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Questions about teams

Blogs > nimysa
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nimysa
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States383 Posts
March 14 2009 03:49 GMT
#1
Could anyone tell me why CJ is performing so strong? What is it about CJ that makes them produce good performance and players? Is it the atmosphere? Do they have some kind formula or something?

What is Coach Cho's relationship with ForGG and Anytime? Haven't they been with him since the start of the early Lecaf days? How can such a relationship become so poor?



***
anderoo
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada1876 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-14 04:27:50
March 14 2009 04:25 GMT
#2
depth

edit:
effort
iris
kwanro
movie
much
savior
skyhigh
xellos
JWD
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States12607 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-14 04:31:57
March 14 2009 04:28 GMT
#3
On March 14 2009 12:49 nimysa wrote:
Could anyone tell me why CJ is performing so strong? What is it about CJ that makes them produce good performance and players? Is it the atmosphere? Do they have some kind formula or something?


Well, CJ hadn't been even respectable before WL began, so it's hard to say that they possess some master plan for success in the Proleague.

I think a lot of their success in WL had to do with the new format - seems several of their players perform better in the KotH format (Iris, sAviOr). Once they won a few matches, the team's morale went through the roof (Savior spoke about this in one of his interviews) and of course this gave their new players confidence and motivated everyone to practice more. The WL was kind of like a fresh start for CJ, since it has its own playoffs - they could forget their poor Proleague performance and focus on winning matches.

The WL format also helped CJ by totally throwing a wrench in the play of some regular PL giants, like T1 and KHAN. STX and MBC also looked quite strong in the beginning of the PL season, but totally choked in the WL. So, not only did CJ step up, but some other teams definitely fell off.

Also, Savior's drive to prove himself in the Lost Saga MSL definitely helped the team. With Savior practicing diligently, he once again became a weapon (and helped CJ close out a couple matches earlier in the WL season).

CJ also has some young players that have been getting better and better as the PL progresses: sKyHigh, Memory, Movie, and EffOrt all stepped up to make contributions to their WL run. They have a nice blend of old vets who can still pitch in wins and up-and-coming talent. The big question will be whether they can continue their recent success once the PL returns to its traditional format.

Oh yeah, and the post above reminds me of one other factor: CJ has pretty good depth in all three of the races, which means they are perfectly suited to exploiting map imbalances. This becomes more important in WL play, where using map imbalance in your favor is almost necessary to take out opposing teams' heavy-hitters. Depth across all races also makes it difficult for opposing teams to practice - they have to consider all three matchups at all times.
✌
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
March 14 2009 04:31 GMT
#4
CJ has depth.

Once FlaSh goes down, KTF is screwed. When IriS loses they have skYhigh, when EffOrt loses they have sAviOr, when Movie loses they have Much, etc.
RIP Aaliyah
JWD
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States12607 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-14 04:37:44
March 14 2009 04:36 GMT
#5
It's worth noting, though, that depth isn't everything - I mean, just look at MBC. They have one of the league's deepest rosters easily:

Z: Saint, Shark, Hyun
T: Sea, Light, RuBy
P: Pusan, Jaehoon

But they totally blew the WL. Or what about STX?

Z: July, Calm, by.hero
T: Hwasin, Notice
P: Kal, YoonJoong

Not too shabby...the point is, it'd be hard to argue that CJ is significantly deeper than MANY other teams in the WL who performed significantly worse. There are other factors at play here.
✌
taohiker
Profile Joined March 2009
34 Posts
March 14 2009 04:55 GMT
#6
I think it's reasonable to assume some players do better when they're able to focus on one player/race/map and then go out on perform on it, as apposed to playing on the fly vs random people on lots of different maps. Maybe CJ players are just better suited to this style of competition?
Atrioc
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States1865 Posts
March 14 2009 05:04 GMT
#7
lets not forget that CJ has the most kickass coach in all of coaching

and players that seem to be really close/dedicated to their team

just having someone like Xellos (who paid for CJ out of his own winnings/pocket before they found a sponsor) is some serious shit when it comes to morale.

Plus it seems like they prioritize Winner's League well above practicing for Starleagues (not that there were any major CJ players this season in individuals) - Skyhigh practicing to snipe Jaedong on Destinition for an entire week, for example.

Writerman what
fusionsdf
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada15390 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-14 06:12:10
March 14 2009 06:09 GMT
#8
On March 14 2009 13:28 JWD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2009 12:49 nimysa wrote:
Could anyone tell me why CJ is performing so strong? What is it about CJ that makes them produce good performance and players? Is it the atmosphere? Do they have some kind formula or something?


Well, CJ hadn't been even respectable before WL began, so it's hard to say that they possess some master plan for success in the Proleague.

I think a lot of their success in WL had to do with the new format - seems several of their players perform better in the KotH format (Iris, sAviOr). Once they won a few matches, the team's morale went through the roof (Savior spoke about this in one of his interviews) and of course this gave their new players confidence and motivated everyone to practice more. The WL was kind of like a fresh start for CJ, since it has its own playoffs - they could forget their poor Proleague performance and focus on winning matches.

The WL format also helped CJ by totally throwing a wrench in the play of some regular PL giants, like T1 and KHAN. STX and MBC also looked quite strong in the beginning of the PL season, but totally choked in the WL. So, not only did CJ step up, but some other teams definitely fell off.

Also, Savior's drive to prove himself in the Lost Saga MSL definitely helped the team. With Savior practicing diligently, he once again became a weapon (and helped CJ close out a couple matches earlier in the WL season).

CJ also has some young players that have been getting better and better as the PL progresses: sKyHigh, Memory, Movie, and EffOrt all stepped up to make contributions to their WL run. They have a nice blend of old vets who can still pitch in wins and up-and-coming talent. The big question will be whether they can continue their recent success once the PL returns to its traditional format.

Oh yeah, and the post above reminds me of one other factor: CJ has pretty good depth in all three of the races, which means they are perfectly suited to exploiting map imbalances. This becomes more important in WL play, where using map imbalance in your favor is almost necessary to take out opposing teams' heavy-hitters. Depth across all races also makes it difficult for opposing teams to practice - they have to consider all three matchups at all times.


its a bit disingenuous to paint the WL results as lucky/unusual. This team brought up xellos, midas, gorush, ra, savior, iris, much, movie, effort, skyhigh, kwanro.
how many of those players were bought?

There is something special about CJ in terms of developing talent that other teams just can't match. CJ in its current form is I think still indisputably the deepest team in the proscene. Bisu/July/MBC was close, but no team right now is.

agree with you for the most part about the other things
SKT_Best: "I actually chose Protoss because it was so hard for me to defeat Protoss as a Terran. When I first started Brood War, my main race was Terran."
IntoTheWow
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
is awesome32274 Posts
March 14 2009 06:11 GMT
#9
They rawk
Moderator<:3-/-<
ShloobeR
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Korea (South)3809 Posts
March 14 2009 06:55 GMT
#10
On March 14 2009 13:36 JWD wrote:
It's worth noting, though, that depth isn't everything - I mean, just look at MBC. They have one of the league's deepest rosters easily:

Z: Saint, Shark, Hyun
T: Sea, Light, RuBy
P: Pusan, Jaehoon

But they totally blew the WL. Or what about STX?

Z: July, Calm, by.hero
T: Hwasin, Notice
P: Kal, YoonJoong

Not too shabby...the point is, it'd be hard to argue that CJ is significantly deeper than MANY other teams in the WL who performed significantly worse. There are other factors at play here.


I dunno how you can compare MBCs depth to CJs

I mean... Saint, Shark, Hyun? That's honestly not a good zerg lineup, I rooted for saint a while but he's just so painful to watch now, Their terran lineup is good on a good day, Their P is probably their strongest at the moment.

STX though, yeh, I have no idea how they aren't performing up to standards
: o )
o3.power91
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Bahrain5288 Posts
March 14 2009 10:20 GMT
#11
On March 14 2009 13:36 JWD wrote:
It's worth noting, though, that depth isn't everything - I mean, just look at MBC. They have one of the league's deepest rosters easily:

Z: Saint, Shark, Hyun
T: Sea, Light, RuBy
P: Pusan, Jaehoon

But they totally blew the WL. Or what about STX?

Z: July, Calm, by.hero
T: Hwasin, Notice
P: Kal, YoonJoong

Not too shabby...the point is, it'd be hard to argue that CJ is significantly deeper than MANY other teams in the WL who performed significantly worse. There are other factors at play here.

lol @ YoonJoong
Also MBC isn't that deep -_-
nimysa
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States383 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-14 19:06:38
March 14 2009 17:52 GMT
#12
funny no one replied about Coach Cho's relationship with ForGG and Anytime.......

Anyway I think someone said how the CJ coach had this particular form of coaching and helping the players, I'm not sure I can't find it....
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