Hey well ive got a problem with winning on iccup....its like any time i try to play straight up i get outplayed or cheesed in the matchups or i make some stupid mistakes, i play python all the time on iccup to. Can you guys suggest any strategies/builds for P that i could try in each of the matchups that are not really standard, e.g. 4 gate etc...

YPang

United States4024 Posts

January 23 2008 01:23 GMT

python is a real hard map to do anything out of the ordinary, just dt everygame

IntoTheWow

is awesome32281 Posts

January 23 2008 01:23 GMT

Just play really careful on ICCup. I send lots of scouts scv on Iccup when TvPing for example. And even when I do, sometimes i can catch proxy tech. I don't expo as fast as I do in pubbies because they always try shit stuff like dt rush with mass suicide to take down the expo turret or something like that.

Just play really really careful, scout scout.

fanatacist

10319 Posts

January 23 2008 02:41 GMT

Check the strategy section, perhaps? 4 gate for PvZ is risky, stupid in every other MU. I like doing 1 gate robo reaver against P and T, it usually hurts them a lot. I also like doing 2 gate +1 with 1 port sair then robo vs Zerg.

ff7legend

United States213 Posts

January 23 2008 02:48 GMT

For PvT a strat i have found useful to me and may not work on higher levels but alot of T's cant handle it is to go 10/12 gate zlot rush make ur gas after ur 5th Zlot then tech to Dt's,Robo, or expo. if the T does not block chances are he wont be able to micro good enuf to stop this, if he does then u can proceed to tech as normal. I know you may consider this cheese but it works.

For PvZ im not sure if u FE on Python but imo its hard and i usually do better with 2 gate into tech. Talk to me on Vent and i will show some reps of Nony who is good at the 2 gate.

I am noob so i may not be the best person to answer

fanatacist

10319 Posts

January 23 2008 02:55 GMT

On January 23 2008 11:48 ff7legend wrote:
For PvT a strat i have found useful to me and may not work on higher levels but alot of T's cant handle it is to go 10/12 gate zlot rush make ur gas after ur 5th Zlot then tech to Dt's,Robo, or expo. if the T does not block chances are he wont be able to micro good enuf to stop this, if he does then u can proceed to tech as normal. I know you may consider this cheese but it works.

For PvZ im not sure if u FE on Python but imo its hard and i usually do better with 2 gate into tech. Talk to me on Vent and i will show some reps of Nony who is good at the 2 gate.

I am noob so i may not be the best person to answer

I don't remember the last T I played on ICCup that didn't block on Python in PvT. Pretty bad condition, and it gets owned by 1 marine 1 scv and then first tank or vult easy. By then they will realize you went early Z and therefore will predict your templar tech.

PvZ FE is pretty safe in my opinion.

InFiNitY[pG]

Germany3474 Posts

January 23 2008 03:23 GMT

in PvP there are just too many possible builds. On a map with long distances you can go for 12nex and just straight mass goon/obs (switch from zeals to goons depending on what he's doing of course). Most lower tier protosses won't really know how to counter it.

PvZ fast exp to 3gate +1 speedzeal rush or 4gate speedzeal rush should work well

PvT I found a very good build to use is goon rush to DT rush.
Stop making probes at 15 supply, get a second gate, when you have 3 goons attack and start citadel at the same time. After the 4th goon keep making probes while waiting for your archives to finish, take your expo and get your first 2 dts out. Usually you can pressure him long enough with your 4 initial goons to keep him busy until your dts arrive at his choke. I have used this about 10 times now and none of my opponents had a turret up by the time my DTs arrived. If he does, try a 2zeal 2dt drop into his main. Depending on how much damage you've done, you can either take a 2nd expansion or just pump out templar/goon/zeal off 2 bases for a while.

BalloonFight

United States2007 Posts

January 23 2008 03:43 GMT

Agreed with Infinity's PvT build.

For PvZ I usually prefer to do a 2 gate build. Either 9/10 at choke, or even 9/9 with 2 probes with your first zealot. It usually does VERY well vs almost any build a z does except 9 pool which in my experience is quite rare on iccup. Versus a 12 hatch Z, with proper micro you'll generally either win, or come out with a nice advantage. Another PvZ build you can try is if you like you FE, if the Z is across map. You can make a couple cannons to kill the scouting drone, then instead of Nexus, proxy a pylon and 3 gates somewhere random. Then wait until 3 zealots pop and rally to the Z. Obviously this only works across map as the OL will take time to scout you're not FEing.

For PvT you could also try a hidden DT build. Goon, upgrade air weapons, hide dt tech at one of the other mains. Kill the scout scv cancel air weapons, then DT / Expo etc.

iNcontroL

USA29055 Posts

January 23 2008 05:02 GMT

the protoss on ICCUP dont know how to defend 9pool speed -.-
I am almost B- and like 2 protoss have reacted correctly lol

Jonoman92

United States9110 Posts

January 23 2008 05:08 GMT

#10

If you're going to 2 gate rush I would suggest doing a proxy 9/10 gate because if the 10/12 gate fails you'll probably lose anyway so might as well do a hardcore rush.

I haven't tried it on python but it can be done, although walling on python is pretty common. I did the 9/10 proxy on gaia twice (where wall seems less common) and won on it both times (not with the initial zeals, but shortly thereafter with zeal/goon) at C and C+ rank.

fusionsdf

Canada15390 Posts

January 23 2008 05:20 GMT

#11

12 nex pvp?

thats super risky, since most lowlevel players 2 gate pvp

Ilikestarcraft

Korea (South)17743 Posts

January 23 2008 06:34 GMT

#12

Cheesing wont get you better though. Im 10-15 on iccup because of stuff like allin lings and just suiciding my units. And there was a point where i got so pissed i was thinking of all ining myself but i dont have fun winning with luck and theres no point of iccuping if im gonna cheese. Its frustating getting dt dropped/dted every tvp game i play but it pays off when you improve and have fun. So play standard jand ust dont blindly expo. Play more safer, scout more. Like honestly i know a lot of people on tl hate macro games but i love them to death even when i lose.

fanatacist

10319 Posts

January 23 2008 17:06 GMT

#13

On January 23 2008 15:34 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
Cheesing wont get you better though. Im 10-15 on iccup because of stuff like allin lings and just suiciding my units. And there was a point where i got so pissed i was thinking of all ining myself but i dont have fun winning with luck and theres no point of iccuping if im gonna cheese. Its frustating getting dt dropped/dted every tvp game i play but it pays off when you improve and have fun. So play standard jand ust dont blindly expo. Play more safer, scout more. Like honestly i know a lot of people on tl hate macro games but i love them to death even when i lose.

That's stupid advice, using your 10-15 as proof of why cheesing is not worth doing. Just because you can't pull it off doesn't mean it's not a valid strategy. There's rare occassions when you win purely on luck - in fact, it almost never happens. Cheese is a huge part of this game and if you are good at late game but suck at cheese or anti-cheese, there's really no point in trying to master anything further. Sure it's frustrating/gay, but it's as viable a build as any in this flexible game.

InFiNitY[pG]

Germany3474 Posts

January 24 2008 00:48 GMT

#14

On January 23 2008 14:20 fusionsdf wrote:
12 nex pvp?

thats super risky, since most lowlevel players 2 gate pvp

on a map like longinus with 12nex 12gate 13gate your zeals will pop out by the time his arrives at your base. Unless you completely mismicro your probes you will be ahead in economy.