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Active: 3623 users

My Second Year With Liquipedia

Blogs > salle
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salle
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Sweden5554 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-21 06:08:57
April 20 2013 11:24 GMT
#1

[image loading]

Foreword


Unlike my first blog, this one is very late, around half a year to be honest. But I’ve had other things going on in my life and other priorities than underlining my own brilliance in poorly written prose.


My Second Year With Liquipedia


The second year had me starting as a one of five active Liquipedia staff members, and it ended as me as Head of Liquipedia with about 10 active staff members, a Red Name on TeamLiquid and as part time employee for TeamLiquid. This was not something I had expected when my second year started, the 1st of November, 2011.


Templates


My second year started with me working on a new template project. I had thought that making links across tables would be a great idea, especially when the brackets were huge and spanned multiple pages, such as MLG. Where it was nigh-on impossible to follow a single player from the open bracket to the championship bracket. Or to sometimes even find where a player started. So I went through a huge list of bracket templates and added anchors. Making it possible to link together a upper bracket with a position in a lower bracket, at the cost of adding an arrow in the bracket.


This template has since fallen into disuse, it is still used on the GSL pages to help with the drop downs. Perhaps it has almost disappeared due to having to add so many additional variables.


The number of different template projects I worked on sank this year though, the biggest one was probably the one where we changed how we do the team template.


Optimization


One problem we have on Liquipedia is our reliance on templates to do a lot of repetitive tasks much much simpler for us. For example instead of writing out the file link and team name with links each time we have a template called Team to do this for us, where we just have to write {{Team|tl}} and we get the nice icon and text. However this template is pretty big, and it was also used on a lot of pages multiple times, when it was used. One of the bad things with Media Wiki’s parser is how it handles multiple uses of templates (or transclusions).


When you have a page that uses two template calls of {{team|tl}} firstly it does not cache this because it uses a variable so it will parse the template twice. and when I say parse I mean it opens up the page Template:Team and puts in tl as the variable 1 and executes the page. In the old system this mean it did checked if tl would be the same as another value an average of 100 times, (checking a if two pieces of text match each other is one form of a function call.) So for this page I would make on average 200 function calls just because I wanted to not have to put in the file link and text by hand.


So to fix this issue I first started to make a template system that checks the initial letter of the variable (this costs 2 function calls) and then it checks only the teams that uses that initial letter so at most it went through 29 initial letters and then usually a list of less than 20 subsequent variables to a maximum of 35 function calls. All the initials and team variables were sorted on how often they were used on the wiki, to make the template as optimal as it could be. This did indeed make some difference. Now the average was about 14 function calls per time you used the template, but that means for our hypothetical page it still did 28 function calls. And for a common use page where the template were used up to a 100 times, often with many duplicates of the same variable it meant it was still far from being optimized.


The solution is to actually not use variables, and instead to just use sub pages, so that {{Team/tl}} gives the user what they want. Because this then needs to be further defined because there were other variables someone could use, for example to only have the image, or have a shortened name form or have the image on the right side of the text rather than the left. We had to make a huge family of templates all with sub pages of all the teams. This was one of the largest undertakings and luckily I did not do this by myself. And most of that credit goes to shz, pPingu, blahz0r, miwi, and Noam.


Collaboration


If you decide to contribute to a wiki, where there are other people contributing, you are forced to in some way collaborate with those people. This you can do more or less actively and be more and less cognizant of this fact. For me this has always been the great part of the wiki, getting to work together with other people.


In early February 2012 we launched the Liquipedia Contributor forum. A sub forum on TL where only people who are "contributors" of the wiki can get access. To be counted as a contributor you have to have earned a Silver Coin. This forum has indeed led to a lot of great collaborations between people, and made making huge improvements to the wiki much easier.


However I was hesitant about making this kind of forum though. For me I anticipated that this would render the discussion pages on the wiki less useful since less people would be using them. And while sadly this became the case, the benefit from the increased interaction between contributors far outweighs the negative aspects.


For example the +maps addition to group match tables was a great addition and showed just how fast a lot of people could give input and help out solve a problem. This process was outlined in one of our newsposts so if you want to read more about that just go here.


We’ve also had a lot of discussions about policies for example about which tournaments should be counted as premier, how to deal with players changing IDs, and a 100 other things.


Launching A New Wiki


So one of the biggest things happening during the second year was the development of our Dota 2 wiki. The first I heard of the Dota 2 wiki was Heyoka asking me during the winter what my thoughts were on how viable it would be for Liquipedia to start doing a Dota 2 wiki. I wasn’t too sure about this but giving it some thought I started to realize that it wasn’t just doable but we could actually offer something to the Dota 2 community that it was lacking. I also realized that even though we’d have to redo a lot of templates to suit the needs of Dota 2 that wasn’t such a big hurdle and that most of the stuff we’d need for a wiki of any kind that involved eSports or tournaments, we already had. I might have underestimated this a little bit though, there were indeed a huge need for templates to be made specifically for the new wiki, to suit its special needs.


Then it got quiet for a few months before Heyoka came back and asked me what we’d need to start doing the wikis, I said we’d need to set up the actual Media Wiki installations, and we got that a few days later. However Bumblebee had already started to try to create a tournament page for Dota 2 on Liquipedia 2, and it looked pretty okay. We got some people who were interested in doing work on the wiki and who were into Dota 2 to help out making a lot of the elements, templates and layouts for the different pages—miwi, JBright, blahz0r, Heyoka, and Bumblebee are the ones I recall from the top of my head. We tried to get a few key pages up to as high standard as we could, so when people were making new pages of that type they would kind of know where to put things.


About three weeks before The International 2 we kicked everything into overdrive, because TL as a whole would be revealing the Dota 2 expansions for TL about one week prior to the event. I remember for example working quite hastily trying to do the changes to the skin for Dota 2 so there would be a clear difference between the two wikis. So if you don’t like the colour choice for Liquipedia - Dota 2 then you know who to blame. And even though the wiki started out fairly empty, rather quickly a lot of new people rallied in to help it out and it started to quite rapidly take shape.


Management


Since I had joined the Liquipedia staff the person in charge of this section had always been Aesop. He’s a really cool guy, even though he’s German Hungarian. However he had become more and more busy with other things as his studies and family life took more and more of his time. Eventually he resigned and in so doing Liquipedia needed a new "Head". I was asked and after some days of contemplation, and asking Aesop what this would entail I accepted the position. The transition went pretty smooth though. As some of the things I already knew how to do.


Later that summer, about 2 years after I registered on TL and right before we launched the Dota 2 Liquipedia, HotBid approached me asking some questions about the amount of time I put into the wiki and if then eventually asked if I wanted to work part time with it, but pointing out the part time job would only be for managing the wiki, not actually editing it. I said I had to think it over cause I wanted to just go “Yes yes yes!” right away but I didn’t want to commit to something I couldn’t keep up, so spending like a day to really think it through I then came back with a positive reply.


Copyright


So one of the least talked about issues within the esports community is copyright infringements. They happen all the time, I think the most common one is music on streams, but that’s an issue for twitch. For Liquipedia the issue is mostly about images.


Our contributor itsjustatank, who himself is a photographer, brought up this issue and has worked really hard to get people to provide the copyright and licensing information, improving the file info template and making sure it was used for as many of the pictures as possible. This also was the start of a pretty huge undertaking where a lot of contributors and staff members started sending out requests to organizations for the right to use their copyrighted material on Liquipedia. We still don’t always get it right. Eventually we have deleted nearly 1000 images from the wiki due to unknown copyright status or known copyright status without permission to use. This was probably the most complicated thing for me as the Head of Liquipedia to manage, because it’s easy to pat people on the back saying “Thanks for this contribution!”, it’s much much harder to say “Hey, thanks for trying but you did something really bad so now we’re going to unmake all of your work, kkthxbai.” as the second one really demotivates people to contribute, no matter how softly and carefully you phrase it.


So if you’re an owner of images on Liquipedia and they are accredited wrongly or you have never given your permission to let them be used on Liquipedia feel free to contact me or anyone else on staff. If you are a photographer or owner of image copyrights and would like to allow Liquipedia to use your material, we’d love to hear from you too.


To Round Off


So this is some of the stuff that happened during my second year with Liquipedia, it was quite a huge ride, and so many unexpected things happened. During TSL3 we started getting a huge influx of people starting to contribute to the StarCraft II Liquipedia. My goal for this third year is to make the same thing happen for Dota 2. The visiting stats is starting to take off for it so I’m getting more and more confident it is going to happen, and really soon.
I also had the pleasure to meet some of the Liquipedia contributors in person this year, like miwi, Epoxide, fusefuse (thanks for the work on the logo), shz, and Andytb.
Finally I want to thank everyone I have had the pleasure to work together with, I only got to name a few of the people but there are so many more that deserves credit for their contributions to the wikis. Thank you.

+


****
Administrator"Ambitious but rubbish!" - Jeremy Clarkson
kollin
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United Kingdom8380 Posts
April 20 2013 11:28 GMT
#2
CTRL F'd my name. Not mentioned. 1/5

+ Show Spoiler +
<3 u salle, keep being awesome
Grovbolle
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Denmark3813 Posts
April 20 2013 11:37 GMT
#3
LP is awesome and everyone contributing is awesome, I have a question though, with our time in the sun being now and the aligulac 25x25 icon being present in player links, is there a way for me and a few others who are likely going to be the ones to submit those links to not spam you guys with "update" requests?
Lies, damned lies and statistics: http://aligulac.com
salle
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Sweden5554 Posts
April 20 2013 11:39 GMT
#4
On April 20 2013 20:37 Grovbolle wrote:
LP is awesome and everyone contributing is awesome, I have a question though, with our time in the sun being now and the aligulac 25x25 icon being present in player links, is there a way for me and a few others who are likely going to be the ones to submit those links to not spam you guys with "update" requests?

Nope. But single thing reviews are so easy to do. You check the code and check to see that it looks okay on the page.. if the reviewer is super diligent they might even check if the link actually works and goes to the right player, but that does seem like a lot of extra work.
So just go ahead and update.
Administrator"Ambitious but rubbish!" - Jeremy Clarkson
Grovbolle
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Denmark3813 Posts
April 20 2013 11:42 GMT
#5
On April 20 2013 20:39 salle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2013 20:37 Grovbolle wrote:
LP is awesome and everyone contributing is awesome, I have a question though, with our time in the sun being now and the aligulac 25x25 icon being present in player links, is there a way for me and a few others who are likely going to be the ones to submit those links to not spam you guys with "update" requests?

Nope. But single thing reviews are so easy to do. You check the code and check to see that it looks okay on the page.. if the reviewer is super diligent they might even check if the link actually works and goes to the right player, but that does seem like a lot of extra work.
So just go ahead and update.

As soon as my bachelors thesis is done I will get cracking. Only a couple of thousand pages :D
Lies, damned lies and statistics: http://aligulac.com
pPingu
Profile Joined September 2011
Switzerland2892 Posts
April 20 2013 11:50 GMT
#6
On April 20 2013 20:28 kollin wrote:
CTRL F'd my name. Not mentioned. 1/5

+ Show Spoiler +
<3 u salle, keep being awesome


Kollin not mentioned, 5/5
kollin
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United Kingdom8380 Posts
April 20 2013 11:53 GMT
#7
On April 20 2013 20:50 pPingu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2013 20:28 kollin wrote:
CTRL F'd my name. Not mentioned. 1/5

+ Show Spoiler +
<3 u salle, keep being awesome


Kollin not mentioned, 5/5


so bm
shz
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Germany2687 Posts
April 20 2013 12:14 GMT
#8
Yay! Keep being awesome, Erik. Hope we'll see us at DHS. To more years of LP to come.
Liquipedia
tili
Profile Joined July 2012
United States1332 Posts
April 20 2013 13:44 GMT
#9
I never thought about the music on streams, but, yea.... that is technically copyright infringement.

Thanks for the update, you have a truly special experience being a paid staff for TL
Dubzex
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6994 Posts
April 20 2013 15:11 GMT
#10
On April 20 2013 20:28 kollin wrote:
CTRL F'd my name. Not mentioned. 1/5

+ Show Spoiler +
<3 u salle, keep being awesome

5/5
"DONT UNDERESTIMATE MY CARRY OR YOU WILL BE CARRIED INTO THE ABYSS OF SUFFERING" - Tyler 'TC' Cook
salle
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Sweden5554 Posts
April 20 2013 15:13 GMT
#11
Banner image added thanks to fusefuse. I should make some more blogs so I can use this stylesheet that I made more often.
Administrator"Ambitious but rubbish!" - Jeremy Clarkson
JBright
Profile Joined September 2010
Vancouver14381 Posts
April 20 2013 15:23 GMT
#12
[image loading]

Oh you. <3
ModeratorThe good and the wise lead quiet lives. Neo's #1 Frenemy and nightmare.
marttorn
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Norway5211 Posts
April 20 2013 17:25 GMT
#13
ctrl-f'ed kollin, ctrl-f'ed marttorn, ctrl-f'ed illuminati and ctrl-f'ed NWO and nothing came up. a definite five out of five stars from me.
memes are a dish best served dank
PolskaGora
Profile Joined May 2011
United States547 Posts
April 20 2013 18:38 GMT
#14
I feel weird for breaking the series of light-hearted playful responses with one more serious, but w/e. Salle, I've never said this to you (I don't think), but you are my inspiration on TL. Not kidding. When I started contributing, I didn't really plan on making it more than a one time thing. But your willingness to help and infinite patience blew my mind, and it made me feel that I could be part of something great. I have never had more pleasure working with anyone, IRL or not. You are singlehandedly responsible for anything I have done and will do for this amazing website. IMO, you are TL's greatest asset.

+ Show Spoiler +
The following song summarizes the way I, and probably the rest of contributors, feel.



+ Show Spoiler [After you've listened] +

No, I didn't choose the song because of the name, even though it's true. When the melodies all come together, that uplifting feeling you get perfectly describes what you mean to the LP community. You hold it up, keep it connected and working smoothly. What's that? You think I'm just being overly exaggerated and overrating your worth to us? Well let me tell you a story. There was once a time in IRC when you disconnected, and hadn't reconnected for something like 2 full days. Not seeing that familiar and comforting salle[afk] was unnerving not just for me, because everyone was always asking where you were. When you reconnected, even Heyoka mentioned to you something along the lines of 'Your minions couldn't stand you not being here'. See? That's how much you mean to us.


Anyway sorry for the badly written post, I tried reviewing it as much as I could but it still seems pretty terrible. Hopefully some of my message got across though, despite how badly I worded it, or maybe I over did it and made it sound like a marriage proposal. Whatever. Also, no homo
Tracking treasure down
pPingu
Profile Joined September 2011
Switzerland2892 Posts
April 20 2013 19:53 GMT
#15
On April 21 2013 03:38 PolskaGora wrote:
I feel weird for breaking the series of light-hearted playful responses with one more serious, but w/e. Salle, I've never said this to you (I don't think), but you are my inspiration on TL. Not kidding. When I started contributing, I didn't really plan on making it more than a one time thing. But your willingness to help and infinite patience blew my mind, and it made me feel that I could be part of something great. I have never had more pleasure working with anyone, IRL or not. You are singlehandedly responsible for anything I have done and will do for this amazing website. IMO, you are TL's greatest asset.

+ Show Spoiler +
The following song summarizes the way I, and probably the rest of contributors, feel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpMx2WLq3zU

+ Show Spoiler [After you've listened] +

No, I didn't choose the song because of the name, even though it's true. When the melodies all come together, that uplifting feeling you get perfectly describes what you mean to the LP community. You hold it up, keep it connected and working smoothly. What's that? You think I'm just being overly exaggerated and overrating your worth to us? Well let me tell you a story. There was once a time in IRC when you disconnected, and hadn't reconnected for something like 2 full days. Not seeing that familiar and comforting salle[afk] was unnerving not just for me, because everyone was always asking where you were. When you reconnected, even Heyoka mentioned to you something along the lines of 'Your minions couldn't stand you not being here'. See? That's how much you mean to us.


Anyway sorry for the badly written post, I tried reviewing it as much as I could but it still seems pretty terrible. Hopefully some of my message got across though, despite how badly I worded it, or maybe I over did it and made it sound like a marriage proposal. Whatever. Also, no homo


Wait I thought I was your inspiration ;;

Also why the fuck are you not on irc
salle
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Sweden5554 Posts
April 20 2013 20:18 GMT
#16
On April 21 2013 03:38 PolskaGora wrote:
I feel weird for breaking the series of light-hearted playful responses with one more serious, but w/e. Salle, I've never said this to you (I don't think), but you are my inspiration on TL. Not kidding. When I started contributing, I didn't really plan on making it more than a one time thing. But your willingness to help and infinite patience blew my mind, and it made me feel that I could be part of something great. I have never had more pleasure working with anyone, IRL or not. You are singlehandedly responsible for anything I have done and will do for this amazing website. IMO, you are TL's greatest asset.

+ Show Spoiler +
The following song summarizes the way I, and probably the rest of contributors, feel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpMx2WLq3zU

+ Show Spoiler [After you've listened] +

No, I didn't choose the song because of the name, even though it's true. When the melodies all come together, that uplifting feeling you get perfectly describes what you mean to the LP community. You hold it up, keep it connected and working smoothly. What's that? You think I'm just being overly exaggerated and overrating your worth to us? Well let me tell you a story. There was once a time in IRC when you disconnected, and hadn't reconnected for something like 2 full days. Not seeing that familiar and comforting salle[afk] was unnerving not just for me, because everyone was always asking where you were. When you reconnected, even Heyoka mentioned to you something along the lines of 'Your minions couldn't stand you not being here'. See? That's how much you mean to us.


Anyway sorry for the badly written post, I tried reviewing it as much as I could but it still seems pretty terrible. Hopefully some of my message got across though, despite how badly I worded it, or maybe I over did it and made it sound like a marriage proposal. Whatever. Also, no homo


Haha. Thank you Polska :3
And yeah I remember it cause it was like 2 weeks ago, my mother's 70ieth birthday... I just had neglected telling anyone I was going away... or that I was gonna turn off my computer so it could do all the windows updates and stuff it wanted to do. *smiles* ahh the memories

Yeah I wonder if I'll mentioned the failed news portal in my blog of my third year... but then it will be a blog mentioning kollin.... not too sure about that.
Administrator"Ambitious but rubbish!" - Jeremy Clarkson
kollin
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United Kingdom8380 Posts
April 20 2013 20:24 GMT
#17
Blame waxangel for that, recognising I was an extreme talent and snatching me away to the writers/
]343[
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States10328 Posts
April 20 2013 21:46 GMT
#18
<3 salle
Writer
yokohama
Profile Joined February 2005
United States1116 Posts
April 20 2013 23:23 GMT
#19
Definitely a motivating blog :D I even went back and read your first one too, since I had never seen that one. I've recently started trying to contribute to Liquipedia little by little, and I'm really enjoying it. Hopefully soon I can learn the more intensive stuff :D Thanks for all the work you put into it~
Aesop
Profile Joined October 2007
Hungary11305 Posts
April 21 2013 12:15 GMT
#20


Cheers to you, keep up the great work.
ModeratorNon veritas sed auctoritas facit legem. | Liquipedia: Don't ask me, I'm retired.
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33571 Posts
April 21 2013 14:33 GMT
#21
you need to intersperse your blog with funny images

you're swedish, I thought you were all good at that!
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
salle
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Sweden5554 Posts
April 21 2013 19:55 GMT
#22
I actually asked fuse to make some illustrations but then I realized that it would just delay it even more. I'll do better next time to break up the wall of text with some nice images.
Administrator"Ambitious but rubbish!" - Jeremy Clarkson
AntiLegend
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany247 Posts
April 22 2013 20:54 GMT
#23
Congratulations, good job!

I only had a relatively short stint actively editing lp (around the time the pages for korean bw tournaments were created/updated), but it were good times. Especially programming templates

This was one of my latest creations (and for some reasons used on a tournament page, even though it's only in my User page); I wonder how many function calls it produces.
Wintex
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Norway16838 Posts
April 25 2013 17:56 GMT
#24
Meeting you at Dreamhack Winter 12 was extremely awesome (I was the Norwegian with the camera) and so was reading this blog. Gonna read the first one soon.

You are the God of the #1 information site of the E-sports SCBW, SC2 and DotA2. Must feel awesome. Fighting!
The Bomber boy
salle
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Sweden5554 Posts
April 25 2013 18:16 GMT
#25
On April 26 2013 02:56 Wintex wrote:
Meeting you at Dreamhack Winter 12 was extremely awesome (I was the Norwegian with the camera) and so was reading this blog. Gonna read the first one soon.

You are the God of the #1 information site of the E-sports SCBW, SC2 and DotA2. Must feel awesome. Fighting!

Haha thanks and hey. =)

I wouldn't call myself god though... not even close but I do like being a vital part of this project since the scope is so cool and trying to make it flourish even more is something I really would like to see happen, because I think it helps grow the community and the industry a lot.
Administrator"Ambitious but rubbish!" - Jeremy Clarkson
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