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For all my life I have had a passion for playing the piano. However, my asian parents aren't the stereotypical kind that push you really hard - instead, I was praised because I was good, and indeed I was. I was the best around in elementary school, even though I practiced significantly less than others. But now I'm quite behind many, or at least, I don't stand out at all. Anyways, I have only really realized that having a musical career isn't impossible, especially if it's not performance (SOMEONE has to fulfill the job after all).
I'm really lost on what I want to do in life because in the USA you don't get much guidance on seeing what the jobs are actually like. At least not until college where you get internships or something.
I do, however, have a passion for playing piano. Ideally a music career in performance (or at least focused on performance, composition and teaching are nice too) would be great. After all if you're truly successful as a performer you can travel around a lot, and that sounds so exciting to me. From the help of many others including of TL I have decided to pick passion over money. Happiness over monetary value. I'm a Christian and believe in the after-life but anyways you only have one life, so WHY would you be AFRAID of not striving towards your dream?
So my plan is this, and I would love some advice since I obviously have not been in college.
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I'll major in both musical performance and business (finance, not administration, since if you want to start your own business you don't need a degree for that though it could help). I've been told that business is a nice compliment to a musical career since you can manage yourself, etc.
I'll strive towards doing musical performance, but til I can go "full-time", I will obviously need a back-up plan. I do not think I want to go "all-in" and risk having to work at McDonald's (unless I do a good job finding teaching jobs in studios or at student's homes, etc.) So, this is where the business idea comes from.
From my understanding, (and this depends on the college), if you do a dual degree, it is more work, but not necessarily a lot more (again, depends on college). However I have been told that the workloads for music performance majors and even music education majors are both very heavy because of all the practice you need. I'm afraid that if I do a dual-degree in music, that I will have no life in college, no time to play SC2 (which is another possible thing I will strive for; I am already quite good and play significantly less compared to many other Masters players, and if I can get really good without even going all-in, I might consider it), no time to enjoy hanging out with friends, but at the same time I think it will be worth it if I can eventually accomplish my dream.
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Less important information but it would be great if you consider all my thoughts will follow <3
One problem is that not all colleges have "schools" of music, AKA you have to audition and it is a hardcore music program. Some schools just have liberal arts degrees in music, where it is about 50% music program, but some schools like Emory seemingly allow you to both get a business major and a music major in 2 years each. Obviously though the music education is not as great, and people in the music industry probably won't think a BA degree in music is as good as a BM degree. However, at the same time, it seems these schools will have less workloads, so I am wondering if it is worth it to go for such a program rather than a rigorous(?) 4-5 year dual-degree program?
Another option I'm considering is to have music education as a fall back instead. That is, teaching in schools or even in studios, etc. I can double major in both music education and performance; the workload should not be as big as a dual-degree since many classes will overlap. I like to manage things though I'm not quite social nor a good speaker, so I would like the job but have to adapt to it. Teachers usually don't get paid much but in my city they get paid abut 60k and band teachers usually get a little more for extracurricular groups. In addition to the benefits of this dual major plan, I can do performance on the side since I have a strong music education. My own band teacher is what gave me this revelation; during Easter, he performed at 3 events including something as simple as playing in a church for Sunday service. He made about $700 (or was it 1000?) he said. I'm not sure if I would love 100% performance, but being competitive, working towards something, improving (just like in SC2) is something that I think is a big part of me. And even if I don't like 100% performance, I can, like most other non-top musicians do, do other jobs; private teaching, etc.
And I know some of you may discourage me from doing music performance; "only the best of the best have a chance of living a low class life on just performance". But after talking to the workers and my teacher at my piano lessons place, I have seen the music industry in a different way. My teacher simply said that to be a performer, you had to "practice 6 hours a day... and be lucky". He didn't stress anything beyond that. Since I love piano I could practice even more than that, if I need to catch up.
My teacher works as a law/business person, and teaches as a side job; he is actually only just finishing a major (he's 40-45?) in Piano Pedagogy, AKA teaching. So it seems the world is not so cruel to require degrees for everything; there is a social, people aspect as well. If they like you, you'll get the job. Anyway another possible thing I could do is major in business only, and minor in music, and practice in my free time. If I ever want to I could go back and get a performance major (but I really don't understand how it would work if you go back to college; you would have to pay the full tuition and all that and take all the math/english/science/history classes? or no?). I could also simply, like my teacher, find music jobs without a degree. If I ever get good enough (i could take piano lessons from a professor or someone good) I could possibly switch into focusing on performance.
Btw is it really that important to go into graduate? Some colleges like University of Michigan give a nice undergrad Business degree so that you can just go work unlike other places where you have to wait for grad school. Also how important is a masters music degree vs bachelor? It just depends on if you're good enough and if you find the right people to get a job right?
One last question: I do not believe that jobs such as finance/business allow part-time right? So if I were to work with such a job, it would not be easy to "transition" into music. However if I can, for example, work a 20 hours a week in my "fall-back", do some side jobs like private teaching, and also performing places or even simpler things like providing accompaniments to other solos, I will feel relieved about my dual-degree plan.
Also, if none of this works out, at the worst, as a finance person, I can work in an industry I am interested in right? I could even go to Korea or Japan and work for GomTV or something, for example ^^ So even if I can't do my ideal profession, I can at least work for things I love, and therefore find meaning in life.
I would GREATLY APPRECIATE any kind of advice on this. It will mean a lot to me. Some colleges' applications are due in a few days and I only just found out enough about the world to think up the dual-degree plan. So if I wanted to apply to more colleges to fit my new plan (vs my old single Major in business) now is the time. If there's any direct favors you would like I will try my best. Coaching you to Diamond or to low masters probably works best if that's what you want <3
 
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Have you considered USC? It has pretty good schools for both music and business and admission rates aren't half bad.
Music admission rates probably lower than general admission rates of course, and even harder because you're asian, as you know.
A quick search leads me to http://www.usc.edu/schools/music/programs/industry/ which may be what you're looking for. I suppose you're gonna want to practice more I'd imagine for the admission recital so you can seal the deal on the spot  .
Outside of that option (such as for your umich thinger)
I would personally go for double major but don't know about the workload for music - business I imagine is a joke, there are plenty of business majors who idle all day :s but if you can't pull a double major, I would major in business minor in performance if that is an option since minoring in business... Meh.
You don't go straight from undergrad university into an MBA, so UMich has the right idea there.
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On November 29 2011 09:17 Ktk wrote:Have you considered USC? It has pretty good schools for both music and business and admission rates aren't half bad. Music admission rates probably lower than general admission rates of course, and even harder because you're asian, as you know. A quick search leads me to http://www.usc.edu/schools/music/programs/industry/ which may be what you're looking for. I suppose you're gonna want to practice more I'd imagine for the admission recital so you can seal the deal on the spot . Outside of that option (such as for your umich thinger) I would personally go for double major but don't know about the workload for music - business I imagine is a joke, there are plenty of business majors who idle all day :s but if you can't pull a double major, I would major in business minor in performance if that is an option since minoring in business... Meh. You don't go straight from undergrad university into an MBA, so UMich has the right idea there.
Thank you so much <3 this will help me a lot!!! I was also wondering about the minors.
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I know a few people who pursued the music and performing route. The ones who aren't waiting tables or scraping by were smart enough to get music teaching to go along with performance.
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On November 29 2011 09:31 Hawk wrote:
I know a few people who pursued the music and performing route. The ones who aren't waiting tables or scraping by were smart enough to get music teaching to go along with performance.
Thank you
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On November 29 2011 09:18 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2011 09:17 Ktk wrote:Have you considered USC? It has pretty good schools for both music and business and admission rates aren't half bad. Music admission rates probably lower than general admission rates of course, and even harder because you're asian, as you know. A quick search leads me to http://www.usc.edu/schools/music/programs/industry/ which may be what you're looking for. I suppose you're gonna want to practice more I'd imagine for the admission recital so you can seal the deal on the spot . Outside of that option (such as for your umich thinger) I would personally go for double major but don't know about the workload for music - business I imagine is a joke, there are plenty of business majors who idle all day :s but if you can't pull a double major, I would major in business minor in performance if that is an option since minoring in business... Meh. You don't go straight from undergrad university into an MBA, so UMich has the right idea there. Thank you so much <3 this will help me a lot!!! I was also wondering about the minors.
My cousin dual majored music and EE at USC and now is a VP for JBL. He knows people that went business music though, would you like it if I tried to get their info?
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On November 29 2011 09:38 Froadac wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2011 09:18 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 29 2011 09:17 Ktk wrote:Have you considered USC? It has pretty good schools for both music and business and admission rates aren't half bad. Music admission rates probably lower than general admission rates of course, and even harder because you're asian, as you know. A quick search leads me to http://www.usc.edu/schools/music/programs/industry/ which may be what you're looking for. I suppose you're gonna want to practice more I'd imagine for the admission recital so you can seal the deal on the spot . Outside of that option (such as for your umich thinger) I would personally go for double major but don't know about the workload for music - business I imagine is a joke, there are plenty of business majors who idle all day :s but if you can't pull a double major, I would major in business minor in performance if that is an option since minoring in business... Meh. You don't go straight from undergrad university into an MBA, so UMich has the right idea there. Thank you so much <3 this will help me a lot!!! I was also wondering about the minors. My cousin dual majored music and EE at USC and now is a VP for JBL. He knows people that went business music though, would you like it if I tried to get their info?
That would be SO great. Only if it won't take you too much trouble though, of course! That is interesting how it turned out for your cousin
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Coach meh >.>
But on topic I'll hit him up. Real app deadline for usc is December 1 tho >.> So expensive w/o scholarship.
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On November 29 2011 10:08 Froadac wrote:
Coach meh >.>
But on topic I'll hit him up. Real app deadline for usc is December 1 tho >.> So expensive w/o scholarship.
I checked out USC i probably won't be going there. It seems they want all this audition tape stuff by december 1 lol, and anyways, it's too expensive I think. I want to live without too much of a loan/debt. I'm not lucky enough to have rich parents to pay off too much.
Ok sure I'll coach you what league are you in, what race, what server, etc.? add me on skype Yoshi_Kirishima and get some replays and we can look over them then find some opponents and i'll watch you play and point out things you may not be aware of and/or correct decisions etc.
$40-50k a year is definitely too much.
$30k a year is still expensive but acceptable if it's actually good and fitting (if i can get in lol)
$20k is very desirable!
I might not have emphasized it but anyways if I did it is lost in a sea of text.
I don't want to go "all-in" like to those Conservatories where it's really expensive. I wouldn't pass the auditions anyway I don't think xD (regrets already). Anyways I don't want to have a huge debt especially if music is all I have lol, and I don't even have a music education degree (to teach at a school instead of just studios). Actually thing is idk if I want to go all-in but I want to play it... safer? Anyways how would I pay off a $100-200k debt with a low class life as a musician? xD I want to live free, living on my passion, and not have to worry about making a shit ton of money. TBH I'd prefer a smaller house it's much easier to keep clean, especially if I'm living by myself. I'm a frugal person lol.
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Ah, ok. I"ll see if he knows anything about it.
College apps so stressful.... and I get your drift on $. I might end up going to full ride national merit school b/c it's free XD
I'll pm you coaching stoof.
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On November 29 2011 10:14 Froadac wrote:
Ah, ok. I"ll see if he knows anything about it.
College apps so stressful.... and I get your drift on $. I might end up going to full ride national merit school b/c it's free XD
I'll pm you coaching stoof.
Wow that is great, hope you get it ^^
Yeah pretty stressful lol but i actually don't spend as much time on essays as I probably should T_T. Curse procrastination. Though I'm an AP English student so i hope my writing isn't terribad.
Oh and for USC it says that the BS (instead of BM) has music finance, but i'm not sure if that can be applied to other things outside of music, so that's another reason why I say no. Though I would love to live in cali, much more asians :D
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I have been a full time musician since the age of 16, however I wouldn't recommend taking the route I did lol. I always knew I wanted to be a singer/songwriter and so when I left school I just went out and did it. I was in a band, we were pretty good and we just started gigging locally in pubs and stuff.
Eventually we got good enough to headline proper music venues but by that time 3 out of the 4 of us were in Uni (the odd one out being me lol). I continued playing gigs with other bands and solo, I worked hard and just kept plugging away. I had no idea what I was doing for the first 5 years, I literally learned the business side of the industry by being out there getting screwed over and learning from my mistakes.
As you are a Pianist and looking to take your education further, I assume you are an aspiring concert player. That is a road down which I wish you the best of luck, I know a few people from my travels who are concert players and they all worked very very hard to get there and were very lucky. Half the battle is being willing you try.
The best thing I can give you is a line from a song I wrote about following your dreams..... this is the motto I lived by for many years.
If you reach for the stars and only make it to the moon, you've still gone further than anyone else before you.
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Ah, yes USC is expensive but if you got PSAT/NMSQT semi-finalist you get half tuition scholarship automatically but I suppose that is something already past.
Oberlin, URochester/Eastman, Juilliard(lolol) others to look out for. oh no conservatories then ignore?
I'd suggest looking at music perf colleges and then from those narrowing those down by which fit you best, price-education-location wise. Price-wise, you could expand more depending on what kind of f-aid you'll get (though I'm assuming middle-class minimal ridiculous college support of course, blergh.)
Lower-tier schools (I hate that phrase) will give you scholarships for good grades, Extracurriculars, etc. so you could relax a litttttttttle bit on money issues especially if you apply in-state public; if you live in Michigan I'd wholeheartedly recommend UMich, it's a very good school ._. (Oregon public college system, not so much)
Since you want to live freely without debt, I'll just say that "prestigious school" degrees are simply not worth doing, if you're good at music you'll get picked up regardless of your degree, especially if you have intentions in performance (less so in teaching)
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I'm a freshman at Columbia University that's double majoring in music composition/applied math and I'm not much of a performer but I'm fairly good at music theory and analysis. Here, you can just take classes and get the major. It's entirely academic and doesn't require any ability in performance. Lessons are available in the sense that everyone auditions and the best people get lessons that cost money for everyone, except they're free for music majors
Also there's the Columbia-Julliard joint program that a bunch of people I know do. You take classes at Columbia and you go to Julliard once a week to take lessons.
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My advice is broad,
What is important changes,
Keep an open mind.
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Also, Rice University has great music programs. I'm applying there for CS, but if you're willing to be in texas it has a great program. (financial aid is pretty good, might be worth taking a look @)
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Netherlands4990 Posts
If you can work hard, then you can get there. But only if you work hard, extremely hard.
"Procrastination may result in stress, a sense of guilt and crisis, severe loss of personal productivity. as well as social disapproval for not meeting responsibilities or commitments." -Wikipedia
Don't let this get to you!!!
Flash once said, that a famous said, that you cannot just be good at one thing to excel/be successful.
You will definitely need a teacher... and masterclasses with famous pianists should offer you great insight! (if you can afford this)
Priorities. SC2 isn't a priority.
Mind you, a hard worker can achieve more than someone with talent alone!
Sorry I cannot advise you educational wise.
Good luck on your journey, travel safe!
+ Show Spoiler +
I've been playing piano for 14 years.
I always dreamed of being a successful pianist, unfortunately I'm too weak, I do not have what it takes.
I'm now studying for pianotechnician instead... Ha... :[
My pianoteacher is a semi-successful pianist and she always tells me performing sucks up a shit ton of energy.
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On November 29 2011 10:48 Ktk wrote:
Ah, yes USC is expensive but if you got PSAT/NMSQT semi-finalist you get half tuition scholarship automatically but I suppose that is something already past.
Oberlin, URochester/Eastman, Juilliard(lolol) others to look out for. oh no conservatories then ignore?
I'd suggest looking at music perf colleges and then from those narrowing those down by which fit you best, price-education-location wise. Price-wise, you could expand more depending on what kind of f-aid you'll get (though I'm assuming middle-class minimal ridiculous college support of course, blergh.)
Lower-tier schools (I hate that phrase) will give you scholarships for good grades, Extracurriculars, etc. so you could relax a litttttttttle bit on money issues especially if you apply in-state public; if you live in Michigan I'd wholeheartedly recommend UMich, it's a very good school ._. (Oregon public college system, not so much)
Since you want to live freely without debt, I'll just say that "prestigious school" degrees are simply not worth doing, if you're good at music you'll get picked up regardless of your degree, especially if you have intentions in performance (less so in teaching)
Thank you, that last sentence really helps. But it's all very helpful of course, thank you! Also godamn are you serious? When I took the PSAT it was just when I started to learn about the SAT/ACT/SAT-subject tests and exactly what part they play in your life. So I did bad on the PSAT but studied for the tests ofc and did much better on the SAT T_T godamn half-tuition is free?? =O lol
On November 29 2011 10:40 emythrel wrote:
I have been a full time musician since the age of 16, however I wouldn't recommend taking the route I did lol. I always knew I wanted to be a singer/songwriter and so when I left school I just went out and did it. I was in a band, we were pretty good and we just started gigging locally in pubs and stuff.
Eventually we got good enough to headline proper music venues but by that time 3 out of the 4 of us were in Uni (the odd one out being me lol). I continued playing gigs with other bands and solo, I worked hard and just kept plugging away. I had no idea what I was doing for the first 5 years, I literally learned the business side of the industry by being out there getting screwed over and learning from my mistakes.
As you are a Pianist and looking to take your education further, I assume you are an aspiring concert player. That is a road down which I wish you the best of luck, I know a few people from my travels who are concert players and they all worked very very hard to get there and were very lucky. Half the battle is being willing you try.
The best thing I can give you is a line from a song I wrote about following your dreams..... this is the motto I lived by for many years.
If you reach for the stars and only make it to the moon, you've still gone further than anyone else before you.
Thank you, I so agree with that last line. I keep that in mind whenever I try new things.
On November 29 2011 10:49 Animostas wrote:
I'm a freshman at Columbia University that's double majoring in music composition/applied math and I'm not much of a performer but I'm fairly good at music theory and analysis. Here, you can just take classes and get the major. It's entirely academic and doesn't require any ability in performance. Lessons are available in the sense that everyone auditions and the best people get lessons that cost money for everyone, except they're free for music majors
Also there's the Columbia-Julliard joint program that a bunch of people I know do. You take classes at Columbia and you go to Julliard once a week to take lessons.
Joint program? whoa whoa whoa!
Also I also like the idea of not having to audition, but it seems Columbia is one of the ones that doesn't have a "school" or aka "conservatory" but instead just a general department of music. I'm looking at the site now and it seems like it says it's a liberal arts college, so probably less focus on music than I'd like. Though I do see there is a music performance program that seems to strive to get students more recognized through performances etc. that looks cool
On November 29 2011 10:54 FaZe wrote:My advice is broad, What is important changes, Keep an open mind.
Then I hope I am wise in choosing to have a backup/dual-degree? ^^
@Froadac
thanks again ^^
On November 29 2011 11:24 s.Q.uelched wrote:If you can work hard, then you can get there. But only if you work hard, extremely hard. "Procrastination may result in stress, a sense of guilt and crisis, severe loss of personal productivity. as well as social disapproval for not meeting responsibilities or commitments." -Wikipedia Don't let this get to you!!! Flash once said, that a famous said, that you cannot just be good at one thing to excel/be successful. You will definitely need a teacher... and masterclasses with famous pianists should offer you great insight! (if you can afford this) Priorities. SC2 isn't a priority. Mind you, a hard worker can achieve more than someone with talent alone! Sorry I cannot advise you educational wise. Good luck on your journey, travel safe! + Show Spoiler +
I've been playing piano for 14 years.
I always dreamed of being a successful pianist, unfortunately I'm too weak, I do not have what it takes.
I'm now studying for pianotechnician instead... Ha... :[
My pianoteacher is a semi-successful pianist and she always tells me performing sucks up a shit ton of energy.
You're right ^^ Even if I don't get into any schools of music I can still practice on my own and get lessons there.
=O Sorry to hear. But life is quite long you can make it eventually ^^ my piano teacher doesn't even have a performance degree, but the website does say he "performs in musical ensemble groups". I guess you're right, perhaps I won't be able to handle the stress/pressure. It may likely be most enjoyable as just a hobby/side-job, possibly performing at small events.
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I have no idea really about your academics and what kind of colleges you are able to apply to. Remember not to rule out any college because of sticker price-- many very expensive colleges end up being cheaper because of better financial aid.
I agree with your sentiment about not going 'all in' to a purely music school. Remember that most schools don't require you to declare your major on entrance to the school. Wherever you end up I would start out taking both business and music classes. Get an idea of the workload from talking to professors and senior and junior students in those majors and then make a decision (dual degree/minor in one or the other, only music, etc).
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On November 29 2011 12:29 RedJustice wrote:
I have no idea really about your academics and what kind of colleges you are able to apply to. Remember not to rule out any college because of sticker price-- many very expensive colleges end up being cheaper because of better financial aid.
I agree with your sentiment about not going 'all in' to a purely music school. Remember that most schools don't require you to declare your major on entrance to the school. Wherever you end up I would start out taking both business and music classes. Get an idea of the workload from talking to professors and senior and junior students in those majors and then make a decision (dual degree/minor in one or the other, only music, etc).
Thank you I have begun asking music students and teachers.
Also, thanks I forgot about financial aid. I'm applying to 10 colleges and I know to many that may be a lot, but my GPA has suffered due to some problems that are out of my direct control, though my SAT and ACT are decent (2040 and 31, which is like the same lol). I take all the "useful" APs offered at my Silver-medal high school, though I only have a 3.6 (hopefully 3.65 by end of this semester, I'm working really hard towards a 4.0 to end strongly).
However, some of the colleges I'm going to allow you to (or force you to?) take business all four years if you want to study it. I'm not sure if this just means you CAN do business over all 4 years, or what. Like maybe you can join in sophmore year, but it just means you'll have to "compress" your course into 3 years instead of spreading it over 4 years?
I also know about how you might need to transfer. I know some colleges will also say you cannot transfer (to business for example) past junior year or such, which makes sense lol, you can't complete 1 majors' worth of courses in 1 year o.o.
My parent's income right now I think is around $50,000. Eff the economy, my father used to have a $125,000 job. Sort of sucks, really. Idk if colleges are really "strict" about the number for financial aid? like would it be like 50k and under = this amount, or is it like an individual basis, with no concrete "intervals"? I think he might make either $40k or $60k or something.
Anyways I'll keep looking, thank you everyone Maybe I'll give yall shout outs or something when everyone works out well ^^
Colleges currently, unedited (no colleges added since after deciding to do music/business)
University of Michigan, Michigan State University, Cornell Universtiy, Emory, UNC, Boston College, UW Madison, Northwestern, NYU, UT Austin, UC Berkely
Michigan Statue University and UW Madison are like safeties.
I read that Austin, Texas was a huge music city. I hope this is true. They are a public school so their average incoming stats are low but I am out of state so I might not make it. If it really is a huge music city I hope I can fulfill my dreams there. But I'm an optimistic person so I don't think I will give up easy. There was also a huge music city somewhere but I forget the name; everyone there plays music everywhere in the streets, and they all wear nametags with nicknames (usually related to musicians or music). Sounds too good to be true.
Edit: Well it's unfortunate I can't make it to USC then. The audition tapes need to be mailed in (lol c'mon really?) by this Thursday. So even if I go hardcore practice 48 hours straight no sleep and record and sedn it and somehow focus all that time, it probably won't even make it there xD.
I'll keep looking though. I heard from a mod from Cella's stream SlideTalent. I asked him, since he's majoring in music -- Don't you need to be like super good at music and play at least a couple hours everyday to succeed?
His reply surprised me. He said no, as long as you get into a good school and practice 3 hours a day, you'll make it. I was quite shocked. It sounds too good to be true. Now he seemed to left out the part about having to audition, but you certainly apparently didn't need to be one of those crazy prodigies or someone who practices a shit ton. Throughout 1st grade to high school, I've only been practicing perhaps 1 hour a week. I know, that's super horrible. I just wish things were different. Then obviously in high school there's an increased work load and I once again regret I could have practiced 2 hours a day starting freshman year, but it took me all these years to learn how to manage my time well, and find ways to motivate myself and focus on things that are most important first.
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