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On May 02 2012 12:20 run.at.me wrote:
Cry more you bunch of babies, esports is an industry, sc2 is a game.
You play the game because it is fun, no one forces you to be a part of esports, if you don't like it, then don't be a part of it.
But your lonely, you want to be part of a community, a cyber community with no real interpersonal relationships, and you blame esports for failure to provide this for you?
Guess what, you know what makes esports what it is? Everyone here, the people you hate, and the ones you like. The real 'Esports' is just the result of competitive drive of some individuals who see a sector that has yet been exploited.
You hate people. Surprise! Welcome to reality, it's the same every fucking place you go. Choose wisely where you invest yourself.
There actually used to be something like this, but then this whole concept of esports came in and swallowed it up.
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I agree... a lot of the fun and passion has been lost in the desperate pursuit of "more viewers, more money, more tournaments, more more more".
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Katowice25012 Posts
I'm with Jinro mostly but I do agree that people get too wrapped up in we need this for esports instead of just enjoying the game they play and watch.
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This is ironically dramatic.
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One post by Jinro and everything goes silent.
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On May 02 2012 12:18 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
What a retarded thread lol
It's like whining about professional soccer destroying your ability to kick a ball around with your friends.
Esports evangelicism can be annoying as fuck, I dont disagree, but your post is silly.
agreed.
People should just enjoy the games they play and watch and just ignore the other game rather then blindly hating :D
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I don't really like TL and sc reddit because all the threads are about "esports" instead of SC2. There's always threads about players, tournaments, general BS. Instead of reading about how player x did at dreamhack #491, I'd rather read something about SC2 itself. I'd rather be reading about strategies, SC2 development news, replays, tutorials and not about this "esports" stuff.
I guess my expectations of an sc2 fansite are a lot different than a lot of other people's. I would much rather ladder a bunch of games and come on TL or Reddit and talk about strategies or look at a few interesting pictures, threads, streams, replays that are primarily about SC2 gameplay. To illustrate I have marked up sc2 reddit:
TLDR: Sc2 is a fun game to ladder on. I expect sc2 fan sites to be primarily focused on gameplay, not "esports". "Esports" are not entertaining while SC2 is.
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This is what the FGC is fighting against. Good post.
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5/5 I agree.
Very symptomatic of the Sc2 community (most of it) versus the old BW community.
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On May 02 2012 12:20 run.at.me wrote:
Cry more you bunch of babies, esports is an industry, sc2 is a game.
You play the game because it is fun, no one forces you to be a part of esports, if you don't like it, then don't be a part of it.
But your lonely, you want to be part of a community, a cyber community with no real interpersonal relationships, and you blame esports for failure to provide this for you?
Guess what, you know what makes esports what it is? Everyone here, the people you hate, and the ones you like. The real 'Esports' is just the result of competitive drive of some individuals who see a sector that has yet been exploited.
You hate people. Surprise! Welcome to reality, it's the same every fucking place you go. Choose wisely where you invest yourself.
esports isn't real. ;o
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I agree. Reddit is the worst offender, they've managed to become the most hateful community in the SC2-verse in the name of e-sports.
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On May 02 2012 12:06 javy925 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 11:57 Jerubaal wrote:
The funny thing about esports, and this blog, is that people will support or not support things depending on whether like it, regardless of the conceptualization of 'esports' or lack thereof. Just like this blog will ultimately not affect a damn thing.
I can see why you're a popular blogger, though. You seem to have made a career at getting offended by things. seems like the OP rustled your jimmies a bit
Is this a sexual term? Yes, the way he attacks the low lying fruit is truly awe inspiring.
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So this is where the anit-eSports movement starts.
I do get where you are coming from in this thread and I do feel it in some ways, but for the most part it is kinda nice to tournaments growing. At least we still have Home Story Cup, that is a more relaxed tournament style if that is what you are looking for in a tournament. However if we do lose those tournaments and everything is all super serious it will get stale and repetitive very, very fast.
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United States4991 Posts
On May 02 2012 12:18 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
What a retarded thread lol
It's like whining about professional soccer destroying your ability to kick a ball around with your friends.
Esports evangelicism can be annoying as fuck, I dont disagree, but your post is silly.
I don't really agree with you FA. In BW times the community felt much more close-knit. High level players were significantly less cloistered (more openly talking on TL, not so much "witch hunt"ing, pro players actually coming and hanging out with random peons on TL's bnet channel, etc). I was more involved with administration things (or perhaps I should say involved at all, since I no longer have any sort of administrative role of any sort in SC  ), but I don't think that's the cause of my perception of that.
I think the larger community size and the increased vulnerability of players ("a did b?! Call the sponsors!!!!!") are the main causes of it. When people played for fun/pride and the occasional cash, nobody gave a fuck about that stuff, because no one had sponsors to be called.
Professional soccer doesn't affect my ability to kick the ball around with my friends, but it's a pretty different experience if the players I saw on TV used to be among the friend I used to kick the ball around with, but now they no longer hang out with the non-pros (not really a perfect example, but that's the best I can do with your analogy )
I'd hoped Mondragon would deliver a BW style team (even though Mondragon himself wasn't actually particularly involved on TL) where the team was less sponsor/money-driven when he showed up to lead MyM as both the captain and a player, but unfortunately that sort of faded way due to his real life commitments 
e: note I think the design of SC2 Bnet has a direct effect upon this too, by the way, but I don't think it's fair to purely blame Bnet for it, as the stuff on the website certainly isn't the result of that.
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Once it becomes cool to hate eSports, you guys are going to have to be the first to jump on the "I love Esports" wagon again, before it gets cool... you realize that...
edit: language, accidental
User was warned for this post
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Perhaps the clearest voice I have heard in a long time in these forums.
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On May 02 2012 12:18 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
What a retarded thread lol
It's like whining about professional soccer destroying your ability to kick a ball around with your friends.
Esports evangelicism can be annoying as fuck, I dont disagree, but your post is silly.
I would agree with both of these. A bunch of annoying zealots running around saying "IN THE NAME OF ESPORTS" is really annoying, and frustrating. But I would disagree that the movement to make it mainstream is hurting the casual player. Much of the difference between BW and SCII is simply size of community, not necessarily sponsors etc. While communities, SCreddit being the most notorious, use ESPORTS as an excuse for all sorts of shenanigans. "For esports" should be for the betterment of the community, and the expansion of the community will lead to the expansion of competitive "esports" While the current usage is so convoluted it makes me sick at times, promoting esports should not be something to be frowned upon. Forcing zealotlike ideals onto others in the name of advancement, is.
The sponsor stuff is absolute bullshit. But it's not really for advancement. I think we all know deep down that people just like witchhunts, and going to sponsors directly isn't really intended to help esports, per se.
I'm with Jinro mostly but I do agree that people get too wrapped up in we need this for esports instead of just enjoying the game they play and watch.
This too. People should firstly be community members and people that enjoy esports, and then worry about the actual advancement of "the game" per se.
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well arent you just the hipster nerd at the head of the TL elitist group
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There seem to be alot of people who miss the point of the thread...and are probably the people this thread is kind of aimed at.
I don't play SC2 because it's an esport....I play it because its fun and I agree with a previous poster that I would rather scrap the esports stuff and just have a discussion site which talks about the game itself
However i love SC2 as an esport...I enjoy watching it and have been to several GSLs (my most famous of which is the uniden fighting sign ^^).
And jinro is perfectly right to draw the soccer link....but i think again a point was missed. SC2 shouldn't just be played because its an esport, which seems to be what TL embodies (maybe involuntarily), it should be played for fun and then a proleague and an esport should rise from that. Blizz had the issue of designing sc2 as an esport, where as SC and BW were designed as games which developed an esport (the better way round). Remember football was a fun game played by people before it became a legit sport. there were like 40 or 50+players a team and it was chaos...then people thought 'wow people watch this shit...lets start a league' and it all began there. Not 'wow cricket is a really popular spectator sport...lets make this new version in mind for the fans'
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EPT
