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The Atheism+ Movement and Privilege - Page 2

Blogs > Blazinghand
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zalz
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Netherlands3704 Posts
August 28 2012 20:26 GMT
#21
I feel like Atheism is being welded onto something to which it has no connection.

How does the absence of a god lead to all humans being equal? How does the absence of a god make homosexuals equal to hetrosexuals? For the record, I believe in these things, but I do not derive them from the notion that there is no god.

Sure, religion in general lashes out at the idea that homosexuals are equal, but removing that religious belief leaves you in a neutral place. You can't use the absence of god to prove that all people are equal.

In fact, by the absence of a creator and his divine mandate of equality, we are left with a very materialistic view, and the facts speak for themselves. Not all people are equal. Some people are slower than me, some people are stronger than me, but there are even people who are weaker, slower, and less intelligent than me. There are people who are my lesser in every single aspect, and people who are my superior in every aspect.

The absence of god does not mean an adherence to science. One can perfectly argue against science without invoking god, perhaps even more extreme than some religious could even contemplate.


A political belief can't just be a random collection of positions. If a political movement has no internal logic, no foundation of philosophy, it will wither and die.

Let us make the comparison to math. Math is not about giving the correct answer, it is about being able to deduce the correct answer when presented with an equation. If a child understands the basic concept of 1+1, he will know the answer to 1+2. You do not need to teach every possible combination, you need to teach the underlying principle.

Political systems are the same in that they need to be grounded in something more than positions. A communist needs to understand that, when faced with a new problem, he can give a communist answer. He doesn't need to be told every single answer to every single problem, he needs to understand the core, and elaborate from that center.


Atheists share a lot of beliefs, but it can't be used as the foundation for a political belief, it lacks philosophical grounding, and the more you try to fix that problem, the more you realize that the atheist-aspect becomes trivial.

This Atheism+ has no political heart, no core. It is just a mash-up of what most atheists believe.

Humanism gives most atheists their outlook on life, not the lack of a god. The position of man is more important in a world without gods.


This, in all honesty, seems to be hijacking atheism.
sweetbabyjesus
Profile Joined September 2010
Denmark168 Posts
August 28 2012 20:51 GMT
#22
I like the Idea, but think they should change the name. Atheism is the lack of belief in a god. Not all the other things they advocate. I'm NOT saying that I disagree with their points of view, but some day I might, and that day i wouldn't want anyone to think that me being an atheist means that I also have this and this viewpoint. Only that I don't believe in a god.
Crabs
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25557 Posts
August 28 2012 20:54 GMT
#23
I think they are striving to differentiate themselves, name-wise, but view themselves as a subgroup of the atheism movement. Kind of like how Squares are a subset of Rectangles. Atheism+ is supposed to be "Atheism plus some other stuff" or Ethical atheism is supposed to be an expansion beyond the minimal atheist viewpoints. I think the inclusion of the word atheist is in there because even if atheism doesn't inform everyone's philosophical beliefs, it informs this group's beliefs. So rather than hijacking or changing atheism, they want to create a subset of it.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Kukaracha
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
France1954 Posts
August 28 2012 21:21 GMT
#24
I find that the best metaphor for this is a roleplaying one.
If you have the best characteristics in the game (young, educated, wealthy caucasian male living in the western sphere), you have a set of bonuses every time you roll the dice. On the contrary, the more negative traits you have, the bigger the penalties.

I also agree that this movement is ideologistic bullshit.

Also, Louis CK is like the advocate of common sense, and it usually rings a very negative bell in my mind when someone posts it. He's like an anti-philosopher.
"So hey, (insert profanity here) are just (insert negative profanity here). When it happens to me, I never react like that, it's (insert profanity here). It's (insert profanity here) common sense!"
Ugh.
Le long pour l'un pour l'autre est court (le mot-à-mot du mot "amour").
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25557 Posts
August 28 2012 21:27 GMT
#25
In a discussion whenever I hear someone invoke common sense I ignore that part of the argument, or at least try to explain why it doesn't work that way. Saying something is common sense is saying "don't question this" or "this doesn't need to have a reason or explanation", which, besides being intellectually lazy, is an easy way to be wrong. There are lots of things in the world that are counter-intuitive, and especially in debates in which people disagree, common sense is a dangerous/bad thing to use.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
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