[BR]PvT on ICCup

pangshai

Chinatown5333 Posts

May 13 2009 10:56 GMT

I just played a PvT on iccup against a C- korean terran kimura http://www.iccup.com/gamingprofile/kimura.html and I thought I'd share the game.

Game starts on python with me protoss at 12 vs terran at 2. Everything standard in the early game but because this is C- iccup which is not quite out of the cheese zone yet, we put in extra effort to do some additional scouting. 2 gate ob vs siege expo, due to my probe not making it into his base, allows him to get an early advantage with his CC up ages before my nat.

Following standard protoss gameplay, I take a quick third at top left, and we go into the macro game. First engagement post in the mid game occurs when his 2 scouting vultures meet my maynarding probes, and take out 6 of them, a minor set back for protoss in the early game.

After taking out the 2 vultures, my observer catches another group moving out, and expecting them to head for my third, I send a few more dragoons to defend, leaving my nat weakly defended with only 5 dragoons. The vultures speed past the dragoons, and head for my main, leaving a trail of mines behind. Probe genocide ensues, with major losses on my side (11 according to the kill count on his vultures).

Eventually, I clean that out as well, and continue my mining operations. However, terran is up to more sneaky manuevres, with another group of vultures laying mines in the centre of the map, while a dropship moves north to my main, hoping to draw my dragoons away from my nat where the maurauding group of vultures can come in to wreak havoc. Fortunately, I catch sight of the dropship with my observer in his main, and stop it easily with a few dragoons.

While the harass was unsuccessful, it hastaken its toil on my macro, and I get stuck on pylons. Terran chooses this opportune time to move out and attempt to take the shared mineral only base. Being kinda annoyed that I was stuck on pylons, I decided to just engage and try my luck, attacking the position with 3 groups of goons and a shuttle full of zealots. I take out a big group of tanks, but with significant losses on my side as well.

This area remains one of the most disputed areas, as I constantly try to deny his third base from going up, and he keeps reinforcing with more units to hold his position. At 10 gateways and with a 4th base coming up, I was doing fine, while terran had 8 factories, and a good amount of tanks after multiple battles. Still on 2 base though.

Trying to set up the bottom right base now, terran advances his army to take a defensive position near the middle of the map. At this point of time, I'm at 180 supply with high templars coming, and he's at 130 supply. However, feeling overconfident, I engaged his army from a shitty position, and end up losing my whole army, while only killing his vultures. Things were looking bleak for me now. I should've waited for high templars to engage, and he was not pressuring my expansion either.

With that battle won and my army out of commission, terran quickly pushes his army to my 4th base at the nat of 8, taking it out easily. Making a desperate and stupid attack in an attempt to save an already doomed expansion, I suicide the remainder of my army into his tanks that just slice through my dragoons with their recently upgraded +2 weapons upgrade. A group of zealot/dragoon reinforcements also run into his tanks piecemeal and vapourise quickly. In the meantime, his bottom right base comes online, but thankfully his main is out, and his nat has just scraps of minerals left.

Seeking to put a further dent into my economy, vultures head for my top left base where they meet a measly resistance of 2 cannons, taken out quickly. Once again, I lose a whole bunch of probes before my ridiculously small army can come and force the vultures away. My nat was running dry though, so I had excess probes to replace those lost at top left.

Figuring that his main and nat are probably out by now, I send my new army of about 2 groups of dragoon/zealot to his bottom right base, hoping to cease his mining, and halt the growth of his army. An observer at his nat sees a huge army move out, but instead of saving his expansion, overconfident terran makes a move for my main, while starting a CC at the shared mineral only. Strangely, due to some rally point error, I had a goon standing nearby, and it quickly put an end to the SCV constructing the CC.

After reaching my nat and killing a group of zealots there, terran suddenly decides to take revenge on the army that killed his bottom right expansion, and his army of like 2 groups of vultures and 1 group of tanks easily crushes mine. At this point of time, I'm about to type in the GG and leave the game, but decide to just stick in it and try to get some storms off first, since I had a whole bunch of templar from my excess gas. Knowing that he's out of mineral bases, I start the island expansion in hopes of possibly winning a war of attrition. For some reason, terran has decided to let my top left expansion live, and I'm able to put together scraps of an army.

After moving into my nat and taking out some pylons, terran once again strangely backs off, perhaps to finally go kill my top left. I take this moment to move my army of about a group of dragoon/zealot and like 10 templar (4 in shuttle) down the ramp. It appears thats what he was waiting for, and he eagerly comes back to take it out. His vultures initially advance first, and I thought all was over as they'd snipe my templar easily with their +3 weapons upgrade. Luckily for me, a storm scared them off, and more storms killed a large chunk of his army.

Now, with my island up and his army size greatly reduced, it seemed I had a chance at the game again, with him long distance mining from the mineral only. However, he quickly figures out where my only income source must be, and a drop heads for it. I stop the first drop with a couple of dragoons, losing a good number of probes, and a second drop of 4 vultures kills the remainder. In the meantime, he's floated his CC to the mineral only, but with the minerals mined from the island, I had managed to put a ragtag army of some zealots and a couple of dragoons, which made their way to his mineral only, taking out the meagre defenses and lots of SCVs, forcing the CC to float.

His last units manage to kill my zealots, but he had already suffered a major loss of SCVs. A lone DT at bottom right took out the attempt at expanding there as well, and with both CCs floated, he had no detection. After realising that his drop would not be able to do any damage to my island, he leaves the game.

GG. Hope you enjoyed the report.

Lq_ fAn

Lithuania154 Posts

May 13 2009 11:10 GMT

nice game nice report why should I download rep? I saw best moves :D

ThePhan2m

Norway2750 Posts

May 13 2009 11:16 GMT

his 3rd base was waay to late :o

Vex

Ireland454 Posts

May 13 2009 11:16 GMT

thought it was Kimyura
but clearly not.
GG tho :D

+ Show Spoiler +

kimyura is an A+ player, old practice partner for STX

pangshai

Chinatown5333 Posts

May 13 2009 11:41 GMT

On May 13 2009 20:16 ThePhan2m wrote:
his 3rd base was waay to late :o

hard to take third base when you don't have much units to defend it though. uploaded the replay to http://www.repdepot.net/replay.php?id=12548

Nytefish

United Kingdom4282 Posts

May 13 2009 12:52 GMT

Haha no wonder Terrans whine so much about TvP.

From T's point of view:
P loses opening build order game.
P loses economy to harass.
P gets confused and attacks, somehow winning.
P suicides army.
P suicides army again.
P loses expansions.
P loses army again.
P makes a DT.
P wins.

In reality:
T had bad macro.
T had bad decision making.
T didn't expand properly.
T loses.

vlaric

United States412 Posts

May 13 2009 13:14 GMT

Nice report. Kept me interested the whole way through.

konadora

Singapore66307 Posts

May 13 2009 13:17 GMT

He didn't GG!

Sick game though, looked pretty close.

pangshai

Chinatown5333 Posts

May 13 2009 13:36 GMT

On May 13 2009 21:52 Nytefish wrote:
P gets confused and attacks, somehow winning.

lol. this is so true, and happens in 50% of my pvt games.

also, you missed out P makes high templars, and abuses storms.

Dead9

United States4725 Posts

May 20 2009 05:50 GMT

#10

3clipse

Canada2555 Posts

May 20 2009 11:26 GMT

#11

On May 13 2009 22:36 pangshai wrote:

Show nested quote +

lol. this is so true, and happens in 50% of my pvt games.

also, you missed out P makes high templars, and abuses storms.

I find it amusing how some criticise the "lack" of micro involved with controlling a Protoss army, and then when a Protoss player uses a lot of casters or reavers skillfully, they're obviously overpowered and the player is "abusive".

YPang

United States4024 Posts

May 20 2009 12:45 GMT

#12

LOL @ the diagram so true...

konadora

Singapore66307 Posts

May 21 2009 06:54 GMT

#13

On May 20 2009 14:50 Dead9 wrote:

Best diagram ever.

pangshai

Chinatown5333 Posts

May 21 2009 08:16 GMT

#14

On May 20 2009 20:26 3clipse wrote:

Show nested quote +

Actually I think a lot of protoss army micro is spreading your goons out so they don't all get owned by splash damage. Thats all I'm microing in the early game when I'm engaging with just pure goons + shuttle.

3clipse

Canada2555 Posts

May 21 2009 20:34 GMT

#15

On May 21 2009 17:16 pangshai wrote:

Show nested quote +

Well yeah, there's still plenty to micro even with a basic goon and zealot army. You have to clear all mines out of tank range with goons, then send out individual zealots to clear more mines within tank firing range, then engage with an army that's adequately spread out (and keep it spread out), hard move several different groups of zealots to several different groups of tanks before issuing an attack order, then move as many groups of goons forward as possible between their attack animations. It's just funny how any style P chooses to play is subject trolling. Early aggression? "PROTOSS CHEESE OMFG GAY" Expansion into macro game? "PROTOSS 1A2A3 OMFG GAY" Unique, well thought out strategy based on your map or opponent that doesn't qualify as one of the above? "PROTOSS MAP/STRAT ABUSE OMFG GAY"

arb

Noobville17921 Posts

May 21 2009 20:55 GMT

#16

i think you needed more zealots mostly looking @ the screenshot where you said you were at 180 him at 130

meathook

1289 Posts

May 22 2009 00:03 GMT

#17

So, OP, where is the replay?

On May 13 2009 21:52 Nytefish wrote:
Haha no wonder Terrans whine so much about TvP.

From T's point of view:
P loses opening build order game.
P loses economy to harass.
P gets confused and attacks, somehow winning.
P suicides army.
P suicides army again.
P loses expansions.
P loses army again.
P makes a DT.
P wins.

In reality:
T had bad macro.
T had bad decision making.
T didn't expand properly.
T loses.
P made DT.

Fixed.

Nytefish

United Kingdom4282 Posts

May 22 2009 00:10 GMT

#18

At least when tosses whined about PvZ half a decade ago, they whined about every unit zerg could make. Well except infested terrans, but that's just because Holy World hadn't been made yet.

R3condite

Korea (South)1541 Posts

May 22 2009 23:43 GMT

#19

yeah but see how many mistakes he made?

i was really surprised when he said that T only had 130 suppp when P had 180... bad macro is right...

obesechicken13

United States10467 Posts

June 06 2009 03:31 GMT

#20

It looks like your opponent was overconfident or short on time. During a lunch block at my school's computer lab, I was playing a game of chess online. When the bell rang for lunch I had 2 queens and a knight (i traded my first one for his queen so I had a total of three queens over the course of the game) and of course a king. He had a knight and a king. Because I wanted to eat, I moved my king up, and I lost both my queens and since a knight and king can never mate a king, the game ended in a tie. And I rushed to lunch. Damn bastard kept using up time thinking during our ten minutes/player game! I made each move in like 2 seconds.

Happens in SC too. He was way ahead though judging by the screens. Two queens! To a knight! Maybe he was in such a hurry, he forgot to gg.

Racenilatr

United States2756 Posts

June 06 2009 16:23 GMT

#21

THat terran's push seemed poorly set up. He had very minimal defenses setup too

inertinept

Bangladesh1195 Posts

June 06 2009 16:43 GMT

#22

PvT is balanced at the pro level. Not our fault the retards choose to be terran. they probably see military and are like "WOW THAT FITS PERFECTLY WITH MY TRAILER TRASH BACKGROUND LOLZZ"

fucking terran whiners.