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motbob
United States12546 Posts
OZ will lose to SKT.
OZ fans can't feel good about their team's victory last night, but many people were surprised that the match made it to the super ace stage. The general consensus was that the depth of CJ would bring them victory in days 1 and 2, but CJ took a convincing defeat on the first day, 1-4. After hearing CJ fans make "Piratezerg" jokes and emphasize their team's depth in discussions about who would win the match, it was ironic to see such lopsided victories from the top of the CJ skill ladder, where Effort was pummeled by Jaedong, to the bottom, where Hiya perfectly countered Movie's recall-happy style. OZ fans want to see this as a refutation of the "Jaedong OZ" image under which their team of choice currently suffers, and they're hopefully looking at the 4-1 win as evidence that there's a strong possibility that they can beat SKT.
Unfortunately, it's not that simple.
Look at each match on Day 1. With the exception of Lomo vs Skyhigh, each was a dismantling of the CJ player. Yet, these games tell us nothing about the skill of the players involved, because every build performed by Hwaseung's lineup was perfectly suited to the opponent. In other words, OZ's practice time advantage beat out CJ's depth.
Even in the first set,  Lomo had the early advantage until he came to his senses, realized that he is terrible at army management and macro, and let sKyHigh roll over him. In each of the other games, it's crystal clear how Coach Cho's preparation made this match a guaranteed win for Hwaseung.
 Jaedong, eyes glowing red, took out EffOrt with the ZvZ we're used to. It's clear that his claims that he's been practicing "only for Proleague," as opposed to the individual leagues, are true. Jaedong's ling micro was perfect as he exploited Effort's many mistakes on his way to the win.  Movie is known to be a very recall-happy Protoss, and HiyA's build countered that tendency perfectly. HiyA's early mass turrets forced Movie to recall with his fast arbs in a place that wasn't exactly ideal. PerfectMan used a brilliantly prepared build to wipe the floor with Iris, cutting probes and teching up so that his reaver would pop out at exactly the right timing to demolish Iris's main base and expansion. And, of course, BackHo put the icing on the cake with his cannon rush build that was designed to throw the new player Snow off his game.
I can see the hand of a creative and thorough coaching staff in the games 2 nights ago. It's possible that on any given Proleague match day, CJ would be the massive favorite to win a Bo7. But on Day 1 we saw CJ falter and lose 1-4 against brilliant strategies, which came from OZ's coach, and fantastic execution, which came from Hwaseung's huge block of practice time.
This won't be possible again against SKT.
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Jaedong's putting priority in Proleague over a golden mouse? I thought he'd be practicing for his match in OSL hmm
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There should be spoilers in the thread title T___T
The match happened less than 24 hours ago...
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luckily i have already seen this but is a little early to not have spoilers
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It depends on the lineups. SKT T1 has the advantage, but with good lineups Oz would have a chance.
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Agreed, good build decisions day 1 was basicly how they beat cj. Also their entries day 1 was awesome for oz.
Going to be harder vs skt though. Bisu, Fantasy, Best, Canata....omg.
And yes title change please!
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
ahhhhhhhh oh noooo I'm trying to get ahold of a mod now
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T1 has such an amazing lineup atm with bisu, fantasy, canata and best. As long as T1 pairs Hyuk/TheZerg with Jaedong, they'd most likely win.
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What the fuck is with this spoiling thread title..
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On August 03 2009 04:48 inReacH wrote:
What the fuck is with this spoiling thread title..
TL is a StarCraft news site, you don't want to get spoiled about the news but you go on a SC news site? Fucking moron.
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On August 03 2009 04:52 fanatacist wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2009 04:48 inReacH wrote:
What the fuck is with this spoiling thread title.. TL is a StarCraft news site, you don't want to get spoiled about the news but you go on a SC news site? Fucking moron.
You are the f^*(ing moron. It is a news site sure, but then why is every other recent (under 24hrs) spoiler said in a spoiler tag? Seriously, if you come on the site to enter the small vod thread and you see the games spoiled by the title, that is just crap.
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On August 03 2009 04:56 Trezeguet23 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2009 04:52 fanatacist wrote:On August 03 2009 04:48 inReacH wrote:
What the fuck is with this spoiling thread title.. TL is a StarCraft news site, you don't want to get spoiled about the news but you go on a SC news site? Fucking moron. You are the f^*(ing moron. It is a news site sure, but then why is every other recent (under 24hrs) spoiler said in a spoiler tag? Seriously, if you come on the site to enter the small vod thread and you see the games spoiled by the title, that is just crap.
I think it's probably impossible to be spoiled by this title if you're just trying to get to the small vod thread.
Nonetheless, I'm an idiot and I'm trying to fix my idiocy atm.
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On August 03 2009 04:56 Trezeguet23 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2009 04:52 fanatacist wrote:On August 03 2009 04:48 inReacH wrote:
What the fuck is with this spoiling thread title.. TL is a StarCraft news site, you don't want to get spoiled about the news but you go on a SC news site? Fucking moron. You are the f^*(ing moron. It is a news site sure, but then why is every other recent (under 24hrs) spoiler said in a spoiler tag? Seriously, if you come on the site to enter the small vod thread and you see the games spoiled by the title, that is just crap.
It's people like you and those who complain and whines that just make me sad everytime I visit in TL. I mean GOD, WHAT DO YOU EXPECT? IT'S THE GOD DAMN INTERNET!
But really now, you can just pretend to not see it happen? Besides, let me break it down for ya:
VODs are on the top tab of this site, blog entries are bottom left tab of this site.... so clearly you just happen to gasp your eyes on somewhere you shouldn't be....
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On August 03 2009 04:56 Trezeguet23 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2009 04:52 fanatacist wrote:On August 03 2009 04:48 inReacH wrote:
What the fuck is with this spoiling thread title.. TL is a StarCraft news site, you don't want to get spoiled about the news but you go on a SC news site? Fucking moron. You are the f^*(ing moron. It is a news site sure, but then why is every other recent (under 24hrs) spoiler said in a spoiler tag? Seriously, if you come on the site to enter the small vod thread and you see the games spoiled by the title, that is just crap.
OoooOOOooOOoOOhh noes, you get to find out which team won. This doesn't say anything about whether they won the second series, the super ace, who won what games... EVERY game is still a cliffhanger for you, until you get to the last one I guess. You should know not to browse around TL after an important game on the off-chance there are spoilers. Wait until you are ready, go to the VOD thread, then browse TL. Until then, shut the fuck up and stay out of shit like blogs.
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It's been already a full day since it happened so stop complaining about spoiling. Besides, all of you spoiler cry babies were warned to bookmark the Small Vod Thread and access that until you watch the game in order to fully avoid the possibilty of getting spoiled.
Regarding the upcoming final, SKT definitely has the upper hand, atleast in game preparation. Their players practiced the maps since PL ended and they can easily neutralise Jaedong with a zerg and have Bisu/Best/Fantasy/Canata take the other wins.
Gonna be pretty fun to watch though.
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Lol is this whole thread, OZ was awesome and they beat cj using perfect builds and Jaedong's as monstrous as ever and for these reasons they're gonna lose to skt1, LOL I'll take my chances. And I can will feel good about last night
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On August 03 2009 05:03 QuickStriker wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2009 04:56 Trezeguet23 wrote:On August 03 2009 04:52 fanatacist wrote:On August 03 2009 04:48 inReacH wrote:
What the fuck is with this spoiling thread title.. TL is a StarCraft news site, you don't want to get spoiled about the news but you go on a SC news site? Fucking moron. You are the f^*(ing moron. It is a news site sure, but then why is every other recent (under 24hrs) spoiler said in a spoiler tag? Seriously, if you come on the site to enter the small vod thread and you see the games spoiled by the title, that is just crap. It's people like you and those who complain and whines that just make me sad everytime I visit in TL. I mean GOD, WHAT DO YOU EXPECT? IT'S THE GOD DAMN INTERNET! But really now, you can just pretend to not see it happen? Besides, let me break it down for ya: VODs are on the top tab of this site, blog entries are bottom left tab of this site.... so clearly you just happen to gasp your eyes on somewhere you shouldn't be....
You have to scroll down to get to Oz vs. CJ vods.
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
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On August 03 2009 06:02 d(O.o)a wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2009 05:03 QuickStriker wrote:On August 03 2009 04:56 Trezeguet23 wrote:On August 03 2009 04:52 fanatacist wrote:On August 03 2009 04:48 inReacH wrote:
What the fuck is with this spoiling thread title.. TL is a StarCraft news site, you don't want to get spoiled about the news but you go on a SC news site? Fucking moron. You are the f^*(ing moron. It is a news site sure, but then why is every other recent (under 24hrs) spoiler said in a spoiler tag? Seriously, if you come on the site to enter the small vod thread and you see the games spoiled by the title, that is just crap. It's people like you and those who complain and whines that just make me sad everytime I visit in TL. I mean GOD, WHAT DO YOU EXPECT? IT'S THE GOD DAMN INTERNET! But really now, you can just pretend to not see it happen? Besides, let me break it down for ya: VODs are on the top tab of this site, blog entries are bottom left tab of this site.... so clearly you just happen to gasp your eyes on somewhere you shouldn't be.... You have to scroll down to get to Oz vs. CJ vods.
I love how you're trying to argue and completely miss the whole point of my statements as well as the others here...
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On August 03 2009 04:22 motbob wrote:
This won't be possible again against SKT.
There's no way you can say this won't be possible. It wasn't supposed to be possible against CJ and yet it happened. I'm greatly looking forward to an exciting series and I'm hoping it goes to super ace.
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On August 03 2009 06:27 QuickStriker wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2009 06:02 d(O.o)a wrote:On August 03 2009 05:03 QuickStriker wrote:On August 03 2009 04:56 Trezeguet23 wrote:On August 03 2009 04:52 fanatacist wrote:On August 03 2009 04:48 inReacH wrote:
What the fuck is with this spoiling thread title.. TL is a StarCraft news site, you don't want to get spoiled about the news but you go on a SC news site? Fucking moron. You are the f^*(ing moron. It is a news site sure, but then why is every other recent (under 24hrs) spoiler said in a spoiler tag? Seriously, if you come on the site to enter the small vod thread and you see the games spoiled by the title, that is just crap. It's people like you and those who complain and whines that just make me sad everytime I visit in TL. I mean GOD, WHAT DO YOU EXPECT? IT'S THE GOD DAMN INTERNET! But really now, you can just pretend to not see it happen? Besides, let me break it down for ya: VODs are on the top tab of this site, blog entries are bottom left tab of this site.... so clearly you just happen to gasp your eyes on somewhere you shouldn't be.... You have to scroll down to get to Oz vs. CJ vods. I love how you're trying to argue and completely miss the whole point of my statements as well as the others here...
I was in no way trying to argue, I was simply stating the truth you guys say this as though it's impossible to read the blogs on the side even subconsciously because even if you have the small vod thread bookmarked you still have to scroll down past all the threads on the way to your vod you want and I know for my friend's computer you can see all the way to sports & games from the moment you load the main page.
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On August 03 2009 06:27 QuickStriker wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2009 06:02 d(O.o)a wrote:On August 03 2009 05:03 QuickStriker wrote:On August 03 2009 04:56 Trezeguet23 wrote:On August 03 2009 04:52 fanatacist wrote:On August 03 2009 04:48 inReacH wrote:
What the fuck is with this spoiling thread title.. TL is a StarCraft news site, you don't want to get spoiled about the news but you go on a SC news site? Fucking moron. You are the f^*(ing moron. It is a news site sure, but then why is every other recent (under 24hrs) spoiler said in a spoiler tag? Seriously, if you come on the site to enter the small vod thread and you see the games spoiled by the title, that is just crap. It's people like you and those who complain and whines that just make me sad everytime I visit in TL. I mean GOD, WHAT DO YOU EXPECT? IT'S THE GOD DAMN INTERNET! But really now, you can just pretend to not see it happen? Besides, let me break it down for ya: VODs are on the top tab of this site, blog entries are bottom left tab of this site.... so clearly you just happen to gasp your eyes on somewhere you shouldn't be.... You have to scroll down to get to Oz vs. CJ vods. I love how you're trying to argue and completely miss the whole point of my statements as well as the others here...
It's not so much that people miss your point, it's just that your point is totally, completely wrong. How hard is it not to put spoilers in thread titles for a few days? Even the OP realized he fucked up and got it fixed. It's incredible that you have the audacity to break the site rules/defend people who do and then get mad at people for explaining why that rule exists.
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I don't find spoilers to be that big a deal myself but I do find this discussion amusing when the first thing I saw when I opened up tl this morning was 'Wonderful Wizard' and knew with 99% certainty that Oz had won...
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Lets see.. SKT's A team vs Oz's A team
OZ : jaedong , Hiya , Backho , Lomo , Perfectman , ggameo
SKT: Fantasy , Bisu , Canata , BeST , Thezerg , Hyuk
4 SKT players have beaten Jaedong convincingly (BeST , Fantasy , Bisu , Fantasy) ; And Jaedong is only the favorite over 2 of them and one by a small margin.
Besides Jaedong, Oz's lineup looks flimsy. Backho sucks at everything besides PvP (but we could see some epic facepalm if he runs suicides shuttles again) ; Hiya sucks on everything but Collo ; Lomo blows, Perfectman is still new, ggameo sucks..
Look at SKT , Fantasy is vs P / T god ; Bisu is GOD ; Canata made ro8 in BOTH leagues ; BeST sucks PvZ but kicks ass in everything else, and Thezerg has the potential to snipe
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But on Day 1 we saw CJ falter and lose 1-4 against brilliant strategies, which came from OZ's coach, and fantastic execution, which came from Hwaseung's huge block of practice time.
This won't be possible again against SKT.
The place where your logic fails is this: OZ didn't have a "huge block of practice time." Not to specifically prepare builds against CJ. They had exactly one week to prepare for CJ, because until CJ vs. Khan ended, they didn't know that they'd be playing CJ. And until the match lineups came out, they didn't know who would be playing whom.
While I don't doubt that OZ's team was specifically prepared for each match, it wasn't because they had lots of time between the first playoff game and the end of the season. It was because they were well-trained.
Look at SKT , Fantasy is vs P / T god ; Bisu is GOD ; Canata made ro8 in BOTH leagues ; BeST sucks PvZ but kicks ass in everything else
Best ain't what he used to be. Now, he might have regained his form, but he was sucking really bad during the latter stages of the Proleague. As for Fantasy, OZ doesn't have many good Protoss's to begin with, so no big loss.
The key to winning the Proleague is understanding this: you don't have to have the best record. You just have to win that game on that one day.
All OZ needs is 2 wins + Jaedong on one day, then the Super ACE on the last day. Two prepared builds aimed at people who aren't Bisu and Fantasy (Canata isn't all that). Two players who can execute a single build on a single day to take out a single person.
It'll certainly be tough. It all really comes down to the pairings. If OZ gets lucky and Jaedong gets a day where he gets paired with Bisu or Fantasy (and wins), then that's OZ day. That's the day they'll be practicing for.
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On August 03 2009 08:20 NicolBolas wrote:Show nested quote +But on Day 1 we saw CJ falter and lose 1-4 against brilliant strategies, which came from OZ's coach, and fantastic execution, which came from Hwaseung's huge block of practice time.
This won't be possible again against SKT. The place where your logic fails is this: OZ didn't have a "huge block of practice time." Not to specifically prepare builds against CJ. They had exactly one week to prepare for CJ, because until CJ vs. Khan ended, they didn't know that they'd be playing CJ. And until the match lineups came out, they didn't know who would be playing whom. While I don't doubt that OZ's team was specifically prepared for each match, it wasn't because they had lots of time between the first playoff game and the end of the season. It was because they were well-trained. Show nested quote +Look at SKT , Fantasy is vs P / T god ; Bisu is GOD ; Canata made ro8 in BOTH leagues ; BeST sucks PvZ but kicks ass in everything else Best ain't what he used to be. Now, he might have regained his form, but he was sucking really bad during the latter stages of the Proleague. As for Fantasy, OZ doesn't have many good Protoss's to begin with, so no big loss. The key to winning the Proleague is understanding this: you don't have to have the best record. You just have to win that game on that one day. All OZ needs is 2 wins + Jaedong on one day, then the Super ACE on the last day. Two prepared builds aimed at people who aren't Bisu and Fantasy (Canata isn't all that). Two players who can execute a single build on a single day to take out a single person. It'll certainly be tough. It all really comes down to the pairings. If OZ gets lucky and Jaedong gets a day where he gets paired with Bisu or Fantasy (and wins), then that's OZ day. That's the day they'll be practicing for.
While I agree with most of what you said, I think you rated Jaedong a bit too highly over SKT players. I think Bisu, Fantasy, and Canata could all give Jaedong a big challenge. Unlike other teams, SKT has players that have been consistently at Jaedong's level.
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I think Bisu, Fantasy, and Canata could all give Jaedong a big challenge. Unlike other teams, SKT has players that have been consistently at Jaedong's level.
True. Well, except for Canata; Jaedong was able to take him down while only practicing in his spare time.
However, the only scenarios that allow for an OZ victory involve Jaedong winning. So hypothesizing the opposite is conceding the point.
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On August 03 2009 08:20 NicolBolas wrote:Show nested quote +But on Day 1 we saw CJ falter and lose 1-4 against brilliant strategies, which came from OZ's coach, and fantastic execution, which came from Hwaseung's huge block of practice time.
This won't be possible again against SKT. The place where your logic fails is this: OZ didn't have a "huge block of practice time." Not to specifically prepare builds against CJ. They had exactly one week to prepare for CJ, because until CJ vs. Khan ended, they didn't know that they'd be playing CJ. And until the match lineups came out, they didn't know who would be playing whom. While I don't doubt that OZ's team was specifically prepared for each match, it wasn't because they had lots of time between the first playoff game and the end of the season. It was because they were well-trained. Show nested quote +Look at SKT , Fantasy is vs P / T god ; Bisu is GOD ; Canata made ro8 in BOTH leagues ; BeST sucks PvZ but kicks ass in everything else Best ain't what he used to be. Now, he might have regained his form, but he was sucking really bad during the latter stages of the Proleague. As for Fantasy, OZ doesn't have many good Protoss's to begin with, so no big loss. The key to winning the Proleague is understanding this: you don't have to have the best record. You just have to win that game on that one day. All OZ needs is 2 wins + Jaedong on one day, then the Super ACE on the last day. Two prepared builds aimed at people who aren't Bisu and Fantasy (Canata isn't all that). Two players who can execute a single build on a single day to take out a single person. It'll certainly be tough. It all really comes down to the pairings. If OZ gets lucky and Jaedong gets a day where he gets paired with Bisu or Fantasy (and wins), then that's OZ day. That's the day they'll be practicing for.
Why would they not start practicing until the week they find out who they're facing? They had so much down time that they can spend preparing for all the likely possibilities and then the last week spend it focusing directly on that one team.
As for your statement about Oz needing only 2 wins and jaedong so that they can play the aces with jaedong you're wrong, Fantasy and Bisu are both on the same level as jaedong so jaedong will likely have to win 3 tossup matches for their team to advance.
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On August 03 2009 04:25 GhostKorean wrote:
Jaedong's putting priority in Proleague over a golden mouse? I thought he'd be practicing for his match in OSL hmm
check out his post PL interview - it says that he has been using the whole of his team practice time to prepare for proleague, and cutting into his sleep and personal time to prepare for individual leagues.
On August 03 2009 09:37 d(O.o)a wrote:
As for your statement about Oz needing only 2 wins and jaedong so that they can play the aces with jaedong you're wrong, Fantasy and Bisu are both on the same level as jaedong so jaedong will likely have to win 3 tossup matches for their team to advance.
I still like these chances better than counting on lomo to beat a non-zerg SKT, or a backho PvT (wraiths, anyone?). Or young winning a game.
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On August 03 2009 07:00 Incognitodies wrote:
I don't find spoilers to be that big a deal myself but I do find this discussion amusing when the first thing I saw when I opened up tl this morning was 'Wonderful Wizard' and knew with 99% certainty that Oz had won...
It could have been effort.
For those who didn't see the night's matches, it could have came down to an ace match where Effort won again or something.
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On August 03 2009 11:14 ghostWriter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2009 07:00 Incognitodies wrote:
I don't find spoilers to be that big a deal myself but I do find this discussion amusing when the first thing I saw when I opened up tl this morning was 'Wonderful Wizard' and knew with 99% certainty that Oz had won... It could have been effort. For those who didn't see the night's matches, it could have came down to an ace match where Effort won again or something.
Well, no, with that title it really couldn't have been Effort. Preeetty sure the title is a reference to the book/movie Wizard of Oz ("We're off to see the wizard, the wonderful wizard of Oz...") so at least for Americans the title was kind of a giveaway. I think?
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EPT
