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Today was an interesting day for me...
One of my friends buddies considers himself a great gamer. He plays lots of different games (MMORPG games, FPS games, Console games) So today, I go up to him and ask him if he's ever played StarCraft...
I knew what the answer would be, but I thought I'd ask anyway. He laughed and said "No... Didn't blizzard make that? I can't believe they would make something with such bad graphics." For about 30 minutes of one-sided-arguing I felt like I was talking to a 9 year old, and I was quite disappointed in myself for bothering with someone so stupid.
I evantually got tired of trying to explain why and how it's such a deep game, and went into the library to play chess with my friend. It makes me sad to see that people here look only at graphics and seem to frown upon actually using their mind and skill to play.
Games like WoW, Halo and CounterStrike are really common here in America. I really hate them to be honest. I used to play counter-strike ALOT, until I got bored with it. I played WoW a little bit less than that, and got bored of it too easily. To me, They are the kind of games that any random chobo can pick up and be 'professional' at in a months time.
Alot of games have come out in the past 5 years, but none of them are close to being good. I've kind of lost faith in the Gaming Industry, so much that I'm probably not even going to pursue video game designing/programming like I wanted to, and go into actual Computer Programming like I originally intended.
I'm sure lots of people feel like me, that people don't respect the games and gamers who play for the competition and the depth of gameplay, rather than crappy graphics or "competitive" games that require little skill to be good at.
Anyway, If anyone has had a similar situation like this, I'd like to hear about it.It's so sad how ignorant some people can be, and how closed-minded they are to actually skilled gamers.
I'd also like to know if anyone disagrees with me, or think I'M the ignorant guy here.
/end rant
 
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'Tis why games like Fantasy Earth Zero are a longshot to get ported to the US 
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Before I came to Teamliquid, I was just "Yeah, Starcraft? That was a pretty good game.". It's not that easy for people to understand how deep the game is.
I don't really understand why he says "why would they make something with such horrible graphics"... This game was made like ten years ago, right?
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You are definitely not alone bud. I haven't bought a game in ages simply because they are no decent ones being made. Same thing is happening with Hollywood; the investors/producers are just not interested in making art anymore. It's all about the glorious dollar. And the guy you were having the argument with is a perfect example of the people they are targeting.
I don't know if society is getting stupid or if people are just too easily amused.
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Calgary25993 Posts
I don't have much to add, but I want to say this:
Starcraft players are some of the most closed-minded gamers on the planet. The majority of people are looking for something fun to pass the time, not a second job with no benefits. Starcraft players dismiss nearly every other genre. Have you ever noticed that WoW and WC3 players at live events can freely enjoy Starcraft and find it really interesting to watch? And conversely, when Starcraft players watch the other games, all they do is criticize them? This could mean that Starcraft is somehow an objectively better game, or, more likely, Starcraft players suffer a little too much from elitism.
Starcraft has shitty graphics. There is no denying this. They are fucking terrible by today's standards. Graphics are a huge part of a game. Maybe you like the graphics because they are familiar, but that doesn't make them objectively good. Why is someone who perceives something as fun because of nice graphics any different than someone who bases it on the gameplay or multiplayer experience?
Two men discuss their lives. One dates women mostly based on their personality. The other, mostly on looks. You can argue that former will have a deeper connection with his partners, and will learn almost everything about her. The latter may have a weaker connection, but will probably get bored and move onto something else. Yet they are both happy. Is one person objectively better in this case? Is one person "doing it right"? Does one person deserve to be looked down on?
Your stupid sentence, Alot of games have come out in the past 5 years, but none of them are close to being good. proves my point. It is this baseless brush-stroking that upsets me.
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On September 23 2009 04:47 Chill wrote:I don't have much to add, but I want to say this: Starcraft players are some of the most closed-minded gamers on the planet. The majority of people are looking for something fun to pass the time, not a second job with no benefits. Starcraft players dismiss nearly every other genre. Have you ever noticed that WoW and WC3 players at live events can freely enjoy Starcraft and find it really interesting to watch? And conversely, when Starcraft players watch the other games, all they do is criticize them? This could mean that Starcraft is somehow an objectively better game, or, more likely, Starcraft players suffer a little too much from elitism. Starcraft has shitty graphics. There is no denying this. They are fucking terrible by today's standards. Graphics are a huge part of a game. Maybe you like the graphics because they are familiar, but that doesn't make them objectively good. Why is someone who perceives something as fun because of nice graphics any different than someone who bases it on the gameplay or multiplayer experience? Two men discuss their lives. One dates women mostly based on their personality. The other, mostly on looks. You can argue that former will have a deeper connection with his partners, and will learn almost everything about her. The latter may have a weaker connection, but will probably get bored and move onto something else. Yet they are both happy. Is one person objectively better in this case? Is one person "doing it right"? Does one person deserve to be looked down on? Your stupid sentence, Show nested quote +Alot of games have come out in the past 5 years, but none of them are close to being good. proves my point. It is this baseless brush-stroking that upsets me.
hi5 broski
Graphics are one part of the formula of a good game holmes.
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On September 23 2009 04:47 Chill wrote:Your stupid sentence, Show nested quote +Alot of games have come out in the past 5 years, but none of them are close to being good. proves my point. It is this baseless brush-stroking that upsets me.
His sentence was completely subjective and stating his opinion. I'm sure a lot of people would agree that many of the games that have come out recently aren't that good.
Actually, the entire blog post was his opinion, and a rant at that. I wouldn't take it too seriously as to pass it off as righteous indignation. We can all understand when someone doesn't appreciate the same things we do; that's life.
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I agree. People play games to have fun and pass time, I'm alright with that. It's annoying however when people belive they play a game that require lots of skill for example. When its in reality is a shitty noob game in every aspect. I was the best player in the world for a while at BFME2. Let me tell you it was fun when goofing around in the beginning, but as soon as I tried to get good I noticed it has no depth at all. Same with every RTS out there except WC3.
Blizzard is the best gaming company ever!
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Starcraft players are some of the most closed-minded gamers on the planet. The majority of people are looking for something fun to pass the time, not a second job with no benefits. Starcraft players dismiss nearly every other genre. Have you ever noticed that WoW and WC3 players at live events can freely enjoy Starcraft and find it really interesting to watch? And conversely, when Starcraft players watch the other games, all they do is criticize them? This could mean that Starcraft is somehow an objectively better game, or, more likely, Starcraft players suffer a little too much from elitism.
I've never actually thought of it this way. I always knew that we were elitists, but thanks for bringing this up.
Your stupid sentence, Show nested quote +Alot of games have come out in the past 5 years, but none of them are close to being good. proves my point. It is this baseless brush-stroking that upsets me.
I understand what you are saying... but my basis for that quote is merely from experience, nothing more really. I don't understand how you can call something that is a reasonable truth stupidity.
I don't really understand why he says "why would they make something with such horrible graphics"... This game was made like ten years ago, right?
He didn't know it was made back then... that's the really sad part.
On September 23 2009 04:43 GunSlinger wrote:
You are definitely not alone bud. I haven't bought a game in ages simply because they are no decent ones being made. Same thing is happening with Hollywood; the investors/producers are just not interested in making art anymore. It's all about the glorious dollar. And the guy you were having the argument with is a perfect example of the people they are targeting.
I don't know if society is getting stupid or if people are just too easily amused.
Yeah, This is why I'm no longer interested in pursuing Game Design. I don't want to be a part of this process. People are too easily amused by graphics and loud explosions these days.
hi5 broski
Graphics are one part of the formula of a good game holmes.
I agree graphics to some extent increase the game overall, but for extremely competitive types of games, they just get in the way.
On September 23 2009 05:05 DarkShadowz wrote:
I agree. People play games to have fun and pass time, I'm alright with that. It's annoying however when people belive they play a game that require lots of skill for example. When its in reality is a shitty noob game in every aspect. I was the best player in the world for a while at BFME2. Let me tell you it was fun when goofing around in the beginning, but as soon as I tried to get good I noticed it has no depth at all. Same with every RTS out there except WC3.
I can respect the people who play games for fun, casually. But I can't even dream of respecting the people like you mentioned, who don't seem to understand something of such intricacy.
Viva Blizzard! They are the one company who actually about the Game not the money... and I hope that doesn't change in the coming years..
Thanks for all your replies, I'm interested in hearing more!
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Calgary25993 Posts
On September 23 2009 05:02 Chromyne wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2009 04:47 Chill wrote:Your stupid sentence, Alot of games have come out in the past 5 years, but none of them are close to being good. proves my point. It is this baseless brush-stroking that upsets me. His sentence was completely subjective and stating his opinion. I'm sure a lot of people would agree that many of the games that have come out recently aren't that good. Actually, the entire blog post was his opinion, and a rant at that. I wouldn't take it too seriously as to pass it off as righteous indignation. We can all understand when someone doesn't appreciate the same things we do; that's life.
"None of them are close to being good" isn't a subjective statement.
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Calgary25993 Posts
On September 23 2009 05:06 TwilightStar wrote:Show nested quote +Your stupid sentence, Alot of games have come out in the past 5 years, but none of them are close to being good. proves my point. It is this baseless brush-stroking that upsets me. I understand what you are saying... but my basis for that quote is from experience, nothing more really. Don't understand how you can call something that is a reasonable truth stupidity.
Because, if you survey the general population, the past 5 years have yielded some fantastic games. That's not a reasonable truth, that's branding your opinion as fact.
To add a little subjective weight against your claim: http://www.gamespot.com/reviews.html?type=reviews&platform=5&mode=all&sort=score&dlx_type=all&sortdir=asc&official=all
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i disagree with starcraft's graphics being bad, they are perfectly functional(even moreso functional compared to other games where you can't even see what the hell is going on, which although SC2 graphics are good some people still have this problem) and just because they are outdated doesn't take away anything from the game
what does take away from the game though is the programming, the AI features are horrible 
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Actually, that 'horrible' Starcraft graphics is pretty functional if not essential part of the whole game. After some practise, you can figure out what's going on within a second, because units/animations/sprites are not messing up your strategic view. This is one of the reasons I prefer SC over Warcraft or Diablo or anything else: in those games everything is glowing, exploding, blinking and you never know what really happens. From graphical standpoint, Starcraft is like chess: you have information before your eyes, the only thing is to use it efficently (fog of war being the only exception).
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On September 23 2009 05:08 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2009 05:02 Chromyne wrote:On September 23 2009 04:47 Chill wrote:Your stupid sentence, Alot of games have come out in the past 5 years, but none of them are close to being good. proves my point. It is this baseless brush-stroking that upsets me. His sentence was completely subjective and stating his opinion. I'm sure a lot of people would agree that many of the games that have come out recently aren't that good. Actually, the entire blog post was his opinion, and a rant at that. I wouldn't take it too seriously as to pass it off as righteous indignation. We can all understand when someone doesn't appreciate the same things we do; that's life. "None of them are close to being good" isn't a subjective statement.
Maybe it's just me, but I can't read that statement in this context and NOT take it as an opinion. Even if he intended to pass objective judgement on video games, I wouldn't be able to take it as such when I read it.
I guess we just respond to it differently
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I think you forgot to tell him its an 11 year old game.
Just so you know, WoW, CS, and Halo (halo 1 i mean), all have bad graphics, yet u used them as examples that US only play games with top notch graphics.
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Although I don't buy a lot of games, I have friends that do and I play their console and computer games with them. They're fun.
Whenever I want to get the idea across that StarCraft isn't just any other game, I point to the professional scene in South Korea and talk about how successful it is. Once I got someone trying to tell my Halo's professional scene in the USA is better. I loled and then continued watching the OSL game on the TV.
Why get all pissed off an angry about what games a person likes? Why shut yourself off from trying to enjoy any other game but StarCraft? Trying to explain to someone how deep and amazing and strategically superior in every way StarCraft is just makes you look like a prat. I mean, it definitely is a great game, but you aren't doing it any justice when the person you're talking to has no idea what you're talking about (and your understanding of the game is probably pretty low as well).
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United States1300 Posts
If there's anything worse than ignorant modern gamers, it's jaded gamers who can't leave the past behind.
There are tons of great games out there, I am a fan of every genre and I love playing other strategy games besides Starcraft.
Bashing games because they are popular is just plain dumb. WoW is a great game whether it was designed for you or not, and Halo is easily the most well-made FPS on a console.
Sure, you'll meet people who are also close minded and who only play CoD and Gears of War, and who say Halo invented FPS -- but those people will always exist.
It's frustrating, but so is living in the past. There are some brilliant titles in all genres that have come out recently that are masterpieces IMO.
although admittedly -- developer are trying to appeal to casuals and in turn make game less deep, and more enjoyable for casual play.
look at WoW, look at CoD, look at GeOW -- popular because of accessibility. hell, look at the Wii.
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I've been a gamer all my life. In school all I would think about is getting hope and gaming. Though even before I learned about starcraft I hated about how fast you can beat a game and what it takes to play multi-player. If you can get Xbox Live or what ever for your console then console gaming is as good as starcraft to me if you have someone to play with. Though I do hate how someone could think starcraft's graphics suck. It might just be that I love the game that much but I find the graphics amazing. Though to be a hardcore console gamer today is just absolutely outrageous cost-wise.
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Well I like starcraft (enough to get good enough to have a shot at beating anyone)
but I never dismissed other games. in fact I loved playing CS at around the same time. and then later I got into dota while still playing sc.
however I have seen what chill is talking about in some other players
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United States1300 Posts
also, and i can't leave this alone -- CS is has an extremely deep learning curve and there is a reason it is still bigger than casual games like Halo and CoD in terms of competitive play.
honestly, CS IMO is the SC of FPS.
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EPT
