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This won't be like my other blogs since those take way too long to write and I don't want to be too bias in my analysis of DAC. I'm simply going to point out positives and negatives about what happened at DAC.
This piece will not be about how good the tournament is overall, or the hype, the games or w/e. I will simply be mentioning specific things that are good or bad and that's it.
Honestly though after watching PPD's video I was like god damn that's a really positive out look and it made me not want to write this but then I remember how mad everyone was including Charlie Yang so LETs GOo.
Positives:
1. Living Space
The hotel and the area surrounding the hotel was optimal. There was a mall right next to the hotel with lots of really good food so western players had options. The hotel was really nice with a good breakfast. DAC also provided reimbursements for any laundry done by the teams. A very similar experience to TI. This is really good because it really helps to give players a relaxing stay when they are away from their homes for a long period of time (2 weeks i think?).
2. Staff to help us
Every team plus their managers were picked up at the airport. In general anything that helps us be less stressed out in a different country is nice. All foreign teams had a legit paid for translator with them which was never the case in China and its really helpful. The previous times I went to China as I explained in my blog, the translators were all voluteers who knew 0 english and basically everyone team just relied on Xiituzi except Alliance because Kelly Milkies speaks Mandarin.
3. The existence of MarsTV Mali
So there was this one white dude who I don't even think is that high up doing a bunch of shit for teams. He was pushing my chair to my play area half the time woOO. He helped organize a practice area for teams that arrived early to play (Secret/C9). In general if you needed any help you just go ask Mali who looked super stressed out and sweaty the entire event. At one point I felt bad but I was like fuck it I'm asking Mali for help anyway.
4. Ability to Adapt and make Decisions
This was amazing to me, it's very rare for a tournament to adjust things based on what players ask for while the tournament has already begun. There was a lot of adjustments that were made based on complaints by many players/managers (aka me ^_^). Will the adaptations where based on negatives so I'll be going over what happened later on. In general the staff were nice so when there are issues we could discuss it and they could help, the problem is that when they do help you can start seeing the inexperience and poor understanding of dota.
5. $
Everything was covered. Our flights, hotels, laundry and other shit. We were given food money. There was some problems later on in the tournament that EG/C9 solved with $$$$ and PW plans to reimburse us for it so yay. I'll be going over this in the negatives.
Alright the fun part Negatives
1. Practice/Play Area
So as I've said in some interviews the first 2 play days the chairs in both the practice area and the actual tournament area had no arm rests. Now I can understand not having that many decent chairs for the practice area with so many computers but not having it for the tournament is unacceptable. After the first 2 days they brought in DXRACERS so it was fine then though.
After seeing the chairs at the practice area I got worried so I asked the staff whether they would be using those hotel dinner chairs for the actual event in which they told me no. But as I've said in my blog, I've developed little faith in tournament staff so I ended up asking more staff till I realized everyone had a different answer. This is how I ended up deciding to just ask Mali every time because hes a man we can rely on :D... Anyway EG and C9 ended up buying desk chairs for all 10 players at Ikea and Conrad/Charlie built ALL our chairs Wow. We thought that the players would just be investing in increasing their chances to do well. After hearing that we did this PW said they would reimburse us so that's pretty legit.
Another problem was the size of the monitors were different from room to room. The practice area had these huge new technology curved monitors that were weird. The play rooms would have different monitors in some some rooms versus others but they usually weren't the bent shape.
Some rooms were just better to play in because of how the desks were positioned. Basically the play rooms were a bunch of desks put side by side. In some rooms the monitor would be centered at where two ends of the desks would meet. This meant that you would have two desk legs blocking the players legs. Some rooms didn't have any problems with this where as other rooms would have 2 players pretty fucked.
The smoking area was literally at the only entrance of the practice room. And it seems like people in China smoke a lot so there would be A LOT of smoke in the practice area. The smoking area after a few days was moved to a different area but it was still really close to the entrance.
A combination of all these problems made it so that I personally didn't play more than 2 pubs a day. I would just sit in my room looking at picks because if I hang around the practice area too much I would start having periodic small coughs. Plus I didn't feel like stressing out my arms for such a long tournament with no arm rests and practicing on curved monitors didn't really warm you up for the different monitors in the play room.
2. Schedule
The tournament had some interesting rules at first (told to us in a meeting the day before the tournament) such as coach being able to participate in draft and other shit. But due to Charlie Yang going crazy, some rules were changed. Charlie what a guy. Anyway I feel like rules should be given to teams way earlier than this, especially if its with rules that aren't present in any other tournament.
The schedule of the group stages or the main event weren't told to us till the day before hand. This made it really hard for teams to optimize their sleeping schedule. We were actually told that the shuttle to the main event was 7:30-8 am (i forgot) to the main event when everyone tried to sleep in to like 9-11 for the group stage games that didn't start till at least 12 (if your the first game) because games went to 2 am on the first day. I actually don't understand how they made their schedule last minute. Things got even more fucked up because each main event day would start at a different time and they refused to give us the schedule till the FINAL GAME OF EACH DAY was finished being played. This meant that when the schedule would be released some teams were already sleeping. What the fuck?
A few teams had days where they would start at noon and play their last match at mid night. This isn't really something that's been done before in any tournament but tournament organizers should really take some time to optimize their schedule to make it as low stress and possible for the teams. I don't feel like it should be that hard and it should be a priority. Vici Gaming who was jet lagged going to The Summit started the day with their game and also ended the day. These things are actually so easily avoidable if organizers just spent a bit more time to do some tedious work. Fata wanted to vent his frustrations to the admins (and I went along for fun) and basically the Admins were laughing and saying why are you complaining there are a few other teams getting fucked also. I just don't understand how you can justify one team getting fucked by another team also getting fucked its ridiculous. And they always say that the players job to play the games and deal with it. And its their fucking job to have a proper schedule for their tournament. Why should the players have to take responsibility for the fuck ups for the organizers. Anyway I'm not sure what happened that night but after more pressure from multiple teams and with our boy Mali doing some shit, the matches at 12 am were moved to the final day yay. Honestly though its rare for a tournament to change things for the better during it, and this happened many times this event so props to that.
3. Staff Incompetence
It honestly hurts me to say this because I feel like the staff were nice, but there was definitely a lack of competence in handling many things. In general the admins in the play rooms were sleeping through the games so when there are lag issues or w/e we have to wake them up then they go from this drowsy to panicky state.
Of course rooms would be hosted with the wrong team having FP then both teams would all leave and it would take a good 10-15 minutes to host the next lobby because no body paying attention.
I still get that same issue I've talked about in all other Chinese lans. I don't understand why in the coin toss they always ask the enemy team what they want (heads or tails) then they look at me and ask me the same fucking thing. When we both say we want heads they get so confused. At one point it goes from being cute to being infuriating.
We asked the admins to install Teamspeak 3 on the main stage computers and they said they would do it. Then we realized that it wasn't downloaded and we had to set it up ourselves which took 5-10 minutes which was our warm up time. We were then told to join the lobby or have penalty time for picks. I actually started raging at the admin there and we ended up getting some practice time. Then there ended up being even more delays because HGT didn't know they were suppose to be put on sound cancelling headsets for some reason. The booths weren't well made so things could still be heard. Big God didn't put on their sound cancelling head sets properly and for some reason the admins didn't notice or care.
During one of the games we had massive lag and some other issues so we wanted a new saved lobby. It literally took us like 30 minutes to rehost the lobby. Someone actually had to be on a phone call with the host to teach them how to host a saved lobby.
4. Format
I feel like with the amount of days in this tournament, a better format could have been made. The group stages didn't really matter as long as you were top 8. I feel like more thought could have been put into this so that the top 2 or even top 4 had different benefits. Perhaps they could have skipped a round which would free up some time for the lower bracket to have BO3s instead of BO1S which is super awful. You should never be eliminated from a tournament of this caliber from a BO1 that's a joke.
5. Game Hosting
Well I already talked about this a lot but I'm just adding some more information in that everyone was complaining about. The passwords used for the event were being evolved everyday. At first it was too simple so they changed the PW to something absolutely ridiculous like DASDdafsadfAEs. Then there would be problems where lobbies needed a rehost due to the wrong team having FP or w/e. First the game would take forever to be rehosted but when it did get rehosted they would start randomly so some casters like Starladder has said just missed out on being in the lobby. Eventually the PWs got changed to something more understanding.
In general I felt throughout the entire event that the organizers were inexperienced. I felt like a lot of these issues could have been solved if the organizers actually respected the opinions of the players or went to more experienced people for help. The players did give them a list of things we wanted and I feel like it was ignored (such as monitors being the same size, and chairs having arm rests). Well I really liked the idea behind DAC and it was overall a really successful event and I want more of these. So hopefully next time it will be even better.
I wrote this blog in like 30minutes which is infinitely less time than my other blogs so hopefully it doesn't suck. .-.
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Nice I always enjoy your blogs
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Thanks for keeping us updated! Your writing is pretty good, I don't mind it compared to some other people.
I think raising awareness is pretty important in solving these problems, and even though you get shit for it I'm behind you.
がんばって！
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ganbatte
thanks for keeping this dead site alive btw
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
Thanks, always good to hear from the ones at the centre of it
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28088 Posts
Nice blog! Interesting to hear about some of these negatives. You'd think such a big money tournament would have things in order.
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On February 18 2015 09:20 EternaLEnVy wrote:
I still get that same issue I've talked about in all other Chinese lans. I don't understand why in the coin toss they always ask the enemy team what they want (heads or tails) then they look at me and ask me the same fucking thing. When we both say we want heads they get so confused. At one point it goes from being cute to being infuriating.
what the actual fuck
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Netherlands45349 Posts
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Anyway EG and C9 ended up buying desk chairs for all 10 players at Ikea and Conrad/Charlie built ALL our chairs Wow.
Literally like a dad
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This is pretty great feedback. Seems overall they did a good job but definitely some points of improvement that can be made.
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28088 Posts
Nice shoutout to Mali in my opinion. He deserves more credit for what he does!
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Seems like DAC was TI3's prize pool with TI1's level of management.
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Heads or tails?
Odds.
Heads or tails?
Scissors.
(Draws long straw)
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Jacky "I want armrests" Mao
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Charlie is amazing hahahaha
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Mali, the hidden savior of the Dota 2 scene?
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Heads or tails?
"Heads."
What about you guys?
"Heads."
OH GOD WHAT NOW?
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On February 18 2015 09:48 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote + Anyway EG and C9 ended up buying desk chairs for all 10 players at Ikea and Conrad/Charlie built ALL our chairs Wow. Literally like a dad
Reads like the script for a direct-to-streaming ESPORTS sequel to "The Mighty Ducks"
EG/Twitch/Amazon get on it
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Wow, Mali good guy fixing shit for the players, respect!
Ty for the blog EE-sama.
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Nice to hear player pov about these things, thought I heard something about arm rests and dac but didn't realise it was such a big deal. I can picture all weird hardware configurations/issues being quite distracting and frustrating for pro-players.
On February 18 2015 10:13 EternaLEnVy wrote:
I still get that same issue I've talked about in all other Chinese lans. I don't understand why in the coin toss they always ask the enemy team what they want (heads or tails) then they look at me and ask me the same fucking thing. When we both say we want heads they get so confused. At one point it goes from being cute to being infuriating.
That actually sounds sort of hilarious.
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Mali confirmed hero of DAC.
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Then there ended up being even more delays because HGT didn't know they were suppose to be put on sound cancelling headsets for some reason. The booths weren't well made so things could still be heard. Big God didn't put on their sound cancelling head sets properly and for some reason the admins didn't notice or care.
Uh oh. What's done is done though.
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This is pretty much an echo of what Funn1k said in his interview right after Na'Vi were knocked out. The points about poor scheduling and shitty practice areas in particular seem like something that should never be happening at a tournament of this scale..
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On February 18 2015 11:27 Salazarz wrote:
This is pretty much an echo of what Funn1k said in his interview right after Na'Vi were knocked out. The points about poor scheduling and shitty practice areas in particular seem like something that should never be happening at a tournament of this scale..
in china disorganized things can happen in all scales
there's a long way to go before it'll be organized like German ;p
simpmly put we never had industrial revolution and we hold no respect for procedures, it's a compleely different mindset
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Awesome to know all of this stuff. And it's good that Mali is getting credit, since I don't think anyone who didn't play at DAC would ever find out about him if it wasn't for your blog post.
Stil, I think you should add some sort of "ok, that's all the bad stuff I can think of right now. All in all it was a good tournament though. Shit happens everywhere. Congratz to organizers for the things they did right." It's two lines that turn you from a bitchy asshole into a guy who simply tells the truth, at least in the eyes of those who aren't very good at reading and get wrong impressions very easily.
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Wow, kinda sad that administrators don't even know how to play Dota. Did they not even have basic training?
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On February 18 2015 11:51 kblueriver wrote:
Stil, I think you should add some sort of "ok, that's all the bad stuff I can think of right now. All in all it was a good tournament though. Shit happens everywhere. Congratz to organizers for the things they did right." It's two lines that turn you from a bitchy asshole into a guy who simply tells the truth, at least in the eyes of those who aren't very good at reading and get wrong impressions very easily.
yeah we wouldn't want envy to inadvertently offend anyone, he's usually so political
On February 18 2015 11:56 meegrean wrote:
Wow, kinda sad that administrators don't even know how to play Dota. Did they not even have basic training?
are you surprised to learn that most of the people with money in eSports know absolutely nothing about the games they sponsor?
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i feel like valve should be more hands on with tournaments of this caliber. if they're gonna make like a TI in the east, you should have someone from valve in charge, not some person who is gonna half ass it. some of these things were so simple to not fuck up.
i feel that valve should be more like blizzard.
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Well for the planning thing, i don't think you can end up in a way nobody gets fucked. But that aside, that's good to see feedback like that on the tournament we watched. Mali MVP !
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Am I the only one finding it noteworthy that this is listed both on the spotlight and community news? Sure the post is very informative, but lacks quality. Like author himself said, it took him 30 minutes, so it could be way better. To make it news-worthy, one might ask opinions of other players at the tournament and gather a collaborative post about DAC.
Regarding Envys experience in China again: smoke at the entrance of the practice area, and thus inside it? Yikes, sounds really aweful. Hopefully this will NOT be a recurring thing.
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Big God didn't put on their sound cancelling head sets properly and for some reason the admins didn't notice or care.
WHAT?
WHAT???!
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Mali literally saving esports.
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I like your blogs EE.
You complain about retarded shit like a first time tournement organizer being inexperienced or chinese having a different work ethic. And when you request so much professionalism you should man up and take the discomfort like a pro and not a raging teenager.
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On February 18 2015 13:00 sorrowptoss wrote:Show nested quote +Big God didn't put on their sound cancelling head sets properly and for some reason the admins didn't notice or care. WHAT? WHAT???!
this was already pointed out when BG was playing rave in the lower brackets (i think?) but apparently DAC was ok with it
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All things considered, I'd say things were handled quite well relative to how you described all the other tournaments.
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so that's how Ikea man name calling came from.
Both of them seems like good managers.
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I still get that same issue I've talked about in all other Chinese lans. I don't understand why in the coin toss they always ask the enemy team what they want (heads or tails) then they look at me and ask me the same fucking thing. When we both say we want heads they get so confused. At one point it goes from being cute to being infuriating.
That sounds like what they're actually asking for is confirmation that you heard the other team's pick and are expecting the other side to go in your favor so there's no misunderstanding later on.
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Thanks for the insight EE. Regardless of what you write, the non-filter contributes to esports in ways you cannot imagine when everyone is more concerned about their reputation rather than making things work.
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My boy Envy! I agree about the format not mattering at all.
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thanks for the insight ee sama
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ehehehe, was right all along.
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EE is to DotA2 what ToD was to WC3, and that's a great thing. Keep those up. As someone who has been on the organizing side, those comments can be hurtful when you worked your ass off for many days but i understand why this has to be done.
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Russian Federation1132 Posts
Nice blog, thank you. I really desired what were the negative specifics since Funnik was blaming the shit out of this tournament.
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lol at the admins sleeping during the games and you had to wake them up.
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Osaka27148 Posts
To be honest, (and this may be a niche for someone to get into), tournaments could do with hiring a consultant that has been to all the major lans and has helped organize. The cost would be minimal compared to impact. I wonder if there is a qualified person, cough *mali* cough, that could do it.
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On February 18 2015 10:39 trifecta wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2015 09:48 goody153 wrote: Anyway EG and C9 ended up buying desk chairs for all 10 players at Ikea and Conrad/Charlie built ALL our chairs Wow. Literally like a dad Reads like the script for a direct-to-streaming ESPORTS sequel to "The Mighty Ducks" EG/Twitch/Amazon get on it
5 man push down mid, EE leading the way; "Oh my god its the flying V!"
I could see this happening.
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On February 18 2015 10:13 EternaLEnVy wrote:
At one point I felt bad but I was like fuck it I'm asking Mali for help anyway.
loool Envy has no chill. Interesting blog. It looks like it had a reasonable # of pluses which can't be said for some other events that happened as of late (D2L I'm looking at you)
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I know this isn't a huge deal but could an admin please remove the uncompleted open bracket from the title. Thanks.
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On February 18 2015 10:32 Gamut wrote:
Heads or tails?
"Heads."
What about you guys?
"Heads."
OH GOD WHAT NOW?
Flip a coin for who gets heads ^^
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Thank you for giving us a behind the scenes look
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Thanks for posting your insight EE!
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EE you are a master at analyzing LAN situations. KUDOS
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I still get that same issue I've talked about in all other Chinese lans. I don't understand why in the coin toss they always ask the enemy team what they want (heads or tails) then they look at me and ask me the same fucking thing. When we both say we want heads they get so confused.
no mercy from EE-sama
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All i see in this thread is EE complaining about everything.
Did any of you see PPD Vlog?
How come EG feel way better about the tournament the organisation and everything PPD said completely contradicts what EE is saying..
Oh well i guess you can never please EE because lets face it he doesn't know him self what he wants.
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Holy shit Charlie, what a man!
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
Motherfucking chairs without armrests
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On February 19 2015 10:17 drusalnik wrote:
All i see in this thread is EE complaining about everything.
Did any of you see PPD Vlog?
How come EG feel way better about the tournament the organisation and everything PPD said completely contradicts what EE is saying..
Oh well i guess you can never please EE because lets face it he doesn't know him self what he wants.
How is he complaining about everything, he pointed out a plenty of good stuff
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On February 20 2015 21:06 FliedLice wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2015 10:17 drusalnik wrote:
All i see in this thread is EE complaining about everything.
Did any of you see PPD Vlog?
How come EG feel way better about the tournament the organisation and everything PPD said completely contradicts what EE is saying..
Oh well i guess you can never please EE because lets face it he doesn't know him self what he wants. How is he complaining about everything, he pointed out a plenty of good stuff
Regardless of the actual words EE uses, he is literally a whiny fucktard in all circumstances full stop. I read three words into the OP and knew it would be a list of 69 criticisms with the most obtuse reasons. Kick EE win TI-86.
User was warned for this post
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Russian Federation4447 Posts
Who cares if they are obtuse reasons?
A lot of players share the same complaints, putting it out there improves the scene.
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On February 18 2015 12:02 zev318 wrote:
i feel like valve should be more hands on with tournaments of this caliber. if they're gonna make like a TI in the east, you should have someone from valve in charge, not some person who is gonna half ass it. some of these things were so simple to not fuck up.
i feel that valve should be more like blizzard.
STRONGLY disagree. Do you mean Riot? Cause I disagree with that, too
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Just saw and read this, all I could imagine was charlie yang with a megaphone yelling at people and Mali growing extra arms to do all the stuff at once.
Nice blog tho
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EPT
