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WCS AM Lack of Viewers - Page 6

Blogs > salle
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jax1492
Profile Joined November 2009
United States1632 Posts
June 08 2013 01:21 GMT
#101
I love watching kespa Koreans but its all so bland .... i am watching off and on, but i really would love to see foreigners or flash.
vult
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United States9400 Posts
June 08 2013 03:47 GMT
#102
The fact that WCS AM was the only WCS region to not have a live audience kind of killed it for me. There was only two general camera shots: the players at their computers and the casters in the studio, and sometimes shots of the skylines and of the player room during downtime. It felt like it was really artificial and bland, and it turned me off to watching for the most part besides the foreigners and HerO/Ryung playing. WCS EU and KR do it right by having spectators, and even in the small ESL studio where there was a crowd, but it improved the atmosphere significantly. Even if the WCS AM studio had spectators for the top 8 on, I am sure they could pull viewers from the area in and retain online viewers. Hell, I would have drove down from northern Connecticut to NYC to see some of the WCS, because God knows that MLG has had a ton of "arenas" and other events in NYC but push away live spectators, which frankly saddens me as a northeasterner not being able to attend ANY events.
I used to play random, but for you I play very specifically.
Dagobert
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Netherlands1858 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-08 09:12:22
June 08 2013 09:12 GMT
#103
If we wanted to watch the best StarCraft, we'd watch an improved automaton2000 botmatch. We don't.
In fact, I switched from watching SC2 to playing/watching Dota2 because HotS doesn't interest me at all.
Masq
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada1792 Posts
June 08 2013 09:49 GMT
#104
The issue is the dominance of koreans over americans. People want to watch players that can at least semi relate to/ have some personality. With so much SC to be watched, why would you ever watch WCS over GSL?

Foreigners vs Koreans is interesting; Koreans vs Koreans is just another lower quality production of GSL.
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
June 08 2013 10:01 GMT
#105
I'm a bit late to the party but I just wanted to mention your numbers in the OP for WCS AM are slightly off, the real number is 51k. This is right after HerO won game 6.

+ Show Spoiler [Proof] +
[image loading]
vol_
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia1608 Posts
June 08 2013 21:14 GMT
#106
EU finals started around 6am for me. I couldnt wait to watch them and stayed up all night. I started watching from ro16 and ESL ran an amazing tournament with real quality production and casters. They also had fans cheering and watching live and the whole tournament had a great vibe.
AM was quite the opposite, I only caught a few games when I had nothing else to watch and it just didnt get me excited to watch the final because it was going to be more of the same boring set with casters I dont enjoy listening to.
I skipped through the finals for AM on VOD a few days later and was quite unimpressed. The only reason I bothered watching was because I wanted to see HerO play Revival.
Jaedong gives me a deep resonance.
LastDance
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
New Zealand510 Posts
June 09 2013 10:55 GMT
#107
On June 05 2013 18:02 Plexa wrote:
I half-heartedly watched the finals. Not that I have any issue with Korean domination its just that I didn't really care for the players that made it through. Unfortunately, players like Ryung, Revival, Alicia and Alive aren't particularly interesting to me. There hasn't been enough PR around these players to make them people I care about yet, WCS EU had it a lot easier in this regard but I still felt like the hype around these players was sorely lacking. This isn't even a comment about whether they're skilled or not, it's purely that there wasn't a storyline or anything interesting about the tournament (compounded by all the problems plaguing the tournament).

If that lineup had been Hyun, Jaedong, Hero, Polt in the top 4 I feel like the viewership would have been a lot higher.


I totally agree with Plexa.
Neoto
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom19 Posts
June 09 2013 19:21 GMT
#108
I really enjoyed wcs america. I thought the production quality was good and I became accustomed to axslav and axeltoss as casters. The downtime between games could have been handled better... maybe they could show a montage of cool battles in wcs so far or something equally interesting instead of the same clip of new york rolling by... I would have watched a lot more, but the time difference means I couldn't; gotta go sleep so I can wake up in time for work the next day! I'm a viewer from the uk btw.
Djzapz
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada10681 Posts
June 09 2013 19:38 GMT
#109
I went to bed after MvP vs. Innovation which I had running on my computer but I wasn't really watching it. The sad thing is that I was excited for MvP's games.

The 2 players just tossing medivacs with hellbats at their opponent over and over and over until someone has a marked advantage and wins 10 minutes later just is incredibly boring. Not even Tastosis, IMO the best casting duo, can't make that kind of TvT interesting to watch. SCVs running, SCVs running, lucky drop -> win.

Also there was like a 2 hour pause between the semis and the finals... Come on.
"My incompetence with power tools had been increasing exponentially over the course of 20 years spent inhaling experimental oven cleaners"
sixfour
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
England11061 Posts
June 09 2013 20:58 GMT
#110
There was an American qualifier?
p: stats, horang2, free, jangbi z: soulkey, zero, shine, hydra t: leta, hiya, sea
salle
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Sweden5554 Posts
June 10 2013 08:10 GMT
#111
On June 10 2013 04:38 Djzapz wrote:
I went to bed after MvP vs. Innovation which I had running on my computer but I wasn't really watching it. The sad thing is that I was excited for MvP's games.

The 2 players just tossing medivacs with hellbats at their opponent over and over and over until someone has a marked advantage and wins 10 minutes later just is incredibly boring. Not even Tastosis, IMO the best casting duo, can't make that kind of TvT interesting to watch. SCVs running, SCVs running, lucky drop -> win.

Also there was like a 2 hour pause between the semis and the finals... Come on.

Uhm wrong finals.
Administrator"Ambitious but rubbish!" - Jeremy Clarkson
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-10 13:17:54
June 10 2013 13:14 GMT
#112
On June 08 2013 18:49 Masq wrote:
The issue is the dominance of koreans over americans. People want to watch players that can at least semi relate to/ have some personality. With so much SC to be watched, why would you ever watch WCS over GSL?

Foreigners vs Koreans is interesting; Koreans vs Koreans is just another lower quality production of GSL.


Foreigners versus Koreans is interesting? How so? Most of the time they're getting trounced.

On June 10 2013 04:38 Djzapz wrote:
I went to bed after MvP vs. Innovation which I had running on my computer but I wasn't really watching it. The sad thing is that I was excited for MvP's games.

The 2 players just tossing medivacs with hellbats at their opponent over and over and over until someone has a marked advantage and wins 10 minutes later just is incredibly boring. Not even Tastosis, IMO the best casting duo, can't make that kind of TvT interesting to watch. SCVs running, SCVs running, lucky drop -> win.

Also there was like a 2 hour pause between the semis and the finals... Come on.


This sounds bitter. I guess you didn't like it when MVP lost the final game. On the bright side, it went way passed that point several times. Unlucky break? I don't know man. That seems like a forced error in my book. Innovation was trying to catch those scvs out of place.
Drake
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany6146 Posts
June 11 2013 09:39 GMT
#113
1. timezone, cant be at times where no eu can watch it (sure its nice for americans but sadly europe can be watched by BOTH so america has to do them earlier if they want europeans watch it)
2. koreans only IS an issue, i not watched as soon as all foreigns was out
3. casters/Settings (they have not the class of europe)
Nb.Drake / CoL_Drake / Original Joined TL.net Tuesday, 15th of March 2005
opisska
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Poland8852 Posts
June 11 2013 13:53 GMT
#114
I did watch it (only the grand finals though) mainly because I wanted to see HerO and cheer for Liquid (in that sense, HerO is works as of a foreigner) and actually it being a PvZ was somewhat atractive as I haven't seen a big lot of good PvZ in HoTS yet. The time was stupid but at least I was just in Portugal, where the time is one hour closer to U.S. than in Czech Republic, so it was bearable. As I said many times, I don't really care too much for the glitter around, so the lack of audience did not bother me. I don't really like the casters but that is just personal preference and they were not mute-level bad.

In my opinion, the problem of the whole WCS system is that it all climaxes very fast. When choosing SC2 to watch at a given moment, I have a tendency to pick tournaments that are in the latest stage, because that increases the possibility of good games as compared to early rounds/prliminaries or whatever (not to say they are only good finals and bad Ro32s, but on average and not including GSL finals, this works pretty well) - but with WCS, there were FOUR big finals within like three weeks. That was just too much for a short time.
"Jeez, that's far from ideal." - Serral, the king of mild trashtalk
TL+ Member
Djzapz
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada10681 Posts
June 12 2013 01:29 GMT
#115
On June 10 2013 17:10 salle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 10 2013 04:38 Djzapz wrote:
I went to bed after MvP vs. Innovation which I had running on my computer but I wasn't really watching it. The sad thing is that I was excited for MvP's games.

The 2 players just tossing medivacs with hellbats at their opponent over and over and over until someone has a marked advantage and wins 10 minutes later just is incredibly boring. Not even Tastosis, IMO the best casting duo, can't make that kind of TvT interesting to watch. SCVs running, SCVs running, lucky drop -> win.

Also there was like a 2 hour pause between the semis and the finals... Come on.

Uhm wrong finals.

I think I posted in the wrong thread. I'm still angry with TvT in general ;(
"My incompetence with power tools had been increasing exponentially over the course of 20 years spent inhaling experimental oven cleaners"
BreAKerTV
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Taiwan1658 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-12 04:53:29
June 12 2013 04:52 GMT
#116
I must respectfully disagree with the OP on all ends.

"Hometown heroes" make or break an event. If I stream Sen playing a bunch of Code S Koreans with myself speaking butchered Mandarin to cast the event and get 2600 viewers all at once, then that means anyone is willing to go to great lengths to see their own nation's players fighting for their survival in the tournament. The fact that there were no Americans in the end did not shake any hardcore fans of the GSL or largely Korean-dominated SC2 events, but deterred any chance of increasing American viewership. Evidence for this?

Let me find me casting the Pride of Taiwan in butchered mandarin and present some figures...

http://www.twitch.tv/enders116/b/339023066 - three hours ten minutes. I have 2600 viewers because Taiwanese people want to watch their symbol of national sc2 pride (sen) compete.
Retired caster / streamer "BingeHD". Digital Nomad.
salle
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Sweden5554 Posts
June 12 2013 09:37 GMT
#117
On June 12 2013 13:52 Enders116 wrote:
I must respectfully disagree with the OP on all ends.

"Hometown heroes" make or break an event. If I stream Sen playing a bunch of Code S Koreans with myself speaking butchered Mandarin to cast the event and get 2600 viewers all at once, then that means anyone is willing to go to great lengths to see their own nation's players fighting for their survival in the tournament. The fact that there were no Americans in the end did not shake any hardcore fans of the GSL or largely Korean-dominated SC2 events, but deterred any chance of increasing American viewership. Evidence for this?

Let me find me casting the Pride of Taiwan in butchered mandarin and present some figures...

http://www.twitch.tv/enders116/b/339023066 - three hours ten minutes. I have 2600 viewers because Taiwanese people want to watch their symbol of national sc2 pride (sen) compete.

You're missing my points then. I'm assuming that the time you were broadcasting the games were not in the middle of the night, but rather some time in the middle of the day?

Obviously the fan favourite players (based on the fan base also) matters. But a huge part of why there were so few people watching WCS America was due to a number of factors and not just one. These factors are rather universal for getting a big number of viewers:
  • Who the players are
  • What is on the line for the game
  • How good the production is
  • When the game is being played

If you look at any of the big LAN tournaments of recent years you'd know that a lot of them have had much higher viewership figures with players on the same fan favourite level as the ones in WCS America's final.
If you had had the most favourited players around people will still not tune in if the production bores them too much.
Another thing to consider is the general acceptance of the tournament by the fans.
This is a point I guess I haven't really brought up but it is worth mentioning.
In general there are people who dislike WCS just because it is rather over complicated. Others because it's out-muscled NASL from daily SC2 league. Others because of the rules of allowing Non-American residents to participate in an "American" tournament (ie the rule on principle not the defacto players that did come into the finals). Then there are those who disliked MLGs handling of qualifiers etc.
The last one is the only one that really makes any big difference on the European to American viewership numbers. Which is what we were discussing. Because it does remove a lot of variables when trying to analyze the number of concurrent viewers.
Administrator"Ambitious but rubbish!" - Jeremy Clarkson
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
June 12 2013 11:06 GMT
#118
Didn't watch the finals for either mostly just because I didn't really care about any of the players.
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
Gofarman
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada646 Posts
June 13 2013 17:13 GMT
#119
I <3 Bitterdam
Axslav and axeltoss are sub-par.

WCS NA without NA players.
Bobnoble
Profile Joined October 2011
Luxembourg52 Posts
June 13 2013 18:36 GMT
#120
To me it were the casters. Sorry, but Axlav and especially Axeltoss are unwatchable to me.

I don't think the nationality of the player lineup was the problem or at least not the core of the problem as stated by the OP. I mean most of the koreans were on NA teams and everybody loves LiquidHero.
But let's assume the casters were fine, a matter of taste I suppose, the nail in the coffin to me was the fact that WCS EU did by far the better job at... well, everything. + Show Spoiler +
especially MC trolling Apollo during analysis was priceless xDDD
The bar was risen very high and it couldn't be reached by MLG.

But again, to me just the casters.
Favorite caster: ST Legend
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