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Blogs > Plexa
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Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-02-03 16:48:47
February 03 2008 16:44 GMT
#1
DCCCXV; a reflection of the balance of PvT on 815

For the next couple blogs I'll look at some of the more interesting maps and look at particular aspects of them. This blog will examine the balance of PvT on 815 as it developed through time.

[image loading]

The map in question


Features

815 is an interesting concept map, especially considering it was the first semi-island map ever to be used in Progaming. I'll examine this considering purely PvT aspects as to avoid confusion.

Firstly, the most striking and pivotal feature of the map is the small ramp. The ramp essentially makes factory units helpless without a dropship, and also hurt protoss as they cannot get dragoons up or down (but zealots are fine). This makes aggression restricted to Drop based play for the most part of the early game. The ramp is also very easy to defend due to the how thin it is.

If we glance to the islands, we note that its very simple for a terran to float a command center over without aid. While a risky investment, it can be easily defended by erecting a number of turrets. As gas is scarce on land, this is a particularly favorable aspect for Terran.

The land itself is quite balanced. There is enough room for the protoss to maneuver but enough room for a terran to still secure a large section of land. Also, its difficult to build turrets due to the ample use of rocky ground so it kinda balances out.

Its also important to note that gas is only in mains and islands; making those expos more valuable than the nat.

Because its an island map (basically), Carriers are strong on this map. They can easily shut down renegade expos and dodge goliaths - but they can still get trapped over land and get raped. Arguably the best counter for Carriers on this map is Wraith; which gives the Terran a lot of mobility on a map that would otherwise be difficult to traverse.

A struggle for balance

[image loading]


The first game (pvt that is) on this map was between the almighty DevilToss Kingdom and Silent *i faint on TV* Control. Sadly, the vod is probably gone forever but it still is important to the development of the map.

Both players opted for a very fast expansion, both before their rax/gate. Silent_Control took control of the game early on and for the next 30 minutes Kingdom constantly defended with series of swift recalls + carrier + stasis usage.

[image loading]


Kingdom won because he abused the limited mobility factor of the map against Control; but it was plainly obvious. The map was heavily in favor of Terran.
On August 09 2005 06:58 uhjoo wrote:
control relaxed and thought he could coast and he got burned, he looked like he was gonna eat his own face after he lost

and yes 815 is totally a terran map o_o
But an important question was raised from this game, as a protoss is it possible to play this map any other way other than defensively? (The game was also important in the development of the arbiter, but thats another story)

[image loading]

The Next Innovator


Goodfriend asserted the Terran dominance on 815 convincingly in So1. Thankfully, the Chinese pulled their act together and hosted all of So1 on mofile so after a lot of searching these vods are all here. Goodfriend did a lot with this map and his impact can't be denied.

[image loading]


Goodfriend vs Stork
Due to the layout of the map, its pretty safe to assume that a fast expansion is a good way to start the game. However, Goodfriend decides to play to the map and preform a Marine/SCV all in on Stork - who fast expands to 10 main (he is at 2). Simple, easy, rape. GF just rushes up the ramp, kills the pylon and laughs as Stork's probes get annihilated.

[image loading]


Goodfriend vs Reach
This is a rather interesting game, Goodfriend knows that this is a good map for terran so aggressively expands knowing that reach has no option but to play defensively against him. Reach does everything he can (including building a sair to scout) but is utterly helpless. Goodfriend gets cocky, and starts to mass up BC. Then the game really gets going, in a rather unusual end game we have fights between BC/Goliath and Carriers/DA/Storm. Reach pulls out all the stop in what really is first class defence. But ultimately, Goodfriend hangs in there and wins.

[image loading]


Goodfriend vs Pusan
Pusan takes an entirely different approach to the map. Rather than risking it with an early expansion and playing passively, he treats the map as a purely island map. Thus, his build focuses heavily on Shuttles and Reavers (and goons). Goodfriend on the other hand opts for a fast island expansion by means of CC float. Pusan's harass is pretty good, and if it werent for the island he would've been miles ahead. Sadly, Pusan missed the island expansion for ages, and when he did find it, GF's economic superiority was too much and he rode it out for the rest of the game.

[image loading]


All three games showed a different aspect of the map. Goodfriend showed that the protoss must be 100% focused to win, and even then its a hard task. Cheeky expansions can easily go punished by a Terran, but Stork's build was the a stepping stone in the right direction for Protoss. Pusan's attempt should also be commended; but its failings were the lack of scouting involved with the build and the easily secured island expansion by Goodfriend. Reach adopted the Kingdom method, but couldn't swing the game in his favor despite a massive comeback.

[image loading]


Boxer vs Reach
As expected, Boxer brought a new take on the map. His entire gameplan revolved around delaying Reach's expansions and ensuring the only expansions he did take were mineral only expansions. Boxer in turn took the islands and abused his gas advantage to victory. Boxer's very island styled play with mass dropship turned this game into a 1 sided rape.

Resoration

[image loading]

The Revivalists


Actually, the above caption is not entirely accurate.

[image loading]

The REAL revivalist


Stork had the right idea all along on 815, and he was going to prove it in ODT.

Stork vs Nada
Stork once again used his fast expansion into another main build, and then went Nal_ra on Nada's ass. He fast teched to arbiters, hallucinated them and went recall crazy. To further humiliate Nada he stole an SCV and massed up some terran metal before Nada gg'd. Nada, one of the greatest players, got dominated on a severely T>>P map, or was it T>>P? Stork was showing Protoss the right way to play, Terran's got their fast gas expansion by floating to an island, a Protoss would get their by expanding to another main; which would be immune to vult harass thanks to the ramp (unless you float a fac like nada).

[image loading]


Anytime vs Xellos
Anytime took an adapted version of Storks build; he followed up the fast expand with cannons everywhere then straight to DT tech to defend against everything. Then 2base carrier to wear Xellos down. Xellos may have played the game all wrong, but Anytime showed that this was the only way to play the map as a protoss.

[image loading]


Pusan vs Boxer game 1
Pusan followed suit, and also expanded to another main. Boxer, however, reacted much better than Xellos. Instead of going through with his initial plan; he canceled his 2nd factory and opted for Wriath Play. After an intense struggle to keep expos alive, in the end Pusan's carriers proved to be too much. The protoss had now figured out a great way to get to carriers, and thus were starting to win games more frequently. The map now looked quite P>T as for 3 games now Terran had been unable to find a solution to the fast expand into another main.

[image loading]


Pusan vs Boxer Game 5
Pusan abandons the expo into main build (which is a good thing considering Boxer opened 2rax -> double main scout). Boxer simply played this as he did against Reach, ensuring Pusan only expanded to mineral only expos while he took the gas expansions. In the end, the lack of gas cost Pusan who simply couldnt afford upgrades for Carriers (they were 0-0-0) and lost out to Goliaths (3-3). This is exactly what PvT was like here before Stork's innovation.

[image loading]


By this time the Protoss players had worked out a system for this map; fast expand into another main and 2gas carrier to victory. In turn, Boxer decided on a 2rax double scout build to counter the expansion (ala Goodfriend) which forced Pusan back into the old 815 style. It was an interesting issue and the balance was very much even. It was very easy for the Terran to slip up now and lose the plot, but it was equally easy for the Protoss to screw up and die. 815 basically came down to the protoss getting a gas expo early, or not getting a gas expo early.

[image loading]


Anytime vs Iloveoov Game 4
Anytime decided to play a one off build, dual robo reaver. This risk payed off and the reavers (pictued above) proceeded to destroy just about everything oov had. While it was a very risky build, it was innovative at the same time. It expanded the PvT build horizon showing that other, more island style, builds were possible.

[image loading]


Iloveoov vs Pusan
Pusan opted for a 1gate robo build, obviously his favored 815 build (having used it 3 times), this time the game was lost due to bad scarab ai, having it cost him almost 12 scvs. The validity of this build obviously depends on the reaver harass, whether it is successful enough or not. It needed to kill enough SCV to get an economic advantage which the Protoss could ride into a gas expansion or two then tech carrier and proceed to win. But sadly, for the third time this build failed.

[image loading]


Boxer vs Anytime Game 2
Anytime used an almost identical strat to his game against oov. Using 3shuttles and heavy reavers he was able to kill way too much stuff, forcing boxer to conceed. The game showed that there were 2 viable options on this map; the fast expand build and the reaver build.

Conclusion

I for one loved 815 as a map, even though Pusan lost on it haha. The balance of the map is really quite even. The protoss can rely on 2 main ways to play the map; heavy reaver or fast expansion - both ending up with carriers in the end game. Terran on the other hand had a couple of responses; 2 rax, fast CC to island and quick golliaths. At the end of the day no strat was a instant win, each relied on how well the opponent reacted and dealt with the game; it definitely wasn't an easy map to play. Both races were playing on a knife edge the whole time, one fuck up and you're down for the count.

815 was replaced by the heavily protoss favoured 815 III; which basically removed the fast island expo for the terran. But i will always remember 815 (1.0) as a great map with interesting and exciting (and very unusal) games, of which many have been forgotten. Now they have a place to be somewhat relived, and 815's legend is scribed down at long last.

Plexa

****
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
trollbone
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
France1905 Posts
February 03 2008 17:40 GMT
#2
BC one a PvT !!! <3
XCetron
Profile Joined November 2006
5226 Posts
February 03 2008 17:58 GMT
#3
great read as usual, thx man.
Narrator
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States868 Posts
February 03 2008 19:04 GMT
#4
Interesting. I feel like playing 815 now.
SpiritoftheTunA
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States20903 Posts
February 03 2008 19:42 GMT
#5
whoooo goodfriend
posting on liquid sites in current year
EvilTeletubby
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
Baltimore, USA22260 Posts
February 03 2008 20:52 GMT
#6
Nice read Plexa. Personally, 815 (all variations) is probably one of my all-time favorite maps, only because of the large number of epic games it produced, PvT and otherwise. I think few maps in recent history left their mark on the scene like this bad boy did.
Moderatorhttp://carbonleaf.yuku.com/topic/408/t/So-I-proposed-at-a-Carbon-Leaf-concert.html ***** RIP Geoff
ShaLLoW[baY]
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada12499 Posts
February 03 2008 23:49 GMT
#7
Wow that Stork vs Nada game is epic, massive recalls + clutch EMP's <3
ALEXISONFIRE ARE FUCKING BACK (sAviOr for life)
Manifesto7
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
Osaka27174 Posts
February 04 2008 00:00 GMT
#8
This is best blog on TL, and this was my favorite post in that blog. Great work.
ModeratorGodfather
AnWh
Profile Joined April 2004
Sweden220 Posts
February 29 2008 16:40 GMT
#9
what an awesome post. stumbled upon this randomly and i have to say it was one of my best reading experiences on this site. very interesting subject and very well written. good job man!
FieryBalrog
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States1381 Posts
March 05 2008 02:05 GMT
#10
Excellent read man, love it.
I will eat you alive
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