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On November 30 2008 02:31 Kuja900 wrote:
Low eco games are what july lives for idra made the wrong choice and feared the mutalisks to much. July scouted very early and expanded extremely quickly 2 things he would not have done against a player he thought was on even calibur with him, but he looked down on idra and expecting early cheese things went downhill. That scout would not have came if july thought he was evenly matched, julys perception of idra won him the game. The vultures were a dumb idea after july scouted him (btw insanely nice building placement by july i really liked it), he had VESSELS and stayed in his base fearing like what 6 mutas no reason to not push out and punish july for that very fast 3rd base, which in turn is what july was counting on him not to do. July banked on Idra's inexperience and he made the right call. Not to detract from Idra i think he has great potential but this was not a close game.
July's reaction was very much how july usually reacts to fast gas, no matter the opponent.
I'm quite sure July's expansion timing was a result of him expecting a mech build (note how he throughs down the hatch _before_ scouting marines.) The reason he wasn't punished for the mistake was of course that idra allowed himself to become contained by 6-7 mutas for just a tad bit too long.
And I don't know wtf you are rambling on about when it comes to the scout timing, july scouts that early very often on two player maps. His game vs mind in the first group stage the OSL he won is a fairly good example of how his build this game by no means was a result of "looking down" on idra.
Idras build was good, just a bit better control and a bit more confidence and things might have turned out differently.
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United States3824 Posts
Idra's one base play was fun to watch. Was it Thezerg that boxer played against last prelims that he did one base play? It went much better than that one.
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Greg lost like a Korean imo... good build, good defense, late expo, but the problem here is JulyZerg.. he is too good...
ppl sayin dumb shit are fucktards.. come on think about it.. its july! the guy who stomped on iloveoov when oov was Jesus Christ on earth TvZ, the guy that has a golden mouse, etc...
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On November 30 2008 04:28 InfeSteD wrote:
Greg lost like a Korean imo... good build, good defense, late expo, but the problem here is JulyZerg.. he is too good...
ppl sayin dumb shit are fucktards.. come on think about it.. its july! the guy who stomped on iloveoov when oov was Jesus Christ on earth TvZ, the guy that has a golden mouse, etc...
The thing is it didn't have to be JulyZerg. The game was lost because of a strategical error that most zergs could have capitalized on. Idra was really far behind the moment that drone scout got into his base.
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On November 30 2008 03:49 lgdDante wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2008 13:42 Chef wrote:
His build's goal was to get a few free kills with a hidden vulture raid (why he lifted it off and moved it). But when July scouted his fast gas, he shouldn't have kept doing it, because now it was guaranteed to fail (since July isn't a retard and has seen the build a million times before). Idra could have gone fast wraiths and at least gotten some harass done, but instead he just decided to keep doing a strat he knew would fail. I don't call that improvement, I call that cracking under the pressure and under-performing. His build had nothing to do with purposely getting 2 bases behind so that he could kill one third... The fact that you think that is hilarious. So because idra's fast gas was scouted, he shouldnt have made a vulture which costs 75 mins. Instead he should have gone for a just as obvious cheese which costs a hell of a lot more and would delay his vessel, despite the fact that July was making 1-2 hydras. What?
You can dance around hydras with wraiths... You can't dance around a sunk with a vulture that July knew was coming.
Why do people think this build is so innovative lol... It's as old as StarCraft. The only innovative part about it was lifting the factory from his main to prevent a ling scout or whatever from seeing a vult go out the front end... But that cuteness didn't even matter, because July had already scouted the fast gas. The 150 minerals could have gone into a faster expo, or a few more marines. Not two vultures that were destined to do nothing.
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On November 30 2008 04:44 Chef wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 04:28 InfeSteD wrote:
Greg lost like a Korean imo... good build, good defense, late expo, but the problem here is JulyZerg.. he is too good...
ppl sayin dumb shit are fucktards.. come on think about it.. its july! the guy who stomped on iloveoov when oov was Jesus Christ on earth TvZ, the guy that has a golden mouse, etc... The thing is it didn't have to be JulyZerg. The game was lost because of a strategical error that most zergs could have capitalized on. Idra was really far behind the moment that drone scout got into his base.
No.
July went 2 hatch muta with vulture proof building placement.
July would have went 2 hatch muta with vulture proof building placement if he scouted a wallin as well. If anything the scout was to check for 8 rax.
Do you seriously think july would have thought "Yea well, he must be building a cc behind that wall" and then continued pumping drones? No of course not, the scout didnt matter that much.
The fact though that you are seriously advocating wraith tech vs 2 hatch lair > den > hydra > spire
suggests rather limited tvz experience.
Idra was in great shape right until he decided to not attack with a bunch of mm vs 7 muta and 4 hydra.
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On November 29 2008 19:21 jgad wrote:
hero commentators!
"He's on team CJ, but he looks like Bill Gates!!"
LOL!
the handsomeness
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On November 29 2008 10:41 Chef wrote:Idra's build was transparent, and his micro uninspired. Say what you will, but I've always thought Idra was a very boring player to watch. I'm really indifferent to his success... It'd be nice to have a good foreigner in the seen, but at the same time, I don't want it to be Idra. Here's rooting for Nony to get it done. Show nested quote +He was too slow in moving out. He also seemed to have too few units and too slow of an expansion. That being said, It took JulyZerg 14 minutes to beat an E class terran and he didn't exactly run over IdrA in any fight but the last. Idra definitely got outclassed in every fight. Did you see how bad his marine splits were? You could chalk it up to nervousness if you want, but he still didn't perform.
wow... fuck you kid
thank you for posting the vid raithed, i had no idea idra had a semi-broadcasted match vs julyzerg the other day. was a good watch, i agree with others that idra's shown a lot of improvement!
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Of course IdrA got outclassed... its a given, but any other noob korean would have as well... the whole point of the conversation is: *IdrA shows korean improvement" for some reason a lot of us can see that spark... I don't even kno wwhat it is but he looked more pro even though he got raped... there is just something we cannot describe that well
in the other hand, NonY will fucking rape! :D
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Chef has no idea what he is talking about -.-; Just because someone has scouted fast gas doesn't mean he knows exactly what you're doing. Gas can lead to mech, wraiths, fast drop ship, tank push or whatever else he wants to do. July isn't going to think to himself, "Wow, it's gas, he must definitely be trying to get early vultures". And it would be stupid of Idra to think, "Wow, my early vultures are scouted, maybe I should switch to wraiths and completely change my gameplan because he obviously knows that I'm going fast vultures now".
And regarding his marine splits, they were fine, in almost perfect arcs around the lurkers. What a spread will do is minimize the chance that lurkers will hit multiple marines at once, not completely eliminate the possibility. God damn I hate ignorant blind haters like you.
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I know what I would have thought if I were Zerg in that position, and I sure as hell know July is a lot smarter than me. The fact that he got the sunk up is proof of that, no matter what you say. Maybe he wasn't positive the vultures were coming, but he was positive he needed to put a defence up against it, and as it happens, vultures pretty much suck dick if just just put up one sunk. Yes, July absolutely knew for fucking sure that Idra was doing a tech build. A vulture or two for harass is pretty standard with tech builds. The only other thing Idra could have been doing, was a devoted metal build with goliaths and such, but that isn't really a good idea on Destination (neither is drop, unless he proxies the starport). Call me ignorant all you want, but when Idra saw that drone get into his base, I guarantee you he was thinking "aww, fuck." At least if the wall had gone up he could have left the suspicion he was just pretending to be foregoing marines.
His marines splits were bad... I don't know what more proof you want than all his marines dying while killing fuck all.
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Yes, it's true that mech builds do come with vultures a lot, and that's why July put up the sunken. But are you telling me that Idra should've just completely given up his gameplan and gotten wraiths? There's a reason why wraiths aren't a good opening in TvZ. If I were Idra, even if I thought he knew what was coming, I would have MUCH rather gone with what I'd practiced many times with the chance that the vultures could win me the game rather than switch to a cheese build that any zerg, let alone July, could stop with ease. That's like saying, "I'll switch to speedlot all in because he scouted my DT rush". What can you do after you've built the citadel? You can't really switch, and I'd much rather use 150 minerals with the chance that I MIGHT win than save it for an expo and be playing uphill all game against July and lose anyways.
edit:
I don't know much better you could have split it within a couple of seconds.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
chef you are clueless and should shut the fuck up
thx
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
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On December 01 2008 15:14 Rekrul wrote:
chef you are clueless and should shut the fuck up
thx
what he said.
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My favorite post of this thread is when some guy goes "hes indifferent to Idra's success" and then a few sentences later he says "I dont want him to be a succesful foreign sc player in korea" lol. Gee so much for indifference or even hiding your bias.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.fsinet.or.jp/~sokaisha/rabbit/991017/senbei.JPG)
![[image loading]](http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/8477/splitjc4.jpg)
