 2 Golds + 2 Silvers is a lot better than 2 Golds. And Flash's proleague results this season are much better than JD's as well. Honestly I think you'd have a hard time justifying your statement.. You are missing the point that FlaSh actually loses to Jaedong twice in the finals. How that doesn't prove that Jaedong is a better player? It proves that Jaedong is significantly more likely to win a bo5 against Flash. Didn't realize that player A vs player B results singlehandedly determined who the better player was.... No it doesn't. Note, how i put the emphasis on losing TWO finals to the same player TWO seasons in a row. yeah forgg is the best player of all time! He really was the best at that time. I can tell the same about your fanboy icon and other FlaSh fans' too. Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:20 Samurai- wrote:
Specially after power failure in the last MSL finals.. I thought everyone agreed that FlaSh couldn't have won that game. Oh well.
LOL WHAT ? everyone agrees that flash couldnt have won that game ?
From flash him self
+ Show Spoiler +
I'm not saying this because I lost, but I seriously was at a decent situation at that point. That's why it made me so depressed. After the finals a lot of people told me while practicing that “You were at a decent situation” which made me angrier. His call was unfair to me.
But this isn't the real reason why this whole thing made me angry. I know I'll eventually get over the decision, but what truly made it difficult for me to get over this was their attitude.
Not even flash said that, so you are just being a moron calling people fanboys..
Maybe you should read this.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=110899
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On May 20 2010 21:26 roMAD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:22 KristianJS wrote:On May 20 2010 21:17 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:16 KristianJS wrote:On May 20 2010 21:15 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:12 Samurai- wrote:On May 20 2010 21:08 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:07 KristianJS wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the translation!
I'm not too sure about this statement though: "The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is."
If Flash wins OSL then he's this seasons best player irrespective of what happens in the MSL, but anyway. I'm hyped as hell for this final!! I disagree. If Jaedong wins in the finals against FlaSh AGAIN, he will be the better player in my eyes. LoL, no. If flash wins OSL he is the man, whatever the MSL result is. And why is that? Getting 2 consecutive OSL's > 2 consecutive MSL's, where he loses to the same person in the finals twice? Amazing logic of FlaSh fans Ummm, 2 Golds + 2 Silvers is a lot better than 2 Golds. And Flash's proleague results this season are much better than JD's as well. Honestly I think you'd have a hard time justifying your statement.. You are missing the point that FlaSh actually loses to Jaedong twice in the finals. How that doesn't prove that Jaedong is a better player? Because you can't base 'best player of the season' on just results on two days. If Flash wins OSL then Flash's overall performance this season overall is still much better than JD's even if JD managed to beat him on that particular day. Heck, JD lost to Baby three times earlier, guess that means Baby is a better player than JD. Of course not, because when you're considering who did better this season between Baby and JD you don't look exclusively at the matches the played together. There is difference in the best player and the best player of the season. I didn't say Jaedong would be the best player of this season. He will be the best player in the world.
Oh, well you should have said that then. JD was talking about this seasons best player after all, so if you wanna change your point please say so -_-
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On May 20 2010 21:28 KristianJS wrote:
romad, seriously you're not getting it. The point is that when you're talking about "best player of the season" and you're considering who did better between player X and Y, you can't just say "well player Y beat X twice so X did better".
If JD beats Flash in MSL both seasons then that doesn't somehow magically make up for JD crashing out of both previous OSL's or his proleague results (as compared to Flash). A JD victory would imply several things...maybe Flash just has a weakness against JD's particular style of play, maybe Flash being in both finals both seasons had an effect as it simply allowed JD to prepare more, etc.
What you're doing is like claiming Nadal is a better player than Federer just because Federer kept losing to Nadal in Paris. It doesn't make any sense.
Nadal and Federer argument just doesnt work for JD and Flash. Federer is the one with the sick record of GS as is JD with SLs.
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On May 20 2010 21:28 roMAD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:25 fallingdream wrote:On May 20 2010 21:17 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:16 KristianJS wrote:On May 20 2010 21:15 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:12 Samurai- wrote:On May 20 2010 21:08 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:07 KristianJS wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the translation!
I'm not too sure about this statement though: "The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is."
If Flash wins OSL then he's this seasons best player irrespective of what happens in the MSL, but anyway. I'm hyped as hell for this final!! I disagree. If Jaedong wins in the finals against FlaSh AGAIN, he will be the better player in my eyes. LoL, no. If flash wins OSL he is the man, whatever the MSL result is. And why is that? Getting 2 consecutive OSL's > 2 consecutive MSL's, where he loses to the same person in the finals twice? Amazing logic of FlaSh fans Ummm, 2 Golds + 2 Silvers is a lot better than 2 Golds. And Flash's proleague results this season are much better than JD's as well. Honestly I think you'd have a hard time justifying your statement.. You are missing the point that FlaSh actually loses to Jaedong twice in the finals. How that doesn't prove that Jaedong is a better player? I think you are missing the point that Flash is in both leagues 2 seasons in a row, something no one achieved, so to say that jd is going to be the better player if he wins MSL is just plain wrong or just hatred towards Flash. Your statement relies on the fact that jd beat Flash last season, I seem to recall a certain incident that I won't get into, that at the very least favored jd. Also just in case you are confused, preparing for 2 finals is harder then preparing for 1 final, especially considering the fact that jd gets to see what Flash tactics and reactions in certain situations. Please, get real. I love how FlaSh fans only mention the disadvantages of his preparing for the finals where he will play 2 zergs. The maps are different, the matchup to prepare for is only one, there's a whole week to prepare between the finals.
I'm sorry, playing 2 zergs? He is playing in TWO DIFFERENT FINALS yo. Read, process, comprehend, the way to success.
You know, talking with someone that can actually bring a valid point and disagreeing with them is fine, but you are not doing that at all, so I'll stop here.
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On May 20 2010 21:28 KristianJS wrote:
romad, seriously you're not getting it. The point is that when you're talking about "best player of the season" and you're considering who did better between player X and Y, you can't just say "well player Y beat X twice so X did better".
If JD beats Flash in MSL both seasons then that doesn't somehow magically make up for JD crashing out of both previous OSL's or his proleague results (as compared to Flash). A JD victory would imply several things...maybe Flash just has a weakness against JD's particular style of play, maybe Flash being in both finals both seasons had an effect as it simply allowed JD to prepare more, etc.
What you're doing is like claiming Nadal is a better player than Federer just because Federer kept losing to Nadal in Paris. It doesn't make any sense.
I don't get your tennis reference, because i don't follow this sport. As i said i would consider Jaedong the better player than FlaSh at that particular moment. Jaedong vs BaBy is not like Jaedong of today. Baby really was better than Jaedong at that time, at least results-wise.
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Keep opinion in your heart. And watch the games first.
The result depicts fact. Opinion is often biased. Maybe we should wait for the result.
Flash got a chance to score 2 gold, 1 gold 1 silver or 2 silver.
Jaedong have a chance to score 1 gold or 1 silver.
Effort...ah, let's not make things complicated kkk.
Anyway since both Jaedong and Effort is fighting Flash in a Bo5 final, I think it is a good chance to gauge all 3 players skill.
I'll be rooting for Flash! Hope he score 2 gold! Flash Fighting!
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On May 20 2010 21:30 SuperArc wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:28 KristianJS wrote:
romad, seriously you're not getting it. The point is that when you're talking about "best player of the season" and you're considering who did better between player X and Y, you can't just say "well player Y beat X twice so X did better".
If JD beats Flash in MSL both seasons then that doesn't somehow magically make up for JD crashing out of both previous OSL's or his proleague results (as compared to Flash). A JD victory would imply several things...maybe Flash just has a weakness against JD's particular style of play, maybe Flash being in both finals both seasons had an effect as it simply allowed JD to prepare more, etc.
What you're doing is like claiming Nadal is a better player than Federer just because Federer kept losing to Nadal in Paris. It doesn't make any sense. Nadal and Federer argument just doesnt work for JD and Flash. Federer is the one with the sick record of GS as is JD with SLs.
Please don't read more into my analogy than was intended. The only point I was trying to make was that losing to one player, even consistently, doesn't in and of itself have any effect on who is the overall better player.
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Anyway I guess people won't agree on this.
Doesn't matter that much, it's a great rivalry!
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Jeez why does every thread turn into a Jaedong vs Flash who-is-better-argument?
Hold your arguments until the actual finals where TL will explode into like a 500-page post-game flame war threads and blogs about that same thing...
But. On the topic. Thanks for the translation, and I like how JD has the "challenger" mindset (as mentioned in the interview) despite winning the head-to-head BO5 in the last MSL. Dude knows how humble himself and win the big titles.
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It all started from a very simple beginning.
I disagree. <----- ahahahahaa
Look at page 1.
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On May 20 2010 21:30 KristianJS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:26 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:22 KristianJS wrote:On May 20 2010 21:17 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:16 KristianJS wrote:On May 20 2010 21:15 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:12 Samurai- wrote:On May 20 2010 21:08 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:07 KristianJS wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the translation!
I'm not too sure about this statement though: "The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is."
If Flash wins OSL then he's this seasons best player irrespective of what happens in the MSL, but anyway. I'm hyped as hell for this final!! I disagree. If Jaedong wins in the finals against FlaSh AGAIN, he will be the better player in my eyes. LoL, no. If flash wins OSL he is the man, whatever the MSL result is. And why is that? Getting 2 consecutive OSL's > 2 consecutive MSL's, where he loses to the same person in the finals twice? Amazing logic of FlaSh fans Ummm, 2 Golds + 2 Silvers is a lot better than 2 Golds. And Flash's proleague results this season are much better than JD's as well. Honestly I think you'd have a hard time justifying your statement.. You are missing the point that FlaSh actually loses to Jaedong twice in the finals. How that doesn't prove that Jaedong is a better player? Because you can't base 'best player of the season' on just results on two days. If Flash wins OSL then Flash's overall performance this season overall is still much better than JD's even if JD managed to beat him on that particular day. Heck, JD lost to Baby three times earlier, guess that means Baby is a better player than JD. Of course not, because when you're considering who did better this season between Baby and JD you don't look exclusively at the matches the played together. There is difference in the best player and the best player of the season. I didn't say Jaedong would be the best player of this season. He will be the best player in the world. Oh, well you should have said that then. JD was talking about this seasons best player after all, so if you wanna change your point please say so -_-
I didn't change my point, probably i had had to clarify it more. Sorry for that.
I'm sorry, playing 2 zergs? He is playing in TWO DIFFERENT FINALS yo. Read, process, comprehend, the way to success.
You know, talking with someone that can actually bring a valid point and disagreeing with them is fine, but you are not doing that at all, so I'll stop here.
Same goes to you.
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the finals is in 9days and look at the shitstorm already. TL is gonna be completely crazy for the next weeks to come
Thanks for the translation, much appreciated.
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On May 20 2010 21:34 OpticalShot wrote:
Jeez why does every thread turn into a Jaedong vs Flash who-is-better-argument?
It can't be helped, the hype around Flash v Jaedong finals is unstoppable
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Can't we all just be friends?
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OK, the hype for finals can start now!!
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the msl winner will determine who will be number 1 on the power rank for this month.
although flash has much more to practice for, dont forget that both jaedong and flash ripped through may, both played really well and are the respective #1 and #2 players. in april and before, jaedong played badly, but now in may he has definitely stepped it up to match flash in ability.
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Pfft. Who cares if Flash is the "better player".
I dont really care.
If Jaedong wins this he goes down in history as the GOAT. The man with 6 SL titles, a WCG title, and an invincible record in bo5s.
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Romad if player x > player y dose this automaticly make player x better overall? So by your logic snow and effort are the best players in the world because they beat flash? You cant just say because JD is better than flash in two finals and as flash has been the best for the last 6 months, JD is now the greatest player in the world. Yes JD > Flash head to head but overall Flash is still better
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On May 20 2010 21:28 StylishVODs wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:08 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:07 KristianJS wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the translation!
I'm not too sure about this statement though: "The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is."
If Flash wins OSL then he's this seasons best player irrespective of what happens in the MSL, but anyway. I'm hyped as hell for this final!! I disagree. If Jaedong wins in the finals against FlaSh AGAIN, he will be the better player in my eyes. Flash has to prepare for two TvZ Bo5 while Jaedong can studdy the first game. So it's not really fair to say this. Jaedong also mentioned: Q You got revenge today for last year's Avalon MSL semis. A If I were to look back on myself a year ago, though I was immensely confident I also felt very burdened.Being burdened with 2 leagues does matter. Jaedong mentioned in another interview how releaved and relaxed he is because he only has to prepare for one league. This plus the fact that last finals was dissapointing because of the power outage. Flash was really angry with the descision and said he was in a decent spot. Most people that didn't see his minerals said the game was over but it still feels abit meh and certainly affected flash ion the worst way possible. Don't you agree?
It is funny how people already use flash "burden" as an excuse even before the finals are played.
JD won OSL finals vs fantasy (who back then were JD's "rival") after having to play OSL, PROLEAGUE FINALs AND MSL semis ALL within a single week.
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On May 20 2010 21:43 samachking wrote:
Pfft. Who cares if Flash is the "better player".
I dont really care.
If Jaedong wins this he goes down in history as the GOAT. The man with 6 SL titles, a WCG title, and an invincible record in bo5s.
His title of GOAT will only last until Flash retires though >:D
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Imo it will be impressive if Jaedong wins.
But the fact remains that we have two players facing off.
One of the players have less practicetime and have to show his TvZ in a Bo5 one week before the finals.
I don't see how you can neglect these facts.
You can't say that it's 100% fair preparations. And then I'm not including that a player preparing for double ammount of games for months and months might actually be worn out.
I don't know.. I just don't think it's fair to make that call.
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On May 20 2010 21:45 Ota Solgryn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:28 StylishVODs wrote:On May 20 2010 21:08 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:07 KristianJS wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the translation!
I'm not too sure about this statement though: "The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is."
If Flash wins OSL then he's this seasons best player irrespective of what happens in the MSL, but anyway. I'm hyped as hell for this final!! I disagree. If Jaedong wins in the finals against FlaSh AGAIN, he will be the better player in my eyes. Flash has to prepare for two TvZ Bo5 while Jaedong can studdy the first game. So it's not really fair to say this. Jaedong also mentioned: Q You got revenge today for last year's Avalon MSL semis. A If I were to look back on myself a year ago, though I was immensely confident I also felt very burdened.Being burdened with 2 leagues does matter. Jaedong mentioned in another interview how releaved and relaxed he is because he only has to prepare for one league. This plus the fact that last finals was dissapointing because of the power outage. Flash was really angry with the descision and said he was in a decent spot. Most people that didn't see his minerals said the game was over but it still feels abit meh and certainly affected flash ion the worst way possible. Don't you agree? It is funny how people already use flash "burden" as an excuse even before the finals are played. JD won OSL finals vs fantasy (who back then were JD's "rival") after having to play OSL, PROLEAGUE FINALs AND MSL semis ALL within a single week.
I'm using it as a fact for why you cannot make that statement jaedong made.
Yes, JD was also burdened, and he lost.
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On May 20 2010 21:43 samachking wrote:
Pfft. Who cares if Flash is the "better player".
I dont really care.
If Jaedong wins this he goes down in history as the GOAT. The man with 6 SL titles, a WCG title, and an invincible record in bo5s.
Invincible record in bo5s? I think rock has something to say about that
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On May 20 2010 21:44 Scaramanga wrote:
Romad if player x > player y dose this automaticly make player x better overall? So by your logic snow and effort are the best players in the world because they beat flash? You cant just say because JD is better than flash in two finals and as flash has been the best for the last 6 months, JD is now the greatest player in the world. Yes JD > Flash head to head but overall Flash is still better
Beating a player in a bo1 is one thing. Beating him in the finals in a bo5 is another. Let's just say that i disagree and let it go. I only hope that MBC won't screw this up again and we will have the greatest finals ever.
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On May 20 2010 21:44 Scaramanga wrote:
Romad if player x > player y dose this automaticly make player x better overall? So by your logic snow and effort are the best players in the world because they beat flash? You cant just say because JD is better than flash in two finals and as flash has been the best for the last 6 months, JD is now the greatest player in the world. Yes JD > Flash head to head but overall Flash is still better
But JD have more titles by far, does that not make JD better than flash by you logic, that he is better overall. And then comes ALSO the fact that JD beats flash in every BO5 so far, so he is actually not just better overall, but he beats him on the big stages as well.
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On May 20 2010 21:44 Scaramanga wrote:
Romad if player x > player y dose this automaticly make player x better overall? So by your logic snow and effort are the best players in the world because they beat flash? You cant just say because JD is better than flash in two finals and as flash has been the best for the last 6 months, JD is now the greatest player in the world. Yes JD > Flash head to head but overall Flash is still better
c'mon. I don't really wanna jump into this discussion.
but comparing bo1's to two consecutive bo5's in a SL final is kinda stupid, isn't it?
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Guys, please be aware that there are two arguments going on here and people seem to talking past eachother. The original point was about who the best player of the season is (since JD thought the MSL finals would determine it).
The discussion about whether JD has been a better player overall throughout his entire career is completely separate....
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At this point I almost wish Flash would lose both finals just so Flash fans can finally stfu. Well almost, I still love the guy.
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On May 20 2010 21:49 Ota Solgryn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:44 Scaramanga wrote:
Romad if player x > player y dose this automaticly make player x better overall? So by your logic snow and effort are the best players in the world because they beat flash? You cant just say because JD is better than flash in two finals and as flash has been the best for the last 6 months, JD is now the greatest player in the world. Yes JD > Flash head to head but overall Flash is still better But JD have more titles by far, does that not make JD better than flash by you logic, that he is better overall. And then comes ALSO the fact that JD beats flash in every BO5 so far, so he is actually not just better overall, but he beats him on the big stages as well.
Overall in the past two seasons, have you been reading the thread?
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this argument is going nowhere
lets just try and figure out what makes a player to be the best
is it best winning records ? success in long term or short term
or just his odds in winning in a bo5 (the reason of a bo5 vs a bo1 is obvious - any pro can win vs any pro given enough games , hell even nal ra won flash granted nal ra rocks but lets be real )
if its by the bo5 standards cant see anyone disagreeing on jaedong
if its by the win rate - its flash i'll be the first to agree
long term success- jaedong
short term - flash
it all depends on what you consider the most important fact to conclude "best player"
since my tag is oz i'll stick to bo5 odds and long term success i'll let the kt flash guys to pick the other 2 may we have a great finals with no black outs
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The answer is it can't really be settled since Flash has not had the same prerequisites for the finals.
but as romad said, lets just agree to disagree and look forward to a great finals.
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On May 20 2010 21:53 pvzvt wrote:this argument is going nowhere lets just try and figure out what makes a player to be the best is it best winning records ? success in long term or short term or just his odds in winning in a bo5 (the reason of a bo5 vs a bo1 is obvious - any pro can win vs any pro given enough games , hell even nal ra won flash granted nal ra rocks but lets be real ) if its by the bo5 standards cant see anyone disagreeing on jaedong if its by the win rate - its flash i'll be the first to agree long term success- jaedong short term - flash it all depends on what you consider the most important fact to conclude "best player" since my tag is oz i'll stick to bo5 odds and long term success i'll let the kt flash guys to pick the other 2 may we have a great finals with no black outs
I've been arguing that Flash is better than JD over the past two seasons and in the past two seasons flash has been the best in the world unquestionablely. His elo is insane, his winrate is insane, he's made both finals in both seasons, hes got a better boX record
In carrers JD is better i'm not disputing that
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Flash will lose both finals. You heard it here first
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On May 20 2010 21:59 Art.FeeL wrote:
Flash will lose both finals. You heard it here first
Amen!!
its long due for effort to have a medal
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I dunno, my money's on power outage to repeat.
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I'm wondering how people will react if Flash loses to Effort and then beats Jaedong 3-0.
Least likely scenario, but what if it happens?
There will be riots everywhere... >_>
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On May 20 2010 22:02 Kyo Yuy wrote:
I'm wondering how people will react if Flash loses to Effort and then beats Jaedong 3-0.
Least likely scenario, but what if it happens?
There will be riots everywhere... >_>
Meh, Flash won't hold back in the OSL final. Golden Mouse is his primary objective.
But I would love it if it happens. I am a drama freak.
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I wonder what happens if flash wins 3-0 in both finals, i wonder overall who the better player would be then?
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Its pretty sweet that the MSL basically gets a do-over. But I for one will root for PowerOutage.
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On May 20 2010 22:05 Scaramanga wrote:
I wonder what happens if flash wins 3-0 in both finals, i wonder overall who the better player would be then?
flash is the favorite but 3-0 in both is pretty unlikely
anyways, the OSL will definitely heavily affect the results of MSL
if flash loses or barely wins the OSL, it may affect his confident greatly in the MSL, whereas if flash 3-0's effort, flash will enter the MSL with a really good mindset.
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On May 20 2010 21:36 roMAD wrote:Show nested quote + I'm sorry, playing 2 zergs? He is playing in TWO DIFFERENT FINALS yo. Read, process, comprehend, the way to success.
You know, talking with someone that can actually bring a valid point and disagreeing with them is fine, but you are not doing that at all, so I'll stop here.
So's your face.
lmfao
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I think there is one thing Flash fans fail to take into account every time.
Currently JD's ZvZ and ZVP are fucking beastly, unquestionably the best and are favoured vs every single Zerg and Protoss for 8:2 odds. His only questionable mu is his ZvT and only ZvT right now, if he can prove he is a better ZvTer than Flash by beating him in 2 bo5s, why cant he be considered the better player?
I'm not saying he'll win this bo5, but it's just something to put into account. And personally I think Flash is a much more solid player overall, and a better player, but when it comes to the bo5s I think JD has a larger edge.
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It's getting harder for the "Ultimate Weapon" to bring home both OSL and MSL gold. Both his opponents are in a winning streak. Effort beat Flash in there recent game not just by a small margine but outplayed Flash the entire game. JD on the other hand also beat Flash in there last MSL finals meeting. Well for Flash, this is a great time to prove and cement himself as not just the no.1 Terran but no.1 SC player in the world and levels himself to the legends like Boxer, Nada, Oov, Savior if he could grab both major titles. It's not just the "golden mouse"..... it's not just the "sweet revenge"..... It all boils down to one question. "What has the SC Gods in store for the Ultimate Weapon?"
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this is going to be epic. thanks for translating!
now we're facing 9 days of what-if scenarios followed by 1 week of see-now and but-then comments.
oh, and contributing to the debate, i don't think nadal-federer is a good comparison. i think prost-senna is a much better one
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Jaedong is better then FlaSh, at least in results. Lately FlaSh has been on an unbelievable tear, but Jaedong still has more SL's.
Also, I was pretty sure that 99.9% of the community believed that Jaedong had the poweroutage game completely won. FlaSh was mining from a min only, he most likely was getting low on money, and his push to disrupt Jaedongs 4th base when he was taking a 5th was pretty much deterred. It was over.
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OMFG Jaedong is so sexy!!! Lolz at KTFlash fanboyism. Jaedong for the golden badge! ^_^
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On May 20 2010 21:44 Scaramanga wrote:
Romad if player x > player y dose this automaticly make player x better overall? So by your logic snow and effort are the best players in the world because they beat flash? You cant just say because JD is better than flash in two finals and as flash has been the best for the last 6 months, JD is now the greatest player in the world. Yes JD > Flash head to head but overall Flash is still better
Theres a different between a proleague game and a best of 5.
Maybe I'm generalizing too much but its say to say JD seems to be way better in terms of mental stat during seriese. One cool statistic last year that managed to hold true for the OSL and MSL was that Flash has won all the best of 3s against jaedng and jaedong has won all the best of 5s against flash.
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On May 20 2010 22:25 ZZangDreamjOy wrote:
Jaedong is better then FlaSh, at least in results. Lately FlaSh has been on an unbelievable tear, but Jaedong still has more SL's.
Also, I was pretty sure that 99.9% of the community believed that Jaedong had the poweroutage game completely won. FlaSh was mining from a min only, he most likely was getting low on money, and his push to disrupt Jaedongs 4th base when he was taking a 5th was pretty much deterred. It was over.
aaaaaaaaaagh There are a billion threads on this already and why it's not so simple good god can we never bring this repetitive argument up again?
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On May 20 2010 22:25 ZZangDreamjOy wrote:
Jaedong is better then FlaSh, at least in results. Lately FlaSh has been on an unbelievable tear, but Jaedong still has more SL's.
Also, I was pretty sure that 99.9% of the community believed that Jaedong had the poweroutage game completely won. FlaSh was mining from a min only, he most likely was getting low on money, and his push to disrupt Jaedongs 4th base when he was taking a 5th was pretty much deterred. It was over.
No, 99.9% of the community does not believe that. We've just stopped talking about it because it was getting tiresome.
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United States11637 Posts
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United States10328 Posts
so excited for the finals :D :D :D (lol at flame war)
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On May 20 2010 22:31 asdfTT123 wrote:
OMFG Jaedong is so sexy!!! Lolz at KTFlash and Jaedongoz fanboyism. Jaedong for the golden badge! ^_^
Fixed
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Apparently Jaedong thinks that Flash will wipe the floor with EffOrt:
"Though Flash is making a run for both league titles, I can’t Just leave him alone to do that. That's something I personally won't allow. Though I can't do anything about the OSL, with at least the MSL Where he'll be facing me, I refuse to give that up to him."
<=> "Yeah, the OSL is his this year, but I WILL NOT GIVE HIM THE MSL" :p
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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
This has a lot of pages for an interview!
Reading...
Hmm this was a pretty conservative interview (so unlike that of EffOrt's when he beat Kal last week...)
Hmm Jaedong is cute.
:3
5pooling. What a baller.
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On May 20 2010 22:34 J1.au wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 22:25 ZZangDreamjOy wrote:
Jaedong is better then FlaSh, at least in results. Lately FlaSh has been on an unbelievable tear, but Jaedong still has more SL's.
Also, I was pretty sure that 99.9% of the community believed that Jaedong had the poweroutage game completely won. FlaSh was mining from a min only, he most likely was getting low on money, and his push to disrupt Jaedongs 4th base when he was taking a 5th was pretty much deterred. It was over. No, 99.9% of the community does not believe that. We've just stopped talking about it because it was getting tiresome.
The biggest blow of the power outage wasnt the game on odd eye which he lost. It was the mental fuckup he recieved after all his support was kicked out...
Jesus man, thought that was obvious and noone mentioned it...
And JD wouldve been as likely to win
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the flash fanboyism in this thread needs to be monitored, honestly nothing of value was said past 5 pages.
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Oz fanboy is talking about KT fanboy.
I don't like it.
Can't say KT fanboy is biased Flash. And Oz Fanboy is not biased Jaedong.
That above statement is biased.
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Yay for JD. Now we can have JD vs FLash rematch.
And i agree with Romad if JD wins he will be the greatest player of all time. Flash fanboys give it a rest with the power outage cry that game JD was raping FLash hard and the whole series overall its just a stupid excuse why Flash got stomped hard.
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On May 20 2010 21:58 Scaramanga wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:53 pvzvt wrote:this argument is going nowhere lets just try and figure out what makes a player to be the best is it best winning records ? success in long term or short term or just his odds in winning in a bo5 (the reason of a bo5 vs a bo1 is obvious - any pro can win vs any pro given enough games , hell even nal ra won flash granted nal ra rocks but lets be real ) if its by the bo5 standards cant see anyone disagreeing on jaedong if its by the win rate - its flash i'll be the first to agree long term success- jaedong short term - flash it all depends on what you consider the most important fact to conclude "best player" since my tag is oz i'll stick to bo5 odds and long term success i'll let the kt flash guys to pick the other 2 may we have a great finals with no black outs I've been arguing that Flash is better than JD over the past two seasons and in the past two seasons flash has been the best in the world unquestionablely. His elo is insane, his winrate is insane, he's made both finals in both seasons, hes got a better boX record In carrers JD is better i'm not disputing that
i will agree that flash played better than JD on the last 2 seasons (much better ) but that is something else
yes he played better but!!!! and there is always a BUT when an oz fan is replying to a kt flash fan lol is he better than jaedong?,,,
i dont know he sure was more consistent ... right now flash is a complete player with no weaknesses if jaedong wins the msl finals again he will show he is complete as well since his zvz and zvp are up to par with flash tvz and tvp.
i'd say this if jaedong wins this msl final both players have no weaknesses flash more consistent but when played vs each other jaedong has the upper hand in big stages
would u agree on that at least ?
+ Show Spoiler + and btw i have a big dick (just so the guy above me wont say there wasnt something new added since page 5)
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if jd wins the finals, the thread will derail and easily hit 200 pages....
imho if jd wins the finals, it will depend on how he wins. if its a very close win 3-2 with good games and stuff or maybe jd getting lucky in a crucial situation, then i personally would still consider flash the better player atm (always given that he beats effort... not certain either, ofc. )
if jd dominated flash and wins 3-1 or even 3-0 with convincing wins, then i might consider jd the stronger player.
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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
On May 20 2010 23:27 Black Gun wrote:
if jd wins the finals, the thread will derail and easily hit 200 pages....
imho if jd wins the finals, it will depend on how he wins. if its a very close win 3-2 with good games and stuff or maybe jd getting lucky in a crucial situation, then i personally would still consider flash the better player atm (always given that he beats effort... not certain either, ofc. )
if jd dominated flash and wins 3-1 or even 3-0 with convincing wins, then i might consider jd the stronger player.
Yeah I commented earlier that "this thread had a lot of comments for an interview."
And then I realized it wasn't about the interview itself, but as usual, it's between Flash fanboys and not-Flash fanboys (Jaedong fanboys I guess).
Recently, I went through and reread last year's NATE MSL finals thread. Sooooo much shit.
350 pages, in my opinion, if Jaedong wins. 250 if Flash wins.
On May 20 2010 23:30 Waxangel wrote:whoa, Shine and RorO helped out JD? That's some pretty decent help! Can Shine get some love now please, from grateful JD fans?
I've always loved Shine :<
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the strike of the evil POWER OUTAGE once again??? :/
haha
hopefully nott
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I don't really care who wins in the MSL Finals, but I just want to see some sick epic games!
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On May 20 2010 23:49 meegrean wrote:
I don't really care who wins in the MSL Finals, but I just want to see some sick epic games!
Exactly. As long as we see a epic finals, nobody loses. (kinda)
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All this "what happens if" stuff is really starting to get annoying... Seriously, no one, no matter if he's a Flash fan or a JD fan or neutral or whatever can say if anyone of the two can be called the undisputed best player in the world after the MSL finals. There's just too much you have to take into account. What if it's tied 2-2 and JD 4/5pools? What if it goes 3-0 for JD? What if it goes 3-0 for Flash? Are the games close or are they one-sided? What about the OSL finals? What if it's a cruise missile destroying JD's computer this time when Flash seems to be ahead? You see where I'm going with this... so let's just wait and see what happens, kk?
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I dont' see how anyone can deny Flash was about to lose that game with the power outage.. blows my mind lol.
but im pretty sure its just the people with the KT symbols =p
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On May 20 2010 23:54 shurgen wrote:
I dont' see how anyone can deny Flash was about to lose that game with the power outage.. blows my mind lol.
but im pretty sure its just the people with the KT symbols =p
Yeah there was a pretty extensive analysis on it. Multiple players like idra and Ret mentioned that Jaedong had that game in the bag.
Whatever Jaedong is gonna prove everryone right in 2 weeks.
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On May 20 2010 23:30 Waxangel wrote:whoa, Shine and RorO helped out JD? That's some pretty decent help! Can Shine get some love now please, from grateful JD fans?
fuck shine in his stupid face >: 3
i blame him for having to sit through FLASH VS... movie? instead of STORK
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I don't know how there can be so much arguing when we are being treated yet again to the dream final.
Just sit back and enjoy.
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Thanks for the translation.
I'm really looking forward to the finals, it should be a pretty awesome showdown. Very interesting that Roro and Shine helped JD for this.
Well, TTFN. (Love the picture of Jaedong in that chair by the way.)
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On May 20 2010 23:49 meegrean wrote:
I don't really care who wins in the MSL Finals, but I just want to see some sick epic games!
I don't care who wins this final if Flash wins earlier a golden mouse. Otherwise I want Flash to win
But damn, both finals looking great this season. The best finals in the long time (I mean often we had one good final and the other one just meh, but this time both seem so exciting ).
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On May 20 2010 23:50 Mooncat wrote:
All this "what happens if" stuff is really starting to get annoying... Seriously, no one, no matter if he's a Flash fan or a JD fan or neutral or whatever can say if anyone of the two can be called the undisputed best player in the world after the MSL finals. There's just too much you have to take into account. What if it's tied 2-2 and JD 4/5pools? What if it goes 3-0 for JD? What if it goes 3-0 for Flash? Are the games close or are they one-sided? What about the OSL finals? What if it's a cruise missile destroying JD's computer this time when Flash seems to be ahead? You see where I'm going with this... so let's just wait and see what happens, kk?
i guess you're annoyed because by chance, even if effort manages to 3-0 flash, and jaedong gets 3-0'd by flash, effort wont even be ackknowledged as #1 or #2 :p
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I'm gonna say the same thing as I said in the PR thread; Flash has had all his MU's over 2300 ELO this month (and hit a new overall ELO record), broke the Kespa point record and has reached consecutive dual finals (which no one has ever done before) by completely roflstomping his opponents hard 3-0 in both the semi's. He's been the definite #1 on the scene since October whereas JD has been way inferior during most of this period. For every Bo5 JD has to prepare for, Flash has two.
Fuck every JD fanboy who all of sudden comes and tries to diminish what Flash is doing at the moment. No bonjwa was ever as dominant as Flash is now.
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Russian Federation4447 Posts
I expect nothing less from someone with allehKT sig.
You're just as annoying as Jaedong fanbois (me). hahahha
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On May 21 2010 00:17 Holgerius wrote:
I'm gonna say the same thing as I said in the PR thread; Flash has had all his MU's over 2300 ELO this month (and hit a new overall ELO record), broke the Kespa point record and has reached consecutive dual finals (which no one has ever done before) by completely roflstomping his opponents hard 3-0 in both the semi's. He's been the definite #1 on the scene since October whereas JD has been way inferior during most of this period. For every Bo5 JD has to prepare for, Flash has two.
Fuck every JD fanboy who all of sudden comes and tries to diminish what Flash is doing at the moment. No bonjwa was ever as dominant as Flash is now.
Fuck every Flash fanboy who all of a sudden comes and tries to diminish JD has BEEN doing for the past TWO YEARS. i don't hate flash, in fact i like him. but those ANNOYING flash fanboys want to call Flash bonjwa so bad just because he was doing a little better then jaedong for these past two months. did you forget jaedong was fucking getting surgery last month?
and you say "no bonjwa was ever as dominant as flash is now" WTF?! exactly WHEN have you started watching the proscene?? I'm not sure about oov, boxer, and nada eras because i wasn't around for the whole time, but even sAviOr's reign in 06 was completely more monstrous then Flash's right now. let me explain to you exactly how dominating savior used to be. he came out of NOWHERE, and basically 3-0'd everyone without losing at all. boxer, nada, oov, midas. that would be the equivalent of someone we've never heard of before come out of nowhere and 3-0 flash, jaedong, a suddenly-in-shape bisu, and a well performing stork, and then proceed to hardly lose ANY game for a WHOLE YEAR.
we were at a point where we thought okay, savior will never lose again. he will win the next 7 straight osl's and get a diamond mouse.
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On May 21 2010 00:34 Crimson)S(hadow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 00:17 Holgerius wrote:
I'm gonna say the same thing as I said in the PR thread; Flash has had all his MU's over 2300 ELO this month (and hit a new overall ELO record), broke the Kespa point record and has reached consecutive dual finals (which no one has ever done before) by completely roflstomping his opponents hard 3-0 in both the semi's. He's been the definite #1 on the scene since October whereas JD has been way inferior during most of this period. For every Bo5 JD has to prepare for, Flash has two.
Fuck every JD fanboy who all of sudden comes and tries to diminish what Flash is doing at the moment. No bonjwa was ever as dominant as Flash is now. Fuck every Flash fanboy who all of a sudden comes and tries to diminish JD has BEEN doing for the past TWO YEARS. i don't hate flash, in fact i like him. but those ANNOYING flash fanboys want to call Flash bonjwa so bad just because he was doing a little better then jaedong for these past two months. did you forget jaedong was fucking getting surgery last month? and you say "no bonjwa was ever as dominant as flash is now" WTF?! exactly WHEN have you started watching the proscene?? I'm not sure about oov, boxer, and nada eras because i wasn't around for the whole time, but even sAviOr's reign in 06 was completely more monstrous then Flash's right now. let me explain to you exactly how dominating savior used to be. he came out of NOWHERE, and basically 3-0'd everyone without losing at all. boxer, nada, oov, midas. that would be the equivalent of someone we've never heard of before come out of nowhere and 3-0 flash, jaedong, a suddenly-in-shape bisu, and a well performing stork, and then proceed to hardly lose ANY game for a WHOLE YEAR. we were at a point where we thought okay, savior will never lose again. he will win the next 7 straight osl's and get a diamond mouse.
Bonjwa shouldn't be based on just one bonjwa(in this case, Savior). Because if you use Savior as the prime example as what qualifies to be a bonjwa, then Boxer is definitely out. (And no one wants that) Even arguably, iloveoov can be considered non-bonjwa since what he accomplished is very similiar to what Flash accomplished.
So based on your Savior arguement, only Nada, Savior are bonjwas.
But no, Flash's reign in 09 was more monstrous than Savior's reign in 06.
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WTF is this? why all those blind Flash fanboy just came to pollute a JD ivew thread?
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On May 21 2010 00:48 Weryeery wrote:
WTF is this? why all those blind Flash fanboy just came to pollute a JD ivew thread?
If you haven't figured out that Jaedong and Flash goes hand to hand, where have you been?
They're one of the greatest rivalry just like Boxer and Yellow. (There are always corresponding terms/names that are related to the topic)
Calling anyone/everyone who posts about Flash in Jaedong interview thread a "blind Flash Fanboy" seems a little uncalled for and childish.
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I think it is awesome for starcraft that two players can provoke such a flame war. Obviously we are dealing with conflicting definitions of what best player entails. If this were a sport with a single league it would be simpler, eg. I don't care if you have the best regular season record, you have to win the championship to be the best. Based on that principle which I hope most people can accept, I suggest the following analysis.
Imagine that the winner of the MSL and OSL played each other for a real final championship?
OSL Flash wins, MSL Flash wins. He faces himself, obviously he is the best.
OSL Effort wins, MSL Jaedong wins. Clearly Flash is not best player, he does not even make the championship. Since there is no championship, I defer to records. Jaedong's record is better than Efforts, so we could probably fairly call him best player.
OSL Effort wins, MSL Flash wins. Because Flash is so good to advance in both leagues, it is fair that Effort would have to beat him twice to prove himself better. Since there is no championship game, the result is ambiguous. on one hand Flash has better record this season, on other hand, Effort just beat Flash, and the more dominant Effort wins the more we can predict he would do the same thing in a second series. I would have to call it a tie.
OSL Flash wins, MSL Jaedong wins. Same analysis as above.
Basically, Effort is playing for a tie at best. Jaedong for a win but only if he gets help from Effort.
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On May 21 2010 00:34 Crimson)S(hadow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 00:17 Holgerius wrote:
I'm gonna say the same thing as I said in the PR thread; Flash has had all his MU's over 2300 ELO this month (and hit a new overall ELO record), broke the Kespa point record and has reached consecutive dual finals (which no one has ever done before) by completely roflstomping his opponents hard 3-0 in both the semi's. He's been the definite #1 on the scene since October whereas JD has been way inferior during most of this period. For every Bo5 JD has to prepare for, Flash has two.
Fuck every JD fanboy who all of sudden comes and tries to diminish what Flash is doing at the moment. No bonjwa was ever as dominant as Flash is now. Fuck every Flash fanboy who all of a sudden comes and tries to diminish JD has BEEN doing for the past TWO YEARS. i don't hate flash, in fact i like him. but those ANNOYING flash fanboys want to call Flash bonjwa so bad just because he was doing a little better then jaedong for these past two months. did you forget jaedong was fucking getting surgery last month? and you say "no bonjwa was ever as dominant as flash is now" WTF?! exactly WHEN have you started watching the proscene?? I'm not sure about oov, boxer, and nada eras because i wasn't around for the whole time, but even sAviOr's reign in 06 was completely more monstrous then Flash's right now. let me explain to you exactly how dominating savior used to be. he came out of NOWHERE, and basically 3-0'd everyone without losing at all. boxer, nada, oov, midas. that would be the equivalent of someone we've never heard of before come out of nowhere and 3-0 flash, jaedong, a suddenly-in-shape bisu, and a well performing stork, and then proceed to hardly lose ANY game for a WHOLE YEAR. we were at a point where we thought okay, savior will never lose again. he will win the next 7 straight osl's and get a diamond mouse.
You're really really wrong if you think Flash doesn't compare to Savior. A dozen writers on this very site who've been around since forever have noted that Flash has been tearing up the scene as hard or harder than Savior. Korean commentators do it. And yes, blind fanboys do, too. I don't say this to be a "blind Flash fanboy," but it's clear with the level of press Flash alone has gotten over the past 2 seasons, that he's doing something extraordinary.
Flash fans are no less volatile or excitable than any other fanboy group. The better a player does, the more outspoken and brazen they are. Jaedong has a legacy matched only by oov and beaten only by Nada thusfar. Few, if any, are going to change that. But Jaedong never made dual finals -- Jaedong never made dual finals back to back. Jaedong never had as absurd a winrate in proleague, or in all 3 matchups.
Jaedong has many other laurels on his head, but it's silly to think what Flash has been demonstrating the past 2 seasons isn't different from what Jaedong has done for the past couple of years -- intermittently, mind you, as he has not been the undisputed best player for 2 years.
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i lol'ed hard at fanboys from both sides.
no need to blame the other party yo, you're both the same ^^
<3 drama
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On May 21 2010 00:34 Crimson)S(hadow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 00:17 Holgerius wrote:
I'm gonna say the same thing as I said in the PR thread; Flash has had all his MU's over 2300 ELO this month (and hit a new overall ELO record), broke the Kespa point record and has reached consecutive dual finals (which no one has ever done before) by completely roflstomping his opponents hard 3-0 in both the semi's. He's been the definite #1 on the scene since October whereas JD has been way inferior during most of this period. For every Bo5 JD has to prepare for, Flash has two.
Fuck every JD fanboy who all of sudden comes and tries to diminish what Flash is doing at the moment. No bonjwa was ever as dominant as Flash is now. Fuck every Flash fanboy who all of a sudden comes and tries to diminish JD has BEEN doing for the past TWO YEARS. i don't hate flash, in fact i like him. but those ANNOYING flash fanboys want to call Flash bonjwa so bad just because he was doing a little better then jaedong for these past two months. did you forget jaedong was fucking getting surgery last month? and you say "no bonjwa was ever as dominant as flash is now" WTF?! exactly WHEN have you started watching the proscene?? I'm not sure about oov, boxer, and nada eras because i wasn't around for the whole time, but even sAviOr's reign in 06 was completely more monstrous then Flash's right now. let me explain to you exactly how dominating savior used to be. he came out of NOWHERE, and basically 3-0'd everyone without losing at all. boxer, nada, oov, midas. that would be the equivalent of someone we've never heard of before come out of nowhere and 3-0 flash, jaedong, a suddenly-in-shape bisu, and a well performing stork, and then proceed to hardly lose ANY game for a WHOLE YEAR. we were at a point where we thought okay, savior will never lose again. he will win the next 7 straight osl's and get a diamond mouse.
It is not all of a sudden, and it's not only Flash fanboys. The korean commentators has said he's above bonjwa status. His new nickname is God Young Ho. JD has not been doing what Flash does now for 2 years. In fact he has never been. JD never reached dual finals, Flash has now done that twice in a row. Flash has reached an ELO peak that is 80 higher than JD's highest, and all his MU's are higher than anyone else's has ever been (except one; JD's ZvZ). Flash won Winners Leagues on his own. He's boasting a winrate that is unprecedented, both if we look at the last year or so and overall. He hasn't been doing a ''little better'' than JD for ''2 months'', he been doing much better than JD since October.
Savior kept getting knocked out in OSL offline preliminaries when he was dominating, don't know what else to say.
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Did any of those bonjwas dominate while everyone else was sucking as bad as everyone was until recently? Effort crap, jaedong until recently bad, Stork... nowhere to be found, Bisu even worse, Calm... clam most of the time... everyone is just going bad-decent-bad lately, while only jaedong is going great-good-great! Flash is great-great-great so if he wasnt dominating badly, he would be bad
Doing it while nada, boxer, oov and then stork, bisu, flash, effort, calm are tearing it left and right has a bit more meaning to me...
not trying to say flash is bad, or jaedong > flash... just that 20 people can come up with different arguments why comparison works or doesnt work... (just giving my own)
my point is: way waaay to many variables to be able to compare people on even ground... you could go best this season... but best overall? no way... sry (except NaDa, hes nr1:D)
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On May 21 2010 00:34 Crimson)S(hadow wrote:
and you say "no bonjwa was ever as dominant as flash is now" WTF?! exactly WHEN have you started watching the proscene?? I'm not sure about oov, boxer, and nada eras because i wasn't around for the whole time, but even sAviOr's reign in 06 was completely more monstrous then Flash's right now. let me explain to you exactly how dominating savior used to be. he came out of NOWHERE, and basically 3-0'd everyone without losing at all. boxer, nada, oov, midas. that would be the equivalent of someone we've never heard of before come out of nowhere and 3-0 flash, jaedong, a suddenly-in-shape bisu, and a well performing stork, and then proceed to hardly lose ANY game for a WHOLE YEAR.
we were at a point where we thought okay, savior will never lose again. he will win the next 7 straight osl's and get a diamond mouse.
LOL, let me guess, you actually weren't there when Savior dominated were you?
Savior didn't come out of nowhere dominating everyone, that was iloveoov. Savior was also losing rather frequently in his BOs series, but coming on top in the end.
I'm not going to waste words anymore, take a lot at this
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=125325
You see that white? Yeah, Savior loses. Now compare it with the last third of Flash barcode. Go figure.
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On May 21 2010 00:34 Crimson)S(hadow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 00:17 Holgerius wrote:
I'm gonna say the same thing as I said in the PR thread; Flash has had all his MU's over 2300 ELO this month (and hit a new overall ELO record), broke the Kespa point record and has reached consecutive dual finals (which no one has ever done before) by completely roflstomping his opponents hard 3-0 in both the semi's. He's been the definite #1 on the scene since October whereas JD has been way inferior during most of this period. For every Bo5 JD has to prepare for, Flash has two.
Fuck every JD fanboy who all of sudden comes and tries to diminish what Flash is doing at the moment. No bonjwa was ever as dominant as Flash is now. Fuck every Flash fanboy who all of a sudden comes and tries to diminish JD has BEEN doing for the past TWO YEARS. i don't hate flash, in fact i like him. but those ANNOYING flash fanboys want to call Flash bonjwa so bad just because he was doing a little better then jaedong for these past two months. did you forget jaedong was fucking getting surgery last month? and you say "no bonjwa was ever as dominant as flash is now" WTF?! exactly WHEN have you started watching the proscene?? I'm not sure about oov, boxer, and nada eras because i wasn't around for the whole time, but even sAviOr's reign in 06 was completely more monstrous then Flash's right now. let me explain to you exactly how dominating savior used to be. he came out of NOWHERE, and basically 3-0'd everyone without losing at all. boxer, nada, oov, midas. that would be the equivalent of someone we've never heard of before come out of nowhere and 3-0 flash, jaedong, a suddenly-in-shape bisu, and a well performing stork, and then proceed to hardly lose ANY game for a WHOLE YEAR. we were at a point where we thought okay, savior will never lose again. he will win the next 7 straight osl's and get a diamond mouse.
lol what the fuck are you talking about.
savior lost loads of games, his winrate was NOT as good as the one that flash has had lately.
7 straight osl's, right, that's why he got beat in the osl qualifiers man.
Anyways, best part of the interview:
On May 20 2010 21:02 Smix wrote:Q How do you predict the OSL finals will go? A EffOrt’s in really good shape lately. I saw the recent game between Flash vs. EffOrt and EffOrt won. EffOrt’s playing so well lately that it makes it hard to predict what will happen in the finals so I honestly don’t know how things will go.
Take that, CJ haters. From someone who can judge skill much much better than any of us.
Thx for translation, Smix. So happy that we'll get to see flash and JD finals again.
Kinda weird situation for me though. I want effort to win vs flash, I want JD to win vs flash.
But I dont want Flash to lose both, that would just be too horrible for someone that strong.
Then again it was the same situation last MSL/OSL ^^
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On May 20 2010 21:15 roMAD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:12 Samurai- wrote:On May 20 2010 21:08 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:07 KristianJS wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the translation!
I'm not too sure about this statement though: "The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is."
If Flash wins OSL then he's this seasons best player irrespective of what happens in the MSL, but anyway. I'm hyped as hell for this final!! I disagree. If Jaedong wins in the finals against FlaSh AGAIN, he will be the better player in my eyes. LoL, no. If flash wins OSL he is the man, whatever the MSL result is. And why is that? Getting 2 consecutive OSL's > 2 consecutive MSL's, where he (FlaSh) loses to the same person in the finals twice? Amazing logic of FlaSh fans
He make it to the finals of both leagues... JD well... he isn't playing OSL right????
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I see the damage control over the potential Jaedong > Flash finals has already begun. Even hardcore Flash fanboys need to realize that no matter what Flash has done recently (and even if he manages to win both leagues), his career has still yet to top Jaedong's. If he eventually manages it, it's going to take time.
Btw savior's numbers (and not just in games played) never touched what Jaedong and Flash have put up. We've had some seriously long arguments about this in the past, and Jaedong/Flash have still been looking as impressive since.
I still don't see why people can't appreciate both. I'm going to be cheering as hard for Flash against Effort as I will for Jaedong against Flash. =P
On May 21 2010 01:48 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:02 Smix wrote:Q How do you predict the OSL finals will go? A EffOrt’s in really good shape lately. I saw the recent game between Flash vs. EffOrt and EffOrt won. EffOrt’s playing so well lately that it makes it hard to predict what will happen in the finals so I honestly don’t know how things will go. Take that, CJ haters. From someone who can judge skill much much better than any of us.
I think you're reading a bit too far into that. Jaedong just got done saying he's confident about beating Flash in the finals. He's not then going to say 'Yeah Flash is just too strong, he's going to destroy Effort!', both admitting Flash is scary and saying Effort is worse than him at the same time.
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I most certainly appreciate JD a lot. I would root for him against almost everyone who isn't Flash (I love when he loses against FBH and Stork though ) and I was absolutely overjoyed when he got his Golden Mouse, that was one of the happiest moments for me since I started following the proscene (only Stork's OSL gold (after losing so many finals he finally got that gold) and Flash's recent OSL win (to finally see him at the top again after such a long time of unfulfilled potential) were greater). If he takes down Flash next week he'll be taking a great step towards becoming the GOAT. JD's awesome.
But all that goes away whenever anyone starts to diminish Flash's recent dominance by spouting ''JD's #1'' out of the blue. It seriously makes me want to see JD fail. I want to see him get crushed. It turns me into a petty, small-minded, fanboy monster who would love nothing more than to see him lose vs everybody in the most humiliating fashion.
+ Show Spoiler +The rivalry between JD and Flash is epic. I almost wish that JD would win just so it lives on. And he really seems hell-bent on ruining Flash's aspiration to win 2 Golds, so it is not unlikely.
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God, all the Fingerboomers are so annoying.
I GOT YO BACK ROMAD.
JAEDONG IS KING!
And I still can't believe and lol at the people using power outage excuse to save Flash.
It makes me cringe.
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JD gives such a strong interview
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On May 20 2010 21:17 roMAD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:16 KristianJS wrote:On May 20 2010 21:15 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:12 Samurai- wrote:On May 20 2010 21:08 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:07 KristianJS wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the translation!
I'm not too sure about this statement though: "The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is."
If Flash wins OSL then he's this seasons best player irrespective of what happens in the MSL, but anyway. I'm hyped as hell for this final!! I disagree. If Jaedong wins in the finals against FlaSh AGAIN, he will be the better player in my eyes. LoL, no. If flash wins OSL he is the man, whatever the MSL result is. And why is that? Getting 2 consecutive OSL's > 2 consecutive MSL's, where he loses to the same person in the finals twice? Amazing logic of FlaSh fans Ummm, 2 Golds + 2 Silvers is a lot better than 2 Golds. And Flash's proleague results this season are much better than JD's as well. Honestly I think you'd have a hard time justifying your statement.. You are missing the point that FlaSh actually loses to Jaedong twice in the finals. How that doesn't prove that Jaedong is a better player?
So do you think FireBatHero is also a better player than sAviOr?
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^ It's stupid counter-examples like that that give fanboys such a terrible image.
Thanks for translating . Finals should be great!
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On May 21 2010 03:07 butchji wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:17 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:16 KristianJS wrote:On May 20 2010 21:15 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:12 Samurai- wrote:On May 20 2010 21:08 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:07 KristianJS wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the translation!
I'm not too sure about this statement though: "The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is."
If Flash wins OSL then he's this seasons best player irrespective of what happens in the MSL, but anyway. I'm hyped as hell for this final!! I disagree. If Jaedong wins in the finals against FlaSh AGAIN, he will be the better player in my eyes. LoL, no. If flash wins OSL he is the man, whatever the MSL result is. And why is that? Getting 2 consecutive OSL's > 2 consecutive MSL's, where he loses to the same person in the finals twice? Amazing logic of FlaSh fans Ummm, 2 Golds + 2 Silvers is a lot better than 2 Golds. And Flash's proleague results this season are much better than JD's as well. Honestly I think you'd have a hard time justifying your statement.. You are missing the point that FlaSh actually loses to Jaedong twice in the finals. How that doesn't prove that Jaedong is a better player? So do you think FireBatHero is also a better player than sAviOr?
At the time FBH was smacking savior around like a little bitch? Yes he was. Not overall career obviously but if we're going by that then Flash has nothing on Jaedong.
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Chances are either JD will 5 pool or Flash will proxy game 1. What an epic cheese fest it'll be!
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hmm ;D the MSL is lining up to be muchhh more epic than the OSL imo
back to TvZ finals.. where are the P's?
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Smix, you can take a break in two weeks and let l10f translate, cause yo boi Flash gonna get owned. =D
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On May 21 2010 00:12 saltywet wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 23:50 Mooncat wrote:
All this "what happens if" stuff is really starting to get annoying... Seriously, no one, no matter if he's a Flash fan or a JD fan or neutral or whatever can say if anyone of the two can be called the undisputed best player in the world after the MSL finals. There's just too much you have to take into account. What if it's tied 2-2 and JD 4/5pools? What if it goes 3-0 for JD? What if it goes 3-0 for Flash? Are the games close or are they one-sided? What about the OSL finals? What if it's a cruise missile destroying JD's computer this time when Flash seems to be ahead? You see where I'm going with this... so let's just wait and see what happens, kk?
i guess you're annoyed because by chance, even if effort manages to 3-0 flash, and jaedong gets 3-0'd by flash, effort wont even be ackknowledged as #1 or #2 :p
Uhm... I'm a Flash fan, not an EffOrt fan and nothing would please me more than to see Flash taking both finals in convincing fashion. The fact that CJ is my favorite team doesn't mean my favorite player is EffOrt, you know.
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On May 20 2010 21:25 fallingdream wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:17 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:16 KristianJS wrote:On May 20 2010 21:15 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:12 Samurai- wrote:On May 20 2010 21:08 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:07 KristianJS wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the translation!
I'm not too sure about this statement though: "The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is."
If Flash wins OSL then he's this seasons best player irrespective of what happens in the MSL, but anyway. I'm hyped as hell for this final!! I disagree. If Jaedong wins in the finals against FlaSh AGAIN, he will be the better player in my eyes. LoL, no. If flash wins OSL he is the man, whatever the MSL result is. And why is that? Getting 2 consecutive OSL's > 2 consecutive MSL's, where he loses to the same person in the finals twice? Amazing logic of FlaSh fans Ummm, 2 Golds + 2 Silvers is a lot better than 2 Golds. And Flash's proleague results this season are much better than JD's as well. Honestly I think you'd have a hard time justifying your statement.. You are missing the point that FlaSh actually loses to Jaedong twice in the finals. How that doesn't prove that Jaedong is a better player? I think you are missing the point that Flash is in both leagues 2 seasons in a row, something no one achieved, so to say that jd is going to be the better player if he wins MSL is just plain wrong or just hatred towards Flash. Your statement relies on the fact that jd beat Flash last season, I seem to recall a certain incident that I won't get into, that at the very least favored jd. Also just in case you are confused, preparing for 2 finals is harder then preparing for 1 final, especially considering the fact that jd gets to see what Flash tactics and reactions in certain situations. Please, get real.
Flash is just preparing for one final it. He's playing against 2 zergs so he can use the same builds or think of multiple BO against the two zergs..........
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First of all: Congrats Jeadong!
And big respect two both Flash and Jaedong making it to the finals again! People should be happy that we have such great champions playing these days instead of arguing about stats and status.
I'm gonna root for Flash once again, but whether Jaedong or Flash wins, it's gonna be entertaining. I swear if there's another outage chairs gonna fly.
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this will be an amazing final! thanks for the translation
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Guys guys guys. IF Jaedong wins, then he will have gotten his second golden mouse (3 OSL already, 2 MSL currently). Yea, that's right. He'll be tied with Nada for most golds ever, and Nada is like the great terran in starleague history. I'm afraid Jaedong might have to take the #1 spot for a while if he wins.
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On May 21 2010 04:05 tree.hugger wrote:The Department of Team Liquid Security has released it's monthly fanboy activity report. Player watch: Bisu Fans: In HidingsAviOr Fans: Blue Flash Fans: Rampaging (Argument advisory) Jaedong Fans: Rampaging (Argument advisory) Team WatchACE Fans: We're all ace fans!CJ Fans: ExcitableeSTRO fans: Disappointed.Hite SPARKYZ Fans: Missing, presumed extinct.Hwaseung OZ fans: See above: "Jaedong fans"KT Rolster fans: See above: "Flash fans"MBC Fans: WorryingSamsung KHAN Fans: Resigned.SKT T1 Fans: Blending in (Argument advisory lifted) STX Soul Fans: NormalWemade FOX Fans: Unsure.Woongjin Stars Fans: Realpenguin is doing fine, thank you.
GOLDEN POST XD lol
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lol I seriously cannot tell if roMAD is trolling everyone or not
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Jaedong is such a badass compared to Flash.
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On May 21 2010 04:05 tree.hugger wrote:The Department of Team Liquid Security has released it's monthly fanboy activity report. Player watch:Bisu Fans: In HidingsAviOr Fans: Blue Flash Fans: Rampaging (Argument advisory) Jaedong Fans: Rampaging (Argument advisory) Team WatchACE Fans: We're all ace fans!CJ Fans: ExcitableeSTRO fans: Disappointed.Hite SPARKYZ Fans: Missing, presumed extinct.Hwaseung OZ fans: See above: "Jaedong fans"KT Rolster fans: See above: "Flash fans"MBC Fans: WorryingSamsung KHAN Fans: Resigned.SKT T1 Fans: Blending in (Argument advisory lifted) STX Soul Fans: NormalWemade FOX Fans: Unsure.Woongjin Stars Fans: Realpenguin is doing fine, thank you.
Lol, good stuff.
The fanbase of whoever wins the final is gonna be so fucking annoying afterwards. XD I think it's gonna reach a completely new level.
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On May 21 2010 04:05 tree.hugger wrote:The Department of Team Liquid Security has released it's monthly fanboy activity report. Player watch:Bisu Fans: In HidingsAviOr Fans: Blue Flash Fans: Rampaging (Argument advisory) Jaedong Fans: Rampaging (Argument advisory) Team WatchACE Fans: We're all ace fans!CJ Fans: ExcitableeSTRO fans: Disappointed.Hite SPARKYZ Fans: Missing, presumed extinct.Hwaseung OZ fans: See above: "Jaedong fans"KT Rolster fans: See above: "Flash fans"MBC Fans: WorryingSamsung KHAN Fans: Resigned.SKT T1 Fans: Blending in (Argument advisory lifted) STX Soul Fans: NormalWemade FOX Fans: Unsure.Woongjin Stars Fans: Realpenguin is doing fine, thank you.
oh my god this post is sooo win
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Regardless of what happens in the final, this match officially solidifies Jaedong as the GOAT of 5 pooling.
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On May 20 2010 21:07 KristianJS wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the translation!
I'm not too sure about this statement though: "The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is."
If Flash wins OSL then he's this seasons best player irrespective of what happens in the MSL, but anyway. I'm hyped as hell for this final!!
Yeah but if Jaedong wins he will have 2 finals wins over Flash in a row which is pretty overwhelming.
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On May 21 2010 04:05 tree.hugger wrote:The Department of Team Liquid Security has released it's monthly fanboy activity report. Player watch:Bisu Fans: In HidingsAviOr Fans: Blue Flash Fans: Rampaging (Argument advisory) Jaedong Fans: Rampaging (Argument advisory) Team WatchACE Fans: We're all ace fans!CJ Fans: ExcitableeSTRO fans: Disappointed.Hite SPARKYZ Fans: Missing, presumed extinct.Hwaseung OZ fans: See above: "Jaedong fans"KT Rolster fans: See above: "Flash fans"MBC Fans: WorryingSamsung KHAN Fans: Resigned.SKT T1 Fans: Blending in (Argument advisory lifted) STX Soul Fans: NormalWemade FOX Fans: Unsure.Woongjin Stars Fans: Realpenguin is doing fine, thank you.
hahaha, awesome, and I miss realpenguin
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when was the last time the finals of any league had the same 2 players in it back to back?
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On May 21 2010 04:51 Ideas wrote:
when was the last time the finals of any league had the same 2 players in it back to back?
There never was until now. LEESANGROK HWAITING!
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thanks for super speedy translation smixor!
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On May 21 2010 04:05 tree.hugger wrote:The Department of Team Liquid Security has released it's monthly fanboy activity report. Player watch:Bisu Fans: In HidingsAviOr Fans: Blue Flash Fans: Rampaging (Argument advisory) Jaedong Fans: Rampaging (Argument advisory) Team WatchACE Fans: We're all ace fans!CJ Fans: ExcitableeSTRO fans: Disappointed.Hite SPARKYZ Fans: Missing, presumed extinct.Hwaseung OZ fans: See above: "Jaedong fans"KT Rolster fans: See above: "Flash fans"MBC Fans: WorryingSamsung KHAN Fans: Resigned.SKT T1 Fans: Blending in (Argument advisory lifted) STX Soul Fans: NormalWemade FOX Fans: Unsure.Woongjin Stars Fans: Realpenguin is doing fine, thank you.
I think you mistook Realpenguin for me :<
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On May 20 2010 21:20 Samurai- wrote:
Specially after power failure in the last MSL finals..
And this round Flash will be practicing solely TvZ =D
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JD prove you're the best XD
Looking forward to 3 good games
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On May 21 2010 02:41 SuperJongMan wrote:
God, all the Fingerboomers are so annoying.
I GOT YO BACK ROMAD.
JAEDONG IS KING!
And I still can't believe and lol at the people using power outage excuse to save Flash.
It makes me cringe.
QFFT. Jaedong is even more of a monster lately than usual, he has this, no question.
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On May 21 2010 01:53 QibingZero wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 01:48 7mk wrote:On May 20 2010 21:02 Smix wrote:Q How do you predict the OSL finals will go? A EffOrt’s in really good shape lately. I saw the recent game between Flash vs. EffOrt and EffOrt won. EffOrt’s playing so well lately that it makes it hard to predict what will happen in the finals so I honestly don’t know how things will go. Take that, CJ haters. From someone who can judge skill much much better than any of us. I think you're reading a bit too far into that. Jaedong just got done saying he's confident about beating Flash in the finals. He's not then going to say 'Yeah Flash is just too strong, he's going to destroy Effort!', both admitting Flash is scary and saying Effort is worse than him at the same time.
what you're saying makes perfect sense but why the fuck would you ruin this for me? ^^
Also I still think he's not just lying/ just being modest.
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Bisu will revive...
Someday...
Meanwhile, go Jaedong. Those are fighting words from his mouth.
Screw the Flash fans who think Effort stand no chance.
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I hope Flash wins the OSL and Jaedong takes the MSL, i like both players alot o_o
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I feel bad for Calm
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I wonder how all the KT fans will defend flash if he loses both finals...
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On May 21 2010 04:13 InFdude wrote:
I just want to remind you guys that if Jaedong wins this he will have 6 SL titles and IMO golden mouse and 3 MSL > golden mouse.
No one is arguing that so far Jaedong has accomplished more (more medals etc) during his career than Flash so far.
Aside from Elo records, kespa records, winning percentage and such...
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On May 21 2010 06:22 On_Slaught wrote:
I wonder how all the KT fans will defend flash if he loses both finals...
He was unlucky to have to play his weakest matchup in both finals. Some Storks and Kals, and it would've been easy-pie.
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Jaedong vs. Flash.... again.
I've been hoping for this for so long :D
Can't waittttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt.
Thanks for the translation!
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On May 21 2010 06:37 okum wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 06:22 On_Slaught wrote:
I wonder how all the KT fans will defend flash if he loses both finals... He was unlucky to have to play his weakest matchup in both finals. Some Storks and Kals, and it would've been easy-pie.
but then again TvZ is easier than TvP no?
easier being relative. Stork and Kal are doing way worse than Jaedong and Effort
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On May 21 2010 04:43 Trezeguet23 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:07 KristianJS wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the translation!
I'm not too sure about this statement though: "The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is."
If Flash wins OSL then he's this seasons best player irrespective of what happens in the MSL, but anyway. I'm hyped as hell for this final!! Yeah but if Jaedong wins he will have 2 finals wins over Flash in a row which is pretty overwhelming.
Overwhelming is kinda pushing it. In his peak years Federer lost to Nadal in the French Open Finals every single year yet that didn't somehow take away from Federer's other accomplishments and mean that Nadal was a better player in those years. You gotta look at the big picture.
Obviously Flash has a way to go before he catches up to JD in terms of overall starleague success, but even if Flash loses both MSL's to JD this year, if he wins both OSL's I don't think too much can be read into it. Flash still had the better year. Maybe Flash just is weak to Jaedong's particular playstyle (like Federer is to Nadal)
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On May 21 2010 07 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 21 2010 07 end_of_the_skype_highlighting begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 21 2010 07 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:32 KristianJS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 04:43 Trezeguet23 wrote:On May 20 2010 21:07 KristianJS wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the translation!
I'm not too sure about this statement though: "The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is."
If Flash wins OSL then he's this seasons best player irrespective of what happens in the MSL, but anyway. I'm hyped as hell for this final!! Yeah but if Jaedong wins he will have 2 finals wins over Flash in a row which is pretty overwhelming. Overwhelming is kinda pushing it. In his peak years Federer lost to Nadal in the French Open Finals every single year yet that didn't somehow take away from Federer's other accomplishments and mean that Nadal was a better player in those years. You gotta look at the big picture. Obviously Flash has a way to go before he catches up to JD in terms of overall starleague success, but even if Flash loses both MSL's to JD this year, if he wins both OSL's I don't think too much can be read into it. Flash still had the better year. Maybe Flash just is weak to Jaedong's particular playstyle (like Federer is to Nadal)
Except that Nadal is a clay specialist and no one was saying Nadal was worse than Federer on clay.
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The point is just that even being consistently beaten by another player in a final no less doesn't necessarily outweigh every other factor
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On May 21 2010 08:00 KristianJS wrote:The point is just that even being consistently beaten by another player in a final no less doesn't necessarily outweigh every other factor
once again using the tennis analogy
nadal is ahead of federer in H2H 14 - 7
yet Federer is the world ATP ranked number 1
its not all about losing the head to heads
its also about how well you play the smaller guys
and in Flash's case he's in both the MSL AND OSL
training for the number 1 and number 2 zergs in Jaedong and Effort respectively
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How can Flash say he is the best player if he has lost a finals twice in a row to the same player?
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Flash actually has a 4-3 record vs JD since his reign as a bonjwa started.
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In their past 31 games:
Flash is 26-5.
Jaedong is 25-6.
Of course I chose 31 because it coincides with Jaedong all-killing Sparkyz and ending his mild slump, but this is still a Bo5 between two dominant and mostly evenly-matched players.
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On May 21 2010 08:05 Trezeguet23 wrote:
How can Flash say he is the best player if he has lost a finals twice in a row to the same player?
This is seriously a flawed argument which has been dealt with a lot already this topic, even this very page. It's not all about head to head record. And if you wanna start talking like that, why not argue like this: how can JD call himself as good a player as Flash if he crashed out of the OSL the last two seasons while Flash made it to the finals both times?
Just please realize there's a bigger picture here than just looking at head to head records, even if it's in consecutive finals (see: Federer-Nadal).
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On May 21 2010 05:36 Fr33t wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 02:41 SuperJongMan wrote:
God, all the Fingerboomers are so annoying.
I GOT YO BACK ROMAD.
JAEDONG IS KING!
And I still can't believe and lol at the people using power outage excuse to save Flash.
It makes me cringe. QFFT. Jaedong is even more of a monster lately than usual, he has this, no question.
agreed Jaedong will win this like last MSL and no matter what people say Jaedong was going to win in that power outage hands down.
I can't wait for this rematch of jaedong winning again :D
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On May 21 2010 08:12 KristianJS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 08:05 Trezeguet23 wrote:
How can Flash say he is the best player if he has lost a finals twice in a row to the same player? This is seriously a flawed argument which has been dealt with a lot already this topic, even this very page. It's not all about head to head record. And if you wanna start talking like that, why not argue like this: how can JD call himself as good a player as Flash if he crashed out of the OSL the last two seasons while Flash made it to the finals both times? Just please realize there's a bigger picture here than just looking at head to head records, even if it's in consecutive finals (see: Federer-Nadal).
Ok... but to be fair this isn't just a head to head, this is the championship game that occurs at the end of the playoffs. I don't care if you had a better regular season record, if you don't win the championship you can't really call yourself the best.
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On May 21 2010 04:34 n.DieJokes wrote:
Regardless of what happens in the final, this match officially solidifies Jaedong as the GOAT of 5 pooling.
What about the time he 5-pooled Skyhigh in game 4 of the WL finals and then instead of continuing the pressure by making nothing but lings, changing to an econ approach after the initial rush stalled out? Maybe my memory is bad but I think that's how it went.
http://www.youtube.com/v/Dyr_q8XPPJA
EDIT: Go Jaedong! I've never been a huge Flash fan. I realize all the (legitimate?) bonjwas were terran so it fits but I'll always pull for the zergs :D
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On May 21 2010 08:18 Deletrious wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 08:12 KristianJS wrote:On May 21 2010 08:05 Trezeguet23 wrote:
How can Flash say he is the best player if he has lost a finals twice in a row to the same player? This is seriously a flawed argument which has been dealt with a lot already this topic, even this very page. It's not all about head to head record. And if you wanna start talking like that, why not argue like this: how can JD call himself as good a player as Flash if he crashed out of the OSL the last two seasons while Flash made it to the finals both times? Just please realize there's a bigger picture here than just looking at head to head records, even if it's in consecutive finals (see: Federer-Nadal). Ok... but to be fair this isn't just a head to head, this is the championship game that occurs at the end of the playoffs. I don't care if you had a better regular season record, if you don't win the championship you can't really call yourself the best.
This is basically all about the hypothetical "Flash wins OSL but JD wins MSL scenario"
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And Flash won just as many golds as JD last season AAAAANNNNNDDDD got a silver at the same time (and knocked out JD in that other league). Same thing could very well happen again.
But all this hypothetical stuff is getting silly (''If this happens your guy will suck, therefore your guy sucks'' ).
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for the sake of professional starcraft gaming, flash can't win both leagues. i am on jaedong side for this, with flash winnign both leagues and beating jaedong, his rival in a best of 5 in an individual league final will increase his mental edge too much. jaedong must stop flash for his own career's sake and all other progamers. this is david vs goliath!
anyoen remember flash after his first osl victory? kid just doens't stop winning once he gets like super confident and cocky. i think it'll be like fuckign 10x what happened if he pulls a dual gold.
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On May 21 2010 08:02 DreaM)XeRO wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 08:00 KristianJS wrote:The point is just that even being consistently beaten by another player in a final no less doesn't necessarily outweigh every other factor once again using the tennis analogy nadal is ahead of federer in H2H 14 - 7 yet Federer is the world ATP ranked number 1 its not all about losing the head to heads its also about how well you play the smaller guys
lol well if you want to look at it that way then Flash is already "world KeSPA ranked number 1" so what are you arguing about?
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On May 21 2010 08 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 21 2010 08 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:02 DreaM)XeRO wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 08:00 KristianJS wrote:The point is just that even being consistently beaten by another player in a final no less doesn't necessarily outweigh every other factor once again using the tennis analogy nadal is ahead of federer in H2H 14 - 7 yet Federer is the world ATP ranked number 1 its not all about losing the head to heads its also about how well you play the smaller guys and in Flash's case he's in both the MSL AND OSL training for the number 1 and number 2 zergs in Jaedong and Effort respectively
in tennis's case there's different surface types -_- And Federer has more titles than Nadal total, as does Fla.... wait.
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On May 21 2010 08:30 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 08 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 21 2010 08 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:02 DreaM)XeRO wrote:On May 21 2010 08:00 KristianJS wrote:The point is just that even being consistently beaten by another player in a final no less doesn't necessarily outweigh every other factor once again using the tennis analogy nadal is ahead of federer in H2H 14 - 7 yet Federer is the world ATP ranked number 1 its not all about losing the head to heads its also about how well you play the smaller guys and in Flash's case he's in both the MSL AND OSL training for the number 1 and number 2 zergs in Jaedong and Effort respectively in tennis's case there's different surface types -_- And Federer has more titles than Nadal total, as does Fla.... wait.
Why does everyone always miss the point of the Federer-Nadal analogy? The point being made with the analogy is just that it's not enough to say "Well in the last year player X beat player Y in two finals so he must be the better player". If you try to make some argument by narrowing down the picture that much you could end up making a case for just about anything.
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On May 21 2010 08:23 DatTheMighty wrote:
for the sake of professional starcraft gaming, flash can't win both leagues. i am on jaedong side for this, with flash winnign both leagues and beating jaedong, his rival in a best of 5 in an individual league final will increase his mental edge too much. jaedong must stop flash for his own career's sake and all other progamers. this is david vs goliath!
anyoen remember flash after his first osl victory? kid just doens't stop winning once he gets like super confident and cocky. i think it'll be like fuckign 10x what happened if he pulls a dual gold.
If JD wins and Flash loses both the finals we will have JD with 6 Starleague titles and Flash with 2. That would be a completely inaccurate proportion. Imagine if Flash won both these finals, the next OSL and then faces JD in the MSL final again. 5 titles vs 5, an epic match of who will first reach up to Nada's legendary level. :D Now that would be epic. I don't want JD to pull too far ahead in the race for the position as GOAT.
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On May 21 2010 04:05 tree.hugger wrote:The Department of Team Liquid Security has released it's monthly fanboy activity report. Player watch:Bisu Fans: In HidingsAviOr Fans: Blue Flash Fans: Rampaging (Argument advisory) Jaedong Fans: Rampaging (Argument advisory) Team WatchACE Fans: We're all ace fans!CJ Fans: ExcitableeSTRO fans: Disappointed.Hite SPARKYZ Fans: Missing, presumed extinct.Hwaseung OZ fans: See above: "Jaedong fans"KT Rolster fans: See above: "Flash fans"MBC Fans: WorryingSamsung KHAN Fans: Resigned.SKT T1 Fans: Blending in (Argument advisory lifted) STX Soul Fans: NormalWemade FOX Fans: Unsure.Woongjin Stars Fans: Realpenguin (and Grobyc!) are doing fine, thank you.
I thought excitement in CJ means (-_-)
gold post, though.
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On May 21 2010 08:21 KristianJS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 08:18 Deletrious wrote:On May 21 2010 08:12 KristianJS wrote:On May 21 2010 08:05 Trezeguet23 wrote:
How can Flash say he is the best player if he has lost a finals twice in a row to the same player? This is seriously a flawed argument which has been dealt with a lot already this topic, even this very page. It's not all about head to head record. And if you wanna start talking like that, why not argue like this: how can JD call himself as good a player as Flash if he crashed out of the OSL the last two seasons while Flash made it to the finals both times? Just please realize there's a bigger picture here than just looking at head to head records, even if it's in consecutive finals (see: Federer-Nadal). Ok... but to be fair this isn't just a head to head, this is the championship game that occurs at the end of the playoffs. I don't care if you had a better regular season record, if you don't win the championship you can't really call yourself the best. This is basically all about the hypothetical "Flash wins OSL but JD wins MSL scenario"
Cause it is a foregone conclusion.
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yes, flash vs jaedong im so happy.
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Man, I'm arguing so much about hypotheticals and the finals are still more than a week till. If Flash loses to JD I'm gonna forbid myself from coming here for like two weeks at least >_<
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On May 21 2010 08 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 21 2010 08 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:36 KristianJS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 08:30 Shikyo wrote:On May 21 2010 08 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 21 2010 08 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:02 DreaM)XeRO wrote:On May 21 2010 08:00 KristianJS wrote:The point is just that even being consistently beaten by another player in a final no less doesn't necessarily outweigh every other factor once again using the tennis analogy nadal is ahead of federer in H2H 14 - 7 yet Federer is the world ATP ranked number 1 its not all about losing the head to heads its also about how well you play the smaller guys and in Flash's case he's in both the MSL AND OSL training for the number 1 and number 2 zergs in Jaedong and Effort respectively in tennis's case there's different surface types -_- And Federer has more titles than Nadal total, as does Fla.... wait. Why does everyone always miss the point of the Federer-Nadal analogy? The point being made with the analogy is just that it's not enough to say "Well in the last year player X beat player Y in two finals so he must be the better player". If you try to make some argument by narrowing down the picture that much you could end up making a case for just about anything.
Uhh Tennis can't be compared simply because Nadal IS the better clay player O_O
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Lol, I love the flame warring that's going to consume these forums until... probably a month after the MSL finals (Especially with no SC2 to distract us!)
If Jaedong beats Flash, I'll say Jaedong is better than Flash. I'd say across the board, Flash is actually a more consistent player (except last week against CJ Entus, but it happens) while Jaedong is a very strong individual player.
Regardless, both of them are the best in the SC world, to the point of which it's hard for me to even say one can truly be "better" than the other. They both dominate their worlds completely.
But personally, 1v1 fight to the death is always the best way to determine who's better. It's what makes life interesting.
On a side note, actually relevant to the OP, I always like Jaedong's interview, because he's pretty respectful for a tyrant. Thanks for the TL!
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On May 21 2010 09:25 ghosthunter wrote:
Lol, I love the flame warring that's going to consume these forums until... probably a month after the MSL finals (Especially with no SC2 to distract us!)
If Jaedong beats Flash, I'll say Jaedong is better than Flash. I'd say across the board, Flash is actually a more consistent player (except last week against CJ Entus, but it happens) while Jaedong is a very strong individual player.
Regardless, both of them are the best in the SC world, to the point of which it's hard for me to even say one can truly be "better" than the other. They both dominate their worlds completely.
But personally, 1v1 fight to the death is always the best way to determine who's better. It's what makes life interesting.
On a side note, actually relevant to the OP, I always like Jaedong's interview, because he's pretty respectful for a tyrant. Thanks for the TL!
Hmm 1v1 fights to the death don't make my life more interesting :/
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On May 21 2010 09:13 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 08 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 21 2010 08 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:36 KristianJS wrote:On May 21 2010 08:30 Shikyo wrote:On May 21 2010 08 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 21 2010 08 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:02 DreaM)XeRO wrote:On May 21 2010 08:00 KristianJS wrote:The point is just that even being consistently beaten by another player in a final no less doesn't necessarily outweigh every other factor once again using the tennis analogy nadal is ahead of federer in H2H 14 - 7 yet Federer is the world ATP ranked number 1 its not all about losing the head to heads its also about how well you play the smaller guys and in Flash's case he's in both the MSL AND OSL training for the number 1 and number 2 zergs in Jaedong and Effort respectively in tennis's case there's different surface types -_- And Federer has more titles than Nadal total, as does Fla.... wait. Why does everyone always miss the point of the Federer-Nadal analogy? The point being made with the analogy is just that it's not enough to say "Well in the last year player X beat player Y in two finals so he must be the better player". If you try to make some argument by narrowing down the picture that much you could end up making a case for just about anything. Uhh Tennis can't be compared simply because Nadal IS the better clay player O_O
Not to mention the shear number of tournaments, I feel like PL is different since players often only get put out on maps that they have had success on, if zerg stinks on a map, Jaedong will not be sent out to lose on it.
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On May 21 2010 04:05 tree.hugger wrote:The Department of Team Liquid Security has released it's monthly fanboy activity report. Player watch:Bisu Fans: In HidingsAviOr Fans: Blue Flash Fans: Rampaging (Argument advisory) Jaedong Fans: Rampaging (Argument advisory) Team WatchACE Fans: We're all ace fans!CJ Fans: ExcitableeSTRO fans: Disappointed.Hite SPARKYZ Fans: Missing, presumed extinct.Hwaseung OZ fans: See above: "Jaedong fans"KT Rolster fans: See above: "Flash fans"MBC Fans: WorryingSamsung KHAN Fans: Resigned.SKT T1 Fans: Blending in (Argument advisory lifted) STX Soul Fans: NormalWemade FOX Fans: Unsure.Woongjin Stars Fans: Realpenguin (and Grobyc!) are doing fine, thank you.
Hahahaha. Pure win.
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On May 21 2010 06:22 On_Slaught wrote:
I wonder how all the KT fans will defend flash if he loses both finals...
With blind aggression and anger. OLLLLLLEHHHHHH.
Anyways, congrats Jaedong. Found myself rooting for Calm in game 4 though.. which was surprising. I think I just wanted it to be a 5 game series.
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As a JD fan I of course want JD to win, but fuck! It's Flash vs. JD! It will be epic either way!
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is awesome32274 Posts
It's Zerg Time! Go Jaedong, Go EffOrt!
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
If Jaedong beats Flash, he's necessarily not better or worse than Flash. If Flash beats Jaedong, he's not necessarily better or worse than Jaedong. If the games are close, it'll be impossible to tell.
I mean, it's a little difficult to argue that Flash hasn't been playing "untouchable" for "longer". But it's also difficult to argue that Jaedong hasn't been playing "better" for "longer". So who cares?
But does it not satisfy anyone to support a good player, or even a great player? Must be constantly be trying to define out favorite player as the "best" player? Or perhaps the "bestest" player? I mean, why is this even necessary?
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On May 21 2010 04:05 tree.hugger wrote:The Department of Team Liquid Security has released it's monthly fanboy activity report. Player watch:Bisu Fans: In HidingsAviOr Fans: Blue Flash Fans: Rampaging (Argument advisory) Jaedong Fans: Rampaging (Argument advisory) Team WatchACE Fans: We're all ace fans!CJ Fans: ExcitableeSTRO fans: Disappointed.Hite SPARKYZ Fans: Missing, presumed extinct.Hwaseung OZ fans: See above: "Jaedong fans"KT Rolster fans: See above: "Flash fans"MBC Fans: WorryingSamsung KHAN Fans: Resigned.SKT T1 Fans: Blending in (Argument advisory lifted) STX Soul Fans: NormalWemade FOX Fans: Unsure.Woongjin Stars Fans: Realpenguin (and Grobyc!) are doing fine, thank you.
Sweet! I'm normal, in hiding, blue, rampaging and rampaging.
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Fuck yah 5 pool.
1998 strat still works wonders against modern macro builds ^_^
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On May 20 2010 21:17 roMAD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:16 KristianJS wrote:On May 20 2010 21:15 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:12 Samurai- wrote:On May 20 2010 21:08 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:07 KristianJS wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the translation!
I'm not too sure about this statement though: "The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is."
If Flash wins OSL then he's this seasons best player irrespective of what happens in the MSL, but anyway. I'm hyped as hell for this final!! I disagree. If Jaedong wins in the finals against FlaSh AGAIN, he will be the better player in my eyes. LoL, no. If flash wins OSL he is the man, whatever the MSL result is. And why is that? Getting 2 consecutive OSL's > 2 consecutive MSL's, where he loses to the same person in the finals twice? Amazing logic of FlaSh fans Ummm, 2 Golds + 2 Silvers is a lot better than 2 Golds. And Flash's proleague results this season are much better than JD's as well. Honestly I think you'd have a hard time justifying your statement.. You are missing the point that FlaSh actually loses to Jaedong twice in the finals. How that doesn't prove that Jaedong is a better player?
No.
If you want to say that JD beat Flash and thus he's a better player, you have to look at the OSL. Flash beat JD in the OSL once, and JD lost to Baby who eventually lost, ultimately to Flash. In the end, JD never had the ability to make the last two OSL finals, while Flash did.
I'm not saying that Flash is a better player than JD. However, you can't use that logic and say that JD is a better player.
Who is the better player will be determined at the next finals... because this hopefully will be a fair and straightforward match that won't have any family drama/heater drama. Then we can see Flash at his peak vs JD at his peak... and this should be the ultimate test.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On May 21 2010 10:53 Wings wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:17 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:16 KristianJS wrote:On May 20 2010 21:15 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:12 Samurai- wrote:On May 20 2010 21:08 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:07 KristianJS wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the translation!
I'm not too sure about this statement though: "The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is."
If Flash wins OSL then he's this seasons best player irrespective of what happens in the MSL, but anyway. I'm hyped as hell for this final!! I disagree. If Jaedong wins in the finals against FlaSh AGAIN, he will be the better player in my eyes. LoL, no. If flash wins OSL he is the man, whatever the MSL result is. And why is that? Getting 2 consecutive OSL's > 2 consecutive MSL's, where he loses to the same person in the finals twice? Amazing logic of FlaSh fans Ummm, 2 Golds + 2 Silvers is a lot better than 2 Golds. And Flash's proleague results this season are much better than JD's as well. Honestly I think you'd have a hard time justifying your statement.. You are missing the point that FlaSh actually loses to Jaedong twice in the finals. How that doesn't prove that Jaedong is a better player? No. If you want to say that JD beat Flash and thus he's a better player, you have to look at the OSL. Flash beat JD in the OSL once, and JD lost to Baby who eventually lost, ultimately to Flash. In the end, JD never had the ability to make the last two OSL finals, while Flash did. I'm not saying that Flash is a better player than JD. However, you can't use that logic and say that JD is a better player. Who is the better player will be determined at the next finals... because this hopefully will be a fair and straightforward match that won't have any family drama/heater drama. Then we can see Flash at his peak vs JD at his peak... and this should be the ultimate test.
If Jaedong beats Flash in the finals, I'll be ready to crown his ass and say Jaedong > Flash. Two straight MSL final victories over Flash is enough to make me say JD > Flash at the highest level.
Plus, with your logic, I can say Hyuk > Jaedong. Jaedong > Flash, so Hyuk > Flash. No one would ever try to make that argument. (Except maybe on Blue Storm).
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This Jaedong fanboyism is getting out of hand. I really want to like him and cheer for good close games in MSL, but some people are making it extremely hard. Lets take a look at some facts, shall we?
Fact 1: Flash and JD are 4:3 in recent history (by recent I mean this and last season OSL/MSL + adequate SPL period, because if you wanna include previous MSL, you sure as hell cannot dodge last OSL). Yeah, that's right, Flash has more wins over JD than he has loses. Maybe somebody wants to pretend they only played in MSL and ignore the rest, but it doesn't work that way. JD got his ass whooped when they met in OSL and he lost again right after the MSL finals in ace match in winners league.
Fact 2: Flash has recenty broken almost every imaginable record. Highest Kespa rank ever, highest Elo ever BY FAR, he is the first progamer ever who had two MUs over 2300. Heck, he had EVERY MU over 2300. He had TvP higher than Jaedong ZvP! (You could argue that JD didn't play any protoss recently...well, maybe if he didn't get kicked out of OSL so soon, he could, like Flash or Effort did).
Fact 3: Flash is the first player ever who managed to reach double consecutive finals. Lets stop for a moment and think about it. Never ever in the whole history of BW there was a player who achieved that. Not Boxer, not iloveoov, not Nada, not Savior and definitely not Jaedong.
Fact 4: Flash is the best player in proleague. Yeah you are reading it right, not only he got to double consecutive finals, he at the same time scored most wins in PL. He even won the Winners league playoff for KT, something Jaedong failed to do when he had the chance last year (although he was really close).
And you are going to throw everything out of the window and say JD>Flash because of two BO5? Two BO5 which could together be played easily under 8 hours? Two BO5 from which one is already one of the most controversial and fucked up finals ever? Really? I mean...really?
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Jaedong has all week to look at VODs.
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On May 21 2010 12:08 adelarge wrote:
This Jaedong fanboyism is getting out of hand. I really want to like him and cheer for good close games in MSL, but some people are making it extremely hard. Lets take a look at some facts, shall we?
Fact 1: Flash and JD are 4:3 in recent history (by recent I mean this and last season OSL/MSL + adequate SPL period, because if you wanna include previous MSL, you sure as hell cannot dodge last OSL). Yeah, that's right, Flash has more wins over JD than he has loses. Maybe somebody wants to pretend they only played in MSL and ignore the rest, but it doesn't work that way. JD got his ass whooped when they met in OSL and he lost again right after the MSL finals in ace match in winners league.
Fact 2: Flash has recenty broken almost every imaginable record. Highest Kespa rank ever, highest Elo ever BY FAR, he is the first progamer ever who had two MUs over 2300. Heck, he had EVERY MU over 2300. He had TvP higher than Jaedong ZvP! (You could argue that JD didn't play any protoss recently...well, maybe if he didn't get kicked out of OSL so soon, he could, like Flash or Effort did).
Fact 3: Flash is the first player ever who managed to reach double consecutive finals. Lets stop for a moment and think about it. Never ever in the whole history of BW there was a player who achieved that. Not Boxer, not iloveoov, not Nada, not Savior and definitely not Jaedong.
Fact 4: Flash is the best player in proleague. Yeah you are reading it right, not only he got to double consecutive finals, he at the same time scored most wins in PL. He even won the Winners league playoff for KT, something Jaedong failed to do when he had the chance last year (although he was really close).
And you are going to throw everything out of the window and say JD>Flash because of two BO5? Two BO5 which could together be played easily under 8 hours? Two BO5 from which one is already one of the most controversial and fucked up finals ever? Really? I mean...really?
yes and this is what makes him a favorite, that does not make him better. Jaedong still has one HELL of a chance. I cannot see flash autowinning, but if jaedong does win, it does mean he is stronger in Bo5 against flash.
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On May 21 2010 12:08 adelarge wrote:
This Jaedong fanboyism is getting out of hand. I really want to like him and cheer for good close games in MSL, but some people are making it extremely hard. Lets take a look at some facts, shall we?
Fact 1: Flash and JD are 4:3 in recent history (by recent I mean this and last season OSL/MSL + adequate SPL period, because if you wanna include previous MSL, you sure as hell cannot dodge last OSL). Yeah, that's right, Flash has more wins over JD than he has loses. Maybe somebody wants to pretend they only played in MSL and ignore the rest, but it doesn't work that way. JD got his ass whooped when they met in OSL and he lost again right after the MSL finals in ace match in winners league.
Fact 2: Flash has recenty broken almost every imaginable record. Highest Kespa rank ever, highest Elo ever BY FAR, he is the first progamer ever who had two MUs over 2300. Heck, he had EVERY MU over 2300. He had TvP higher than Jaedong ZvP! (You could argue that JD didn't play any protoss recently...well, maybe if he didn't get kicked out of OSL so soon, he could, like Flash or Effort did).
Fact 3: Flash is the first player ever who managed to reach double consecutive finals. Lets stop for a moment and think about it. Never ever in the whole history of BW there was a player who achieved that. Not Boxer, not iloveoov, not Nada, not Savior and definitely not Jaedong.
Fact 4: Flash is the best player in proleague. Yeah you are reading it right, not only he got to double consecutive finals, he at the same time scored most wins in PL. He even won the Winners league playoff for KT, something Jaedong failed to do when he had the chance last year (although he was really close).
And you are going to throw everything out of the window and say JD>Flash because of two BO5? Two BO5 which could together be played easily under 8 hours? Two BO5 from which one is already one of the most controversial and fucked up finals ever? Really? I mean...really?
Thou speak'st aright, young grasshopper!
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On May 21 2010 12:16 Enderbantoo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 12:08 adelarge wrote:
This Jaedong fanboyism is getting out of hand. I really want to like him and cheer for good close games in MSL, but some people are making it extremely hard. Lets take a look at some facts, shall we?
Fact 1: Flash and JD are 4:3 in recent history (by recent I mean this and last season OSL/MSL + adequate SPL period, because if you wanna include previous MSL, you sure as hell cannot dodge last OSL). Yeah, that's right, Flash has more wins over JD than he has loses. Maybe somebody wants to pretend they only played in MSL and ignore the rest, but it doesn't work that way. JD got his ass whooped when they met in OSL and he lost again right after the MSL finals in ace match in winners league.
Fact 2: Flash has recenty broken almost every imaginable record. Highest Kespa rank ever, highest Elo ever BY FAR, he is the first progamer ever who had two MUs over 2300. Heck, he had EVERY MU over 2300. He had TvP higher than Jaedong ZvP! (You could argue that JD didn't play any protoss recently...well, maybe if he didn't get kicked out of OSL so soon, he could, like Flash or Effort did).
Fact 3: Flash is the first player ever who managed to reach double consecutive finals. Lets stop for a moment and think about it. Never ever in the whole history of BW there was a player who achieved that. Not Boxer, not iloveoov, not Nada, not Savior and definitely not Jaedong.
Fact 4: Flash is the best player in proleague. Yeah you are reading it right, not only he got to double consecutive finals, he at the same time scored most wins in PL. He even won the Winners league playoff for KT, something Jaedong failed to do when he had the chance last year (although he was really close).
And you are going to throw everything out of the window and say JD>Flash because of two BO5? Two BO5 which could together be played easily under 8 hours? Two BO5 from which one is already one of the most controversial and fucked up finals ever? Really? I mean...really? yes and this is what makes him a favorite, that does not make him better. Jaedong still has one HELL of a chance. I cannot see flash autowinning, but if jaedong does win, it does mean he is stronger in Bo5 against flash.
I'm not arguing against that! I just disagree with this BO5 overwriting everything else, which many people here suggest.
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got his ass whooped in PL right after MSL? He basically had it in the bag until he forgot consume....
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On May 21 2010 12:20 adelarge wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 12:16 Enderbantoo wrote:On May 21 2010 12:08 adelarge wrote:
This Jaedong fanboyism is getting out of hand. I really want to like him and cheer for good close games in MSL, but some people are making it extremely hard. Lets take a look at some facts, shall we?
Fact 1: Flash and JD are 4:3 in recent history (by recent I mean this and last season OSL/MSL + adequate SPL period, because if you wanna include previous MSL, you sure as hell cannot dodge last OSL). Yeah, that's right, Flash has more wins over JD than he has loses. Maybe somebody wants to pretend they only played in MSL and ignore the rest, but it doesn't work that way. JD got his ass whooped when they met in OSL and he lost again right after the MSL finals in ace match in winners league.
Fact 2: Flash has recenty broken almost every imaginable record. Highest Kespa rank ever, highest Elo ever BY FAR, he is the first progamer ever who had two MUs over 2300. Heck, he had EVERY MU over 2300. He had TvP higher than Jaedong ZvP! (You could argue that JD didn't play any protoss recently...well, maybe if he didn't get kicked out of OSL so soon, he could, like Flash or Effort did).
Fact 3: Flash is the first player ever who managed to reach double consecutive finals. Lets stop for a moment and think about it. Never ever in the whole history of BW there was a player who achieved that. Not Boxer, not iloveoov, not Nada, not Savior and definitely not Jaedong.
Fact 4: Flash is the best player in proleague. Yeah you are reading it right, not only he got to double consecutive finals, he at the same time scored most wins in PL. He even won the Winners league playoff for KT, something Jaedong failed to do when he had the chance last year (although he was really close).
And you are going to throw everything out of the window and say JD>Flash because of two BO5? Two BO5 which could together be played easily under 8 hours? Two BO5 from which one is already one of the most controversial and fucked up finals ever? Really? I mean...really? yes and this is what makes him a favorite, that does not make him better. Jaedong still has one HELL of a chance. I cannot see flash autowinning, but if jaedong does win, it does mean he is stronger in Bo5 against flash. I'm not arguing against that! I just disagree with this BO5 overwriting everything else, which many people here suggest.
Personally, I think BO5s matter most in this situation since we're looking at who's going to win in a BO5 in a league final, but deciding best player? Nah. I mean, I think they matter a lot since it is when the pressure is ON, and when it matters most.
But anyway, aside from that, an interesting thing:
In individual leagues, Flash>Jaedong in BO3s, every single one.
In BO5s, Jaedong>Flash, every single one. c-c-c-craaaaaaazy.
Although, in BO1s, they're 1:1 in individual leagues.
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On May 21 2010 12:24 Ideas wrote:
got his ass whooped in PL right after MSL? He basically had it in the bag until he forgot consume....
Maybe you should read that sentence again, I simply stated that JD lost in the ace match, which he did. In the OSL, on the other hand, it was rape which would make mentaly weaker players cry in the corner.
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On May 21 2010 12:08 adelarge wrote:
Fact 2: Flash has recenty broken almost every imaginable record. Highest Kespa rank ever, highest Elo ever BY FAR, he is the first progamer ever who had two MUs over 2300. Heck, he had EVERY MU over 2300. He had TvP higher than Jaedong ZvP! (You could argue that JD didn't play any protoss recently...well, maybe if he didn't get kicked out of OSL so soon, he could, like Flash or Effort did).
elo is very overrated... what we have now is a larger pool of much worse players, thus resulting in higher points for players in good shape
flash's current competition: free, kal, baby, great, mvp, midas, sea (current power rank)
jaedong on his prime had to face: bisu, stork, fantasy, best, ggplay, hwasin (10/15/2008 power rank)
On May 21 2010 12:08 adelarge wrote:
And you are going to throw everything out of the window and say JD>Flash because of two BO5? Two BO5 which could together be played easily under 8 hours? Two BO5 from which one is already one of the most controversial and fucked up finals ever? Really? I mean...really?
actually JD vs flash in bo5 is 3-0 for jaedong (3-1, 3-0, 3-1)...
yes, flash is in better shape right now imo, but imo it is clear who the overall better player is
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If Jaedong beats Flash convincingly, he is the better player, imo.
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There's a lot of "what ifs" being thrown around this thread. Let's just wait and see what happens...
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On May 21 2010 00:01 Crunchums wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 23:30 Waxangel wrote:whoa, Shine and RorO helped out JD? That's some pretty decent help! Can Shine get some love now please, from grateful JD fans? fuck shine in his stupid face >: 3 i blame him for having to sit through FLASH VS... movie? instead of STORK
Try blaming Stork for playing like shit.
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Flash fanboys are getting way out of hand, what if he loses in both leagues?
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If Jaedong gets another gold over Flash that means he's the better player in the context of their own personal rivalry. I think even Flash would have to admit that.
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I can't believe we've reached a point where a player reached four out of the last four finals and people are trying to come up with ways to discredit him.
Here's the list of other people who made as many finals in their ENTIRE CAREER than Flash made in the last two seasons. There's a good chance you'll recognize a lot of them, and for good reason:
Nada
Savior
Oov
Jaedong
Boxer
Yellow*
Bisu
Stork
Reach
Nal_Ra
July
Chojja
* only one to never win, poor guy
Oh and Flash is 51-9 in Proleague, 54-9 if you include the Winners League finals. He's also beaten pretty much every single top player at least once in Proleague. Look at that record again: 54-9!!!!!
Nobody is denying that Jaedong is an incredible player. He has now made 6 finals in his career I believe he's the greatest of all time already. He's also made a final in 4 straight seasons and I believe 6 out of the last 8? Or is it 6 out of the last 7? It's simply incredible what Jaedong has done. But nobody has ever dominated to the degree Flash is dominating right now, for as long as Flash has dominated at this level. Flash fans simply want that to be acknowledged is all.
Jaedong is really great - if he's not already the GOAT he will be shortly. Nobody should try to discredit his incredible career accomplishments, as well as how well he has played lately.
But similarly people should stop downplaying what Flash has done in the past 8 months, even if he loses both finals (which I highly doubt).
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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
=.=
Smix look what you have done...
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On May 21 2010 08:37 bearbuddy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 04:05 tree.hugger wrote:The Department of Team Liquid Security has released it's monthly fanboy activity report. Player watch:Bisu Fans: In HidingsAviOr Fans: Blue Flash Fans: Rampaging (Argument advisory) Jaedong Fans: Rampaging (Argument advisory) Team WatchACE Fans: We're all ace fans!CJ Fans: ExcitableeSTRO fans: Disappointed.Hite SPARKYZ Fans: Missing, presumed extinct.Hwaseung OZ fans: See above: "Jaedong fans"KT Rolster fans: See above: "Flash fans"MBC Fans: WorryingSamsung KHAN Fans: Resigned.SKT T1 Fans: Blending in (Argument advisory lifted) STX Soul Fans: NormalWemade FOX Fans: Unsure.Woongjin Stars Fans: Realpenguin (and Grobyc!) are doing fine, thank you. I thought excitement in CJ means (-_-) gold post, though.
CJ fans: (-_-)
SuperArc: Excitable
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On May 21 2010 13:53 BarneyEX wrote:
Flash fanboys are getting way out of hand, what if he loses in both leagues?
Then Flash would have 2 SL golds and JD would have 6.
Would be hard to put Flash as #1 in PR if that was the case (especially since a lot of the fans arguments is that Flash has been good over a certain amount of time which they determine to be relevant... fact is in the last 31 games, as someone said earlier, they are equal in w/L)
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Oh god, he raped Shine / Roro while practices
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I wish I was a Jaedong fan. I mean Flash is only in two Star League finals right now, really kinda pathetic.
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I don't really see why people are causing such a stir over this.
Jaedong is one of the best and will go down in the history of SC as one of the best. Flash will undoubtedly match that and will etch his name alongside his rival.
As for now, these are the top two players in the entire world and they will duke it out to see who will come out on top. I doubt either are thinking even a fraction of what is being discussed here. They are simply focused on beating the other and claiming the gold.
All we can do is sit back and enjoy.
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On May 20 2010 21:28 roMAD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2010 21:25 fallingdream wrote:On May 20 2010 21:17 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:16 KristianJS wrote:On May 20 2010 21:15 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:12 Samurai- wrote:On May 20 2010 21:08 roMAD wrote:On May 20 2010 21:07 KristianJS wrote:
Awesome, thanks for the translation!
I'm not too sure about this statement though: "The upcoming finals match will discern who this season’s true best player is."
If Flash wins OSL then he's this seasons best player irrespective of what happens in the MSL, but anyway. I'm hyped as hell for this final!! I disagree. If Jaedong wins in the finals against FlaSh AGAIN, he will be the better player in my eyes. LoL, no. If flash wins OSL he is the man, whatever the MSL result is. And why is that? Getting 2 consecutive OSL's > 2 consecutive MSL's, where he loses to the same person in the finals twice? Amazing logic of FlaSh fans Ummm, 2 Golds + 2 Silvers is a lot better than 2 Golds. And Flash's proleague results this season are much better than JD's as well. Honestly I think you'd have a hard time justifying your statement.. You are missing the point that FlaSh actually loses to Jaedong twice in the finals. How that doesn't prove that Jaedong is a better player? I think you are missing the point that Flash is in both leagues 2 seasons in a row, something no one achieved, so to say that jd is going to be the better player if he wins MSL is just plain wrong or just hatred towards Flash. Your statement relies on the fact that jd beat Flash last season, I seem to recall a certain incident that I won't get into, that at the very least favored jd. Also just in case you are confused, preparing for 2 finals is harder then preparing for 1 final, especially considering the fact that jd gets to see what Flash tactics and reactions in certain situations. Please, get real. I love how FlaSh fans only mention the disadvantages of his preparing for the finals where he will play 2 zergs. The maps are different, the matchup to prepare for is only one, there's a whole week to prepare between the finals.
oh look at your icon too ?
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Smix
United States4549 Posts
On May 21 2010 14:11 flamewheel91 wrote:
=.=
Smix look what you have done...
this was bound to happen regardless ;;;
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On May 21 2010 04:05 tree.hugger wrote:The Department of Team Liquid Security has released it's monthly fanboy activity report. Team WatchHite SPARKYZ Fans: Missing, presumed extinct.
I'm dead!
But really, there isn't much to cheer about as a Hite fan... So many of our players got caught in the scandal, Leta hasn't been living up to all that hype from so long ago, no type-b!!, and myriads of other crap makes me a sad Panda.
But JAEDONG HWAITING!
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United States47024 Posts
On May 21 2010 12:45 LG)Sabbath wrote:
flash's current competition: free, kal, baby, great, mvp, midas, sea (current power rank)
jaedong on his prime had to face: bisu, stork, fantasy, best, ggplay, hwasin (10/15/2008 power rank)
I'm curious why you chose 10/15/08 as Jaedong's "prime". He won no leagues in that period, and that was really just the interim between Flash's 2008 dominance and the start of the Six Dragons' period of Protoss dominance. The mid-2009 period where Jaedong won both his OSLs is much more appropriate for what could be considered Jaedong's prime. The only reason I can see you not using those PRs instead is because you think PRs including Canata, Kwanro, and Iris don't work out strongly enough for your argument.
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On May 21 2010 09:13 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 08 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 21 2010 08 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:36 KristianJS wrote:On May 21 2010 08:30 Shikyo wrote:On May 21 2010 08 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 21 2010 08 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:02 DreaM)XeRO wrote:On May 21 2010 08:00 KristianJS wrote:The point is just that even being consistently beaten by another player in a final no less doesn't necessarily outweigh every other factor once again using the tennis analogy nadal is ahead of federer in H2H 14 - 7 yet Federer is the world ATP ranked number 1 its not all about losing the head to heads its also about how well you play the smaller guys and in Flash's case he's in both the MSL AND OSL training for the number 1 and number 2 zergs in Jaedong and Effort respectively in tennis's case there's different surface types -_- And Federer has more titles than Nadal total, as does Fla.... wait. Why does everyone always miss the point of the Federer-Nadal analogy? The point being made with the analogy is just that it's not enough to say "Well in the last year player X beat player Y in two finals so he must be the better player". If you try to make some argument by narrowing down the picture that much you could end up making a case for just about anything. Uhh Tennis can't be compared simply because Nadal IS the better clay player O_O
It's not a perfect analogy, but like I said, it demonstrates that you need to look at the bigger picture when asking yourself who the best player of the season or year or 5 years is. It's meaningless to only look at the head to head record between two players while ignoring everything else, because by that logic you'd have to say Nadal was the better player overall during Federer's prime years, which is an absurd statement.
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MSL finals, I am waiting...
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On May 21 2010 16:41 KristianJS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 09:13 Shikyo wrote:On May 21 2010 08 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 21 2010 08 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:36 KristianJS wrote:On May 21 2010 08:30 Shikyo wrote:On May 21 2010 08 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 21 2010 08 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:02 DreaM)XeRO wrote:On May 21 2010 08:00 KristianJS wrote:The point is just that even being consistently beaten by another player in a final no less doesn't necessarily outweigh every other factor once again using the tennis analogy nadal is ahead of federer in H2H 14 - 7 yet Federer is the world ATP ranked number 1 its not all about losing the head to heads its also about how well you play the smaller guys and in Flash's case he's in both the MSL AND OSL training for the number 1 and number 2 zergs in Jaedong and Effort respectively in tennis's case there's different surface types -_- And Federer has more titles than Nadal total, as does Fla.... wait. Why does everyone always miss the point of the Federer-Nadal analogy? The point being made with the analogy is just that it's not enough to say "Well in the last year player X beat player Y in two finals so he must be the better player". If you try to make some argument by narrowing down the picture that much you could end up making a case for just about anything. Uhh Tennis can't be compared simply because Nadal IS the better clay player O_O It's not a perfect analogy, but like I said, it demonstrates that you need to look at the bigger picture when asking yourself who the best player of the season or year or 5 years is. It's meaningless to only look at the head to head record between two players while ignoring everything else, because by that logic you'd have to say Nadal was the better player overall during Federer's prime years, which is an absurd statement.
This is true. Both things must be considered at the same time and is not black and white.
See Savior vs Firebathero. No-one would argue that Savoir was the better player overall etc. but Firebatheros playstyle and mentality was just perfect against Saviors playstyle and mentality and therefore he beat him consistantly. FBH did however not do much other good and Savior got several titles.
Same goes for Nadal vs. Fed. Nadal has the PERFECT playstyle and mentality against federer (which i can point out if anyone wants me to) and has a better record. Meanwhile federer has better statistics overall, so few are argueing which is the better player, but it is still not clear due to their mutual records.
Flash vs JD however, JD has more titles and have them from different "eras" of progaming history (From bisus era to fantasys to Flashes etc.) and he so far also beats flash consistently on the big stages.
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On May 21 2010 17:50 Ota Solgryn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 16:41 KristianJS wrote:On May 21 2010 09:13 Shikyo wrote:On May 21 2010 08 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 21 2010 08 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:36 KristianJS wrote:On May 21 2010 08:30 Shikyo wrote:On May 21 2010 08 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 21 2010 08 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:02 DreaM)XeRO wrote:On May 21 2010 08:00 KristianJS wrote:The point is just that even being consistently beaten by another player in a final no less doesn't necessarily outweigh every other factor once again using the tennis analogy nadal is ahead of federer in H2H 14 - 7 yet Federer is the world ATP ranked number 1 its not all about losing the head to heads its also about how well you play the smaller guys and in Flash's case he's in both the MSL AND OSL training for the number 1 and number 2 zergs in Jaedong and Effort respectively in tennis's case there's different surface types -_- And Federer has more titles than Nadal total, as does Fla.... wait. Why does everyone always miss the point of the Federer-Nadal analogy? The point being made with the analogy is just that it's not enough to say "Well in the last year player X beat player Y in two finals so he must be the better player". If you try to make some argument by narrowing down the picture that much you could end up making a case for just about anything. Uhh Tennis can't be compared simply because Nadal IS the better clay player O_O It's not a perfect analogy, but like I said, it demonstrates that you need to look at the bigger picture when asking yourself who the best player of the season or year or 5 years is. It's meaningless to only look at the head to head record between two players while ignoring everything else, because by that logic you'd have to say Nadal was the better player overall during Federer's prime years, which is an absurd statement. Flash vs JD however, JD has more titles and have them from different "eras" of progaming history (From bisus era to fantasys to Flashes etc.) and he so far also beats flash consistently on the big stages.
I don't think anyone would disagree with the idea that JD has the overall better career results so far (hard to argue against more medals!), but I think the discussion of who had the better season is less straightforward, and unlike what JD suggested, isn't going to be determined by MSL alone
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On May 21 2010 15:28 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 12:45 LG)Sabbath wrote:
flash's current competition: free, kal, baby, great, mvp, midas, sea (current power rank)
jaedong on his prime had to face: bisu, stork, fantasy, best, ggplay, hwasin (10/15/2008 power rank)
I'm curious why you chose 10/15/08 as Jaedong's "prime". He won no leagues in that period, and that was really just the interim between Flash's 2008 dominance and the start of the Six Dragons' period of Protoss dominance. The mid-2009 period where Jaedong won both his OSLs is much more appropriate for what could be considered Jaedong's prime. The only reason I can see you not using those PRs instead is because you think PRs including Canata, Kwanro, and Iris don't work out strongly enough for your argument.
um, yes it does? both canata and iris are better than all of the players on the current power rank, except maybe comparing them to midas, but midas isnt exactly on his prime right now
i picked that power rank because it was more representative... mid-2009 power ranks had bisu + fantasy + leta + stork on almost every single one, with bisu being in all of them, sometimes as #1... bisu is now gone, he used to beat flash left and right, but not jd... anyway jaedong had a far longer period of dominance than flash so his opponents were many more
i'm pretty sure you can pick almost any power rank with jaedong as #1 and it will be tougher than the current one, and thats not even considering that jaedong had to beat flash while he was (is) doing good, while flash cant even beat jd (bo5) when hes slumping
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On May 21 2010 14:10 darktreb wrote:
I can't believe we've reached a point where a player reached four out of the last four finals and people are trying to come up with ways to discredit him.
Here's the list of other people who made as many finals in their ENTIRE CAREER than Flash made in the last two seasons. There's a good chance you'll recognize a lot of them, and for good reason:
Nada
Savior
Oov
Jaedong
Boxer
Yellow*
Bisu
Stork
Reach
Nal_Ra
July
Chojja
* only one to never win, poor guy
Oh and Flash is 51-9 in Proleague, 54-9 if you include the Winners League finals. He's also beaten pretty much every single top player at least once in Proleague. Look at that record again: 54-9!!!!!
Nobody is denying that Jaedong is an incredible player. He has now made 6 finals in his career I believe he's the greatest of all time already. He's also made a final in 4 straight seasons and I believe 6 out of the last 8? Or is it 6 out of the last 7? It's simply incredible what Jaedong has done. But nobody has ever dominated to the degree Flash is dominating right now, for as long as Flash has dominated at this level. Flash fans simply want that to be acknowledged is all.
Jaedong is really great - if he's not already the GOAT he will be shortly. Nobody should try to discredit his incredible career accomplishments, as well as how well he has played lately.
But similarly people should stop downplaying what Flash has done in the past 8 months, even if he loses both finals (which I highly doubt).
Thou speak'st aright, young grasshopper!
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
I'm going to be honest with everyone in this thread, I did not read any of the comments written by Jaedong fans and Flash fans
nor do I even want to read what you fucking retards spewed out your fucking ass you call mouths
But watching this BO5 reminded me once again why Jaedong is so good at BO5s
Jaedong's ability to dissect BO5s and create mind blowing strategies is so surreal at times and once again he proved why he is the Perfect Zerg of our age
I watched the whole series (which was roughly like 40 minutes with commercial breaks lol) and I've never been more impressed with JD ever than before.
Fuck the power outage, terran imba and etc retarded discussions you new posters, respected, veterans and even staff members are having in this thread
We're lucky to have such epic MUs in years, and I wish you all put your fanboism aside for once and be glad we can watch some epic starcraft.
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sure, if JD wins he can be called the best. but this time around, flash will win
i believe
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On May 21 2010 04:05 tree.hugger wrote:The Department of Team Liquid Security has released it's monthly fanboy activity report. Team WatchHite SPARKYZ Fans: Missing, presumed extinct.
im a hite fan till the end
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On May 21 2010 12:08 adelarge wrote:
This Jaedong fanboyism is getting out of hand. I really want to like him and cheer for good close games in MSL, but some people are making it extremely hard. Lets take a look at some facts, shall we?
Fact 1: Flash and JD are 4:3 in recent history (by recent I mean this and last season OSL/MSL + adequate SPL period, because if you wanna include previous MSL, you sure as hell cannot dodge last OSL). Yeah, that's right, Flash has more wins over JD than he has loses. Maybe somebody wants to pretend they only played in MSL and ignore the rest, but it doesn't work that way. JD got his ass whooped when they met in OSL and he lost again right after the MSL finals in ace match in winners league.
Fact 2: Flash has recenty broken almost every imaginable record. Highest Kespa rank ever, highest Elo ever BY FAR, he is the first progamer ever who had two MUs over 2300. Heck, he had EVERY MU over 2300. He had TvP higher than Jaedong ZvP! (You could argue that JD didn't play any protoss recently...well, maybe if he didn't get kicked out of OSL so soon, he could, like Flash or Effort did).
Fact 3: Flash is the first player ever who managed to reach double consecutive finals. Lets stop for a moment and think about it. Never ever in the whole history of BW there was a player who achieved that. Not Boxer, not iloveoov, not Nada, not Savior and definitely not Jaedong.
Fact 4: Flash is the best player in proleague. Yeah you are reading it right, not only he got to double consecutive finals, he at the same time scored most wins in PL. He even won the Winners league playoff for KT, something Jaedong failed to do when he had the chance last year (although he was really close).
And you are going to throw everything out of the window and say JD>Flash because of two BO5? Two BO5 which could together be played easily under 8 hours? Two BO5 from which one is already one of the most controversial and fucked up finals ever? Really? I mean...really?
Bo5 is simply the most accurate way we have to determine who is the best player. It's absolutely ridiculous that people like yourself discredit bo5 wins like they're nothing, when in reality they mean far more than anything else. By the way, Jaedong is 3-0 in bo5 matches between them, not 2-0. I can't believe you think you can downplay that and yet mention 'Oh Flash is ahead 4-3 in 'recent history'.' This is cherry picking stats at best.
Other points: Yawn ELO. Double finals, yes it's impressive (but so is winning a finals the last 3 seasons and going for 4 this one - in fact jaedong has been in a finals 7 of the last 8 seasons). Proleague? Using your love of 'recent history', we can note that Jaedong has more wins in this round, and is 4-0 in ace matches to Flash's 2-2. Also, WL vs PL finals? =P
And if you really want to play the this card, be prepared to fight against Jaedong's other accomplishments, such as his WCG Korea / international victories.
On May 21 2010 14:10 darktreb wrote:
I can't believe we've reached a point where a player reached four out of the last four finals and people are trying to come up with ways to discredit him.
Irony at it's finest. This is a thread about Jaedong's MSL semis winner's interview. It's been hijacked into a Flash vs Jaedong fan war, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it wasn't the fault of the Jaedong fans commenting on the interview itself. If anything, we should be shocked at the audacity of those who will come in to a thread like this and attempt to discredit Jaedong.
In short, let's start the damage control after the finals, not before.
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On May 22 2010 00:11 MrHoon wrote:
I'm going to be honest with everyone in this thread, I did not read any of the comments written by Jaedong fans and Flash fans
nor do I even want to read what you fucking retards spewed out your fucking ass you call mouths
But watching this BO5 reminded me once again why Jaedong is so good at BO5s
Jaedong's ability to dissect BO5s and create mind blowing strategies is so surreal at times and once again he proved why he is the Perfect Zerg of our age
I watched the whole series (which was roughly like 40 minutes with commercial breaks lol) and I've never been more impressed with JD ever than before.
Fuck the power outage, terran imba and etc retarded discussions you new posters, respected, veterans and even staff members are having in this thread
We're lucky to have such epic MUs in years, and I wish you all put your fanboism aside for once and be glad we can watch some epic starcraft.
The WORD!
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I really don't get the "put your fanboyism besides and just enjoy the game". One of the best part of EVERY sport are the emotions. The joy and even the sadness. Hell, I love watching StarCraft, but even if the games of sparkyz vs woongjin (no offense) are superb, they can't even come close to a proleague ace match of OZ. The emotions is such a big part (for me) to enjoy a sportevent. The game of lomo vs best in the proleague finals for example is one of the games in starcraft I remember the most. Not because it was the best game ever (it was kinda good tho) but because of the emotions.
And yea, the flash as well as the jaedong fanboys and all the discussion of who's the best or if the power outage actually decided the game may be a bit too much, but still, the discussion / trash talk from both sides is part of it and it is needed.
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Flash has to prepare for 2 big TvZ sets coming up, I wonder whether he'll be able to come up with enough inovations to clean both...
I expect he'll just macro machine his way through effort though, so my hope is with Jaedong to take him down a few pegs...
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On May 22 2010 02:30 QibingZero wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 12:08 adelarge wrote:
This Jaedong fanboyism is getting out of hand. I really want to like him and cheer for good close games in MSL, but some people are making it extremely hard. Lets take a look at some facts, shall we?
Fact 1: Flash and JD are 4:3 in recent history (by recent I mean this and last season OSL/MSL + adequate SPL period, because if you wanna include previous MSL, you sure as hell cannot dodge last OSL). Yeah, that's right, Flash has more wins over JD than he has loses. Maybe somebody wants to pretend they only played in MSL and ignore the rest, but it doesn't work that way. JD got his ass whooped when they met in OSL and he lost again right after the MSL finals in ace match in winners league.
Fact 2: Flash has recenty broken almost every imaginable record. Highest Kespa rank ever, highest Elo ever BY FAR, he is the first progamer ever who had two MUs over 2300. Heck, he had EVERY MU over 2300. He had TvP higher than Jaedong ZvP! (You could argue that JD didn't play any protoss recently...well, maybe if he didn't get kicked out of OSL so soon, he could, like Flash or Effort did).
Fact 3: Flash is the first player ever who managed to reach double consecutive finals. Lets stop for a moment and think about it. Never ever in the whole history of BW there was a player who achieved that. Not Boxer, not iloveoov, not Nada, not Savior and definitely not Jaedong.
Fact 4: Flash is the best player in proleague. Yeah you are reading it right, not only he got to double consecutive finals, he at the same time scored most wins in PL. He even won the Winners league playoff for KT, something Jaedong failed to do when he had the chance last year (although he was really close).
And you are going to throw everything out of the window and say JD>Flash because of two BO5? Two BO5 which could together be played easily under 8 hours? Two BO5 from which one is already one of the most controversial and fucked up finals ever? Really? I mean...really? Bo5 is simply the most accurate way we have to determine who is the best player. It's absolutely ridiculous that people like yourself discredit bo5 wins like they're nothing, when in reality they mean far more than anything else. By the way, Jaedong is 3-0 in bo5 matches between them, not 2-0. I can't believe you think you can downplay that and yet mention 'Oh Flash is ahead 4-3 in 'recent history'.' This is cherry picking stats at best. Other points: Yawn ELO. Double finals, yes it's impressive (but so is winning a finals the last 3 seasons and going for 4 this one - in fact jaedong has been in a finals 7 of the last 8 seasons). Proleague? Using your love of 'recent history', we can note that Jaedong has more wins in this round, and is 4-0 in ace matches to Flash's 2-2. Also, WL vs PL finals? =P And if you really want to play the this card, be prepared to fight against Jaedong's other accomplishments, such as his WCG Korea / international victories.
First of all, nobody ever discredited importance of BO5. But it seems that some people thinks it's more important factor than everything else combined. Which is bullshit. The game is called Starcraft and not Who's the best in BO5 for a reason, get it through your head already people.
I choosed the recent history as a reaction to others who were so eager to include JD win in last MSL. Maybe you would like to pretend nothing else happened, but it did. And A LOT. You wanna go for a shorter time interval? What about this season?
I'm well aware about their first BO5 meeting...you really believe that has some importance now? I also didn't mention how Flash won two BO3 right after, kicking JD from OSL and GOM.
I also don't know what's your problem with my point about the WL and PL finals. Do you want to elaborate? I though the fact that KTFlash won it and JaedongOz wasn't even in playoffs is well known already.
For the last time, so nobody would hopefully miss it - JD is far more accomplished player and he was definitely better than Flash in the past, nobody is denying that. But last couple of months Flash outplayed him in everything except BO5 (yet). It's enough to call him better player, BO5 results regardless.
It seems that JDs fans are just kicking around trying to dismiss everythig Flash did to keep their beloved player at the top.
And this is not damage control, more like reactions from fan who has enough of the biased nonsence. I've been reading TL for like three years and I've never felt like I should defend player like I should defend Flash now...and I've been his fan since his OSL/GOM run. He simply didn't have the skills/results to compete with JD in the past and I acknowledged that. But know he has and the fact that so many people are stupidly trying to downplay everything he did is something I can't ignore.
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On May 22 2010 05:52 adelarge wrote:
It seems that JDs fans are just kicking around trying to dismiss everythig Flash did to keep their beloved player at the top.
+ Show Spoiler [osl spoiler] +in before flash fans nerdrage 
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OSL spoiler:
+ Show Spoiler +Haha, "I can't leave Flash alone to win both titles"....
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On May 22 2010 22:21 LunarC wrote:OSL spoiler: + Show Spoiler +Haha, "I can't leave Flash alone to win both titles"....
+ Show Spoiler +
I'm actually afraid that Flash will be super angry and destroy Jaedong...Oh wait, isn't jaedong scarier when he is angry? Well, he is pretty damn angry in his games lately, so gogo DONG
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On May 22 2010 22:31 Art.FeeL wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
I'm actually afraid that Flash will be super angry and destroy Jaedong...Oh wait, isn't jaedong scarier when he is angry? Well, he is pretty damn angry in his games lately, so gogo DONG
+ Show Spoiler +in the worst case scenario flash will play his best, and jaedong has a winning record against that I BELIEVE! man im more hyped now than i would be if flash had won the osl, this is gonna be awesome, cant wait
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On May 22 2010 22:19 LG)Sabbath wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2010 05:52 adelarge wrote:
It seems that JDs fans are just kicking around trying to dismiss everythig Flash did to keep their beloved player at the top.
+ Show Spoiler [osl spoiler] +in before flash fans nerdrage
+ Show Spoiler +Haha, you have no idea what is to be Flash fan for so long. He was getting kicked out of leagues for almost two years, even if he had the potential to win them...and I've been his fan through all of this. If I was prone to nerdraging, I would probably stop following progaming long time ago. Today, I'm just sad, but such thing is a part of every sport. But there are gonna be another finals, Flash is still fighting!
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EPT
