On August 09 2009 02:42 Hot_Bid wrote: hate to be the emotionless jerk, but i don't feel bad for jaedong at all. he was out-prepared and out-executed. he lost not because of some fluke or unluckiness, but because he played bad. shit happens, nobody is perfect. he won several close finals like OSL over fantasy, and i'm sure that hurt a comparable amount given that fantasy was up 2-0. he's in both major league semifinals now too, and he'll be angry and determined. i'm not going to feel bad for jaedong because oz lost to a clearly superior team in a format that really gave them a great shot at winning.
I would just say +1, but these are the most important pieces IMO. It sucks for him, but I don't feel any more sorry for than than I do with other plays I like losing. He's just going to have to keep his mind set so he doesn't get knocked out of the OSL too.
Jaedong has too much on his shoulders, hopefully he doesn't break and slump, and yeah I want him to just roflstomp Fantasy in the OSL , I really liked this blog, its not one sided fanboyism but being more realistic when it comes down to the winners and losers. Hyuk hyukked JD, but JD isn't gonna take this sitting down.
On August 09 2009 02:55 konadora wrote: He was simply outplayed in both games against Fantasy. As for against Hyuk... no idea why he would go 12 hatch after all the recent 12 hatch incidents.
If he's indeed as good enough as I believe him to be, he will be back in no time.
Jaedong thinks he's Flash and can fast expand every game because he is just that good.
On August 09 2009 02:55 konadora wrote: He was simply outplayed in both games against Fantasy. As for against Hyuk... no idea why he would go 12 hatch after all the recent 12 hatch incidents.
If he's indeed as good enough as I believe him to be, he will be back in no time.
Jaedong thinks he's Flash and can fast expand every game because he is just that good.
Hopefully he doesn't end up like Flash ._.
I'm not totally into Jaedong but doesn't he 12 hatch most of his ZvZ games?
On August 09 2009 03:05 Ack1027 wrote: I liked your blog post disciple.
As for the people who think his lost to hyuk had anything to do him being out-played our out-prepared, I think the only possible way you could argue that is that Jaedong was out-prepared in the coaching sense.
Ask yourself if you laughed when hyuk manner colonied himself and see if that follows your logic. Everyone in progaming drops a game at unexpected times, but given Jaedong vs Hyuk where 100% of people would agree Jaedong is the better player you can't blame anyone for sympathizing with Jaedong. He probably feels awful for dropping that game vs someone he knows he could beat.
was hyuk vs jaedong 9p vs 12h? because if that was the case, i can't see why Jaedong would take such an unnecessary risk against a clearly inferior player. i mean why can't he just 12p? if hyuk 12h, he might be slightly ahead, but jaedong can still overpower him with mutas.
On August 09 2009 03:05 Ack1027 wrote: I liked your blog post disciple.
As for the people who think his lost to hyuk had anything to do him being out-played our out-prepared, I think the only possible way you could argue that is that Jaedong was out-prepared in the coaching sense.
Ask yourself if you laughed when hyuk manner colonied himself and see if that follows your logic. Everyone in progaming drops a game at unexpected times, but given Jaedong vs Hyuk where 100% of people would agree Jaedong is the better player you can't blame anyone for sympathizing with Jaedong. He probably feels awful for dropping that game vs someone he knows he could beat.
was hyuk vs jaedong 9p vs 12h? because if that was the case, i can't see why Jaedong would take such an unnecessary risk against a clearly inferior player. i mean why can't he just 12p? if hyuk 12h, he might be slightly ahead, but jaedong can still overpower him with mutas.
12pool vs 12hatch is nearly impossible to win, even with that large of a skill gap.
On August 09 2009 02:55 konadora wrote: He was simply outplayed in both games against Fantasy. As for against Hyuk... no idea why he would go 12 hatch after all the recent 12 hatch incidents.
If he's indeed as good enough as I believe him to be, he will be back in no time.
Jaedong thinks he's Flash and can fast expand every game because he is just that good.
Hopefully he doesn't end up like Flash ._.
I was thinking exactly the same - the top players are just too greedy in their efforts to get early econ advantage. Bisu tends to expand very early in PvP as well and it really pays off, for example vs JangBi on HBR, but its really risky since fending off the first attack is really hard to do, but if you are confident this is the right way to play the game
So I'm guessing from your reply you haven't watched the games yet? Not that it matters...just surprised.
As for why he went 12h expand vs 9p gas trick, I have no idea. I'm not pretending to know. And its as you say, I would agree in my vastly inferior knowledge of ZvZ trying to fight 9p when you 12h expand is like a 80% loss [ as mbc commentators said ] My point however is that you can't blame anyone for feeling bad for him. I mean clearly everyone knows Jaedong is the better player....even if it is as you say and he 12h expanded just because he's so overconfident, does that make him the worse player for that one game, or does it make him worse overall?
I also would like to point to the fact that its proleague grand finals and I'm sure the coach and everyone helping Jaedong knew what a risk it was. Even people who suck like me recognize that you're knowingly putting yourself at a disadvantage by doing the build he did, yet he stuck with it. There must be a reason. Is it Flash syndrome? Did they just guess hyuk would do a different build? I don't know....but I don't think its fair to be like ' well shit he got outplayed you can't feel bad for him '
On August 09 2009 02:55 konadora wrote: He was simply outplayed in both games against Fantasy. As for against Hyuk... no idea why he would go 12 hatch after all the recent 12 hatch incidents.
If he's indeed as good enough as I believe him to be, he will be back in no time.
Jaedong thinks he's Flash and can fast expand every game because he is just that good.
Hopefully he doesn't end up like Flash ._.
I was thinking exactly the same - the top players are just too greedy in their efforts to get early econ advantage. Bisu tends to expands very early in PvP as well and it really pays off, for example vs JangBi on HBR, but its really risky since fending of the first attack is really hard to do, but if you are confident this is the right way to play the game
Yeah Bisu tends to Nexus first in PvZ a lot too, even when he hasn't scouted his opponent properly.
If I recall, in one interview or other, it was mentioned that JulyZerg told by.hero to play a certain way KNOWING that Bisu would definitely double Nexus no matter what.
All the top tier players are just extremely confident in their micro and mechanics, so they fast expand thinking they can pull it off no matter what. And I can easily see Jaedong thinking that there was NO WAY he could lose to a "failzerg" so he decided to 12hatch.
Happens all the time. The S-class players all seem to lose to random scrubs at the most unexpected times, and it's typically because they feel they can get away with playing greedy.
I have the same exact feeling as you man. I am an SKT fan because of their Terrans, but Jaedong has always struck me as a very dedicated person. Him looking so dismayed at losing, and knowing that his team was counting on him more than ever, his humanity appealed to me.
On August 09 2009 01:12 Avidkeystamper wrote: Changed your icon to SKT T1? I actually feel kinda selfish because I would prefer JD winning an individual gold over a PL one, though I'm sure he feels the opposite. There's at least one more season of PL left, but I don't know if Oz will get this chance again =/
That's the main reason I switched from Oz to CJ, because I began to realize that I really wasn't much of an Oz fan but more of a Jaedong fan.
I would also much rather see Jaedong win individual leagues than helping his team win a Proleague one, and Jaedong the individual has so much more potential than Oz the team, imo.
On August 09 2009 02:55 konadora wrote: He was simply outplayed in both games against Fantasy. As for against Hyuk... no idea why he would go 12 hatch after all the recent 12 hatch incidents.
If he's indeed as good enough as I believe him to be, he will be back in no time.
Jaedong thinks he's Flash and can fast expand every game because he is just that good.
Hopefully he doesn't end up like Flash ._.
I'm not totally into Jaedong but doesn't he 12 hatch most of his ZvZ games?
[QUOTE]On August 09 2009 03:30 Kyo Yuy wrote: [QUOTE]On August 09 2009 03:22 disciple wrote: [QUOTE]On August 09 2009 03:14 Kyo Yuy wrote: And I can easily see Jaedong thinking that there was NO WAY he could lose to a "failzerg" so he decided to 12hatch. .[/QUOTE] ... to 12 hatch for which purpose if no way he can lose already??? Lol your argument.
I agree with this sentiment. Although I've been angry at JD quite a few times for knocking out my favorites and wanted SKT1 to win, I do hope he bounces back because he's undeniably one of the best and it'd be sad to see such a monumentally good player go into a slump.
Jaedong vs Fantasy is going to be a great OSL semifinal lol... This was the first PL final that I watched live, and tbh I wasn't too excited until the Lomo won against Best. Then I realized that it was possible that the PL final could conclude with two epic games featuring S-class players only. I was really disappointed.
The thing about it though is it is a TEAM league. It is pretty much common consensus that Jaedong had been carrying his team for virtually the entire year. Does a team really deserve to win because of one all-star player? I think SKT is overall a better team with a much stronger line-up. Honestly I think most people would agree to that.
For that reason I'm kind of glad Jaedong 'choked' in the games he needed to win. I think team leagues should be won by the best TEAM, not the best player.
That said, Jaedong is by far my favorite player (big surprise) and I hope he wins the individual leagues. Those are where he deserves to excel and he earns every win.
And one thing for Hot_Bid: Of course Jaedong got out-prepared... Fantasy was able to practice TvZ for a much longer time because their team was seeded first. But regardless, I think the final result is what it should have been. If it went to a super ace match it would just be JD carrying the team again, instead of the team coming together (they did play amazing on night 2, I'll give them that).
Man I feel the exact same way. I don't begrudge SKT their win, but I wish it didn't come at the cost of such bitterness for Jaedong. It's rare that you see him let OZ down rather than the other way around.
I would have much preferred consecutive 4-1's, with Jaedong winning his games, to this.
In situations like that, you tend to not think objectively. He may completely forget about how he was the one that brought the team to the finals, the only thing that'll be in his head now is how out of 3 games in the finals, when games REALLY matter, he lost all 3.
But the team will hopefully help him stay real and realize that he's done a great thing by carrying the team this far.
EPT
, I really liked this blog, its not one sided fanboyism but being more realistic when it comes down to the winners and losers. Hyuk hyukked JD, but JD isn't gonna take this sitting down.
