• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:48
CET 20:48
KST 04:48
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros3[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting10[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win42025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales!9BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION1Crank Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams10Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest4
StarCraft 2
General
Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" DreamHack Open 2013 revealed Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win
Tourneys
Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest Crank Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams 2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship $3,500 WardiTV Korean Royale S4
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment
Brood War
General
SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Ladder Map Matchup Stats BW General Discussion
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [ASL20] Grand Finals The Casual Games of the Week Thread BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION
Strategy
Current Meta How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Big Programming Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The Schizophrenia of KOR-EN…
Peanutsc
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
The Benefits Of Limited Comm…
TrAiDoS
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1744 users

Goodbye SC2

Blogs > Jarven
Post a Reply
Jarven
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Sweden16 Posts
January 23 2016 17:03 GMT
#1
You don’t know what you have until you don’t have it any more.

This is my first and most likely my last blog on TL. It´s funny, my interest in SC2 peaked in 2012 but I find myself writing this blog in 2016. By now I literally never play and almost never watch the game anymore.

I can remember watching Naniwa being crushed by Leenock at 3 am on a Sunday morning. I remember watching HuK nail biting win over Moon at Dreamhack. Nestea beating mass Thors with mass banelings in the GSL. Stephano winning NASL 3, IPL 3 and everything else. Snute qualifying for IEM Schenze. The list goes on and on.

Reading TL and Liquidoedia was a part of my daily life. Watching the GSL was sometimes the highlight of my day. A weekend with a good SC2 tournament was a weekend a happily spent in my room. Day9, Husky, State of the Game, IdrA, MLG, Dreamhack are all things that really shaped my life for a couple of years.

Even as my passion slowly decreased during the last couple of years, I still enjoyed watching a tournament now and then. I never spent my whole weekend watching a tournament like I had done in 2012. IEM, WCS and Dreamhack all had amazing production and the highest level of SC2. I never really loved SoS, Innovation and Zest they way I used to worship Nestea, MVP and DRG but watching SC2 was still fun.
That changed today.

I was really happy whan I realized Dreamhack Leipzig would be this weekend. A 50 000 $ SC2 tournament still makes my heart beat a little bit faster.

Then I looked at the player list.

I don’t want to be rude and disrespectful to all the players who attend. They are all really talented and amazing at SC2. But they are not the best. When I watch DH Leipzig I feel like I watch a minor league, a division 2. PitDrogo vs TLO in the quarterfinals is quite bleak compared to HuyN vs Rain. ShowTime vs uThermal compared to Leenock vs Reality. Still I want to emphasize that I have the greatest respect for all the foreign players, they are all really dedicated and talented individuals. But they are still not the best.

I admit that I myself used to wish for more foreign only events. I thought that it would be awesome to see the likes of Naniwa, Huk, TLO and Snute win big tournaments. Now I´m glad that it didn’t happen. DH Lepzig is nowhere as amazing as DH Open Stockholm in 2015 even if a foreigner ends up winning the whole thing.

Thorzains DH victory wouldn’t have been the same thing if he played uThermal instead of Polt in the final. If MLG Orlando would have been without Koreans Huk´s victory wouldn’t have been the same. Naniwa´s four second places are more exiting compared to if I would have won four tournaments with only foreigners.

Watching the very best players is what makes a tournament exiting. It´s ironic that I would realize it this way but I guess that’s life.

You don’t know what you have until you don’t have it any more.

Jarven


***
y0su
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Finland7871 Posts
January 23 2016 17:29 GMT
#2
what is it that's gone?
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada16891 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-23 17:35:02
January 23 2016 17:34 GMT
#3
Koreans playing Foriegners in various large scale live events due to the new WCS rules?
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Cele
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Germany4016 Posts
January 23 2016 18:02 GMT
#4
On January 24 2016 02:03 Jarven wrote:

I don’t want to be rude and disrespectful to all the players who attend. They are all really talented and amazing at SC2. But they are not the best. When I watch DH Leipzig I feel like I watch a minor league, a division 2. PitDrogo vs TLO in the quarterfinals is quite bleak compared to HuyN vs Rain. ShowTime vs uThermal compared to Leenock vs Reality. Still I want to emphasize that I have the greatest respect for all the foreign players, they are all really dedicated and talented individuals. But they are still not the best.



wow i don't know half of these foreigners (having not followed sc2 a lot in Lotv admittedly). Sounds really.. dull in comparison yeah.
Broodwar for life!
JWD[9]
Profile Blog Joined November 2015
364 Posts
January 23 2016 18:23 GMT
#5
You miss out on the best GSL evarrr. All those koreans forced back into a local scene that got oversaturated with all that foreigner money, the level is higher than ever...sadly at a time of a questionable tvp state.

And yeah...the dreamhack you see right now, should be the one we watched when wings of liberty came out. Those are people that survived despite having to compete with people coming from a 10 times more developed infrastructure, even though some did it by being marketable or grinding out smaller online cups.

Now there will be a chance for a foreign scene to develope, it might takes too long for people used to actual good starcraft to reexperience these grassroots, espacially if they went through it once( or twice if you followed BW), but all these players look very beatable, for an aspiring foreigner, this must be as attractive as that one WCS where Rotti almost qualified using proxy tempest builds...
y0su
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Finland7871 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-23 18:34:26
January 23 2016 18:31 GMT
#6
On January 24 2016 02:34 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Koreans playing Foriegners in various large scale live events due to the new WCS rules?

but he said:
Watching the very best players is what makes a tournament exiting.

If foreigners are indeed "division 2 players" then wouldn't watching them vs "division 1 Koreans" just be stomps instead of exciting play?

Or is the issue that there aren't any "division 1 foreigners" anymore?

JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada16891 Posts
January 23 2016 18:51 GMT
#7
can you please make another blog post letting us know when you're coming back to SC2?
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
joshie0808
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada1024 Posts
January 23 2016 18:52 GMT
#8
Actually, the level of play at DH is quite good, and the games are entertaining, i was pleasantly surprised
Jarven
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Sweden16 Posts
January 23 2016 20:46 GMT
#9
On January 24 2016 03:51 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
can you please make another blog post letting us know when you're coming back to SC2?


Can´t say if you´re positive or ironic but I guess I´m just happy that I get any comments at all.
Rucho
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States124 Posts
January 23 2016 22:11 GMT
#10
Why not just watch korean sc2? I never watch foreigner content and I can barely keep up on the korean scene.
antes los dollares eran bonitos, pero ahorra dollares ni ay
cutler
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany609 Posts
January 23 2016 22:25 GMT
#11
Stay with us and play some games of sc2! You know you want it ;-)
Calt
Profile Joined September 2011
Finland1140 Posts
January 23 2016 23:32 GMT
#12
I don't see what your reason to quit watching exactly is? When Proleague gets running we'll most likely have around 4-5 five days of Korean Starcraft 2 running for months again. If you don't want to watch foreigners then don't, that shouldn't take anything away from the best of the best who are still playing each other in Korea for your entertainment. If GSL was really so great that it was the highlight of your day, why isn't it now? I enjoyed watching it last week just as much as I have had for the last 5 years.

Sounds to me more like your problem of not wanting to watch Starcraft is somewhere else than in whatever format DH uses even though you write as if it is the reason for you to say "Good bye SC2".
Maru | MMA | Ryung | MKP | NaDa | BoxeR | FOREVER SLAYERS
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44984 Posts
January 24 2016 00:40 GMT
#13
On January 24 2016 02:29 y0su wrote:
what is it that's gone?


His passion, obviously
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
radscorpion9
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada2252 Posts
January 24 2016 01:13 GMT
#14
Time to move on to the hundreds of new and exciting games coming out each day! It won't be that bad
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17921 Posts
January 24 2016 23:55 GMT
#15
Not a big surprise, people leave every day, onward to better games my friend!
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
Djzapz
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada10681 Posts
January 25 2016 02:46 GMT
#16
On January 24 2016 09:40 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2016 02:29 y0su wrote:
what is it that's gone?


His passion, obviously

I'm watching you bro.
"My incompetence with power tools had been increasing exponentially over the course of 20 years spent inhaling experimental oven cleaners"
Deathstar
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
9150 Posts
January 25 2016 06:01 GMT
#17
rest in peace
rip passion
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 13m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
UpATreeSC 229
mouzHeroMarine 215
IndyStarCraft 150
White-Ra 140
ProTech98
Codebar 70
MindelVK 19
StarCraft: Brood War
Barracks 4087
Dewaltoss 163
Dota 2
qojqva3692
Dendi1245
capcasts78
Counter-Strike
ScreaM1380
pashabiceps329
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu224
KnowMe72
Other Games
Gorgc3426
Grubby1745
FrodaN1205
B2W.Neo1029
Beastyqt1012
fl0m736
ceh9375
C9.Mang0120
Fuzer 107
ArmadaUGS102
mouzStarbuck69
QueenE55
Trikslyr45
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 11
• intothetv
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• IndyKCrew
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix18
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21056
• WagamamaTV277
League of Legends
• Nemesis3932
• TFBlade745
Other Games
• imaqtpie1071
• Shiphtur153
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
3h 13m
BASILISK vs Shopify Rebellion
Team Liquid vs Team Falcon
Replay Cast
13h 13m
WardiTV Invitational
16h 13m
ByuN vs Spirit
herO vs Solar
MaNa vs Gerald
Rogue vs GuMiho
Epic.LAN
16h 13m
CrankTV Team League
17h 13m
BASILISK vs Team Liquid
Epic.LAN
1d 16h
BSL Team A[vengers]
1d 18h
Dewalt vs Shine
UltrA vs ZeLoT
BSL 21
1d 23h
BSL Team A[vengers]
2 days
Cross vs Motive
Sziky vs HiyA
BSL 21
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
WardiTV TLMC #15
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
BSL 21 Team A
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
CranK Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.