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I did my 4th live cast today on the Bisu vs Hwaisin match up which went really well, except for one incident which ended up getting blown up out of all proportion and resulting in lots and lots of drama. Anyways I'm going to try and relate the events as accurately as I can and my own thoughts and opinions on the issue as well as after the issue.
Please note - for those who have NOT YET SEEN THE GAMES, this may SPOIL them for you so watch the vods first before reading this post!
+ Show Spoiler +
Anyway the controversy happend in game 3 and game 4. It was on Loki - Game 3. Hwasin blocked his ramp with supply depot and an scv while a second scv was building a barracks behind it. The idea was to stop bisu from scouting his base because he was going for a Bio &SCV rush. But Bisu managed to scv hop his probe into hswains main and managed to scout it. Needless to say Hwasin lost the game.
I felt that this was unfair and unjust. Because a player who builds a wall at their ramp should not then have another player be able to get throguh and jump it the way bisu did and this remark I did make. The real controversy however occured at the end of game 4, probably one of the best games I've ever seen in a long time when Hwasin survived a cheese rush by bIsu and countered and managed to win. I was completely overwhelemed by the intensity of it and let my feelings be obviously known.
I felt that justice had been done, that Bisu had unfairly won the previous game that he had "cheated" and that because of that I felt it was only fair that Hwaisin win, because being someone who is strongly opinionated I cannot abide by what I feel is obvious injustice.
A couple of people took exception to this and said it was not my place to give an opinion, that I should concentrate only on reported what was going on and my commentary was like "fox news." Others defended me and said I was entitled to my own opinion and was justified in airing it. It turned into a big drama with lots of insulting things said both ways ( don't have screenies sorry).
Obviously it was Klazart the starcraft fan who loves the game passionately and not Klazart the commentator speaking. But where do you draw the line? Where does one stop and the other begin? As a commentator must I give up my passion as a fan or restrain it? and if so to what extent.
My own opinion is as follows. When someone cheats or something unfair happens in any sport commentators often remark on it, and on their opinion of it. Commentators even go further than that, for example in Ireland when I'm watching football the RTE commentators often talk about how over rated Christiano Ronaldo is and that he isn't a "great" player etc. When they see drogba diving they go on about how disgraceful that is and how it ruins the game. In the same way I felt that Bisu's probe hop was disgraceful and ruined the game.
I'm not going to debate about whether or not it really was cheating. I think that is largely irrelevant to this discussion. The issue is whether or not it is right that I expressed my opinion on the subject.
I feel that I was entitled to give my opinion on the issue of cheating. However, I also feel that I did get overwhelmed by the passion of the situation and went overboard later on in expression my joy when Hwasin won game 4, and that I should have refrained from that. And that I should appologise for that outburst.
I do note though that not many people complained when I called "justin" mediocre etc vs Reach. People seemed happy to see him bashed. Obviously the people unhappy about my coments today were primarily Bisu fans but regardless of that I feel they raised a valid point.
So how far is it okay to go? I certainly do STRIVE to be as neutral as possible, but sometimes as a starcraft fan I cannot help myself.
I ask you all therefore... how much opinion is okay? if any and how much is too much?
 
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Belgium8305 Posts
it's just shoutcasting dude, you can say whatever the hell you want
it's not like you owe anyone anything
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I think you can say what you want too, the most important thing is to be entertaining. But I don't agree that the probe hop was wrong. Blocking your base isn't a god given right. Starcraft is full of examples of players exploiting game mechanics to do what would otherwise be impossible. Stacking mutas to kill large numbers of marines and dronedrilling are other examples.
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Say whatever the fuck you want - more fun for you, more entertainment for us.
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I totally agree with the above posts. You are not a professional commentator, you are not obligated to be unbiased. You are free to say what you want, and anyone who doesn't like it is free to not listen.
I personally think that saying Bisu cheated isn't true at all, but that doesn't change the fact that you are entitled to express your opinion. It also doesn't change the fact that your commentaries and shoutcasts are awesome 
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Don't change anything, klaz. You won't be able to please everyone. Some people want strategic discussion in their commentaries, some people want mad screaming of the unit names in action. It brings more content to the commentary when you have a villain and a hero.
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8327 Posts
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Your emotional outburst was way over the top. You can voice your opinion and comment about what you like about some player and what not but please do not cross the line.
Its not that you critized Bisu its the fact how you actually were SCREAMING about him being a CHEATER (its not your call to make. Kespa didnt do anything about it) and that he DESERVED to lose that 4th match. Wtf?? Personal opinion is ok as long as its used cautionsly. That was just an outrage of personal bias. Its like saying \"I hope he loses because I dont like his face!\".
I really hope you get this under control because I enjoyed your commentaries so far. Apparently you have been trying to improve your casting lately (less cursing, better audio) so this is something to keep in mind too.
About that Probe jump: All the pros are using it on maps like Monty Hall (and some games are even decided by that) its just too bad for Hawsin as it pretty much owned his built (but still he didnt cancel that 2nd rax lol). Arguing about this is like arguing about Lurker hold. Its allowed, deal with it.
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On June 21 2007 07:31 Senix wrote:
Your emotional outburst was way over the top. You can voice your opinion and comment about what you like about some player and what not but please do not cross the line.
Its not that you critized Bisu its the fact how you actually were SCREAMING about him being a CHEATER (its not your call to make. Kespa didnt do anything about it) and that he DESERVED to lose that 4th match. Wtf?? Personal opinion is ok as long as its used cautionsly. That was just an outrage of personal bias. Its like saying \"I hope he loses because I dont like his face!\".
I really hope you get this under control because I enjoyed your commentaries so far. Apparently you have been trying to improve your casting lately (less cursing, better audio) so this is something to keep in mind too.
About that Probe jump: All the pros are using it on maps like Monty Hall (and some games are even decided by that) its just too bad for Hawsin as it pretty much owned his built (but still he didnt cancel that 2nd rax lol). Arguing about this is like arguing about Lurker hold. Its allowed, deal with it.
As I figured when reading your post klaz, and as this person confirmed, the people that bitch about what you do probably didn't have a problem with your casting, but with your opinion. However it is easier to take a cheap shot at your casting abilities than to try to stand up for what they believe in. You are a good shout caster/commentator. You should do what works for you and what you have done to get to where you are.
If people don't like your opinion then put them on the air and let us see how we agree with them. Regardless of all, don't change a thing, keep up the good work and have fun
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Physician
United States4145 Posts
One of the main jobs of a commentator is to be the voice of the crowds, when possible, fair but far from neutral. He should strive to win the crowd approval i.e. be in tone with the majority sentiment, which is dam hard without feedback of a real crowd.
a comentator job should include:
~ magnify crowd sentiments thus bringing memorable moments
~ entertain without distracting the crowds from the game itself
~ make sure the crowds understand moments of excellence by highlighting them
~ educate the crowd in game rules and the game itself (can be done only if there is deep knowledge and it does not distract from the game itself)
So how far is it okay to go?
In summary, as far as you need too, as far as you can get away with it without turning the crowd against you..
Just my 2 cents on your question. Hope it helps.
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There are no problems in saying that the probe hop was lame, nobody wants a plank of wood for a commentator anyway.
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Klaz your commentaries rock, and a little opinion is not only understandable, it is needed.
I doubt that Bisu cheated though. It didn't seem intentional that his probe got through - in fact he later stated that he was just attacking Hwasin's scvs, causing his SCV to jump through, and I somehow believe that.
So even though I disagree with you, I still believe you are entitled to an opinion, be it when you are commentating, posting or anything else.
KUTGW!
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Less opinion > more opinion. Opinion > no opinion. You are going to have to navigate between those two ;-).
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I recently started live streaming as well, and from my short experience with it I can tell that it is one of the most important things that you show some kind of emotion and passion for the thing itself.
I didn't listen to it and I don't know if and how much you went overboard with it, but passion is never a bad thing to show, unless your name is Carlodajin.
As always the main point is you're doing something for the community which you are not getting paid for, and thus you should not take criticism from people that never do anything for the community at all too seriously.
If people don't like your way of casting, they should
a) find someone who does the same thing but better
b) do it better themselves
c) shut the hell up
You are entitled to an opinion, just make sure it does not fuck up the overall image of your cast too much. Opinion should not equal bias.
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I agree with most of the statements above. It's great to hear what you think about what's happening, and not just about what's happening. However, I do think you went a bit overboard on this one. I personally wasn't offended, but calling Bisu a 'cheater' is a bit more personal than saying what he did was lame or whatever.
Think about it this way: would you say what you said to Bisu's face? If not, hold it in for a bit--talk about it on your blog if you need to. I'm not saying you need to dance around your opinions like a fairy, just that you may need to take a second to relax if you feel yourself getting so passionate (about something negative) in the future.
Keep kicking ass Klaz. My friends and I love your commentaries. You'll get a feel for what's cool and what's not with time.
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meh u need another guy commenting these vod's with you.. ;D you're doing great.. ^^
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